Top Republican: Scrap 'buy American' stimulus clause

[tiznow]

exactly these protectionists act like we can go it alone and say fuck you to the rest of the world

many countries have us by the balls based on the amount of debt they hold

that said a place like china for instance is also dependent on us as they depend on our consumption of their goods....there economy is starting to hit the skids....and they could have some issues with their large poor population creating civil unrest domestically longer term.....

so its not like they completely got us by the balls

 

[barman]

What if Germany or England said buy German or English would we make a big deal out of it?... No we would understand because they want to keep their people working & Its no diffrent here all the Countries are going to be looking to protect themselves it's only natural.

Natural perhaps...if one wishes to think in mid 20th century terms.

However, if we're going to approach the challenge in the reality of the 21st century, pretending we can prosper without active global cooperation is tomfoolery

 

[roadreeler57]

The difference is we owe the UK almost 1/2 trillion dollars, China almost a trillion ect,. How do you think we are going to refinance our debt , if we start fucking our creditors?

We shouldnt have had to borrow the Money in the first place...To keep these creditors from lending our spendthrift politicians any more money lets go ahead & piss them off & let the chips fall where they may.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

You can't buy anything made here anymore anyway...I have a Acer Computer,Haier TV,Grand Gourmet Crock Pot,Hamilton Beach Toaster,Chefmate Microwave,Toastmaster Coffee Pot all made or assembled in China & the Socks & underwear I have on were probably made in Sri Lanka or some damn where so you tell me where I can buy much made here anyway even the newer Craftsman power tools are made in China now.

Exactly, and if all those products were made here in the states, you wouldn't be able to afford all of them, because the cost would be too high. Businesses objective is too make a profit. If your a small corner store just paying your mortgage or Wal-Mart who has stores all over the world and shareholders to earn for, its one in the same. If they can make money and stay afloat by going overseas, then its well worth it for not only them but us as consumers. Because the point of sale will be more affordable here. If you want your way of life to be greatly impacted for the worse then we can make things over here. But if you want shit to be affordable, then it has to come from overseas, because its the only way to keep costs down and profits up.

 

[roadreeler57]

Exactly, and if all those products were made here in the states, you wouldn't be able to afford all of them, because the cost would be too high. Businesses objective is too make a profit. If your a small corner store just paying your mortgage or Wal-Mart who has stores all over the world and shareholders to earn for, its one in the same. If they can make money and stay afloat by going overseas, then its well worth it for not only them but us as consumers. Because the point of sale will be more affordable here. If you want your way of life to be greatly impacted for the worse then we can make things over here. But if you want shit to be affordable, then it has to come from overseas, because its the only way to keep costs down and profits up.

Youre dead wrong...Does Bose Electric,Craftsman Hand tools,Oreck Vacuum Cleaners,Boeing ect ect make a decent profit? ... Bottom line is the jobs keep going overseas because of Corparate greed then there will be no money earned here to buy anybodys shit from anywhere...US workers are the most productive on Earth & productivity has been going steadily up for years now.We need our Manufacturing base back & I don't mean just tanks,bombs & guns....So the price of a toaster goes up $2 so what?

 

[tiznow]

these countries that we export jobs to consume american goods as well which helps us

what you seem to not realize RR is that other economies growing is good for our economies health....we are one big interconnected global economy now.....but yet at the same time we are in a nice spot since the whole world in the end depends on how WE do.....there were alot of economists thinking that the chinese were gonna disconnect and be able to withstand the US gloom...they are proving to be dead wrong as i figured they would be......

the chinese are buying ipods, and PCs, buying microwaves, and eating at mcdonalds and shit.....

its not a one way street

although i agree for a while there it was unsustainable too heavy to the import vs. export market as far as the chinese situation is concerned

but that got outta wack due to the fed, banks, easy credit, and dumb J6Ps spending beyond their means

our trade deficit is shrinking now as the gloom is playing out

US still exports a ton of shit the world needs regardless of what is going on the world

bottom line in the grand scheme of things the US manufacturing days are numbered whether you like it or not....

that's a thing of the past

our economy is increasingly more dependent on brain cells and ideas rather than physical labors.....

either you are gonna have to move overseas and work for less with a lower standard of living

or get an education and find a different trade...

the world isn't gonna wait around for anybody

 

[fletchisrhsm]

Youre dead wrong...Does Bose Electric,Craftsman Hand tools,Oreck Vacuum Cleaners,Boeing ect ect make a decent profit? ... Bottom line is the jobs keep going overseas because of Corparate greed then there will be no money earned here to buy anybodys shit from anywhere...US workers are the most productive on Earth & productivity has been going steadily up for years now.We need our Manufacturing base back & I don't mean just tanks,bombs & guns....So the price of a toaster goes up $2 so what?

How do you know the US workers are the most productive? Cite this "stat" for me, otherwise we will have to throw that on the scrapheap for bullshit. The bottom line is greed, no question, but its also the same greed that fuels the fire of innovation. And for the record... do you realize the income gap from the average citizen in China to your average here? Its like 46K per household here while its like 2.5K in China. So that two dollar toaster raise would have to be a little more to compensate or offset this. Its really simple Road. You can be ignorant and say i want it all or you can be smart and say i want the jobs here, so we all can pay more or leave it like it is and keep cheap goods cheap. To me its a wash and if you REALLY think about it, it truly is.

 

[roadreeler57]

these countries that we export jobs to consume american goods as well which helps us

the chinese are buying ipods, and PCs, and eating at mcdonalds and shit.....

its not a one way street

although i agree for a while there it was unsustainable too heavy to the import vs. export market as far as the chinese situation is concerned

but that got outta wack due to the fed, banks, easy credit, and dumb J6Ps spending beyond their means

our trade deficit is shrinking now as the gloom is playing out

US still exports a ton of shit the world needs regardless of what is going on the world

Another thing they talk about this "Global Economy" BS It's always been a "Global Economy" & they talk about it like its something new & I cant figure that out...Nations have always traded with each other....US Imports a lot more than they export...Overseas Containers they are building houses out of them for hurricane proof houses in Fla & other hurricane prone areas because they are cheap because it it too expensive to ship them back empty.

 

[tiznow]

the big problem i forsee long term and tiz turns a bit more protectionist is ownership of our american companies

like the budweiser sale to inbev....granted in that instance i think shareholders made out like a bandit and the euro's overpaid for it.....so not really a good example IMO.....

that said longer term as the gloom proceeds

alot of US corporations are gonna get dirt cheap and alot of the rest of the world now owns our debt and dollars and will likely want to buy up our companies and such....

that tiz is a bit more sticky on and protectionist

cause once/if they start owning a large chunk of american corporations

that's when we will become their bitch

 

[tiznow]

How do you know the US workers are the most productive? Cite this "stat" for me, otherwise we will have to throw that on the scrapheap for bullshit. The bottom line is greed, no question, but its also the same greed that fuels the fire of innovation. And for the record... do you realize the income gap from the average citizen in China to your average here? Its like 46K per household here while its like 2.5K in China. So that two dollar toaster raise would have to be a little more to compensate or offset this. Its really simple Road. You can be ignorant and say i want it all or you can be smart and say i want the jobs here, so we all can pay more or leave it like it is and keep cheap goods cheap. To me its a wash and if you REALLY think about it, it truly is.

chinese goods are very very low quality

part of the blame needs to be placed on the american consumer for being a sheep and overpaying for crappy quality products...i mean our corporations and shareholders liked it near term i suppose......

but alot of that is taking care of itself as americans are starting to learn a lesson in debt and fiscal responsibility and realize they don't need to consume all this shit they don't need from china

 

[roadreeler57]

the big problem i forsee long term and tiz turns a bit more protectionist is ownership of our american companies

like the budweiser sale to inbev....granted in that instance i think shareholders made out like a bandit and the euro's overpaid for it.....so not really a good example IMO.....

that said longer term as the gloom proceeds

alot of US corporations are gonna get dirt cheap and alot of the rest of the world now owns our debt and dollars and will likely want to buy up our companies and such....

that tiz is a bit more sticky on and protectionist

cause once/if they start owning a large chunk of american corporations

that's when we will become their bitch

I dont know maybe I live too much in the past but guys not that much older than me say in the 60s they could walk into Ford & walk out with a job the same day....Im looking for a job driving a truck 300 mile radius at about $14 hr or 37 cents a mile or percentage & I have a clean record & 26 yrs experience & Im having a rough time & that SUCKS but I know Im not the only one.I think its going to be at least about a year & then things should pick up again hopefully.In the meantime I think we have to protect ourselves by stopping unchecked Immigration (of course I had to mention that) & quit shipping decent jobs overseas just for the damn stockholders & CEOs inflated salarys & bonuses....Importing workers in & shipping jobs out thats a bad combination.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

I dont know maybe I live too much in the past but guys not that much older than me say in the 60s they could walk into Ford & walk out with a job the same day....Im looking for a job driving a truck 300 mile radius at about $14 hr or 37 cents a mile or percentage & I have a clean record & 26 yrs experience & Im having a rough time & that SUCKS but I know Im not the only one.I think its going to be at least about a year & then things should pick up again hopefully.In the meantime I think we have to protect ourselves by stopping unchecked Immigration (of course I had to mention that) & quit shipping decent jobs overseas just for the damn stockholders & CEOs inflated salarys & bonuses....Importing workers in & shipping jobs out thats a bad combination.

What you are saying is capitalism doesnt work. Nobody said it was perfect but capitalism is the best system we have or could have as far sustainability. I agree with immigration. I think your spot on with your rants there, no question. But those "damn stockholders" are what gets these businesses to grow. I would also agree that big business must check itself as alot at the top have grown vastly disproportionately to the working class stiff and to me that is bad karma and bad business. bottom line thou is what you are saying it to invest in the worker and less into the company and that is socialism. If that is what you after, then just say so.

 

[roadreeler57]

What you are saying is capitalism doesnt work. Nobody said it was perfect but capitalism is the best system we have or could have as far sustainability. I agree with immigration. I think your spot on with your rants there, no question. But those "damn stockholders" are what gets these businesses to grow. I would also agree that big business must check itself as alot at the top have grown vastly disproportionately to the working class stiff and to me that is bad karma and bad business. bottom line thou is what you are saying it to invest in the worker and less into the company and that is socialism. If that is what you after, then just say so.

Socialism no,,,Is that what Im saying by all this or what?..If I sound like it I dont mean to.

 

[roadreeler57]

What I meant by "Damn Stockhlders" was it seems like they dictate over these Companies & thats not right.

 

[tiznow]

if they own enough shares to have a say they should

they own part of the company

that's like saying a small business owner shouldn't have a say in how their business is run

 

[fletchisrhsm]

Socialism no,,,Is that what Im saying by all this or what?..If I sound like it I dont mean to.

Maybe your a socialist. Look it up, you must be surprised by what it means and if your into it, its cool, but its not going to work. Its a paper champion if you will.

However, i think sometime in the distant future it will be the only way to go.

 

[barman]

US workers are the most productive on Earth & productivity has been going steadily up for years now.

Are you sure and are you sure?

 

[barman]

....or get an education and find a different trade...

the world isn't gonna wait around for anybody

Get an education?

I graduated school in 1977 with all the education I would ever need

:drink::drink:

 

[barman]

How do you know the US workers are the most productive? Cite this "stat" for me, otherwise we will have to throw that on the scrapheap for bullshit.....

Better duck so we don't get hit by the flying scrap...

 

[barman]

I would think that if all one is qualified for is a $14 per hour job then you can either "wait a year until it gets better" or maybe it might be time to learn some new skills and/or expand your education so you could be qualified for a wider range of options.

If you graduated school in 1975 and reasonably plan to work until you're 75, then you're barely halfway through your working career. Certainly plenty of time to become smarter and more diverse.

Or you could stomp your foot, insist you're as smart as you need to be and then bitch when the better paying jobs go to those younger and/or smarter.