Time To Tell The Truth About Israel …Without Fear Of The Mind Police

[mamatried]

Zionists are the most dangerous people in the world. they have the exact same goal of Islamic terrorists, but they are very subtle and more cunning then the other terrorists. How else could a Jewish state being created on land where the Arabs outnumbered the Jews? In less then 20 years they'll again be more Arabs in Israel or Palestine whatever you want to call it. How else can they keep it Jewish state unless they either continue their Apartheid or worse ethnic cleansing. If Jordan/Egypt didn't close their borders they would already drive those Palestinians out.

They are more dangerous because

1) The longer they keep this occupation the more hate Jews will receive around the world. Eventually shit will blow back. How long you think Iran and other muslim countries can be held off from getting nukes. Eventually this 3rd world countries will catch up. You can't keep them down forever. For Israelis terrorist actions more anti-semanist justified or not.

2) Their occupation is giving more supports to terrorists around the muslim world and preventing any sorta of democratic process. If this issue was resolved or eased, the less support terrorist groups like Hamas would receive. It's easy to sign up recruits when you see babies being carried on stretchers. At this rate within 10 years all these middle eastern countries will be run by terrorist organizations like Hamas, which can't be good for the world.

3) Honestly its 21st century. It's time this religion state crap be cut out. Why can't Israel/Palestine be western democracy? 1 person/1vote? World is becoming so interdependent boarders don't matter anymore.

And for those you Israeli supports I have simple question for you. If you don't believe Israel is terrorist state and is just a fun loving democratic state, what is with the settlements? WHY ON EARTH WOULD A PEACEFUL COUNTRY BUILD ON OCCUPIED LAND AND HAVE 100 checkpoints to make live miserable for the occupied people.

LOFL. How many Muslim states are there compared with one tiny Jewish state (which, btw, allows other religions to live and worship freely, unlike most of the Muslim states)? Were 6 million of your people wiped out less than half a century ago and persecuted for the past 2000 years? Maybe if you knew something about the way Jews were treated in most Arab countries, and about the Arab massacres in the area when they all lived together you'd understand their need for their own independent state. It's almost comical when people like you call for THEM to be the ones to make the first move in abandoning their country - never mind Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan, etc. etc.

As for the settlements, the Israelis have every right to build them - these lands were won in defensive wars. Again, a different standard is applied to them vs. any other country in the world, But I agree, as do most Israelis, that they should stop building them and should eventually turn them over to Arab control when a Palestinian state is established. (Although I still don't understand why Jews shouldn't be allowed to remain there, just as Arabs are allowed to live in Israel.) They've already demonstrated, in Gaza, the West Bank, and the Sinai, that they're more than willing to give up land for peace and remove all settlements. It's the other side that refuses to compromise.

 

[alense]

I can't understand why anyone would say the leadership of Israel is against peace, or enjoys going to war knowing innocent people will be killed on the other side.

Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon. Just a quick example of why some parts of the Israeli leadership are against peace. You cant elect people who have been terrorists in the past and expect them to turn into peace lovers. At the end of the day these guys acheived their objectives using violence so why is it so surprising that they would continue in the same manner.

 

[mamatried]

Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon. Just a quick example of why some parts of the Israeli leadership are against peace. You cant elect people who have been terrorists in the past and expect them to turn into peace lovers. At the end of the day these guys acheived their objectives using violence so why is it so surprising that they would continue in the same manner.

Are you kidding? You can't be for real. Begin negotiated the most far reaching and comprehensive peace agreement there's ever been in the region, and Sharon withdrew from Gaza, dismantled settlements there and on the West Bank, and was the first Israeli prime minister to recognize the concept of a Palestinian state.

 

[alense]

Are you kidding? You can't be for real. Begin negotiated the most far reaching and comprehensive peace agreement there's ever been in the region, and Sharon withdrew from Gaza, dismantled settlements there and on the West Bank, and was the first Israeli prime minister to recognize the concept of a Palestinian state.

Yes Begin negotiated a peace agreement with Egypt but it didnt stop him from creating settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, which further deepened the tension with Palestine.

I guess for some its easy to forget events like the blowing up of the King David hotel, the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, the Qibya massacre and Sabra and Shatila massacre.

No peace will ever be reached with these sorts of people (from both sides).

 

[duckhunter]

Yes Begin negotiated a peace agreement with Egypt but it didnt stop him from creating settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, which further deepened the tension with Palestine.

I guess for some its easy to forget events like the blowing up of the King David hotel, the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, the Qibya massacre and Sabra and Shatila massacre.

No peace will ever be reached with these sorts of people (from both sides).

excellent post. leades on both sides have to change their ways if peace is ever to be achieved.

 

[ScottL]

It's funny how you guys say leaders on both sides need to change their ways, and ignore the current situation where Israel is responding to being fired upon by a terrorist entity who brutally rules the Pali people. And bring up disputed past events like Sabra and Shatilia [A Christian massacre of Arabs] and the bombing of the King David. As if that morally equates the two sides in what is happening TODAY! Palestinians need to have there Altalena Moment.

http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac20.htm

 

[ScottL]

The Bombing of the King David Hotel

The King David Hotel was the site of the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. The Irgun chose it as a target after British troops invaded the Jewish Agency June 29, 1946, and confiscated large quantities of documents. At about the same time, more than 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. The information about Jewish Agency operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries, was taken to the King David Hotel.

A week later, news of a massacre of 40 Jews in a pogrom in Poland reminded the Jews of Palestine how Britain's restrictive immigration policy had condemned thousands to death. Irgun leader Menachem Begin stressed his desire to avoid civilian casualties and said three telephone calls were placed, one to the hotel, another to the French Consulate, and a third to the Palestine Post, warning that explosives in the King David Hotel would soon be detonated.

On July 22, 1946, the calls were made. The call into the hotel was apparently received and ignored. Begin quotes one British official who supposedly refused to evacuate the building, saying: "We don't take orders from the Jews."1 As a result, when the bombs exploded, the casualty toll was high: a total of 91 killed and 45 injured. Among the casualties were 15 Jews. Few people in the hotel proper were injured by the blast.2

In contrast to Arab attacks against Jews, which were widely hailed as heroic actions, the Jewish National Council denounced the bombing of the King David.3

For decades the British denied they had been warned. In 1979, however, a member of the British Parliament introduced evidence that the Irgun had indeed issued the warning. He offered the testimony of a British officer who heard other officers in the King David Hotel bar joking about a Zionist threat to the headquarters. The officer who overheard the conversation immediately left the hotel and survived.4

 

[mamatried]

Yes Begin negotiated a peace agreement with Egypt but it didnt stop him from creating settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, which further deepened the tension with Palestine.

I guess for some its easy to forget events like the blowing up of the King David hotel, the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, the Qibya massacre and Sabra and Shatila massacre.

No peace will ever be reached with these sorts of people (from both sides).

Without delving into the specifics and nuances of each of the incidents you cite (something I'll be glad to do if you'd like, since as I said earlier nothing is completely black and white), your logic is not only flawed, it is circular. You are saying that no one on either side can make peace because they have a history of making war. But as long as the fighting continues, both sides will continue to make war, so no one on either side will ever be suitable to make peace.

While there is no doubt that some Israeli leaders have made unfortunate and in some cases indefensible decisions in the past, it is also evident that they are now more than willing to take the necessary steps for peace. They have dismantled settlements, given back territory, agreed in principle to a Palestinian state, and provided financial and infrastructure support to the Abbas government in the West Bank. There has been no reciprocal concession on the part of Hezbollah and Hamas, who continue to terrorize and kill as many Israelis as they can.

And those are the FACTS.

 

[mamatried]

It's funny how you guys say leaders on both sides need to change their ways, and ignore the current situation where Israel is responding to being fired upon by a terrorist entity who brutally rules the Pali people. And bring up disputed past events like Sabra and Shatilia [A Christian massacre of Arabs] and the bombing of the King David. As if that morally equates the two sides in what is happening TODAY! Palestinians need to have there Altalena Moment.

http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac20.htm

QFT, my friend. QFT.

 

[Dilrod]

UN accuses Israel of herding 110 Palestinians into safe house - then shelling it

Israel faces UN war crimes probe after dozens of civilians were moved to safe house - then bombed in airstrike 24 hours later

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...e-house--bombed-airstrike-24-hours-later.html

 

[duckhunter]

its a very sad state of affairs, what is going on now in gaza.

 

[mamatried]

The Israelis denied it, of course, but why wait for the investigation and the facts before blaming them? I mean, they massacred all of those Palestinians at Ramallah, didn't they?

Oh, scratch that. There was no Ramallah massacre after all.

 

[mamatried]

The Israelis denied it, of course, but why wait for the investigation and the facts before blaming them? I mean, they massacred all of those Palestinians at Ramallah, didn't they?

Oh, scratch that. There was no Ramallah massacre after all.

 

[Dilrod]

It could very well end up being a lie, although the article goes on to say

"As of Thursday, 257 children were among the approximately 760 reported dead in Gaza. There were another 1,080 children among the 3,100 injured in the conflict, according to statistics from Gaza's health ministry.

The UN's top humanitarian official, John Holmes, described the numbers as 'credible' and deeply disturbing. UN officials say about half of the casualties were civilians."

which by itself is a travesty. How many Israelis have died from rocket attacks? What's the documented number, something like 20 in 8 years?

 

[Romanowski]

the UN is pro arab

 

[Dilrod]

"terrorist entity who brutally rules the Pali people"

are you talking about Hamas, who were democraticly elected?

 

[duckhunter]

the UN is pro arab

facts and numbers are facts and numbers. they dont lie. 257 dead children is a credible number. whether you are pro israel or pro arab, its still 257 dead chidren, among other civilians.

 

[alense]

I never recall saying that what happened in the past morally equates to whats happening today. I only mentioned those events to highlight the sort of mentality of some Israeli leaders and how peace will not arrive while them and their ilk are around. Just because they warned the hotel before the bomb exploded doesnt absolve them from what happened.

Mamatried, I can understand why you think my logic is flawed, and I hope your are right. However, looking at the progression of peace (or lack of) in the area over recent decades it is a conclusion that I have reached.

 

[tiznow]

looks like WW3 is progressing nicely in unison with the next great depression

 

[Dilrod]

Is Israel trying to provoke a greater confrontation?