Things that make you say huh?

[SheriffJoe]

Guess so.

Honestly, Joe, you and I are never going to pull for the same candidates. In a similar sense, Vit and I are never going to pull for the same candidates. In both cases, it's for the best.

You think so huh?

Take a look at education, immigration, the national debt, healthcare, culture, foreign policy, Washington bureaucracy in general - you name it, it's broken. All because RINOs can't say 'No!' to progressives...for decades now.

Today's problems are yesterday's government solutions. People like Paul Ryan rubber-stamping Hussein's unconstitutional agenda betraying their oaths of office under the guise of 'bipartisanship', are the problem, not the solution going forward.

 

[PatsFan1283]

You think so huh?

Take a look at education, immigration, the national debt, healthcare, culture, foreign policy, Washington bureaucracy in general - you name it, it's broken. All because RINOs can't say 'No!' to progressives...for decades now.

Today's problems are yesterday's government solutions. People like Paul Ryan rubber-stamping Hussein's agenda breaking their oaths of office, are the problem, not the solution going forward.

I just think that is how it is going to be until there is a boomerang effect and it goes the other way towards smaller government.

The Dems are cleaning up with the minorities now that they no longer need the white working class as much as they used to. So now those people are Republicans. And guess what? They like social security, medicare, medicaid, replacing Obamacare with "something bigger and better", their jobs to be protected by isolationist trade policies, etc. They aren't looking for reform that subjects them to market forces.

Fiscal conservatism and free markets basically dead now. You won't hear much about it over the next 3 days if tonight is any indication.

Tough to sell something when there isn't a market for it.

 

[graderpayne3]

its a friendly country ever had. open to anyone no discremination.

 

[graderpayne3]

its a friendly country ever had. open to anyone no discremination.

 

[SheriffJoe]

I just think that is how it is going to be until there is a boomerang effect and it goes the other way towards smaller government.

The Dems are cleaning up with the minorities now that they no longer need the white working class as much as they used to. So now those people are Republicans. And guess what? They like social security, medicare, medicaid, replacing Obamacare with "something bigger and better", their jobs to be protected by isolationist trade policies, etc. They aren't looking for reform that subjects them to market forces.

Fiscal conservatism and free markets basically dead now. You won't hear much about it over the next 3 days if tonight is any indication.

Tough to sell something when there isn't a market for it.

In a nation of children, Santa Claus wins, but only for a limited period of time. The current path is unsustainable.

At the very minimum, Republican leadership shouldn't be making things even worse.

 

[PatsFan1283]

In a nation of children, Santa Claus wins, but only for a limited period of time. The current path is unsustainable.

At the very minimum, Republican leadership shouldn't be making things even worse.

How do you define limited period of time? It can certainly go on awhile. Those 6 factors you allude to (excluding "culture" since that is more abstract) certainly didn't begin yesterday.

Maybe neo-liberalism and democracy just aren't compatible over the long-term? I'm not quite that cynical but it warrants discussion probably.

As far as Ryan specifically, he came with a budget that was the beginning of significant austerity and it was rejected by even his own party. You tell the truth, they get someone new. He is just playing the game now.

 

[MantisToboggan]

You think so huh?

Take a look at education, immigration, the national debt, healthcare, culture, foreign policy, Washington bureaucracy in general - you name it, it's broken. All because RINOs can't say 'No!' to progressives...for decades now.

Today's problems are yesterday's government solutions. People like Paul Ryan rubber-stamping Hussein's unconstitutional agenda betraying their oaths of office under the guise of 'bipartisanship', are the problem, not the solution going forward.

You know what is amazing to me, Joe? Ryan is more conservative than Trump, yet you can't stand Ryan and you're happy to bow down at the altar of Trump. Pretty wild.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Joe has been plenty critical of Trump though, all through the primaries he said wanted Cruz to crush him.

If he favors Trump over Ryan it likely has to do with national security (syrian refugees specifically) and immigration issues rather than fiscal and economic policy.

 

[MantisToboggan]

Wouldn't you consider supporting Trump's protectionist trade policies part of fiscal and economic policy?

 

[PatsFan1283]

Yeah, you would have to ask him. That is a part of it but I think the reasons I mentioned are the main reasons he would like someone like Trump but dislike someone like Ryan.

I just know he doesn't like the history of NAFTA or the prospect of TPP, not necessarily if he agrees with Trump or thinks his core message of "bringing the jobs back!" has any real value.

I don't think you can say he is just in the tank for Trump though, he has ripped him when he's felt it was appropriate.

 

[MantisToboggan]

Fair enough. Honestly, I haven't seen Joe rip Trump since he got the nomination. I may be wrong (wouldn't be the first or last time). What bothers me is to see these conservatives line up behind Trump, eager to ignore all of his warts, while nitpicking the hell out of guys like Ryan. I understand the frustration with Ryan to some degree, but I still think he's one of the few bright spots in the Republican party.

 

[Dave007inVegas]

You know what is amazing to me, Joe? Ryan is more conservative than Trump, yet you can't stand Ryan and you're happy to bow down at the altar of Trump. Pretty wild.

So by your logic Ryan should be nominated instead of Trump? And what about Cruz, you can’t find someone more conservative. How about Bush, Rubio and Kasich, all conservatives.


Trump beat them all handily because the Republican base is tired of the establishment that has failed them for the last 8 years. They’re tired of capitulation to the progressive movement. They’re not interested in career politicians who’s only goal is get reelected. They want a difference maker.

 

[MantisToboggan]

So by your logic Ryan should be nominated instead of Trump? And what about Cruz, you can’t find someone more conservative. How about Bush, Rubio and Kasich, all conservatives.


Trump beat them all handily because the Republican base is tired of the establishment that has failed them for the last 8 years. They’re tired of capitulation to the progressive movement. They’re not interested in career politicians who’s only goal is get reelected. They want a difference maker.

Not at all. What the hell are you talking about?

Even if that was my logic, your logic of rather than "career politicians whose (*not who's) only goal is to get re-elected", we should go with a lifelong progressive who has been a lukewarm "conservative" for about 5 minutes is better. Okay, Dave.

 

[SheriffJoe]

How do you define limited period of time? It can certainly go on awhile. Those 6 factors you allude to (excluding "culture" since that is more abstract) certainly didn't begin yesterday.

Maybe neo-liberalism and democracy just aren't compatible over the long-term? I'm not quite that cynical but it warrants discussion probably.

As far as Ryan specifically, he came with a budget that was the beginning of significant austerity and it was rejected by even his own party. You tell the truth, they get someone new. He is just playing the game now.

How do I define a limited period of time? I don't think an increasingly vulnerable Fed can handle another crisis like 2008. Next time the world will have to come to its rescue and that will mean surrendering what's left of our sovereignty, assuming the global powers that be don't abolish the Constitution altogether.

I'm not opposed to free trade in principle but these massive trade deals are like the stimulus, not as advertised.

The American people no longer control the destiny of their republic and that is a very, very bad thing. Nobody really knows how Donald Trump will govern (Pence as his VP is certainly encouraging) but I would have to think this is the last opportunity to chart a different course away from global progressivism.

 

[PatsFan1283]

How do I define a limited period of time? I don't think an increasingly vulnerable Fed can handle another crisis like 2008. Next time the world will have to come to its rescue and that will mean surrendering what's left of our sovereignty, assuming the global powers that be don't abolish the Constitution altogether.

I'm not opposed to free trade in principle but these massive trade deals are like the stimulus, not as advertised.

The American people no longer control the destiny of their republic and that is a very, very bad thing. Nobody really knows how Donald Trump will govern (Pence as his VP is certainly encouraging) but I would have to think this is the last opportunity to chart a different course away from global progressivism.

Oh so you mean from this point right now and into the future. I was moreso talking how it has really spanned since the New Deal in a lot of ways. Which would already be far more than a limited period of time.

I'm not going to agree about globalization being a net-negative though. I think if harnessed properly it is the greatest economic opportunity of our time. We just need to separate that from EU-style governing. Easier said than done I suppose.

 

[Dave007inVegas]

Not at all. What the hell are you talking about?

Even if that was my logic, your logic of rather than "career politicians whose (*not who's) only goal is to get re-elected", we should go with a lifelong progressive who has been a lukewarm "conservative" for about 5 minutes is better. Okay, Dave.

Don’t ever think that we’re remotely close to being on the same page. You’re status quo, I’m not. You play both sides, I don’t. You have no discernable compass. When faced with reality you turn your back.


I don’t care if Trump was a life long communist who turned republican 10 minutes ago. The choice is clear, it’s either Clinton or Trump, those are the only 2 possibilities.


I suggest you close your eyes and dream that a white knight will ride into the White House and save the world as you know it and when you wake up maybe there will be cookies and milk on your night stand.

 

[MantisToboggan]

Don’t ever think that we’re remotely close to being on the same page. You’re status quo, I’m not. You play both sides, I don’t. You have no discernable compass. When faced with reality you turn your back.


I don’t care if Trump was a life long communist who turned republican 10 minutes ago. The choice is clear, it’s either Clinton or Trump, those are the only 2 possibilities.


I suggest you close your eyes and dream that a white knight will ride into the White House and save the world as you know it and when you wake up maybe there will be cookies and milk on your night stand.

Play both sides? Are you nuts? My opinions, and even me on a personal level, are pretty much universally disliked down here. If I didn't have a "compass", I'd go wet noodle and vote for one of these two shitbags because it's the easy thing to do. It's as if you live in this world where you have to choose R or D. Why can't I dislike both? Also, I'm status quo? What are you talking about? I'm a realist but I'm not status quo. There's a ton of shit I'd love to see changed. I'd like to see us go with more of a free market/free society. Unfortunately, that leaves me without a candidate.

And don't worry, Dave, I'd never think we are on the same page.

 

[Dave007inVegas]

Play both sides? Are you nuts? My opinions, and even me on a personal level, are pretty much universally disliked down here. If I didn't have a "compass", I'd go wet noodle and vote for one of these two shitbags because it's the easy thing to do. It's as if you live in this world where you have to choose R or D. Why can't I dislike both? Also, I'm status quo? What are you talking about? I'm a realist but I'm not status quo. There's a ton of shit I'd love to see changed. I'd like to see us go with more of a free market/free society. Unfortunately, that leaves me without a candidate.

And don't worry, Dave, I'd never think we are on the same page.

Well at least you accomplished something.

 

[Dave007inVegas]

Debbie does MSNBC.


Monday on MSNBC’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports,” Democratic National Committee chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) said presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton was “the most admired and respected woman in the entire world.”

 

[MantisToboggan]

Well at least you accomplished something.

I'll take this weak response as an admission that your original post was full of shit. Thanks for playing.