It no longer amazes me the lengths these terrorists and their cheerleaders will go to to justify their actions, from linguistic gymnastics that defy all logic like in the sermon of the delusional above, to staged videos where children die and go to school the next day, to claiming US soldiers bombed a hospital or mosque when one of the munitions they stored in its basement accidentally exploded. Make no mistake. They fight their jihad in the press as much as they do on the battlefield. I think I posted at least 6-7 years ago in here that we cannot achieve full victory in the WOT unless there is a civil war in Islam. How many Muslims must be killed by this evil terrorist strain before the sane rise up? Now there's an oxymoron for ya, 'civil war'. 1.6 billion Muslims in the world now. Apparently plenty of stones available too. Even in Norway. Sick sick sick.
So we're at that 'militant vs moderate' crossroads again, and what has changed since I originally posted this in 2003?
[Finding Moderate Muslims:] Do you believe in modernity?
by Daniel Pipes November 26, 2003
If militant Islam is the problem and moderate Islam is the solution, as I often argue, how does one differentiate between these two forms of Islam?
It's a tough question, especially as concerns Muslims who live in Western countries. To understand just how tough it is, consider the case of Abdurahman Alamoudi, a prominent American figure associated with 16 Muslim organizations.
FBI spokesman Bill Carter described one of those, the American Muslim Council, as "the most mainstream Muslim group in the United States." The Defense Department entrusted two of them (the Islamic Society of North America and the American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans Council) to vet Islamic chaplains for the armed forces. The State Department thought so highly of Alamoudi, it six times hired him and sent him on all-expenses-paid trips to majority-Muslim countries to carry what it called "a message of religious tolerance." Alamoudi's admirers have publicly hailed him as a "moderate," a "liberal Muslim," and someone known "for his charitable support of battered women and a free health clinic."
But this image of moderation collapsed recently when an Alamoudi-endorsed chaplain was arrested and charged with mishandling classified material; when Alamoudi himself was arrested on charges of illegal commerce with Libya; and when Alamoudi's Palm Pilot was found to contain contact information on seven men designated by the United States government as global terrorists.
Distinguishing between real and phony moderation, obviously, is not a job for amateurs like US government officials.
The best way to discern moderation is by delving into the record - public and private, Internet and print, domestic and foreign - of an individual or institution. Such research is most productive with intellectuals, activists and imams, all of whom have a paper trail. With others, who lack a public record, it is necessary to ask questions. These need to be specific, as vague inquiries ("Is Islam a religion of peace?" "Do you condemn terrorism?") have little value, depending as they do on definitions (of peace, terrorism).
Useful questions might include:
No single reply establishes a militant Islamic disposition (plenty of non-Muslim Europeans believe the Bush administration itself carried out the 9/11 attacks); and pretence is always a possibility, but these questions offer a good start to the vexing issue of separating enemy from friend.
__________
Dec. 27, 2004 update: I have collected my writings on the topic of reformist Muslims at "Bibliography – My Writings on Moderate Islam."
Oct. 5, 2005 update: For what others have come up with to determine who is an Islamist and who is not, see "Finding Moderate Muslims - More Questions."
June 3, 2006 update: For comments on the above list of questions, see John Furedy's "Organizational vs. individual application of Pipes's list."
Sep. 6, 2004 update: A semi-comical American Muslim "leader" replied to this article and I reply to him at "Hamza Yusuf Fails My 'Test'."
Apr. 28, 2007 update: For a sarcastic application of these question to Christians, see "Daniel Pipes on How to Expose Militant Christianity."
__________
Related Topics: Islam, Moderate Muslims
[Finding Moderate Muslims:] Do you believe in modernity?
by Daniel Pipes November 26, 2003
If militant Islam is the problem and moderate Islam is the solution, as I often argue, how does one differentiate between these two forms of Islam?
It's a tough question, especially as concerns Muslims who live in Western countries. To understand just how tough it is, consider the case of Abdurahman Alamoudi, a prominent American figure associated with 16 Muslim organizations.
FBI spokesman Bill Carter described one of those, the American Muslim Council, as "the most mainstream Muslim group in the United States." The Defense Department entrusted two of them (the Islamic Society of North America and the American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans Council) to vet Islamic chaplains for the armed forces. The State Department thought so highly of Alamoudi, it six times hired him and sent him on all-expenses-paid trips to majority-Muslim countries to carry what it called "a message of religious tolerance." Alamoudi's admirers have publicly hailed him as a "moderate," a "liberal Muslim," and someone known "for his charitable support of battered women and a free health clinic."
But this image of moderation collapsed recently when an Alamoudi-endorsed chaplain was arrested and charged with mishandling classified material; when Alamoudi himself was arrested on charges of illegal commerce with Libya; and when Alamoudi's Palm Pilot was found to contain contact information on seven men designated by the United States government as global terrorists.
Distinguishing between real and phony moderation, obviously, is not a job for amateurs like US government officials.
The best way to discern moderation is by delving into the record - public and private, Internet and print, domestic and foreign - of an individual or institution. Such research is most productive with intellectuals, activists and imams, all of whom have a paper trail. With others, who lack a public record, it is necessary to ask questions. These need to be specific, as vague inquiries ("Is Islam a religion of peace?" "Do you condemn terrorism?") have little value, depending as they do on definitions (of peace, terrorism).
Useful questions might include:
- Violence: Do you condone or condemn the Palestinians, Chechens, and Kashmiris who give up their lives to kill enemy civilians? Will you condemn by name as terrorist groups such organizations as Abu Sayyaf, Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, Groupe Islamique Armée, Hamas, Harakat ul-Mujahidin, Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, and al-Qaida?
- Modernity: Should Muslim women have equal rights with men (for example, in inheritance shares or court testimony)? Is jihad, meaning a form of warfare, acceptable in today's world? Do you accept the validity of other religions? Do Muslims have anything to learn from the West?
- Secularism: Should non-Muslims enjoy completely equal civil rights with Muslims? May Muslims convert to other religions? May Muslim women marry non-Muslim men? Do you accept the laws of a majority non-Muslim government and unreservedly pledge allegiance to that government? Should the state impose religious observance, such as banning food service during Ramadan? When Islamic customs conflict with secular laws (e.g., covering the face for drivers' license pictures), which should give way?
- Islamic pluralism: Are Sufis and Shi'ites fully legitimate Muslims? Do you see Muslims who disagree with you as having fallen into unbelief? Is takfir (condemning fellow Muslims with whom one has disagreements as unbelievers) an acceptable practice?
- Self-criticism: Do you accept the legitimacy of scholarly inquiry into the origins of Islam? Who was responsible for the 9/11 suicide hijackings?
- Defense against militant Islam: Do you accept enhanced security measures to fight militant Islam, even if this means extra scrutiny of yourself (for example, at airline security)? Do you agree that institutions accused of funding terrorism should be shut down, or do you see this a symptom of bias?
- Goals in the West: Do you accept that Western countries are majority-Christian and secular or do you seek to transform them into majority-Muslim countries ruled by Islamic law?
No single reply establishes a militant Islamic disposition (plenty of non-Muslim Europeans believe the Bush administration itself carried out the 9/11 attacks); and pretence is always a possibility, but these questions offer a good start to the vexing issue of separating enemy from friend.
__________
Dec. 27, 2004 update: I have collected my writings on the topic of reformist Muslims at "Bibliography – My Writings on Moderate Islam."
Oct. 5, 2005 update: For what others have come up with to determine who is an Islamist and who is not, see "Finding Moderate Muslims - More Questions."
June 3, 2006 update: For comments on the above list of questions, see John Furedy's "Organizational vs. individual application of Pipes's list."
Sep. 6, 2004 update: A semi-comical American Muslim "leader" replied to this article and I reply to him at "Hamza Yusuf Fails My 'Test'."
Apr. 28, 2007 update: For a sarcastic application of these question to Christians, see "Daniel Pipes on How to Expose Militant Christianity."
__________
Related Topics: Islam, Moderate Muslims
According to the sewer rat Guesser you are a :
Nope, YOU are a racist. Scott Is not. But leave it to a lying Peice of Vermin like yourself to try and put those ugly words in my mouth, about a class guy like him. Are you striving to become a Full Time liar like Ace? I think there's something in the Bible and 10 Commandments about Lying.
[h=1]Stop this act of barbarity: MPs demand UN action to help Sudan death-row mother and baby before she is executed for marrying a Christian[/h]
- Death row mother Meriam Ibrahim, 27, gave birth to baby girl Maya yesterday
- She has been locked up for eight months for marrying a Christian
- Meriam's legs were chained as she gave birth to her daughter
- Sentenced to death and 100 lashes for marrying US citizen Daniel Wani
- Shadow foreign secretary slams 'barbaric sentence' - demands it is revoked
- Douglas Alexander says her treatment 'both inhuman and cruel'
- Calls on the Government to 'speak out firmly' to shame Sudan into action
- MPs on respected Foreign Affairs Committee demand UN intervention
The United Nations needs to intervene to stop a Sudanese mother of two being executed for marrying a Christian, senior MPs from all parties have demanded today.
Pregnant mother Meriam Ibrahim, 27, was thrown in jail in September for converting from Islam to Christianity after marrying US citizen Daniel Wani. She was sentenced to 100 lashes and death for her 'crime'.
Yesterday she gave birth to her baby girl Maya - while still shackled to the floor at the Omdurman Federal Women’s Prison in North Khartoum where she has been locked up for eight months.
The case has sparked global outrage and today, after shocking images of Meriam shortly after she gave birth were published on MailOnline, a host of MPs joined forces to demand action from the UN.
The plight of Meriam Ibrahim, 27, (pictured) who has spent eight months in prison after refusing to renounce Christianity, has sparked global outrage
.
Pregnant mother Meriam Ibrahim, 27, was thrown in jail in September for converting from Islam to Christianity after marrying US citizen Daniel Wani. She was sentenced to 100 lashes and death for her 'crime'.
Yesterday she gave birth to her baby girl Maya - while still shackled to the floor at the Omdurman Federal Women’s Prison in North Khartoum where she has been locked up for eight months.
The case has sparked global outrage and today, after shocking images of Meriam shortly after she gave birth were published on MailOnline, a host of MPs joined forces to demand action from the UN.
The plight of Meriam Ibrahim, 27, (pictured) who has spent eight months in prison after refusing to renounce Christianity, has sparked global outrage
.
[h=1]David Cameron 'urges Sudan to save death row woman'[/h]Last updated Sat 31 May 2014
David Cameron has urged the Sudanese government to lift the "barbaric" death sentence handed to a woman for marrying a Christian.
The Prime Minister joined Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Tony Blair in condemning the treatment of Meriam Ibrahim - who gave birth to a baby daughter this week while shackled in her cell.
Daniel Wani and his wife Meriam Ibrahim. Credit: ReutersMr Cameron said he was "absolutely appalled" when he heard about the plight of the 27-year-old. "The way she is being treated is barbaric and has no place in today's world," he told The Times (£).
"I urge the government of Sudan to overturn the sentence and immediately provide appropriate support and medical care for her and her children...The UK will continue to press the government of Sudan to act."
- World
- Sudan
David Cameron has urged the Sudanese government to lift the "barbaric" death sentence handed to a woman for marrying a Christian.
The Prime Minister joined Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Tony Blair in condemning the treatment of Meriam Ibrahim - who gave birth to a baby daughter this week while shackled in her cell.
"I urge the government of Sudan to overturn the sentence and immediately provide appropriate support and medical care for her and her children...The UK will continue to press the government of Sudan to act."
