The One Size Fits All Friendly Muslim Thread

[ScottL]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-cagaptay7-2009dec07,0,7721940.story

What is an Islamist foreign policy, exactly? Is it identifying with Muslims and their suffering, or is it identifying with anti-Western regimes even at the cost of Muslims' best interests?

Turkey's foreign policy under Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan demonstrates that far from protecting Muslims and their interests, it is promoting a la carte morals - bashing the West and supporting anti-Western regimes, even when the latter hurt Muslims.

Since coming to power in 2002, Erdogan's AKP has dramatically changed Turkey's foreign policy. The party has let Ankara's ties with pro-Western Azerbaijan, Georgia and Israel deteriorate and has started to ignore Europe.

Meanwhile, the AKP has built ties with anti-Western states such as Sudan while making friends with Ankara's erstwhile adversaries, including Russia, Iran and Syria, and positioning itself as Hamas' patron.

This is an ideological view of the world, guided not by religion but by a distorted premise that Islamist and anti-Western regimes are always right even when they are criminal, such as when they are killing Muslims. And in this view, Western states and non-Muslims are always wrong, even when they act in self-defense against Islamist regimes.

The writer is a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. (Los Angeles Times)
See also U.S. Concerned over Turkey's Moves toward Iran - Damien McElroy (Telegraph-UK)
See also Obama Seeks Turkey's Support on Iran Nuclear Issue - Ben Hancock (Christian Science Monitor)

 

[Mistermj]

Whoa, calm down man. I am very well educated. Why are you getting so worked up and taking childish shots about me having a grade 2 education? Geez.

As for buying me a book don't bother. I don't need some goof thinking he has knowledge about the religion which he obviously doesn't just because he memorized the Koran. As I said, reading a book doesn't make you an expert.

I studied religion. I also know plenty of Muslims and how they practise their religion. The people have changed how they follow the religion just like the Christians have. It's common throughout history. Don't you get that?

Do you want to disect the bible too and look at it's inaccuracies or evil messages?? Same with other religions. Also look how violently some christians used to follow and interpret the bible, does that mean the religion is evil? Some terrorists use the Koran as an excuse for violence but sadly they are misled or they know what they are doing and keep going for their own selfish purposes. That's all.

I did address the points you just didn't comprehend any of what I said.

I told you people have been misinterpreting the bible all throughout history and even today for their own gain or because they are just plain stupid. Same thing with the Koran.

I can say you didn't address any of the points I made.

We can go back and forth forever and the bottom line is I won't buy any of your simple minded fears about the religion and its people and you won't have your mind changed by anything I say so who cares anymore.

Islamic religion is a very popular religion, it's followers are many throughout the world, even in the States. I suggest you get over your fears over the big bad scary Muslims because I assure you they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Luckily for you the majority of them interpret the Koran correctly and follow it peacefully.

Man, I just woke up. I'm getting bored of this crap. Zit, Islam isn't the enemy and you're wasting your time ''fighting' the wrong enemy.

All the evil ones are mostly at the top starting with Osama. The rest are just morons that are misled and brainwashed and know nothing of the religion and just need money for their families or like the promise of virgins if they are killed during a mission which gives their pathetic existence some light at the end of the tunnel. They know nothing about the religion or much else for that matter but the things they are promised sound good so they take it. Sadly enough some educated ones get brainwashed too and that's the annoying part.

Islamic religion is a very popular religion, it's followers are many throughout the world, even in the States. I suggest you get over your fears over the big bad scary Muslims because I assure you they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Luckily for you the majority of them interpret the Koran correctly and follow it peacefully.

"If the terrorists misinterpret ISLAM, then so does Mohammad"

If ISLAM as interpreted by the terrorists is not true ISLAM, what is the strain of MODERATE ISLAM called? Who are its leaders and its followers? What is their literature? Where is it practiced?

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/if-the-terrorists-misinterpret-islam/

@)

 

[festeringZit]

"If the terrorists misinterpret ISLAM, then so does Mohammad"

If ISLAM as interpreted by the terrorists is not true ISLAM, what is the strain of MODERATE ISLAM called? Who are its leaders and its followers? What is their literature? Where is it practiced?


Great questions. Answers anyone?

 

[Mistermj]

* Crickets *

 

[ScottL]

Since I'd rather hear crickets than see sumday I'll answer the question. It's simple, really. Members of Moderate Islam recognize the nation in which they live and are willing to assimilate and contribute to the societies in which they live.

Contrarily, Islamists do not recognize the government or nation, unless already living under Sharia Law, and seek to overthrow and replace it with their own brutal rule. The methods by which they achieve these goals are intimidation and murder, both targeted and indiscriminate.

 

[barman]

If ISLAM as interpreted by the terrorists is not true ISLAM, what is the strain of MODERATE ISLAM called? Who are its leaders and its followers? What is their literature? Where is it practiced?

Two ways to get that question answered right in your face

1) Check on a sports handicapping web forum filled with a combination of apathetic-to-Muslims and ScaredShitless-of-Muslims.

2) Talk to some Real Live Muslims in your very own community and ask them these questions.

 

[barman]

 

[festeringZit]

Two ways to get that question answered right in your face

1) Check on a sports handicapping web forum filled with a combination of apathetic-to-Muslims and ScaredShitless-of-Muslims.

2) Talk to some Real Live Muslims in your very own community and ask them these questions.

Aint no one on here scared shitless of Muslims...

at least that I know of...

 

[Mistermj]

Two ways to get that question answered right in your face

1) Check on a sports handicapping web forum filled with a combination of apathetic-to-Muslims and ScaredShitless-of-Muslims.

2) Talk to some Real Live Muslims in your very own community and ask them these questions.

It's a serious question.

I would like to hear an answer that validates your reasons for mocking the anger and concerns that come from appeasement of radical Islam.

Are you afraid of them, which explains why you have no backbone on the issue?

As a case in point...you want a civilian trial for KSM but we already determined here that you really are not interested in justice by your statements of predetermined guilt.

The circle of logic continues...:grandmais
If ISLAM as interpreted by the terrorists is not true ISLAM, what is the strain of MODERATE ISLAM called? Who are its leaders and its followers? What is their literature? Where is it practiced? :think2:

 

[barman]

I'm primarily a follower of the Christan gospels.

If you want information about how Moderate Islam operates within the USA and in other parts of the world, I invite you to talk to someone in your own community who practices that faith.

 

[Mistermj]

I'm primarily a follower of the Christan gospels.

If you want information about how Moderate Islam operates within the USA and in other parts of the world, I invite you to talk to someone in your own community who practices that faith.

No...I'm interested in all the left wingers here who insist Islam contains "Moderate Muslims". Where is this "true Islam" that has not been radicalized?

You insist on it...so...you should be able to answer the question for us.



If ISLAM as interpreted by the terrorists is not true ISLAM, what is the strain of MODERATE ISLAM called? Who are its leaders and its followers? What is their literature? Where is it practiced?

 

[Mistermj]

If ISLAM as interpreted by the terrorists is not true ISLAM, what is the strain of MODERATE ISLAM called? Who are its leaders and its followers? What is their literature? Where is it practiced?

*Crickets* :think2:

Meanwhile in the real world...those pesky moderate Muslims that really aren't up to anything... and if you listen to the appeasing lefties here are certainly not organized. :think2:

Investigators: Northwest Bomb Plot Planned by al Qaeda in Yemen


Officials Say Bomb Materials Sewn Into Suspect's Underwear by Top Terror Bomb Maker

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-bomb-plot-planned-al-qaeda-yemen/story?id=9426085

 

[Mistermj]

Let's Roll 2 [Mark Steyn] :aktion033

On September 11th 2001, the government's (1970s) security procedures all failed, and the only good news of the day came from self-reliant citizens (on Flight 93) using their own wits and a willingness to act.

On December 25th 2009, the government's (post-9/11) security procedures all failed, and the only good news came once again from alert individuals:

"Suddenly, we hear a bang. It sounded like a firecracker went off," said Jasper Schuringa, a film director who was traveling to the US to visit friends.

"When [it] went off, everybody panicked ... Then someone screamed, 'Fire! Fire!'"

Schuringa, sitting in seat 20J, in the right-most section of the Airbus 330, looked to his left. "I saw smoke rising from a seat ... I didn't hesitate. I just jumped," he said.

Schuringa dove over four passengers to reach Abdul Mutallab's seat. The suspect had a blanket on his lap. "It was smoking and there were flames coming from beneath his legs."

"I searched on his body parts and he had his pants open. He had something strapped to his legs."

The unassuming hero ripped the flaming, molten object — which resembled a small, white shampoo bottle — off Abdul Mutallab's left leg, near his crotch. He said he put out the fire with his bare hands.

Schuringa yelled for water, and members of the flight crew soon appeared with fire extinguishers. Then, he said, he hauled the suspect out of the seat.

If the facts remain broadly as outlined, this incident has serious implications for airline travel: A man is on the no-fly list but is allowed to board the plane. Everyone flying on an inbound long-haul flight to the United States is forced to hand over excessively large amounts of liquids and gels and put the small amounts permitted into separate plastic bags, yet the no-fly guy's material for bomb-making sails through undetected.

This time the last line of defense worked. Next time, the paradise-seeking jihadist might get lucky and find himself sitting next to, say, Charlie Sheen, too immersed in a lengthy treatise on how 9/11 was an inside job to notice the smoldering socks in the next seat; or to the same kind of nothing-to-see-here crowd who thought Major Hasan's e-mails were "consistent with his research interests".

As for the perpetrator:

The young man, who yesterday night attempted to ignite an explosive device aboard a Delta Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Detroit, Michigan in the United States has been identified as Abdul Farouk Umar Abdulmutallab, the 23-year-old son of Alhaji Umaru Mutallab, former First Bank chairman. Mutallab, a former minister and prominent banker recently retired from the bank's board...

The family home of the Mutallabs in Central London, is currently being searched by men of the Metropolitan Police. THISDAY checks reveal that the suspect, Abdulfarouk Umar Muttalab who is an engineering student at the University College, London had been noted for his extreme views on religion since his secondary school days at the British International School, Lome, Togo.

So once again we see the foolishness of complaceniks who drone the fatuous cliches about how "in this struggle, scholarships will be far more important than smart bombs". The men eager to self-detonate on infidel airliners are not goatherders from the caves of Waziristan but educated middle-class Muslims who have had the most exposure to the western world and could be pulling down six-figure salaries almost anywhere on the planet. And don't look to "assimilation" to work its magic, either. We're witnessing a process of generational de-assimilation: In this family, yet again, the dad is an entirely assimilated member of the transnational elite. His son wants a global caliphate run on Wahhabist lines.
The Corner on National Review Online (26 December 2009)
http://corner.nationalreview.com/

A brilliant debunking of leftwing myths and lies about radical Islam...with cold hard facts. :toast:

 

[barman]

So a single dude tried to light himself on fire on a commercial airliner and couldn't even pull that off successfully?

At this pace, those RadicalIslamicsWhoWantToKillUsAll are going to have a tough time meeting their quota.

 

[Mistermj]

So a single dude tried to light himself on fire on a commercial airliner and couldn't even pull that off successfully?

At this pace, those RadicalIslamicsWhoWantToKillUsAll are going to have a tough time meeting their quota.

The single dude line is hilarious...considering the soft attack follow up today on the same flight. Who are you kidding?

They don't need the bombs to go off...much damage has been done to muck up our system. Have you talked to anyone trying to fly today?

Keep whistling past the graveyard...as they keep pecking away at the chinks in our armor.

They laugh at your lack of will and weakness...it empowers and invites more attacks. Basic human nature. Evil will always fill the vacuum.

 

[barman]

The single dude line is hilarious...considering the soft attack follow up today on the same flight.

lol

Yeah..that guy who got sick and was vomiting in the loo for about an hour.

Man oh man....we're fucked now!

Make sure and cancel all your plans to fly in coming months and years until the armies of Them have been brought to bear. Have fun driving ten hours for every one hour I'm happily aboard an airliner doing business as I always have, alongside (collectively) hundreds of thousands of North Americans who every single day board and fly airplanes without even once worrying that there might be some kook on board who will bring them harm.

And in the event you happen to be so desperate that you quell your fears and find yourself on board a commercial air flight, make sure and sit near the bathrooms so as to make sure no one stays in there more than the properly allotted amount of time. Who knows what manner of madness could be taking place within?

 

[ScottL]

Islamism 2.0

By Daniel Pipes

To borrow a computer term, if Ayatollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, and Nidal Hasan represent Islamism 1.0, Recep Tayyip Erdogan (the prime minister of Turkey), Tariq Ramadan (a Swiss intellectual), and Keith Ellison (a U.S. congressman) represent Islamism 2.0. The former kill more people but the latter pose a greater threat to Western civilization.

The 1.0 version attacks those perceived as obstructing its goal of a society ruled by a global caliphate and totally regulated by the Shari'a (Islamic law). Islamism's original tactics, from totalitarian rule to mega-terrorism, encompass unlimited brutality. Three thousand dead in one attack? Bin Laden's search for atomic weaponry suggests the murderous toll could be a hundred or even a thousand times larger.

However, a review of the past three decades, since Islamism became a significant political force, finds that violence alone rarely works. Survivors of terrorism rarely capitulate to radical Islam — not after the assassination of Anwar el-Sadat in Egypt in 1981, nor the 9/11 attacks, the Bali bombings of 2002, the Madrid bombing of 2004, the Amman bombing of 2005, or the terrorist campaigns in Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Terrorism does physical damage and kills and intimidates but it rarely overturns the existing order. Imagine Islamists had caused the devastation of Hurricane Katrina or the 2004 tsunami — what could these have lastingly achieved?

Non-terrorist violence aimed at applying the Shari'a does hardly better. Revolution (meaning, a wide-scale social revolt) took Islamists to power in just one place at one time - Iran in 1978—79. Likewise, coup d'�tat (a military overthrow) carried them to power just once — Sudan in 1989. Same for civil war — Afghanistan in 1996.

If the violence of Islamism 1.0 rarely succeeds in forwarding the Shari'a, the Islamism 2.0 strategy of working through the system does better. Islamists, adept at winning public opinion, represent the main opposition force in Muslim-majority countries such as Morocco, Egypt, Lebanon, and Kuwait. Islamists have enjoyed electoral success in Algeria in 1992, Bangladesh in 2001, Turkey in 2002, and Iraq in 2005.

Once in power, they can move the country toward Shari'a. As Mahmoud Ahmadinejad faces the wrath of Iranian street demonstrators and bin Laden cowers in a cave, Erdo?an basks in public approval, remakes the Republic of Turkey, and offers an enticing model for Islamists worldwide.

Recognizing this pattern, Al-Qaeda's once-leading theorist has publicly repudiated terrorism and adopted political means. Sayyid Imam al-Sharif (b. 1950, also known by the nom de guerre Dr. Fadl) was accused of helping assassinate Sadat. In 1988 he published a book that argued for perpetual, violent jihad against the West. With time, however, Sharif observed the inutility of violent attacks and instead advocated a strategy of infiltrating the state and influencing society.

In a recent book, he condemned the use of force against Muslims ("Every drop of blood that was shed or is being shed in Afghanistan and Iraq is the responsibility of bin Laden and Zawahiri and their followers") and even against non-Muslims (9/11 was counterproductive, for "what good is it if you destroy one of your enemy's buildings, and he destroys one of your countries? What good is it if you kill one of his people, and he kills a thousand of yours?").

Sharif's evolution from theorist of terrorism to advocate of lawful transformation echoes a much broader shift; accordingly, as author Lawrence Wright notes, his defection poses a "terrible threat" to Al-Qaeda. Other once-violent Islamist organizations in Algeria, Egypt, and Syria have recognized the potential of lawful Islamism and largely renounced violence. One also sees a parallel shift in Western countries; Ramadan and Ellison represent a burgeoning trend.

(What one might call Islamism 1.5 — a combination of hard and soft means, of external and internal approaches — also works. It involves lawful Islamists softening up the enemy, then violent elements seizing power. The Hamas takeover of Gaza proved that such a combination can work: win elections in 2006, then stage a violent insurrection in 2007. Similar processes are possibly underway in Pakistan. The United Kingdom might be undergoing the opposite process, whereby violence creates a political opening.)

In conclusion, only Islamists, not fascists or communists, have gone well beyond crude force to win public support and develop a 2.0 version. Because this aspect of Islamism undermines traditional values and destroys freedoms, it may threaten civilized life even more than does 1.0's brutality.

 

[Mistermj]

lol

Yeah..that guy who got sick and was vomiting in the loo for about an hour.

Man oh man....we're fucked now!

Make sure and cancel all your plans to fly in coming months and years until the armies of Them have been brought to bear. Have fun driving ten hours for every one hour I'm happily aboard an airliner doing business as I always have, alongside (collectively) hundreds of thousands of North Americans who every single day board and fly airplanes without even once worrying that there might be some kook on board who will bring them harm.

And in the event you happen to be so desperate that you quell your fears and find yourself on board a commercial air flight, make sure and sit near the bathrooms so as to make sure no one stays in there more than the properly allotted amount of time. Who knows what manner of madness could be taking place within?

I wouldn't be so fast to write off driving...but then again how fast does a lawn tractor go?

Meanwhile in the real world...yeah...driving looked better for a lot of people today.

You libs won't be happy until you ruin everything.

<tt><tt>[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA][SIZE=+7]

MISERY![/SIZE][/FONT]</tt></tt>

 

[barman]

So Joe, you're going to start driving every time you want to travel outside Wisky (or Toronto...heh)?

Darn the Liberals for making you so scared!

 

[ScottL]

KARACHI, Pakistan -A suicide bomber struck a procession marking a key Shiite Muslim holy day in Pakistani's biggest city Monday, killing 30 people in an attack blamed on extremists trying to hamper the country's fight against militancy by sparking a sectarian war.
Outraged Shiites responded to one of the worst sectarian attacks in the country this year by setting fire to buildings and vehicles at the blast site and pelting security forces with stones, a sign of frustration by the minority sect, which has suffered frequent attacks by Sunni extremist groups who regard them as heretical.
Authorities said these sectarian groups have teamed up with Taliban and al-Qaida militants waging war against the government in a joint effort to destabilize Pakistan. More than 500 people have been killed in attacks since mid-October when the army launched a major anti-Taliban offensive in the country's northwest.
"A deliberate attempt seems to be afoot by the extremists to turn the fight against militants into a sectarian clash and make the people fight against one another," said President Asif Ali Zardari in a statement.
The southern city of Karachi has largely been spared the Taliban-linked violence that has struck much of the rest of the country, a fact that analysts believe is driven by the group's tendency to use the teeming metropolis as a place to rest and raise money. But the city has been the scene of frequent sectarian, ethnic and political violence.
The suicide bomber who struck Monday targeted thousands of Shiites marching through the streets to observe Ashoura, the most important day of a monthlong mourning period for the seventh-century death of the Prophet Muhammad's grandson, Imam Hussein.
"I fell down when the bomb went off with a big bang," said Naseem Raza, a 26 year-old who was marching in the procession. "I saw walls stained with blood and splashed with human flesh."
Residents in apartments near the blast site tossed down body parts that had been cast into their homes from the explosion, while birds dove down to pick at the flesh amid damaged vehicles and motorbikes.
Authorities found the intact head and torso of the suicide bomber on the third floor of a nearby office building, where it had crashed through a window, said bomb disposal squad official Munir Sheikh. Some 35 pounds (16 kilograms) of high explosive were used in the bombing, he said.
Karachi police chief Waseem Ahmad said police were investigating the possibility that a second suicide bomber was also involved in the attack.
The blast killed 30 people and wounded another 60, said Sagheer Ahmad, the health minister in Sindh province, where Karachi is the capital.
At nearby Civil Hospital, relatives cried and beat their chests as the wounded lay on stretchers and beds.
Maj. Aurangzeb Khan, a spokesman for paramilitary troops who were protecting the procession, said the death toll would have been much higher if one of the soldiers had not spotted the suicide bomber and tackled him before he could enter the heart of the crowd.
"He just took him down, and the bomber detonated himself," said Khan.
Despite the heroics, Shiites went on a rampage after the blast, smashing shops and setting fire to a market, two other buildings and many vehicles as others in the procession tried to stop them. Some roamed the scene with guns and fired into the air.
Police and paramilitary troops eventually did the same to disperse the crowd.
Karachi Mayor Mustafa Kamal appealed for calm, calling on people not to clash with security forces and emergency personnel at the site.
"That is what terrorists are aiming at," he said. "They want to see this city again on fire."
Several protesters who fired guns and damaged property were arrested, said Sindh's chief minister, Qaim Ali Shah.
No group has claimed responsibility for Monday's attack, but Interior Minister Rehman Malik pointed his finger at a cluster of militant groups, including the Pakistani Taliban, al-Qaida, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Jaish-e-Mohammad, that he said have a joint goal to destabilize Pakistan.
"These are people who are against democracy, against our religion, against our Pakistan," said Malik.
The last two groups have received support from the Pakistani government in the past, but analysts say they have increasingly turned against the state as it has reduced its cooperation under U.S. pressure.
Security had been tightened across Pakistan for Ashoura, which was celebrated in other parts of the Muslim world on Sunday. The holy month of Muharram has often been marred by bombing and fighting between Pakistan's Sunnis and Shiites.
Malik said he had appealed to the Shiite community to cancel processions for the next two days.
"That does not mean that we are trying to interfere in their religious affairs, but we are doing it for the sake of security and to save precious lives," he said.
Monday's bombing was the third explosion in as many days to hit Karachi, although authorities attributed a blast that wounded 30 on Sunday to a buildup of gas in a sewage pipe.
Protests broke out after that blast too, with Shiites torching at least three vehicles.
On Saturday, another blast near a Shiite procession wounded 19 people. Authorities attributed that explosion to a firecracker that was so powerful it left a crater in the road.
A suicide bomber struck a Shiite procession Sunday in Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, killing eight people and wounding another 80. The bombing was a rare sectarian attack in an area police say has little history of militant violence.
—
Abbot reported from Islamabad. Associated Press writer Asif Shahzad in Islamabad contributed to this report.