The Bible doesn't always seem to make a lot of sense, so why should I read it?

[VOLTITAN]

The proof God exists. We could bring in scholars to argue theology etc...all day but this post I made in the past should explain it all to every (straight) man.

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=8833078286

 

[Marco]

SSI....when you speak about the math behind Noah and the sons and the wives and start putting a pyramid together from thier offspring to come up with the earth's population....

Did you factor into the equation all the wars, plagues, diseases, abortions, sterility....all those factors that reduce that 2.5 children that everyone is supposed to have? Not all of them lived out ripe of ages and had a slew of children...

What about the gays and the lesbians and the bachelors and spinsters who had no children? Is this total based on the assumption that everyone on this planet had offspring? How about the chinese and population controls?

As far as some of the people speaking about having belief in God in order to save one's soul....as you refer to the fate of nonbelievers...

May I suggest that these people should invest and believe in multiple religions just to make sure you believe in the correct God who is going to save you for the mere act of feeling that he exists.....I guess one just can't have too much life insurance for the soul...

 

[UncleMoneybags]

xpanda,

Astrobiological theory and just abstract reasoning in general are weaks areas for me. As a human, my brain is wired to process corporeal concepts. Everything has a beginning and an ending. Those things I can understand for the most part.

I've gone through the existential origins like: If God created us, Where did he originate? Did someone create Him? If so, Someone had to create those being/s. Or, did he exist for trillions and trillions of years and one day decided to curb boredom by creating different things?

Darwin's theory is just as hard to grasp IMO. It's been a while as I studied Darwin in the sixth grade but to answer one of his skeptics as to the origin of the first molecules of life and he said that God put them there. I would have kicked him in the balls if he wasted my time by saying that.

 

[SSI]

Marco: nice points and you are entitled to all of them ,,, but for me, im going to go with the God of the Bible. several reasons as to why i say this and am most assured of this...

Lets look at this from a different angle guys, lets go to the past 100 years, as well as the present and the not too distant future.. Lets not go back eons ago... Do you guys think the things that are happening in the world today and of the last 100 years or so -- are by sheer accident.. You see guys 25% of the Bible is prophecy, a detail of future events....... I believe the same Jesus that left is returning again.. Oh i believe this with all my heart.. Look at this generation and what makes it different from any that have ever been on this earth. Lets look at a few examples:

1) Isreal is a nation again, happened in 1948. In one day it will become a nation again. Ezekial prophesied this many years ago..
2) Isreal gains control of Jerusalem in 1967 during the 6 day war.. How is it that tiny Isreal can hold off millions of arabs that surround it -- without Gods help.
3) Isreal exports up to 90% of Europes citrus products. How can this be, The Lord said that he would make it flower and produce once again. Isreal seen from outer space (space shuttle) appears as a tiny green speck amidst a region of brown. What makes it fertile when its neighbor are in a desert.
4) The advent of Knowledge as spoken of in the book of Daniel, Man has advanced more in the last 100 years than all the other years combined.
5) Oncoming cashless society, its happening all the time. Credit cards, debit cards, soon the mark will come.
6) The revival of the old roman empire, this is the EU guys.. One day England will not be in the EU, remember who told you that one.. England and the US are merely offshoots of Ephriam and Manassas but thats a little deep for now.
7) Man can now utterly wipe itself off the face of the earth, never before has this been the case. The nuclear weapons now make this possible.
8) The increase of earthquakes, look it up as to what the increase of earthquakes are over the last 100 years (magnitue of 5 or higher).. They have exploded in frequency.
9) Why is it that almost on every evening news story the Middle East and most of the time Isreal is at the top of the news. How can such a tiny nation be the centerpeice (stumbling block or burdensome stone) of the world.

You see guys in 1948, the clock started ticking, no man knows the hour or the day of the coming of the Lord but you can know the times and the season.

pay attention, guys we are moving to a one world order, with a one world religion. its right in front of you, there will be a man come on the seen. he will conquer with peace. he will bring peace to isreal and the middle east. this will be a false peace.. its in our face now and most cant see it.

China is building a highway to the middle east, for no apparent economic reason. Care to venture why they are doing this. The Aswan Dam can now dam the Tigris and Euphrate river for the first time in the history of the world. care to know why this is so..

Ive got to go, sorry for rambling but Prophecy is what makes the BIBLE DIFFERENT. Read what Daniel told King Nebuchanezzar about his dream of the weird looking statue and what it meant.. It had a head of Gold, a breast of brass, arms of silver and legs of iron.. These were the 4 kingdoms that were to come upon the earth before the end. Daniel spoke of these years before they occured.. Nebuchanezzar was the head of Gold, He was the king of Babylon (present day Iraq). Brass was the kingdom of Alexander the great. The Medes and Persians were known for silver.. Iron was the markings of the Old Roman Empire...... Finally this statue was finished with the feet, a composite of iron and clay.. Sort of a hodge podge of governments, kind of like you see in the world today.. Gotta run now...

The People's Champ

 

[PatPatriot]

There..explain that you liberal heathens.

 

[xpanda]

If prophecy is what makes the bible different, then where does Nostradamus sit on the scale of believability? He also prophecies, btw, a major clash of civilisations, with the anti-Christ likely emerging from the MidEast whose death or capture will spark a 27-year war in which the Christians will win. Sound familiar?

Oh, by the way, in perfect anagram form, the anti-Christ's name is Mabus, read backwards it says Sudam, or, if you flip the first two letters vertically and horizontally (mirrored each time) it reads GW Bus, when the 'a' is drawn in proper font.

Go figure.

 

[SSI]

sounds to me like your talking about future events.. There is a lot more vagueness in his quatrains.. Let me give you a few prophecies from the old Testament prophets that were written about Jesus -- hundreds of years before he came and why he is the only person that can fit these requirements.. pay attention now, are you ready?

1) his birth in Bethleham from the tribe of Judah (Micah 5:2)
prophecy fulfilled in (Matthew 2:1)

2) He would be preceded by a messenger (Isiah 40:3)
prophecy fulfilled in (Matthew 3:1,2)

3) He would enter jerusalem on a colt ( Zechariah 9:9)
prophecy fulfilled in ( Luke 19: 35-37)

4) He would be betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9)
prophecy fulfilled in (Matthew 26: 47-48)

5) His hands and feet would be peirced (Psalm 22:16)
Prophecy fulfilled in (Luke 23:3 )

6) He would be wounded by his enemies (Isiah 53:5)
fulfilled in (Matthew 27:26)

7) His betrayal for 30 peices of silver (Zechariah 11:12)
fulfilled in (Matthew 26:15)

8) He will be spit upon and beaten (Isiah 50:6)
fulfilled in (Matthew 26:67)

9) His betrayal money would be thrown in a temple, and then used to buy a potters field (Zechariah 11:13)
fulfilled in (Matthew 27:5-7)

10) He would be silent from his accusers (Isiah 53:7)
fulfilled in (Matthew 27:12-14)

11) He would be crucified with thieves (Isiah 53:12)
fulfilled (Matthew 27:38)

12) People would gamble for his garments (Psalm 22:18)
fulfilled (John 19:23,24)

13) His side would be peirced (Zechariah 12:10)
fulfilled (John 19:34)

14) None of his bones would be broken (Psalm 34:20)
fulfilled (John 19:33)

15) His body would not decay (Psalm 16:10)
fulfilled (Acts 2:31)

16) His burial in a rich mans tomb (Isiah 53:9)
fulfilled (Matthew 27: 57-60)

17) The darkness covering the earth at crucifixtion (Amos 8:9)
fulfilled (Matthew 27:45)

there are a few prophecies written hundres of years before Christ, that point straight to only one man.. care to venture the probabilities of one of them coming true, how about all of them.. staggering wouldnt it seem.

I will be glad to discuss any or all of these.. You see this is real, and it will happen whether we believe it or not.. Jesus is coming again some day, do you care to bet your soul against it? I mean no harm to anyone, merely a discussion.. Thank You..

The People's Champ

 

[truthteller]

SSI, Jesus could appear in front of Xpanda and she still wouldn's believe God exist since that might put her and her feminist movement a few years back

 

[oldmanTED]

And here I am, born in the precious year of 1948, the son of a jewish immigrant from Poland, baptized Catholic by my mother, raised jewish in order not to be alienated from my father. I hope there is a plan for me.

 

[Marco]

truthteller....If Jesus did appear in front of Xpanda and the rest of the billions of people on this planet then we'd have a reason to believe in a specific faith...until then it will be the same old argument of which religion is correct or if any of them are correct at all. If an alien came down and parked his/her/its ride in the middle of the street and came out and shook hands with everyone in the neighborhood you could probably guess that there would be a few more believers in aliens. If some God wants us to believe in him or his work, then give us a solid, unmistakeable sign. When was the last time a thread this length developed while arguing about gravity? Maybe because the mere existence of gravity is proven by simply rolling one's pen off the table? If some God wants us to believe then come down every once inna while and give a speech to everyone instead of condemning the people for not believing in something that provides little proof of its existance.

SSI....about the only thing we agree on is that yes, we are both entitled to feel and believe in what we choose to....

When you asked if we think that the things that are happening in the world today are happening by sheer accident....I'd say that the world is being shaped by individual actions...some more so than others....when one considers the actions of guys like Hitler or Napolean or the guy who shot the archduke and basically started the ball rolling that developed into WWI...had these people not lived one might come to a different conclusion about the way history would have played out....maybe good, maybe worse....kinda like that other thread about taking a card out of the blackjack shoe and changing the deck after that, for good or for bad, no one knows.....

I agree with your thoughts about the world moving towards a cashless society....

Your comparisons on Israel are a little weak. When you say about how Israel could be so green while the rest of the country around it is desert....one could say the same about Hawaii....how can that be such a paradise while the rest of the area around it is water? Simple geography. Seeing Isreal green while the rest of the area is desert is simply drawing the bullseye around the most bullet holes.

Why is Israel in the news most of the time? Because of the constant fighting and bombing that goes on in that craphole. When the bombs quit going off and the suicide bombers go home and watch cable tv instead of blowing themselves up along with 14 other people, then Israel will fade from the newsreel.....Who wants to send a reporter out to get footage of some villager grinding roots and tree bark to make some herbal soup?

One world religion? Would the length of this thread even hint at the thought that there could be one world religion that everyone on the planet would accept? Absolutely not. Religion is here to stay and religion is passed on to future generations and is part of tradition. Too much fighting amongst the religions to ever absorb everyone into one religion....I just wish I had a dollar for everyone that died because of some needless religious war....

Quoting from the bible? That's been pretty easy to do, considering how vague some passages are and how easy it is to twist these passages into an interpretation that fits ones agenda. Just think about the death penalty. How many passages exist to justify either position on this issue, whether you're in favor of it or not? People drag all kind of passages out to try to prove thier position or justify thier stance.

 

[SSI]

thanks for keeping it in discussion form and not attacking someone publicly. and yes Ted there is a plan for you.. Gods chosen people was the Jews and they were chosen to be the lineage that brought forth Christ. This would lead to a lot more discussion but the Jews will accept Christ as Messiah at the 2nd coming and many will be saved.. Nice to hear from you, email from time to time..

The People's Champ

 

[SSI]

here is a partial list of prophecies revealed in our lifetime.

1) the rebirth of isreal
2) predictions about the present arab/israeli conflict
3) the restoration of the Hebrew language, this is a good one.. do you ever see anyone speaking ancient egyptian or chaldean today?
4) the return of Jews in large numbers to the homeland
5) the astonishing fertitiy of Isreal, i can speak in a little detail about this but im keeping it brief.
6) Isreals plan to rebuild the temple, another good subject.
7) rediscovery of the special oil of annoiting
8) the revival of the roman empire, this started in 1957 by the way when six countries signed the treaty of Rome laying the foundation for the future United States of Europe. Henri Spaak, the former secretary general of NATO admitted in a BBC documentary on the EU that "we felt like Romans on that day" quote.
9) the rebuilding of Babylon
10) One world government
11) the rise in killer earthquakes.
12) preparations for the Mark of the Beast
13) worldwide satellite and television communications
14) tremendous increase in knowledge and travel in the Last days
15) preperations for the battle of Armegeddon
16) the military highway across asia and the drying up of the euphrates river.

The People's Champ

 

[SSI]

Marco, my point about the fertility of Isreal was: that in 1948 Isreal was no different than any of the surrounding land. they were not a green and flowering area, they were barren and desolate, just like the majority of their neighbors.. due to a fabolous irrigation system and the increase in rainfall (you can look that up) they have became a green region.. when rome destroyed jerusalem in ad 70 read what they did to the land..

The People's Champ

 

[Marco]

SSI.....I believe you missed a few:

17) A team from California will return to the superbowl
18) A rock star will overdose on drugs or may seek treatment
19) A porn star in the near future will contract the aids virus
20) Another bomb will explode somewhere in the middle east
21) Divorce between celebrities will increase
22) a scandal will rock a politician and his career
23) computers will become faster
24) gas prices will fluctuate on a daily or possibly weekly basis

....all equally vague and just waiting for interpretation..

 

[SSI]

ok let me explain one of these to you..

Jesus prophesied that in the last days this generation would witness the greatest earthquakes in history. Now look this up, in the past killer quakes of magnitude 7.2 or greater occured about once per decade throughout history until our century. However since 1900 the growth in major earthquakes has been relentless. from 1900-1949 it averaged 3 major quakes per 10 years. from 1949 the increase became greater with 9 killer quakes in the 1950's, 13 in the 1960's, 56 in the 1970's, and an amazing 74 killer quakes in the 1980's. finally in the 90's we experienced over 100 killer quakes (magnitude 7.2 or above). (Source : US Geological Survey Earthquake Report, Boulder Colorado).......

this does not sound like business as usual, this is not vague. these are facts --- earthquakes are increasing, you may not believe the reason but you cant dispute the numbers..

the other statements are not vague and i could give more points on any of them..

The People's Champ

 

[SportSavant]

how long have we been measuring earthquakes? cannot be that many years can it?

 

[SSI]

ok, just look at the increase of killer quakes since the 1950's..

The People's Champ

 

[Marco]

SSI....you stated that "Jesus prophesied that in the last days this generation would witness the greatest earthquakes in history"...

You listed the frequency of earthquakes over the decades....showing an increase in frequency and scale....

You are assuming that the earthquakes may be at or near the peak.....it could get worse or it could get better, it could flatline and stay constant....

My analogy would be Berkshire Hathaway stock...If I told you to sell when the stock rose up high....Who knew just how high it was going to go when it went from a few thousand dollars a share to 60 or 70,000 or whatever it peaked at? I remember a time around the late 80's when it was somewhere around 8 to $10,000......People then were wondering how high it could go....What's to keep it from going higher than a level that it has already been at?

Who's to say where the peak is at with the earthquakes in relation to the last days of mankind? Have we already seen the "greatest earthquakes in history"?

 

[SSI]

thats not really the same at all.. im tired tonight guys but tomorrow id like to tell you about how the ancient language of Hebrew has been reborn. It had died completely out and was spoken by no one and today is spoken by several million people, this has happened in the last 50 or so years.. once again thanks for the civil conversation...

The People's Champ

 

[SportSavant]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ok, just look at the increase of killer quakes since the 1950's.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this is such a small window of time making it IMO irrelevent...