The Landmark Supreme court decision of 1974
This ruling in our favor is what sprung the current generation of True Old Guard/Vegas Old Guard types whom now sit median 62 in age.
It took the Feds 14 years from the time of this decision to come up with laws to try and stop the gambling buisness from flourishing.
During this time many Feds lived here in Vegas and followed these guys, ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE. Taking notes, pictures, eating and hanging out in the same resturants and places they did.
They were not friends, but they knew each other. Hard not to when people follow you around for 14 years. Can you imagine today, going to work and having the Feds out there everyday watching you as you go up and down the strip (about 5 real betting places then, clumped together) making your bets and hanging with your friends.
Just remember they did not come after the sports and race people till late 89 when they were about three quarters done with the guys they were really after upstairs.
Before then, even though they harrased them, the sports people were left alone and many did retire or just walkedway clean in the final days.
May 27, 1974 Time Magazine
What the U.S. needed, Richard Nixon said again and again during his 1968 campaign, was "a new Attorney General." When Bond Lawyer John Mitchell moved into the Justice Department after the election, he went all out to make good on Nixon's implied promise that the country's top legal officer would know how to use wiretaps to fight organized crime. Last week that promise, like so many others from the law-and-order Nixon Administration, collapsed dramatically. The Supreme Court ruled that a sizable chunk of Mitchell's taps were improper and illegal. At one stroke, the decision wiped out nearly two years of dogged work by federal investigators, and imperiled at least 60 cases involving no fewer than 626 accused gamblers, narcotics dealers and other racketeers.
The devastating decision was handed down in a federal case against Dominic N. Giordano, a Baltimore drug dealer who was indicted in 1970 on narcotics charges. The Justices ruled 9-0 that a lower court had properly dismissed Giordano's indictment because the evidence against him had been obtained in an unlawful wiretap. The 1968 Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act gave federal investigators vastly expanded authority to use taps - as long as they were personally approved by the Attorney General or a specially designated assistant. But dozens of authorizations, including those in the Giordano case, were simply initialed "JNM" by an obscure Mitchell aide named Sol Lindenbaum, or sometimes by Lindenbaum's secretary. That irregularity, the court concluded, was no mere technicality. Congress plainly meant to "narrowly confine" the use of electronic eavesdropping, wrote Justice Byron White in the unanimous opinion. Thus Congress had been careful to require that "the mature judgment of a particular, responsible official" would be involved in any decision to tap.
How could the Attorney General have overlooked such a clearly stated legal responsibility? Though Mitchell himself was saying nothing, others have not been so reticent. Aide Lindenbaum bluntly blames the foul-up on Mitchell's overwhelming preoccupation with political concerns - particularly with promoting the Administration's law-and-order image. As Lindenbaum has been telling it, Mitchell never bothered to authorize any one of his eight Assistant Attorneys General to sign wiretap requests; he apparently wanted to sign them himself - the better to enhance his chosen political pose as a tough, sleeves-up crime fighter. So, at first, Lindenbaum would prepare the necessary papers, which Mitchell would hurriedly sign. After a while, Lindenbaum took to signing Mitchell's initials on the tap requests when Mitchell was out of town - often without even discussing the request with his boss on the telephone.
The procedure was patently improper.
It clearly threatened the work of investigators in 22 federal anticrime "strike forces" around the nation; yet it continued for 20 months between April 1970 and November 1971.
The Mitchell Justice Department's slapdash approach to wiretaps first came to light when a defense attorney spotted a different irregularity. Two Justice officials had also been signing an Assistant Attorney General's name to various wiretap authorizations that the Assistant A.G. had not approved. The court considered those cases too last week and decided by a narrow 5-4 majority that that evidence should not be thrown out because Mitchell filed an affidavit saying that he had actually authorized the surveillance - even though the Assistant A.G.'s name was the one on the documents. The practice was sloppy, said the court, but not legally disabling.
But in cases like Giordano's, where Lindenbaum did the okaying, the evidence resulting from the taps may not be used even though the taps may have been otherwise legal. The prosecutions that appear to be damaged by the ruling are concentrated in the Midwest and East. Officials reckon that the bungled taps will wreck more than a third of the 89 federal crime cases pending in Massachusetts alone. Crestfallen investigators were still assessing the nationwide damage at week's end, but it was clear that some important defendants will get away:
>In Chicago, the ruling has bollixed a major gambling case involving 28 defendants charged with operating a Mob-controlled betting network that handled $70,000 a week in six states.
>In Detroit, the decision could free 151 defendants in one massive case; it was developed by taps that led to a 1971 raid by 400 FBI agents who successfully broke up a gambling ring grossing $15 million a year in 36 cities.
>In the District of Columbia, the main casualty is a painstakingly constructed case against accused Gambling Kingpin Louis Mantello and some 26 other defendants indicted in 1971 in the biggest criminal action against gambling ever brought in the capital. The Mantello wiretap led to a roundup of 1,000 assorted hoodlums in gambling raids in Florida, Oregon, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania and New York, plus the breakup of a Manhattan-based Mafia operation that handled up to $60 million a year in illegal wagers. The fate of the related cases is uncertain, but Assistant U.S. Attorney Donald Campbell has no doubt about the future of the Mantello indictments. "That's it," he said angrily last week. "There is no more case."
This ruling in our favor is what sprung the current generation of True Old Guard/Vegas Old Guard types whom now sit median 62 in age.
It took the Feds 14 years from the time of this decision to come up with laws to try and stop the gambling buisness from flourishing.
During this time many Feds lived here in Vegas and followed these guys, ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE. Taking notes, pictures, eating and hanging out in the same resturants and places they did.
They were not friends, but they knew each other. Hard not to when people follow you around for 14 years. Can you imagine today, going to work and having the Feds out there everyday watching you as you go up and down the strip (about 5 real betting places then, clumped together) making your bets and hanging with your friends.
Just remember they did not come after the sports and race people till late 89 when they were about three quarters done with the guys they were really after upstairs.
Before then, even though they harrased them, the sports people were left alone and many did retire or just walkedway clean in the final days.
May 27, 1974 Time Magazine
What the U.S. needed, Richard Nixon said again and again during his 1968 campaign, was "a new Attorney General." When Bond Lawyer John Mitchell moved into the Justice Department after the election, he went all out to make good on Nixon's implied promise that the country's top legal officer would know how to use wiretaps to fight organized crime. Last week that promise, like so many others from the law-and-order Nixon Administration, collapsed dramatically. The Supreme Court ruled that a sizable chunk of Mitchell's taps were improper and illegal. At one stroke, the decision wiped out nearly two years of dogged work by federal investigators, and imperiled at least 60 cases involving no fewer than 626 accused gamblers, narcotics dealers and other racketeers.
The devastating decision was handed down in a federal case against Dominic N. Giordano, a Baltimore drug dealer who was indicted in 1970 on narcotics charges. The Justices ruled 9-0 that a lower court had properly dismissed Giordano's indictment because the evidence against him had been obtained in an unlawful wiretap. The 1968 Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act gave federal investigators vastly expanded authority to use taps - as long as they were personally approved by the Attorney General or a specially designated assistant. But dozens of authorizations, including those in the Giordano case, were simply initialed "JNM" by an obscure Mitchell aide named Sol Lindenbaum, or sometimes by Lindenbaum's secretary. That irregularity, the court concluded, was no mere technicality. Congress plainly meant to "narrowly confine" the use of electronic eavesdropping, wrote Justice Byron White in the unanimous opinion. Thus Congress had been careful to require that "the mature judgment of a particular, responsible official" would be involved in any decision to tap.
How could the Attorney General have overlooked such a clearly stated legal responsibility? Though Mitchell himself was saying nothing, others have not been so reticent. Aide Lindenbaum bluntly blames the foul-up on Mitchell's overwhelming preoccupation with political concerns - particularly with promoting the Administration's law-and-order image. As Lindenbaum has been telling it, Mitchell never bothered to authorize any one of his eight Assistant Attorneys General to sign wiretap requests; he apparently wanted to sign them himself - the better to enhance his chosen political pose as a tough, sleeves-up crime fighter. So, at first, Lindenbaum would prepare the necessary papers, which Mitchell would hurriedly sign. After a while, Lindenbaum took to signing Mitchell's initials on the tap requests when Mitchell was out of town - often without even discussing the request with his boss on the telephone.
The procedure was patently improper.
It clearly threatened the work of investigators in 22 federal anticrime "strike forces" around the nation; yet it continued for 20 months between April 1970 and November 1971.
The Mitchell Justice Department's slapdash approach to wiretaps first came to light when a defense attorney spotted a different irregularity. Two Justice officials had also been signing an Assistant Attorney General's name to various wiretap authorizations that the Assistant A.G. had not approved. The court considered those cases too last week and decided by a narrow 5-4 majority that that evidence should not be thrown out because Mitchell filed an affidavit saying that he had actually authorized the surveillance - even though the Assistant A.G.'s name was the one on the documents. The practice was sloppy, said the court, but not legally disabling.
But in cases like Giordano's, where Lindenbaum did the okaying, the evidence resulting from the taps may not be used even though the taps may have been otherwise legal. The prosecutions that appear to be damaged by the ruling are concentrated in the Midwest and East. Officials reckon that the bungled taps will wreck more than a third of the 89 federal crime cases pending in Massachusetts alone. Crestfallen investigators were still assessing the nationwide damage at week's end, but it was clear that some important defendants will get away:
>In Chicago, the ruling has bollixed a major gambling case involving 28 defendants charged with operating a Mob-controlled betting network that handled $70,000 a week in six states.
>In Detroit, the decision could free 151 defendants in one massive case; it was developed by taps that led to a 1971 raid by 400 FBI agents who successfully broke up a gambling ring grossing $15 million a year in 36 cities.
>In the District of Columbia, the main casualty is a painstakingly constructed case against accused Gambling Kingpin Louis Mantello and some 26 other defendants indicted in 1971 in the biggest criminal action against gambling ever brought in the capital. The Mantello wiretap led to a roundup of 1,000 assorted hoodlums in gambling raids in Florida, Oregon, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania and New York, plus the breakup of a Manhattan-based Mafia operation that handled up to $60 million a year in illegal wagers. The fate of the related cases is uncertain, but Assistant U.S. Attorney Donald Campbell has no doubt about the future of the Mantello indictments. "That's it," he said angrily last week. "There is no more case."
More insights from the Other Side of the Counter. OTC.
I mean here we are its 8 am on a Saturday which is one hour before kick off and we got wanna be wise guy going, what do you mean I cant bet a football game???? Its a baseball lottey sir, if you wanted to bet a football game you could have done so an hour ago when you got here.
The histrionics that go along with this is beyond compare. People stomping there feet, looking up in the air, going psss, jesus. Behind the counter its no different, just without the noises. Body language is another story. Looks a third. Triple so if the guy is in your window. Not what you want to see.
Not only is said person holding up the line, but there are a million people in LINE. Two windows in the 1 and 2 spots are way to valuable to be slowing down.
Most times though people would bet, but bet scared. All would come away proud. Sometimes we even moved the line. This would set them afroth and piss off the groups. If you hit an indicator, you hit one and we move accordingly. Most bet more than a dime, just not with confidence, but it was there normal bet, you can tell these things. Its like being in the tee box in golf with other people you dont know watching you, you know you can do it, but its just different. 1234 Pressure.
Hilarious from a certain point of view. Win, lose or draw, all have come away with the expierence of a lifetime. They made moves with the wise. It is one of the fun little things that go on behind and in front of the counter.
Lots of fun little things go on between both sides. Lets face it, day to day, hour by hour, its a boring ass job to a degree. There is a lot of downtime.
You get to know people very well after a while and what many call degenratres and bums are really your family. You certainly interact that way.
To be continued.
Sugarbear said:
I mean here we are its 8 am on a Saturday which is one hour before kick off and we got wanna be wise guy going, what do you mean I cant bet a football game???? Its a baseball lottey sir, if you wanted to bet a football game you could have done so an hour ago when you got here.
The histrionics that go along with this is beyond compare. People stomping there feet, looking up in the air, going psss, jesus. Behind the counter its no different, just without the noises. Body language is another story. Looks a third. Triple so if the guy is in your window. Not what you want to see.
Not only is said person holding up the line, but there are a million people in LINE. Two windows in the 1 and 2 spots are way to valuable to be slowing down.
Most times though people would bet, but bet scared. All would come away proud. Sometimes we even moved the line. This would set them afroth and piss off the groups. If you hit an indicator, you hit one and we move accordingly. Most bet more than a dime, just not with confidence, but it was there normal bet, you can tell these things. Its like being in the tee box in golf with other people you dont know watching you, you know you can do it, but its just different. 1234 Pressure.
Hilarious from a certain point of view. Win, lose or draw, all have come away with the expierence of a lifetime. They made moves with the wise. It is one of the fun little things that go on behind and in front of the counter.
Lots of fun little things go on between both sides. Lets face it, day to day, hour by hour, its a boring ass job to a degree. There is a lot of downtime.
You get to know people very well after a while and what many call degenratres and bums are really your family. You certainly interact that way.
To be continued.
The Four Corners of downtown Las Vegas.
Ohh man talk about the good ole days at the very height of my Jr Wise Guy days. If you wanted to scalp and middle in as few steps as possible, it was the only place to be. Like heaven really why be any place else? An excellent mixture of old, new, in between and dying resided down there with most doing the exact same thing to one degree or another. It was great to hang around in and just be a degenrate. I loved every minute of it.
You could go from Binions, to the Fremont, to the Four Queens and the Fitzgerald in no time trying to shop numbers and catch middles. Even as late as 94 those were four seprate books with diffrences in there numbers. Not much but you could defintly set yourself up if you were willing to move your ass and hustle. Double so if you include the Las vegas Club whom booked aggressivly and offered a variety of unique bets a lot of the time that caterd to the small player and wanna be wise guys. Like me and my JR Wise Guy friends.
Now mind you, thats HUSTLE as in your own two feet, outside with people trying to get to the same places as you, trying to get the same numbers as you before the runners got them and moved the line. Not on your computer, typing away furiously in your nice comfy chairs and aircondtioned rooms. COULD YOU DO IT?
To be continued...
Ohh man talk about the good ole days at the very height of my Jr Wise Guy days. If you wanted to scalp and middle in as few steps as possible, it was the only place to be. Like heaven really why be any place else? An excellent mixture of old, new, in between and dying resided down there with most doing the exact same thing to one degree or another. It was great to hang around in and just be a degenrate. I loved every minute of it.
You could go from Binions, to the Fremont, to the Four Queens and the Fitzgerald in no time trying to shop numbers and catch middles. Even as late as 94 those were four seprate books with diffrences in there numbers. Not much but you could defintly set yourself up if you were willing to move your ass and hustle. Double so if you include the Las vegas Club whom booked aggressivly and offered a variety of unique bets a lot of the time that caterd to the small player and wanna be wise guys. Like me and my JR Wise Guy friends.
Now mind you, thats HUSTLE as in your own two feet, outside with people trying to get to the same places as you, trying to get the same numbers as you before the runners got them and moved the line. Not on your computer, typing away furiously in your nice comfy chairs and aircondtioned rooms. COULD YOU DO IT?
To be continued...
Could you do it, internet generation?
I mean really internet generation, you whom let there fingers do the walking in there nice comfy chairs. Could you get up in the morning, throw a different combination of about the same three sets of clothes you have, get on a bus, go downtown, hang with mostly waiting to die old men, plus other assorted miscrerants of the society. Just so you could run around, bet and try to catch middles like the wise?
And to think I came here to go to college.
uppy: :missingte Whooooo.
How about your diet? Could you really and truly for months on end survive eating shit to mid range shit buffets, hot dogs and other assoerted things you could luck up on if things were not quite rolling for you, as it is most of the time. On the other hand when you make a score, could you go spend some of the money on a nice meal or something or would you buy a hot dog like most and make bigger bets? Or even go to the tables trying to make it more.
Think about it internet generation, its a ton harder to do than you know.
Could you really stop and smell the roses.
For my closest friend, Larry the man on the street and I, it was about catching the good meal and or buying something. Not all the time mind you, because sometimes you do need the money for bigger bets, halftimes, horse races and what not. Unlike are compatriarts whom ran to the tables and or just bet more, we were determined to come away with something.
Man were those ever the days though. Never thought a thing about it or saw anything wrong with it, its just what I did.
I really would do it again. If you could, WOULD YOU.
Sugarbear said:
I mean really internet generation, you whom let there fingers do the walking in there nice comfy chairs. Could you get up in the morning, throw a different combination of about the same three sets of clothes you have, get on a bus, go downtown, hang with mostly waiting to die old men, plus other assorted miscrerants of the society. Just so you could run around, bet and try to catch middles like the wise?
And to think I came here to go to college.
uppy: :missingte Whooooo.How about your diet? Could you really and truly for months on end survive eating shit to mid range shit buffets, hot dogs and other assoerted things you could luck up on if things were not quite rolling for you, as it is most of the time. On the other hand when you make a score, could you go spend some of the money on a nice meal or something or would you buy a hot dog like most and make bigger bets? Or even go to the tables trying to make it more.
Think about it internet generation, its a ton harder to do than you know.
Could you really stop and smell the roses.
For my closest friend, Larry the man on the street and I, it was about catching the good meal and or buying something. Not all the time mind you, because sometimes you do need the money for bigger bets, halftimes, horse races and what not. Unlike are compatriarts whom ran to the tables and or just bet more, we were determined to come away with something.
Man were those ever the days though. Never thought a thing about it or saw anything wrong with it, its just what I did.
I really would do it again. If you could, WOULD YOU.
The Monday Morning Lottery. The fall of 92.
We all know about the Stardust Lottery, and very certainly the Sunday night lottery during football season, back in the days of old, when the Stardust was King.
But, very few know about the Monday Morning Lotteries that took place place the next day down the street. First at the Tropicana, with Bobby Davis running things. Then over to the Excalibur, where Sid Diamond was at the time.
Man was this ever an exciting event for me. I wasn't at the Dust, but Bobby had all the wise guy respect. They knew they could get playable numbers and we did cater to the runners. So everybody about 9:30 am starts to gather for a 10 O'Clock start.
Talk about fun. I would come in at 9, grab the team plaques and start setting up the rest of the board for the games that week. After that, I would set up my drawer and get the counters ready for the sheets and what not.
By 9:30 I was always pretty much done. I would go over and look over Bobbys shoulder, as he looked at the line reports from the night before. The report was just one long line of computer paper right out of the box. When he came in at 9, the first thing he did was turn on the computer to run the report. It took a awhile to run. Needed 2 boxes to print it all. While that was going on, he would pour over the computer and start making the sheets for the numbers and what not. About 9:15 his assiantant Don would come in and start going over the computer report with him.
Man, talk about living the life. Here I was right behind the counter where it was all happening. It was not the the "First" moves like the Dust, but for a degenrate gambler, being in the Monday lottery, knowing whom moved on what and at what price, was priceless. On my end of the kingdom, I had info no one else had. Plus I learned how to manage it after awhile. There is value in knowing all that and playing/working your counter accordingly.
While all this is going on, everybody starts to gather. Its the ususal suspects themselves. Its a steady stream of hey, whats up, how did you do, did you see that...Its like a big family affair. Everyones got there clipboards and bankrolls. Bobby and Don are making the numbers, as I stand there with a clip board and pen ready to mark them down, so they could double check them.
In the mist of all this one Monday, time slowed way down. I was standing on the ledge by the boards looking over the runners and suddenly realized, these were the same guys I had been hanging out with for over a year + out on the streets. It was wierd. I was hyped to be taking the lottery bets and seeing positions the different groups were taking. By the same token, I was like, is this what I want to do? Cater to these people? Being one of the guys, I got the treatment, let me tell you. Theres demanding. And then theres over demanding. Its how it is. I was happy all the same. I was just running all over the place thats all. Bobby and Don asked me several times... Was I sure? Its how it is. Are you sure? It aint pretty. Standing on the ledge that day was when it really hit me, why they kept asking.
So, after getting the numbers together, my job was to fill them in on the board as Bobby called them out. This is thrilling stuff folks. You are writing down numbers, while in the background guys are writing down numbers furiously, marking there positions, with nothing but the sound of papers shuffling and Bobby calling out game numbers and lines. You got about 15-20 guys doing this and about another 10-15 scene haunters and onlookers. Once you draw the cards for postion, it really becomes fun.
Now you are in your chair taking the bets. You can listen, look and see whats going on at the same time. Invaribly the first or second person in line would take a number from the person right behind them or in the next line over. Things got tense then. All in all it takes a good 15 minutes to sort everyone thru and another 5 minutes for minor buybacks.
After that, everyone disappeares. Where did they go? To the Excalibur whom staggered there lottery 15 minutes behind ours and so were just finishing up. In the interim, we clean up, get the sheets restocked and what not, all in time for the guys whom were in the Excalibur Lottery, to wander right in and buy back everything essentially speaking. I am not kidding. Worse still, its the other half of the guys you hung out with, whom come in doing the betting.
It like hey whats up, let me get..., how did you do.. let me get.. did you see that...Alright, gotta go. And back across the street they would go, to see if they could pick up something, after our guys went over there and bought everything back.
This went on for a good half hour to 45 minutes. Guys just running in back and forth. This includes others not in either group that knew how to sit in the middle of it all and pick off half point and one point advantages. Not for a lot of money mind you, but some bottom feeders do WELL. By 11:30 it would calm down and you can look back at things.
What makes it really, really fun is that the rest of the day, a steady stream of customers come in playing there games. Not only for Monday night, but for next week. There is a certain kick you get when you know someone bought a bad number, or it moved 2 points, or when they made a good bet, or they give you some inside info, or do some little thing that over time shows you how the players lose long before they do or just how randomly they win all at the same time.
We all know about the Stardust Lottery, and very certainly the Sunday night lottery during football season, back in the days of old, when the Stardust was King.
But, very few know about the Monday Morning Lotteries that took place place the next day down the street. First at the Tropicana, with Bobby Davis running things. Then over to the Excalibur, where Sid Diamond was at the time.
Man was this ever an exciting event for me. I wasn't at the Dust, but Bobby had all the wise guy respect. They knew they could get playable numbers and we did cater to the runners. So everybody about 9:30 am starts to gather for a 10 O'Clock start.
Talk about fun. I would come in at 9, grab the team plaques and start setting up the rest of the board for the games that week. After that, I would set up my drawer and get the counters ready for the sheets and what not.
By 9:30 I was always pretty much done. I would go over and look over Bobbys shoulder, as he looked at the line reports from the night before. The report was just one long line of computer paper right out of the box. When he came in at 9, the first thing he did was turn on the computer to run the report. It took a awhile to run. Needed 2 boxes to print it all. While that was going on, he would pour over the computer and start making the sheets for the numbers and what not. About 9:15 his assiantant Don would come in and start going over the computer report with him.
Man, talk about living the life. Here I was right behind the counter where it was all happening. It was not the the "First" moves like the Dust, but for a degenrate gambler, being in the Monday lottery, knowing whom moved on what and at what price, was priceless. On my end of the kingdom, I had info no one else had. Plus I learned how to manage it after awhile. There is value in knowing all that and playing/working your counter accordingly.
While all this is going on, everybody starts to gather. Its the ususal suspects themselves. Its a steady stream of hey, whats up, how did you do, did you see that...Its like a big family affair. Everyones got there clipboards and bankrolls. Bobby and Don are making the numbers, as I stand there with a clip board and pen ready to mark them down, so they could double check them.
In the mist of all this one Monday, time slowed way down. I was standing on the ledge by the boards looking over the runners and suddenly realized, these were the same guys I had been hanging out with for over a year + out on the streets. It was wierd. I was hyped to be taking the lottery bets and seeing positions the different groups were taking. By the same token, I was like, is this what I want to do? Cater to these people? Being one of the guys, I got the treatment, let me tell you. Theres demanding. And then theres over demanding. Its how it is. I was happy all the same. I was just running all over the place thats all. Bobby and Don asked me several times... Was I sure? Its how it is. Are you sure? It aint pretty. Standing on the ledge that day was when it really hit me, why they kept asking.
So, after getting the numbers together, my job was to fill them in on the board as Bobby called them out. This is thrilling stuff folks. You are writing down numbers, while in the background guys are writing down numbers furiously, marking there positions, with nothing but the sound of papers shuffling and Bobby calling out game numbers and lines. You got about 15-20 guys doing this and about another 10-15 scene haunters and onlookers. Once you draw the cards for postion, it really becomes fun.
Now you are in your chair taking the bets. You can listen, look and see whats going on at the same time. Invaribly the first or second person in line would take a number from the person right behind them or in the next line over. Things got tense then. All in all it takes a good 15 minutes to sort everyone thru and another 5 minutes for minor buybacks.
After that, everyone disappeares. Where did they go? To the Excalibur whom staggered there lottery 15 minutes behind ours and so were just finishing up. In the interim, we clean up, get the sheets restocked and what not, all in time for the guys whom were in the Excalibur Lottery, to wander right in and buy back everything essentially speaking. I am not kidding. Worse still, its the other half of the guys you hung out with, whom come in doing the betting.
It like hey whats up, let me get..., how did you do.. let me get.. did you see that...Alright, gotta go. And back across the street they would go, to see if they could pick up something, after our guys went over there and bought everything back.
This went on for a good half hour to 45 minutes. Guys just running in back and forth. This includes others not in either group that knew how to sit in the middle of it all and pick off half point and one point advantages. Not for a lot of money mind you, but some bottom feeders do WELL. By 11:30 it would calm down and you can look back at things.
What makes it really, really fun is that the rest of the day, a steady stream of customers come in playing there games. Not only for Monday night, but for next week. There is a certain kick you get when you know someone bought a bad number, or it moved 2 points, or when they made a good bet, or they give you some inside info, or do some little thing that over time shows you how the players lose long before they do or just how randomly they win all at the same time.
The Sunday Night Lottery.
This ladies and gentleman is an event onto itself. It is the highlight of many peoples trip(s) to Vegas to just stand around and watch it all. The build up to it all, always starts the same.
After the 1 O'Clock games kick off the afternoons get long, quick. You got a bunch of people milling about in various stages of angst for the most part, mumbling to whomever how they lost a ticket in the last two minutes of the game.
As always, as we say behind the counter.
In any event, win or lose, all either bet out or rebet and are back to yelling at the tv's and playing the races in no time.
Invaribly around two o'clock, someone from the losing group, (you can tell by there slow walk) ask, when do the lines for next week come out? You just look up and go 5:30 sir, but inside, you are cracking up. Like you dont have enough going right now?
Let me tell you, NO YOU DONT. In short order, schedules start flying off the shelf and the sheets with the matchups are already gone. All 500 of them you just made, 15 MINUTES AGO.
People go from sweating games in the moment to HEY, I am an ODDSmaker, let me tell you what I make this, this and that. You guys should hear yourselves. Walk right up to the counter you do. By the time 5 rolls around most have themselves worked up into a frenzy from having made lines with there friends. Mostly on the games in the top 25 that will be on TV. Never did anyone ever come up and give us a line on all the games and hardly ever on an obscure one.
But as me and my man Doug Castenada would always say, thanks a lot, we appreciate that, well keep that in mind. We were the only ones willing to talk to you. The rest just nodded and smiled or ignored you.
In any event, the pace picks up quickly at 5. A ton of stuff goes on in the background before the lottery goes off. By 5, Robert and Joe would have the numbers set and then from there, you have to make up all the sheets, put all the numbers in the computer, as well as double check them. Not as easy as seems or looks, let me tell you. You cant have a mistake on the sheet or the board.
Meanwhile, out front, you have not only the 20 to 30 assorted runners and real time independents milling about, but everybody is hovering, just waiting for the sheets to come out. You really can cut the tension with a knife. People are actually sweating and everything. Its not something you want to see. Believe me.
By 5:20 the sheets are made, but we dont put them out until we are ready to call them out. Only the people in the lottery got them early. We would make like a thousand, bring them out and set them on the counter.
This really got people going. Once they see the sheets, its on. Pens start dissapearing quick and people look for all kinds of things to write on, so they can chart the line changes.
I call it, "The in the Moment Crowd". What they would do if they lived in Vegas, and bet on games for a living. They dream about living the life and here is there big chance, at the end of the weekend, no less.
Now after cutting the cards and drawing for postion, the height of the event is of course when either Robert or Joe would take take the mike and start calling out the numbers. I would grab the sheets and put them out and people would just SWARM the counter. We would make about 2000 thousand of those and be out almost a thousand by the time the run down was over and I sat down to take the bets. Unreal to see, let me tell you.
From there it was tense. In the lottery it was one play at a time, up to 5 plays, for the first people in line and we ran three windows. People would just listen intently as Joe called out the first few changes. Those are the big moves you know. This would go on for 20 minutes or so. Numbers moving left and right, make the average player want to get in there, bet, and grab what VALUE there is left, before the numbers move even more.
Here you got a group of sharps betting numbers to bad postions and people just standing in line waiting to take take em, trying to be on the inside of the move. Don't you just love it?
After the first round of the lottery, all hell breaks loose. People always talk about about the weekend morning rushes. Let me tell you, the after lottery rush, is equal to it and no one has ever talked about it.
OH MY GOD. Here you are sitting there, just have taken hundreds of thousnds in dollars in bets, and just the second after you have gotten your drawer straight and paper work signed, there are 10-20 people in your window going, give me uhh, give me uhhh.
Amazing shit. You would think the games are going off now or there planes that are leaving at 10-12 are leaving now, the way they act and stuff.
Everybody rushing to get there bets and parlays in before the line moves. Everyone thinks they have the advantage.
Little do you know, you are all betting the same things. We can see it on the computer. Its the games in the top 25, and, or are on TV, plus other games of whatever the media pays attention to ,of interest. You are to afraid to bet the rest. And when you do, it aint for much, and it never figures into the parlay and teaser exposure early reports either. The only exception is if one moved more than a few times in the lottery. Thats a hot game you know.
The reason I said first round of the lottery is because just about the time we clear the regular players out, here come the runners and assorted pros on a back sweep, to buy back numbers or solidify positions. This would set the numbers in all kinds of directions and send many scrambling.
This always amused us, because we knew the real moves were always in the second wave. Also, a lot of times there was a lot of buyback, so those that were patient and or knew the game, would just wait, and then buy in and set there positions. They may not have gotten the fresh number, but it will certainly look like it is as the week goes on most times.
The rest were bewildered and most had there wise guy moments shattered right there. There so called good numbers was for not. People would always try to bring the ticket back crying that the line had moved or they did not want that 4 to 7 team parlay anymore because of all the moves. Sorry, cant refund tickets after the line has moved.
After all that calmed down, it would be time for the half of the late game, and people would be abuzz again. This time you have mixture of halftime bettors and people betting next weeks games, as if they were going off now.
In addition the phone is ringing in the background, because we opened it for moves for the half and we let the sharps bet the numbers for next week as well. Thus we Hammer out the line even more right in front of you where you dont even see it.
This 2 and a half hour time period between 5 and 7:30 has never been talked about before like this. Its actually longer, but in terms of production, everything happens between 5 and 7:30 pm.
The lottery encompasses all of it because the public does particiapte and they do create sitiuations that can be taken advantage of, by both pro, jr pro or square alike. From the end of the lottery, till the half, both groups are betting hands over fist. Mind you, there are a lot of average 300-1000 bettors hitting your windows, so there money counts toward accumlation, just like the wise. Whomever gets the number first, gets it. Starting at a certain level, it is a race between the 300 average bet square and a full pop wise guy. Both groups are randomly flying to the windows at the same time.
The lottery is so much more than the sharps betting the games. Its about people, whom win, lose, or draw, have hope for next weeks games, have something new to talk about, have something to do on the plane ride home for some. Its about people whom do realize in way or another they were a part of it. They charted the moves. They chatted up some of the runners and pros. All particiapate in there own way. No one else is betting these games right now, but the people in the room. And they know it. They have numbers on games there friends at home wont have next weekend. They will even win a few of them at the good number, while a friend losees on the late move on the same game. Even the tickets they lose on will look sharp. There friends will envy them.
It is also about witnessing tradition and having a chance to be a part of it all.
From the average bettor whom did particiapate in the lottery, all the way down to the parlay and teaser players, whom scramble to get the good numbers onto there tickets.
For the handful of people in the room on any of those given Sundays, it truly was a lottery for all, one way or another.
This ladies and gentleman is an event onto itself. It is the highlight of many peoples trip(s) to Vegas to just stand around and watch it all. The build up to it all, always starts the same.
After the 1 O'Clock games kick off the afternoons get long, quick. You got a bunch of people milling about in various stages of angst for the most part, mumbling to whomever how they lost a ticket in the last two minutes of the game.
As always, as we say behind the counter.
In any event, win or lose, all either bet out or rebet and are back to yelling at the tv's and playing the races in no time.
Invaribly around two o'clock, someone from the losing group, (you can tell by there slow walk) ask, when do the lines for next week come out? You just look up and go 5:30 sir, but inside, you are cracking up. Like you dont have enough going right now?
Let me tell you, NO YOU DONT. In short order, schedules start flying off the shelf and the sheets with the matchups are already gone. All 500 of them you just made, 15 MINUTES AGO.
People go from sweating games in the moment to HEY, I am an ODDSmaker, let me tell you what I make this, this and that. You guys should hear yourselves. Walk right up to the counter you do. By the time 5 rolls around most have themselves worked up into a frenzy from having made lines with there friends. Mostly on the games in the top 25 that will be on TV. Never did anyone ever come up and give us a line on all the games and hardly ever on an obscure one.
But as me and my man Doug Castenada would always say, thanks a lot, we appreciate that, well keep that in mind. We were the only ones willing to talk to you. The rest just nodded and smiled or ignored you.
In any event, the pace picks up quickly at 5. A ton of stuff goes on in the background before the lottery goes off. By 5, Robert and Joe would have the numbers set and then from there, you have to make up all the sheets, put all the numbers in the computer, as well as double check them. Not as easy as seems or looks, let me tell you. You cant have a mistake on the sheet or the board.
Meanwhile, out front, you have not only the 20 to 30 assorted runners and real time independents milling about, but everybody is hovering, just waiting for the sheets to come out. You really can cut the tension with a knife. People are actually sweating and everything. Its not something you want to see. Believe me.
By 5:20 the sheets are made, but we dont put them out until we are ready to call them out. Only the people in the lottery got them early. We would make like a thousand, bring them out and set them on the counter.
This really got people going. Once they see the sheets, its on. Pens start dissapearing quick and people look for all kinds of things to write on, so they can chart the line changes.
I call it, "The in the Moment Crowd". What they would do if they lived in Vegas, and bet on games for a living. They dream about living the life and here is there big chance, at the end of the weekend, no less.
Now after cutting the cards and drawing for postion, the height of the event is of course when either Robert or Joe would take take the mike and start calling out the numbers. I would grab the sheets and put them out and people would just SWARM the counter. We would make about 2000 thousand of those and be out almost a thousand by the time the run down was over and I sat down to take the bets. Unreal to see, let me tell you.
From there it was tense. In the lottery it was one play at a time, up to 5 plays, for the first people in line and we ran three windows. People would just listen intently as Joe called out the first few changes. Those are the big moves you know. This would go on for 20 minutes or so. Numbers moving left and right, make the average player want to get in there, bet, and grab what VALUE there is left, before the numbers move even more.
Here you got a group of sharps betting numbers to bad postions and people just standing in line waiting to take take em, trying to be on the inside of the move. Don't you just love it?
After the first round of the lottery, all hell breaks loose. People always talk about about the weekend morning rushes. Let me tell you, the after lottery rush, is equal to it and no one has ever talked about it.
OH MY GOD. Here you are sitting there, just have taken hundreds of thousnds in dollars in bets, and just the second after you have gotten your drawer straight and paper work signed, there are 10-20 people in your window going, give me uhh, give me uhhh.
Amazing shit. You would think the games are going off now or there planes that are leaving at 10-12 are leaving now, the way they act and stuff.
Everybody rushing to get there bets and parlays in before the line moves. Everyone thinks they have the advantage.
Little do you know, you are all betting the same things. We can see it on the computer. Its the games in the top 25, and, or are on TV, plus other games of whatever the media pays attention to ,of interest. You are to afraid to bet the rest. And when you do, it aint for much, and it never figures into the parlay and teaser exposure early reports either. The only exception is if one moved more than a few times in the lottery. Thats a hot game you know.
The reason I said first round of the lottery is because just about the time we clear the regular players out, here come the runners and assorted pros on a back sweep, to buy back numbers or solidify positions. This would set the numbers in all kinds of directions and send many scrambling.
This always amused us, because we knew the real moves were always in the second wave. Also, a lot of times there was a lot of buyback, so those that were patient and or knew the game, would just wait, and then buy in and set there positions. They may not have gotten the fresh number, but it will certainly look like it is as the week goes on most times.
The rest were bewildered and most had there wise guy moments shattered right there. There so called good numbers was for not. People would always try to bring the ticket back crying that the line had moved or they did not want that 4 to 7 team parlay anymore because of all the moves. Sorry, cant refund tickets after the line has moved.
After all that calmed down, it would be time for the half of the late game, and people would be abuzz again. This time you have mixture of halftime bettors and people betting next weeks games, as if they were going off now.
In addition the phone is ringing in the background, because we opened it for moves for the half and we let the sharps bet the numbers for next week as well. Thus we Hammer out the line even more right in front of you where you dont even see it.
This 2 and a half hour time period between 5 and 7:30 has never been talked about before like this. Its actually longer, but in terms of production, everything happens between 5 and 7:30 pm.
The lottery encompasses all of it because the public does particiapte and they do create sitiuations that can be taken advantage of, by both pro, jr pro or square alike. From the end of the lottery, till the half, both groups are betting hands over fist. Mind you, there are a lot of average 300-1000 bettors hitting your windows, so there money counts toward accumlation, just like the wise. Whomever gets the number first, gets it. Starting at a certain level, it is a race between the 300 average bet square and a full pop wise guy. Both groups are randomly flying to the windows at the same time.
The lottery is so much more than the sharps betting the games. Its about people, whom win, lose, or draw, have hope for next weeks games, have something new to talk about, have something to do on the plane ride home for some. Its about people whom do realize in way or another they were a part of it. They charted the moves. They chatted up some of the runners and pros. All particiapate in there own way. No one else is betting these games right now, but the people in the room. And they know it. They have numbers on games there friends at home wont have next weekend. They will even win a few of them at the good number, while a friend losees on the late move on the same game. Even the tickets they lose on will look sharp. There friends will envy them.
It is also about witnessing tradition and having a chance to be a part of it all.
From the average bettor whom did particiapate in the lottery, all the way down to the parlay and teaser players, whom scramble to get the good numbers onto there tickets.
For the handful of people in the room on any of those given Sundays, it truly was a lottery for all, one way or another.
I was in that lottery for all that time and it was no big deal to me. You make it sound like something amazing was going on that everybody wanted to be part of.
The lottery was a joke and was filled with 6 guys betting for 1 person. That's all that entered the lottery. In reality there were only about 6 or 7 people betting on most mornings and on sunday there were about 60 guys betting for about 15 guys.
I can see by your non-stop hyping of your failure bookmakers that you have no respect for the average bettor who takes more of a risk than any of the frauds that would sign up for that lottery. 95% of them didn't even bet and just entered the lottery so they could add some middles for the day/week.
The only reason bettors entered the lottery was because of the bad openers the dust or anybody else would use. You know that the only bets made in any of these lotterys went for scalps or middles.
I like your posts, but what your posting about was silly crap. I know, I did it and probably made more bets at the stardust than anybody else except 1 person and you know who that is don't you?
The lottery was a joke and was filled with 6 guys betting for 1 person. That's all that entered the lottery. In reality there were only about 6 or 7 people betting on most mornings and on sunday there were about 60 guys betting for about 15 guys.
I can see by your non-stop hyping of your failure bookmakers that you have no respect for the average bettor who takes more of a risk than any of the frauds that would sign up for that lottery. 95% of them didn't even bet and just entered the lottery so they could add some middles for the day/week.
The only reason bettors entered the lottery was because of the bad openers the dust or anybody else would use. You know that the only bets made in any of these lotterys went for scalps or middles.
I like your posts, but what your posting about was silly crap. I know, I did it and probably made more bets at the stardust than anybody else except 1 person and you know who that is don't you?
What we dont understand.
I will start by saying Mr Know It All, your perspective on things, minus the harsh words, is shared by more than a few. So, from a historical perspective it is good that you speak for the angry ones. What you are are angry about we really dont know. We only cleaned up the mess, not created it. Further still, you participated in all thses "Fruads" as you call them. Out getting middles and scalps, just like everyone else. In furthrance, your doing a lot better than most, by far. You participate it in it all, but decry anyone else whom faclitates in any way, the ablity for others to do so.
As for failures, here is what we dont understand. Whom isn't to you? You do not discriminate. You call everyone a fruad, thief, and whatever other word of the day you can come up with.
All in all we feel like we are in really good company.
So for once, dont avoid us and answer these questions, right here in open fourm.
Whom do you respect? Either offshore or in Vegas. What operation, save for Pinnacle, does it the right way. Who gets the Seal of Approval?
Better still, What is the right way?
For once, just one time, answer these questions to all you have called faliures, frauds and thiefs on both sides of the ocean.
Who stands up to your high standards?
I will start by saying Mr Know It All, your perspective on things, minus the harsh words, is shared by more than a few. So, from a historical perspective it is good that you speak for the angry ones. What you are are angry about we really dont know. We only cleaned up the mess, not created it. Further still, you participated in all thses "Fruads" as you call them. Out getting middles and scalps, just like everyone else. In furthrance, your doing a lot better than most, by far. You participate it in it all, but decry anyone else whom faclitates in any way, the ablity for others to do so.
As for failures, here is what we dont understand. Whom isn't to you? You do not discriminate. You call everyone a fruad, thief, and whatever other word of the day you can come up with.
All in all we feel like we are in really good company.
So for once, dont avoid us and answer these questions, right here in open fourm.
Whom do you respect? Either offshore or in Vegas. What operation, save for Pinnacle, does it the right way. Who gets the Seal of Approval?
Better still, What is the right way?
For once, just one time, answer these questions to all you have called faliures, frauds and thiefs on both sides of the ocean.
Who stands up to your high standards?
I love it when women win. A rambling story.
This random post is sparked by Harringtons wife.
Of course most men whom come to Vegas to bet on sports have there girlfriends and or wives in tow. They really dont want to bring them mind you, but just try coming here without them.
In any event with this crowd you get one of three things most times. Women with no patience, whom rush the men to make there bets so they can go already.
Women whom are resigned to the men running around like crazy for two hours, doing in Vegas, exactly what they do at home. I remember in the early 90's a woman positivly snapped on her boyfriend in the Excalibur book for acting like that and ignoring her. Everybody was howling after she got done. This is the worst group by far as they sit around mostly, impatiently bored and unhappy.
Then there is the third group of women whom all of a sudden decide they want to make some bets. They are complete fun. Double so when they win.
You get anywhere from, I am from .... and I want to bet ....on them. To women trying to figure out what the big deal is. So they run around and do what the men do, mostly bothering them all the way, asking this question and that.
Mostly though they become maverick and decide they are going to show everybody it aint rocket science. More often than not, they would win. Let me tell you, they let everybody know it.
The fun group was always the true non bettors whom happen to be in Vegas and bet there team. Winning a bet on them is a big deal for a person whom does not bet. They go around telling everyone too, double so the women. You are always happy for this group, because you can see what its all about.
Having a little fun, betting a few dollars on your team and winning. The thrill all expiernce when first getting into this, is apparant on there faces.
The other fun group were the women who rubbed in the mens faces. Oh man do they ever. The one I remember most was when this girl hit a 20 dollar 6 teamer. Her boyfriend was a regular from Cali whom just happen to bring her that weekend, he was so so on his picks, but like most he could not control himself when here and so mostly lost.
This particular weekend he was buried when she hit and it was on. She went up and down the counter telling any and everyone, Mr Man the handicapper here, the big sports bettor whom cant win for shit, let his girlfriend walk in here and hit a 6 teamer. Folks she hit it clean no sweat style. We made her a copy of the ticket to show everyone and she did. We were laughing our asses off behind the counter. She would not let up. She must have been really frustrared with him.
Of course you know what happened next. Yep, you got it, she decided she was a capper and thus started making straight bets with her winnings. She sashayed up to the counter the rest of the weekend making bets and mostly winning. Her boyfriend was not happy. By the time Sunday night came, he was ready to go. To his credit, he took it well, but man was she brutal.
Thats the best example. But I can assure you, when the girl won and the guy lost, all heard about it.
It works the other way too. Dont get me wrong. He would win and she would lose, she would get mad and blame the guy. Worse still, the guys would not give them money to bet more and that was a nasty scene in the making if the guy did not relent. Relenting is a bad idea in all cases
I remember one time a situation just like that. The guy won on Saturday and was making his bets on Sunday when his wife jumped in and decided she wanted to bet a 10 dollar 8 teamer. He did not want to let her do it, but the you aint getting none look, if you dont do this look showed up, so he relented. BAD MOVE.
The very classic her teams won the games, but did not cover, happened on 6 of 8 teams on her card. The other two won, so of course she thought she won her ticket.
NOT. There was no talking to her. They lived in Summerlin and they had a monster argument to the effect, he did not tell he how things worked. In addition the teams won so she was adamant she get paid on the ticket. So down they came just for us to tell her the same thing, just for her to turn around and accuse of us of the same things she did him. She was out numbered so she eventually quit, but we did not see the guy for awhile thats for sure.
In the end, we always rooted for the Girl. Guys are boring and know it alls. They act like they win all the time and know everything. Girls however have the right attitude and in the end they dont take themselves that serisouly. They mostly just want to take there digs at MR MAN and win a few more dollars betting on games than him while in Vegas
Always fun to watch the dynamics between the sexes play out and the old race and sportsbook counter.
Like you would not believe.
This random post is sparked by Harringtons wife.
Of course most men whom come to Vegas to bet on sports have there girlfriends and or wives in tow. They really dont want to bring them mind you, but just try coming here without them.
In any event with this crowd you get one of three things most times. Women with no patience, whom rush the men to make there bets so they can go already.
Women whom are resigned to the men running around like crazy for two hours, doing in Vegas, exactly what they do at home. I remember in the early 90's a woman positivly snapped on her boyfriend in the Excalibur book for acting like that and ignoring her. Everybody was howling after she got done. This is the worst group by far as they sit around mostly, impatiently bored and unhappy.
Then there is the third group of women whom all of a sudden decide they want to make some bets. They are complete fun. Double so when they win.
You get anywhere from, I am from .... and I want to bet ....on them. To women trying to figure out what the big deal is. So they run around and do what the men do, mostly bothering them all the way, asking this question and that.
Mostly though they become maverick and decide they are going to show everybody it aint rocket science. More often than not, they would win. Let me tell you, they let everybody know it.
The fun group was always the true non bettors whom happen to be in Vegas and bet there team. Winning a bet on them is a big deal for a person whom does not bet. They go around telling everyone too, double so the women. You are always happy for this group, because you can see what its all about.
Having a little fun, betting a few dollars on your team and winning. The thrill all expiernce when first getting into this, is apparant on there faces.
The other fun group were the women who rubbed in the mens faces. Oh man do they ever. The one I remember most was when this girl hit a 20 dollar 6 teamer. Her boyfriend was a regular from Cali whom just happen to bring her that weekend, he was so so on his picks, but like most he could not control himself when here and so mostly lost.
This particular weekend he was buried when she hit and it was on. She went up and down the counter telling any and everyone, Mr Man the handicapper here, the big sports bettor whom cant win for shit, let his girlfriend walk in here and hit a 6 teamer. Folks she hit it clean no sweat style. We made her a copy of the ticket to show everyone and she did. We were laughing our asses off behind the counter. She would not let up. She must have been really frustrared with him.
Of course you know what happened next. Yep, you got it, she decided she was a capper and thus started making straight bets with her winnings. She sashayed up to the counter the rest of the weekend making bets and mostly winning. Her boyfriend was not happy. By the time Sunday night came, he was ready to go. To his credit, he took it well, but man was she brutal.
Thats the best example. But I can assure you, when the girl won and the guy lost, all heard about it.
It works the other way too. Dont get me wrong. He would win and she would lose, she would get mad and blame the guy. Worse still, the guys would not give them money to bet more and that was a nasty scene in the making if the guy did not relent. Relenting is a bad idea in all cases
I remember one time a situation just like that. The guy won on Saturday and was making his bets on Sunday when his wife jumped in and decided she wanted to bet a 10 dollar 8 teamer. He did not want to let her do it, but the you aint getting none look, if you dont do this look showed up, so he relented. BAD MOVE.
The very classic her teams won the games, but did not cover, happened on 6 of 8 teams on her card. The other two won, so of course she thought she won her ticket.
NOT. There was no talking to her. They lived in Summerlin and they had a monster argument to the effect, he did not tell he how things worked. In addition the teams won so she was adamant she get paid on the ticket. So down they came just for us to tell her the same thing, just for her to turn around and accuse of us of the same things she did him. She was out numbered so she eventually quit, but we did not see the guy for awhile thats for sure.
In the end, we always rooted for the Girl. Guys are boring and know it alls. They act like they win all the time and know everything. Girls however have the right attitude and in the end they dont take themselves that serisouly. They mostly just want to take there digs at MR MAN and win a few more dollars betting on games than him while in Vegas
Always fun to watch the dynamics between the sexes play out and the old race and sportsbook counter.
Like you would not believe.
This was the begining of it all as I like back at it now.
This is a story I wrote on MW last January involving the great Gene Mayday himself. At the time I still had proffesional aspirations, but as we all know, I got distracted along the way and this is really the first story in the 90's series.
I will add here that to Gene's great credit after he would not hire me to be a dealer, he did let me interview him for a good 45 minutes on casino operations and what not. I am the type whom always wants to know how people manage things and what not and he was very patient with my questions and he answered them all. I even made him laugh with some of them as I wondered how he dealt with all the paperwork and compliance that was in place at that time. Newly in place at that.
Now there is no way I have stories like you guys but many here know that my stories take place in my baby bear years and know just how naive I was. This would just about be my earliest one as it takes place in the summer of 1990 when I lived in some apartments off of Lacienuga and Deckow. (Ring any bells anyone) It involves Gene Mayday and Little Ceasers since from that neighborhood that was the only book worth going too even though the Barbary was closer. In any event save for a few world series games I had not really even remotely bet baseball the day I first walked in there in late May. I was supposed to have gone to a job interview but 2 straight busses
did not stop to pick me up and so off to Lil Ceasers I went as I had 50 bucks in my pocket and I figured I will make money betting games instead.
Stop laughing.
So in I walk, look around, take a look at the boards and grabbed some sheets. Haveing no clue how I really want to bet 10 dollars and haveing questions I walk up to the counter and talk to the first person I see who just happens to be standing there quietly looking out at things. So after about 15 minutes of explaining all those funny numbers on the sheet he stands by and watches as I make 2, 5 dollar parlay bets. People I had no idea who I was talking to at the time. This went on for a couple of days as seemingly the only person who worked there that had patience for a 5 dollar no nothing bettor was Gene. The rest came off jaded and impatient. I was a curious type back then and had questions. I swear he was the only one who ever answered me and did not make me feel bad for asking at the same time. So about 3 days in and 40 dollars down in this expierence I was talking to one of the few regualrs who talked to me in that short time and said something that made him say thats Gene Mayday the owner of the place while giving me a highly quizzical look at the same time. I said really. He goes you did not know who you were talking to? I go no. He could not believe it. He couldn't, I couldn't!
So let me get this straight. A legendary bookmakers who's name you have read about in the papers since the very first day you came to go to college in August of 87 actually really works the book as well as run the casino also has time for someone like me. Thats not what legends do, right? I was thunderstruck but highly impressed, I really was. He simply made his other employees look really bad in that light and I am sorry if I have offended anyone here who may have been one. I did not hang out there for long as I was broke and did need a job which I did eventually get.
To add to this, all I am sure will remember he ran adds for novice dealers who were trying to break into the buisness. So of course I put in my application for the job. I get dressed for an interview as I felt the casino manager would being doing the hiring. I get there, they put me in a group with some other guys and the next thing I know Gene comes out to address us. My eyes came out of my head, I swear. You do the interviewing too I ask him and he goes sure I do.
And the training and so and so on. Man was I ever naive. He was the very first one to tell me I did not belong there. He knew I was still in college at that point. He simply put his hand on my shoulder and said stay in school, do the right thing and you will be ok. This is not the life you want to live. How did he know? I was not caught up at that time and still straight laced. I did not get caught up till December of that year when I wound up at the Tropicana. How did he see it? How did he possibly know, when I didn't. I have always wondered that. I really really have.
This is a story I wrote on MW last January involving the great Gene Mayday himself. At the time I still had proffesional aspirations, but as we all know, I got distracted along the way and this is really the first story in the 90's series.
I will add here that to Gene's great credit after he would not hire me to be a dealer, he did let me interview him for a good 45 minutes on casino operations and what not. I am the type whom always wants to know how people manage things and what not and he was very patient with my questions and he answered them all. I even made him laugh with some of them as I wondered how he dealt with all the paperwork and compliance that was in place at that time. Newly in place at that.
Now there is no way I have stories like you guys but many here know that my stories take place in my baby bear years and know just how naive I was. This would just about be my earliest one as it takes place in the summer of 1990 when I lived in some apartments off of Lacienuga and Deckow. (Ring any bells anyone) It involves Gene Mayday and Little Ceasers since from that neighborhood that was the only book worth going too even though the Barbary was closer. In any event save for a few world series games I had not really even remotely bet baseball the day I first walked in there in late May. I was supposed to have gone to a job interview but 2 straight busses
did not stop to pick me up and so off to Lil Ceasers I went as I had 50 bucks in my pocket and I figured I will make money betting games instead.
Stop laughing.
So in I walk, look around, take a look at the boards and grabbed some sheets. Haveing no clue how I really want to bet 10 dollars and haveing questions I walk up to the counter and talk to the first person I see who just happens to be standing there quietly looking out at things. So after about 15 minutes of explaining all those funny numbers on the sheet he stands by and watches as I make 2, 5 dollar parlay bets. People I had no idea who I was talking to at the time. This went on for a couple of days as seemingly the only person who worked there that had patience for a 5 dollar no nothing bettor was Gene. The rest came off jaded and impatient. I was a curious type back then and had questions. I swear he was the only one who ever answered me and did not make me feel bad for asking at the same time. So about 3 days in and 40 dollars down in this expierence I was talking to one of the few regualrs who talked to me in that short time and said something that made him say thats Gene Mayday the owner of the place while giving me a highly quizzical look at the same time. I said really. He goes you did not know who you were talking to? I go no. He could not believe it. He couldn't, I couldn't!
So let me get this straight. A legendary bookmakers who's name you have read about in the papers since the very first day you came to go to college in August of 87 actually really works the book as well as run the casino also has time for someone like me. Thats not what legends do, right? I was thunderstruck but highly impressed, I really was. He simply made his other employees look really bad in that light and I am sorry if I have offended anyone here who may have been one. I did not hang out there for long as I was broke and did need a job which I did eventually get.
To add to this, all I am sure will remember he ran adds for novice dealers who were trying to break into the buisness. So of course I put in my application for the job. I get dressed for an interview as I felt the casino manager would being doing the hiring. I get there, they put me in a group with some other guys and the next thing I know Gene comes out to address us. My eyes came out of my head, I swear. You do the interviewing too I ask him and he goes sure I do.
And the training and so and so on. Man was I ever naive. He was the very first one to tell me I did not belong there. He knew I was still in college at that point. He simply put his hand on my shoulder and said stay in school, do the right thing and you will be ok. This is not the life you want to live. How did he know? I was not caught up at that time and still straight laced. I did not get caught up till December of that year when I wound up at the Tropicana. How did he see it? How did he possibly know, when I didn't. I have always wondered that. I really really have.
