Sportsbook stories from the 90's. From degenrate to mature degenrate.

[Sugarbear]

Lets take a look at the main issue. Shutting it down McCain style.

Please remeber this is coming back in fits. What I am begining to realize is that a lot of things happened and went back and forth that are a blur much like todays stuff is. Its really no different only the stakes are much higher now and much about the longer term future for all involved on both sides of the ocean will be determined of the BoS sitituation unlike the Vegas crusade which gave us the not inteneded to violate laws phrase. Plus the one that burns me to this day when they dropped it on us was the we have to set up diversion programs for problems gamblers as well as be able to identify and assist these persons in there time of trouble. We do this becuase we are a responsible community that cares about its citziens and do what we can to help because it takes a community of people to assist problem gamblers in there time of need and never is it somebody elses problem. Open wide and swallow that one if you want to keep you seat in this buisness. Could you do it? This folks believe it or not is a compromise or as it is known a "save face measure "that the whole gaming industry in Nevada had to swallow because there was nothing Washington could do to us in the end to shut us down and of course they just have to have the last word as we all know.



Now what set up this compromise in the first place goes back to the first half of the go around when it was really not a debate whether they were voting us illegal. The point spread stuff came a little later in the picture. McCain and Co were convinced that our popualarity was fueling the offshores and it was us corrupting America so we must be stopped or it would grow out of control.
At some point he uses the A St scandal but I am sure thats in 99 than in the football 97 and into the march madness of 98 I am reffering to now.


They continued to push supression.( Sound familiar?) If they cant see they wont desire it is the prevailing mentality.(seems familiar) They argued the attraction of it was to much to resist and gave rise to rouge bookmakers overseas trying to cash on being like us. So die we must was the hardcore mentality and they did not let up.(Sound familiar?) Only they forgot to tell everybody they were us as it was the ones from Vegas they chased out there to begin with plus the sharpest of the all, JC who went on his own accord I think.


The problem is with banning sportsbetting in Vegas is two things. One it gets people into the casino so you bring much bigger dogs to the fight whom they could not just run over and two the central pointspread argument went to first amendmant stuff as well as Vegas is the police force not the enemy angle. If you lose us you lose the people thats know whats going on and then you have problems you really cant control. Of course they didn't buy it. If the apple were not so shiny people wouldn't want to eat it. They cant come to Vegas everyday but they can bet online everyday and you fuel that desire.
Therfore you must be eliminated so we can save the childern and our american values.


Now mind you I am focusing on Joe Lupo and Robert Walker whom was at the Mirage as they were brought to power by the feds and happen to be at the two mainstream hotels that everybody wanted to go to. Art Manteris is the promient third guy and those three as well as several others from the books and the casinos beat that mentality back at kept them at bay quite nicely.


So much so it became a draw and so since they were not going to win they decided to change tatics. Not that they were giving up mind you. They offered a truly unacceptable out to relieve us our problems and make them go away.

Now the Federal excise tax is one quarter of one percent in Nevada which
the casinos pay. Since Washington was not going to be able to shut us down
as easily as they thought they decided they would raise the excise tax and we could buy our way out so to speak. They wanted to raise it to 1 percent if I remeber correctly but maybe just up to a half. In any event the ROOF came of the STATE of Nevada on that one. It was flat out on then.

It went from ban to ok then you should pay more taxes to us for the privlidge of doing buisness in this country.This is money that can be used to.....
Faster than fast it seems all kind of studys came out to support this and how much, where it would go etc. A huge debate ensued as now all the behind the scenes particpants were out in front on this one as it was fought in public. It went from closing books to costing corparations millions extra to have a book just to get people to Vegas and into the casino. All this because some guys in the 4 major sports leauge office dont want anyone putting point spreads on there games or betting them. (BOO HOO HOO.)


Thing is folks everyone was all in for the higher tax thing and were denzied over it. The corps used the ususal arguments to fight back but the biggest was the the extortion type angle that was carefully persued. The Gov went from ban to save the kids to pay a higher sin tax and we will look the other way. Now thats not politicaly correct what I just said but thats what it came down to. I do not know what was said behind behind the scenes but after a long strong front on this, Washington gave way. Public opinion seeped in and had something to do with it but there was more to it for sure.


So again another draw and really we won but no that cant happen now can it folks? No, no it cant in our society so they struck back with in the end...You can use a little kids voice here if you like. A big crybaby one.


You guys dont care about anyone. You do all this advertising to bring people in, you take there money and then turn your backs on them. You offer no assistance and contribute to the ills of society with your greedy bloodsucking ways.These things are damaging to a society and you do nothing to adress it.
Sound familiar?

Incredules is all I can say. Complete dismay. It did not go over well and of course we shot back its not our responsblity to police peoples actions we just take the bets and enforce the rules. In short what they do with there money when betting or what they do afterwards in none of our concern or buisness.


WRONG THING TO SAY OR COME ACROSS AS. Now in the politicaly correct Clinton administration NEVER was it ever an option on any subject to say its someone elses problem. Huge no, no for all and any there. Responsible communitys help there brothers and sisters when they can to make the society better for the whole. Say what you want about hippies but they were kids of the 50's and early 60's when that mentality and belief were at there
height.


So what you got in the end was the diversion programs. I remember the Joe coming down from the meeting that decided the way things would go and put it behind us. All I will say is he was not happy and I lost it. I cant even lie.


We have to do what? We all said to him. We have to provide assistance to problem gamblers and learn how to identify them. How are we supposed to that? We are going to start by putting out cards with toll free numbers people can call for help as well as teach everyone strategys to identify and handle those in need. He let us vent for about 10 minutes and then he snapped to and shut it down as that kind of behavior is strictly not approved.
You always go with the theme of the day in a regulatory world. You reapeat all the buzz words, look concerned and never say anything outside the status quo. You never break.


Now while there is more to the story I will bring to you from another perspective the crusade against Vegas netted exactly 2 things over three and a half years time.


1.This information is for news matter only and is not to be used to violate in any local, state or federal law and 2 the diversion programs plus 75 percent of the lingo to show concern a responsible member of the gaming community
shows when adressing any gaming issue.


Thats it. All for what? Because the NFL, MLB, NBA AND THE NHL dont want people betting on there games thats what.


All that demonization for that? Thats it. Buisness as usual. It nver stopped a thing and caused many to go thru things just to try and keep a job a survive that no one would wish on there worse enemy. All so some idiot who is one of the nations laughing stocks right now can try and get elected president.

GTFO.

 

[INSIDEMAN]

Hey guys........Ive been Lurking around this site for some time now..

When you guys talk about Eugene Nolan ? Is it Eugene from LA ? And he has a brother also...

I worked for a big outfit out of NY in the 80's and early 90's and we moved games for all the big guys....I think eugenes is a guy by the code name we called Tiger.........

These guys were very sharp players........Tiger would send us guys in the office smoke turkeys for the holidays...

If anyone here personaly knows them give them my regards.......

they knew me as The "CHUBBY" office..

 

[Chester]

Chubby

Hey Chubby when you used to call the office that I worked for I would tell you; "You're late its already moved" you'd hang up and call back and say thanks. I will see "Tiger" when I go back next time for a visit and be sure to tell him HELLO from you.Take care and hope all is well for you and yours, man has it ever been a long time.

 

[INSIDEMAN]

Chester.......You must have been taking a small pop from us......Because we were the first to get the plays....We hit the big guys first.......But then again we would buy back the overage from the guys who either moved too fast or too much........Often this would lead to not knowing what side we were really playing or whether or not we were just playing "numbers" and earning the commish..

 

[Sugarbear]

INSIDEMAN]Chester.......You must have been taking a small pop from us......Because we were the first to get the plays....We hit the big guys first.......But then again we would buy back the overage from the guys who either moved too fast or too much........Often this would lead to not knowing what side we were really playing or whether or not we were just playing "numbers" and earning the commish..


You were just playing numbers and earning the commish.

I would not know you but I am sure I know people who do as there were plenty of people from the "Office" at the Dust in my days. Do you know Preston?


Contrary to popular belief everybody the demise is not the demise everyone thinks of it as. Now while I have shown many left on there own and more were forced out, the strong groups never went anywhere. They instead did what true wise guys do and simply adjusted to the new ways.
Now they didn't like it to much because they had to do say three loads of laundry to get down on a certain number and it took 10-15 minutes in the way numbers move back and forth but they did get down for what they wanted in the end. In the old days it was a one shot deal. What pisses the VOG off is there expenses grew in the crackdown days as some did rain it in but in turn had to employee more people to get down on anything in the first place. As the books became more so did there expenses but they stayed anyway and just bet more to make up for it. The "Offices" never closed at any time for the strong ones and they continued to do in the open what they had always done in the open.

The only difference in the end was that the amounts they played for after a certain threshold was crossed got recorded on paper. That is all regulation is in the end. Recording on paper the transactions of the day
so the goverment can stick its nose in and keep an eye on you.

Dont believe it for a second. They felt three things would come of what is called regulation 6A. One the wise would flee because they did not want there name on stuff once they passed 10,000 dollars in bets. WRONG.


There had always been runners and so now there were more. So now instead of dropping 20 G's on a game at one place they bet 7 3 dimes bets all over the place and kept on stepping. They didn't like it but save for Billy Walters and Baxter they were left alone. When is the last time you heard anything about them really? Not a tax evasion case of note or more correctly an attempt to has ever been bought against anyone who is a pro bettor or anyone who had crews out there. (Maybe Artie and Co but a lot of charges before taxes were MUCH bigger problems)

2. They felt the scaled down amounts were to small for the wise to deal with so they would just have to go back to the streets to get down what they want. WRONG. One, never did they leave the streets and were getting down there the whole time eyes were on the strip. Two see above. They just adjusted folks. They felt the combined two would not make it worth the different syndicates time and that they would be to lazy to work within those restrictions and just go back to the streets and dissappear. Which is what they wanted. The Feds dont want to lock people up they just want them to be invisible and quiet about things that are not approved for them to do. Does this sound familair?

Please note it is the True Old Guards fault this suppression thing came about in the first place. They never checked themselves and as the years went on and the Feds got closer they just became more brazen. There is a reason why the feds dont take taunting from us. After we won a landmark decision in the supreme court in 1973 the wise in this country in a picture gave the Feds the finger for 14 years straight until RICO was passed. The Vegas Old Guard openly laughed at them for years as they watched at Little Ceasers the Dust and other places make there bets and conducted buisness as ususal. The Feds could do nothing as no real laws were broken directly in front of them and there were no laws for what they did't like them doing to arrest them on. What they could arrest them on was like a badge of honor for whomever and in the 70's arrest made the news and made Vegas that more of an attraction to come to.


There was a time for a long time that people came to Vegas for 2 things. The all you can eat buffet and they hoped to see some underworld criminal types walking around. To the Vegas Old Guards great credit they gave them what they wanted. When the tourist came to town they played nice with them and never did they feel threatened or like they were not going to get paid. They kept the bad stuff in the back of the house and as an instituion played there part to keep the mystique going and continue to make there money. That and people did come to see them and rub elbows for a minute or two with them. In there minds it was the least they could do to make the customer happy.


As hardcore as they were and the things they could have done to people, it was no big deal to them because it was simply good for buisness and the best thing to do for there community.


The greatest single tradgedy of the internet offshore world the true old guard birthed is the fact that the offshore places in the 10 year history have flagrant disregard and direspect for there customer which 90 percent take for granted and in no way really care to do whats best for the community or at least do what it takes to keep our customer base feeling safe and wanting to spend with us. If nothing else the last thing should be tatamount and its not.


Its quietly killing them everybody and one of the principal reasons you dont hear from them half as much as you should. Double so in times like these. They are watching a lifetimes worth of work, running away and saccrifice go right down the drain. All over greed in the end. Plain ole simple greed. Not that they weren't but they controlled it and thats the key.


3. They thought they would dissappear in greater numbers than they did here from the strip. WRONG. In truth they never went anywhere
Scotty Schettler is the one who left. In the end his being blackballed allowed many on both sides of the counter to walk away with there good name, reputations and for those who quite couldn't they did have a chance to clean up and either move into the background or get a job and try to survive. As long as he was around the others were in limbo. Even after those who retired in the late 80's or dissapreaed by 91 there was still a large crowd left and while the Feds were dismayed the rest did not fold there tent up they were left alone because the guy who made betting on sports cool and fun was gone.

Do you see how it started and why that became the Fed policy? Keep a low pro and you are good to go.


The problem with the suppresion/hide angle is that it is being driven by the same people whom were watching Vegas in the 70's. Those agents are median 58-62 today and are now the BIG BOSSES and have never forgotten the fuck yous go get a real job you sorry sons of bitches why dont you leave us alone talk they endured. Many of them they chased and watched are out on the islands right now doing the same things as always, making more money than ever and knowing that even though they live in third world countries they got away with all. Meanwhile there opposite numbers are still a few years from retirment and there nice pensions for chasing sportsbettors around the globe. I hope it was worth it.


Until they retire and or the true old guard effectivly dies its how its going to be. In the end its personal and they are using there disiples to make sure it stays that way.


I did not know all that was coming out but if you loop my last 3 stories together with this one you can roughly see how we got to this point today.

 

[Sugarbear]

Why didn't they start with Vegas first? Things that dont make sense.

So now let me get this McCain for President courtesy of the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL usuing the tool of demonization of the state of Nevadas gaming ecomny and its citzens straight. Because Jay Cohen refused to comply with the four major sports leauge order to cease and decist they called there friends at the Department of Justice and had them selves empowered thru the vehicle of Tom Rubin to go after him and then Vegas.

Two things are bothering me.

Where did the four leauges get the idea they could do such a thing on there own in the first place? Also who prepared and issued the order?


Before stepping in and helping did the DOJ question the 4 leauges about there authority to do this on there own without calling first or was the a agreement/conspriacy before hand for them to do so and then come to them looking like victims who need help. Hmmm. The DOJ just loves to help victims and protect americas family values now dont they.


I say this because to start on Vegas direct without cause would not fly but once you are prusuing a fugitive of the law on behalf of corprate citzens who are concerned for the childern and families of America who are at danger from an illegal criminal enterprise everything else becomes fair game also. So Vegas gets neatly wrapped in the package and slipped by everyone without notice. Slick Willy at work move right there. Dont you think?

They were trying to kill two birds with one stone and this was there plan to try and do it. I think McCain surprised them. He jumped in , ran with it and did a better job at it than them. They however did not respect him and saw him as a two way bet. If he got the nomination and won then its well hey buddy whats going on. If he loses its hey we fought the fight against the illegal enterprises and McCain would have done most of the dirty work while they drafted behind him. Which is what happened. They could not have dreamed that part up and used him to a T. A big fat T at ThaT.



So was it a conspriacy from jump or did the leagues really believe they had that kind of power over a person in another country whom was breaking no laws there with little more than a state issued or pivate firm cease and decist order?



What should I believe? I really dont know. What about you?

 

[Sugarbear]

The truth about preseason. There is NO such thing.

It all started in the first preseason I worked at the Tropicana in 92. After a couple of days of training the preseason arrived and there were about three games on the card the day I first worked behind the counter taking football bets. I was excited. The big day had arrived. I thought I was ready.


In no way was I ready for that. Oh my god. It had to be a Saturday because people were all over the place out of nowhere and demanding everything. My first rush Bobby Davis stood right next to me the whole time it seemed as people seemingly flyed at we in a rush to get there bets in before kickoff.
That was just the first one for the 4:30/5pm games. I was out of breath afterwards. I was like damn, WTF. Bobby just luaghed at me as I tried to get my mess of a drawer cleaned up. He tried to warn me how different things were on the other side of the counter once football started and that I would start to see things as they really are. Man did I ever.


You guys should see yourselves. OMG. I was like am I that impatient? Do I always wait till the last minute to bet. Do I demand this and that even when its right in front of me. It is quite an eye opening expierence my brothers and sisters. You go from demanding to be demanded to.


So let me get this straight. I BEGGED my way in for this? IT was only THE begining of the PRESEASON!!! The begining of AUGUST no less. There is a world of difference between the two sides of the counter. Bobby tried to warn me. It makes you think about things. Like can you handle being treated like shit the rest of your aspiring career. FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE COUNTER?
Its what it comes down to folks. No matter how far up the latter you go. Believe me when I tell you.


So many times over the years people have said to me they would love to come out to Las Vegas, be a ticket writer and just live this life out here like its something romantic. They will start there and work there way up.


Well you better think about it. You go from being catered to by them, to being one of them who caters just to keep a player playing and losing in your place instead of theres. Its what it comes down to in the end. In this society the whores do make the pimps work hard for there money. Thats both sides of the counter. The Feds are no different than you. Except the Feds never lose. Got it.


It is not a glamourous life nor is there anything romantic about it. Careful what you wish for. It may just come true and you will find out just like me.



Now of course this did not deter me as mystified and all as I was. The realities of working behind the counter and all you have to be aware of is more than you can imagine.


In any event by the time I show up at the Dust I think I am ready to go. Ready to go back into the street because three days after I start, baseball goes on strike. One of the saddest days of my career. All were lost looking at the boards and TVs not knowing what to do. For the old men it was a crushing blow. The preseason could not come fast enough that year. Let me tell you.


I was not ready for that either. That first Saturday came with like three or four night games and people went bonkers. Positivly BONKERS. The air was fresh again. All were walking around on edge, they just couldn't wait. It was something to see. I was taking bets on the sports side essentially for the first time that day as well as taking horses which we did not have at the Trop.


Doing a combo of the two under a full fledge all the games go at the same time rush is overwhelming but I handled it well. It showed I had expierence in crunch time but it was unreal. Preseason what preseason? There is no such thing. When the pigskin hits the air the people hit the ground running. Do not let anyone ever tell you any different.


In all my years has it ever been any differnt. Its just not preseason bets either. All the popular magazine team bets show up as well. That includes over and unders as well as all futures. The worlds foremost experts back there knowledge with there money in an amazing criss cross that makes dealing with random exposure factor a tricky proposition. Random exposure factor simply states that some of those crosses on the various cards and other things will make it through and create foward pressure on games in the future. Almost all tie any given week of the preseason into the first set of college games to really go as well as well as cross whats availiable the first week seprately, just in case.


Your book(s) are going thru this right now and its a harrowing time of year early on because the accumlation is decidely one sided. You have to decide at every turn how to adjust back and get you guys to cross back over and knock yourselves out. You must protect the integrity of your teaser exposure while you are doing it also. It hangs over your head like you cant believe.
The first set of college games to go puts real time pressure on the book that first week because you have a 4 week accumaltion of things to knock out at a wide spectrum of numbers. Since all tickets are winners before they lose and you dont know the losers from shinola, it makes for a very tense time.


What preseason? I dont see no preseason back here. There is no such thing.
The behavior is no different. The lines are no longer or shorter. The demands are always the same. I want it right now! Whats taking so long! Can I get more time on that game it hasn't started yet! Let me get uhh, uhhh, uhh how many teams is that so far. NONE. UHH is not a TEAM. Oh and if you think people cn fill out parlay cards, THINK AGAIN. OMG. Lets not forget how to count how many teams you have, how much you bet on each ticket, if you remember to fill it out at all in the first place. We put instructions on the back of the card to remind people after we had enough one year. Didn't help a bit.

 

[Sugarbear]

August is the best month for football. Just some random musings.

August truly is the best month for football. Everybody is so happy and juiced up. Optimisim runs high and after awhile I start to believe everything I hear because everyones arguments for every team make sense. People are so passioante. It sounds very convincing coming back out the other way and is certainly how one comes to have dozens of future tickets as well as a nice tip income from the many wonderful visitors and friends that come to Americas number 1 race and sportsbook at the Stardust. Believe me when I tell you.



Everybody has :money: in there eyes. I cant lose they say. Its there year say others. Of course there are the usual arguments because you are crazy if you think....Sometimes it even breaks out into a real fight. Always a treat.
:toast: Seriously. By the time security gets there, everybody forgot what happened somehow. Amazingly short memeories some get at times. Oh well. There was never any bleeding. Therefore there is no foul.


One thing people never realize is just how much stuff in the current press they reapat like they are experts or something. People come by your window
and just blather away like you are hearing it for only the 100th time or so instead of the thousand or two you are on. Of course being the man in the know, you are expected to present a counter argument which is more like a sentence or question somewhat opposite of the current point. This enables a person to defend there positions and continue to carry on the converstation by themselves as you work around them in the way that things are in a book.


You guys really should see yourselves. You are the most convinced and confident about things as you will be all year. No one can tell you anything.
Its your year. You have done your studying, you have your books, papers, pens and what not all ready to go. YOU CAN NOT WAIT FOR THE GAMES TO GET HERE. WHAT IS TAKING SO LONG DAMMINIT! I positivly love it. It gets me excited for the season when I see people like that. I start to cant wait and believe me when I tell you, I can very certainly wait. Once its on, its on and oh my god. This is just a warm up piece to how things are in real speed.
Not that there is a difference, there is just a lot more people. Double so on Sundays because women just LOVE to bet on the NFL. A true sight to see.


The best thing for me is getting to see all my old friends again from around the country. I had a following and this is the week everybody comes out of the woodwork folks. Let me tell you. The second week of September is too far away and this is the week the NFL teams try to win there games, set tone, etc,etc. Everyone is confident in the line and in there ablity to beat it with confidence. They got the teams figured out and the amount of money bet goes way up. Its like people are cueing up or something. Everyone is on the hunt.


We got you right where we want you now. Its the eyes are bigger than the stomach syndrome. You should see the kind of impossible tickets people bet.
They cross this with that in all kinds of "I am in Vegas, Whooo, I'm gonna bet a piss and a wish as much I can and then pray I hit something.


First of course there is there serious bets. Then there future bets, there just in case bets, there chase bets, there bet because I won and or am winning so I must make more bets to have more action so I can get more drink tickets bets. Then theres the bet to bet because I am standing right here and either a game or a horse race is going off so I must bet it, bet. Oh and lets not forget the, I am walking around the casino so I will stop and play...bets. Most of the time this is on the way to eat and you dont see people for hours. Half the time its on a comp you gave them because you know what they are going to do. Sometimes its even to the coffee shop.
Thats big folks.


Fellow bookie brothers where are you at? Am I right? Fishhead?


You guys should really see yourselves. I love you all. XOXO. More to come.
I can go for a long time. You just dont know.

 

[Sugarbear]

The first weekend is the best weekend. The excitment runs high.

We got you right where we want you now. Its the eyes are bigger than the stomach syndrome. You should see the kind of impossible tickets people bet. They cross this with that in all kinds of "I am in Vegas, Whooo, I'm gonna bet a piss and a wish as much I can and then pray I hit something.


First of course there is there serious bets. Then there future bets, there just in case bets, there chase bets, there bet because I won and or am winning so I must make more bets to have more action so I can get more drink tickets bets. Then theres the bet to bet because I am standing right here and either a game or a horse race is going off so I must bet it, bet. Oh and lets not forget the, I am walking around the casino so I will stop and play...bets. Most of the time this is on the way to eat and you dont see people for hours. Half the time its on a comp you gave them because you know what they are going to do. Sometimes its even to the coffee shop.
Thats big folks.





Ahh yes, its Labor day weekend. At long last the season is here and there is something to do again. By this time on a Firday night, PEOPLE ARE RABID.
Mind you, this is when the NFL started also, back in the day. Its unreal.


Back in the day my start time was 6:30 am. I would come in and the lines in the windows from the grave yard shift would be all the way back to the snack bar. That is no short line my friends. Worse still there would be like 5 or 6 of us coming on and all the people in line would disperse right to your
window and wait impatiently while you open.

So there you are with an 11,500 opening bankroll and there are people breathing down peoples necks, looking over there shoulders, looking at you.
Talk about pressure. It is really not a sight you want to see. Its like where you been all night?

On top of this, can you guess what the number one question is at 6:30-7:30 am in the morning is? Well, ok, the second most asked question besides can I get some drink tickets is? What time do the baseball lines come out? So, let me get this straight, we got all this football action going with a bunch of games going at 9 and you want to know WHAT? People are serious when they ask this.


Here they are with a dozen sheets of this and that in there hand, looking for more. We would tell them 8 and depending on the time, many would be crestfallen. Its was only 8 am but I might as well have said 8 pm. Unreal.


Worse still we always had the lottery first. Now in truth it was informal and quick compared to the slow season but when you told people they could bet it after the lottery, all of a sudden you have a wanna be wise guy or two who wants to be in. Contrary to popular belief, anyone could be in the lottery. All you had to do was bet a dime a game on up and you had to make at least one play if you got in. People will pay a dime or two for the expierence no problem. It made no difference to us behind the counter, the rules are the same for everyone. The guys out on the floor on the other hand whom are moving for the real groups meanwhile......


Are making bets among themselves to see if the squares will stick. Its a sight to see. Someone has crossed into there territory and wants to be a Wise Guy. Its a subtle intimtdation both side particiapte in. Looks kill in subtle ways. Add a few beards moving around defensivly and looking meanly at the wanna be's and its 50/50 they stand.


Now the real action starts at 7:45 when we call for sign ups. That usually seaprates the drunks and bet outs already. More than a few make it to that point and then its on. We are scurrying trying to get the sheets out, get the stuff in the computer and double checked, while at the same time taking bets on all the games, ESPN blaring away in the background. At this point some of the runners chat the guys up. I will admit, those who have stuck, got what they paid for. They were certainly in the heat of the moment. It only pissed the runners off if the guy drew the number one spot in either window number 1 or 2.


Now at this point its 7:55 and all who are going to draw cards are standing in a bunch. To keep,it short, the wanna be's dont know how to act. From they are with celebritys on down to, I am cool or tough or whatever.

I swear when it came time for all of them to bet, its like they forgot how. From bravado to give me UHHH. Meanwhile all are looking at you like come on any day now. Worse yet, they will try to bet a football game. This is after we told them its was baseball only. Forget the lines have been up since last Sunday for the foots.


To be continued.

 

[Sugarbear]

Its time like these, that even I struggle with it all.

Back in another time and place, it was one big challenge. No matter what they said they were going to do to us here, we were like, fuck you. Very much like we are now.

All during the crusade years, we closed ranks, top to bottom, because they were closing in on us ALL. I see the same things starting to happen today.



Whats happening today is no different than what happened in the 90's. Just subsitute Frist for McCain and the Offshores/UK for Vegas. Only Vegas knew what it was doing. Had a number of owners, over time, come together and spent some of that money on a real infrastructure, maybe you would able to by now also. Its what it comes down to.



It makes me wonder where the fun of it all went at times. Seemingly, the trials and tribulations never bothered me. It is part of the game. But still, I hurt for the little people. I try to give you looks into those peoples lives, because I understand the day to day devestating effects of it all behind the scenes.


So, So, many more people than the bettor get caught up in these things. Its unreal. Entire lives thrown about like nothing. Many were just people who needed a job, any job. Others are with people in the industry. I could go on for a long time.



Sometimes, I just struggle with it all. Just think, I am only 40 and on my second go around, with solid memories from when I was a kid, of the ending days of the VOG.


They are median age 62 and go back 5 generations. I wonder how they feel about all this. This, that they have seen and been through so many times. I wonder if they hurt for us at times. I know they worry a great deal, but hurt?, I dont know.

You dont understand. By the time you do, youre there age or a full on proffessional like me. You'll figure it out, they always say. But, will you?


Do you really want to?

 

[jdodger]

Hey, sugarbear, thanks for the stories.

Regarding the current situation....

You are currently in a position where you might have some insight into a question that occurs to me.

This new legislation caught many of us by surprise, being accomplished as a rider on a bill that has nothing to do with gambling.

In fact, before this current development, the main buzz in the last couple of months had been the arrests of offshore operators.

Do you think these arrests will now stop, or do you think this type of harassment will continue?

 

[hellah10]

This has to be the best thread I have ever read since I ve been on the internet (1993)

thanks for the stories Bear... Im book marking this

 

[Sugarbear]

Hey, sugarbear, thanks for the stories.

Regarding the current situation....

You are currently in a position where you might have some insight into a question that occurs to me.

This new legislation caught many of us by surprise, being accomplished as a rider on a bill that has nothing to do with gambling.

In fact, before this current development, the main buzz in the last couple of months had been the arrests of offshore operators.

Do you think these arrests will now stop, or do you think this type of harassment will continue?

I have been thinking of you lately, big time, JD. Your wisdom is needed.


In fact, I do believe the arrest will stop now, and pick up inside America somewhere. In the game of regulation you need someone to blame, and this bill does that. It also unhinges the Feds somewhat and kicks it to state level, which can twist the law as it sees fit. Or it will twist the law as it sees fit. Whether it can or not will make no difference, the damage will be done, just like it is now. Not that its a law yet, and in any event, they outlawed something that was already illegal, GO FIGURE.


Someone has to be made to look like criminals, and the banks are it. Just like the ticket writers and supervisors of old Vegas, when 6A first hit. Make a mistake, you are done. With states like Louisiana running bogus stings on foriegn operators, it would be nothing to turn on the banks and route a few transactions thru. A couple of checks, a few tranfers and bingo.


They will hide behind, All we know is the Feds said the rules are in place and to be enforced now, they failed to do so and now face criminal charges.


Just like the old days, they went from chasing people all over the streets/world, into making us do it for them, starting in the streets and covering the world. Thats what regulation is. Do it, or else we will demonize you. More like, do it, while we demonize you, under the guise of regulation and doing our jobs, as you/we very well know.


NO different now.

 

[Sugarbear]

This has to be the best thread I have ever read since I ve been on the internet (1993)

thanks for the stories Bear... Im book marking this

Thank you, I am honored.

 

[Sugarbear]

Read this and compare to today. No different, just international now.

You know one thing I can say for all I speak for is that in we never really knew what sparked the crusade against Vegas. It started quietly. One day very early on that I remember clear as a bell happened between Joe and I after hearing McCain had said something to the effect of bannning sports betting in Vegas and laughing in a get out of here way. No shot. In addition he was initially attacked for being fake and using it for a presidential platform launch. He was not taken all that serious. It was shrugged off by all for a time as it came during slow season when it started in seems.


Thanks to JC I now know how it came to be that McCain and company got the idea to go on there crusade against Vegas. He recanted the story the other night on MW of how The NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL sent him a letter ordering him to stop taking bets on there teams. When he refused they called there friends in NY to indict him on illegal bookmaking. From there McCain and Co got the idea to use that to there advantage aginst Vegas or harp on the band wagon and twist it all to hell to keep the conservative moderate base happy. (HMMM. Who was McCain pandering to?Hmmm sound familiar) He of course was all religious right back then but many dems jumped on so as to look good.


So all this we dont want our teams bet on or have point spreads used stuff they unfurled is because JC refused to obey an order from the 4 major sports leauges whom had no jurisdiction over him and was breaking no laws where he was at.

THE NERVE AND THE GALL. WHO ARE THEY EXACTLY?


Please all note I am talking about the single book era in Vegas. The time period covering the spring of 97 thru the spring of 2000. Not the modern merge era you see today and the internet offhore was new still. Also the greater half of the story is the desire shut down sportsbetting period in Vegas. Its just that the pointspread stuff got more attention and are the memeories coming out at present. I will get to the big picture at some point.
A lot is rushing back right now.


Now no disrespect to the bettor who has never worked behind the counter in any capicity on what I might say next. In the end all you have to worry about is your money and where you will get down. The rest who work a job in the industry go thru hell and could care if they ever make or take a bet on a thing again in the end.




The end effect is criminalization and demonization. What has me ticked off till this very day still is having to sit behind the counter and endure the onslaught of insecurity and fear plus endless questions of "what are you going to do"? Some with concern for a friend, others out of fear and yet others who are standing in your window wondering if this is the last legal bet they will be able to make in Vegas,bending down low talking in speakeasy.


All the while you read and and hear all over the place how sportsbetting in Vegas is fueling the offshore industry and must be stopped. Now understand the 4 major leauges not only wanted the betting to stop but the point spread from being produced and put out.


Now being at the Dust whom put out Americas line that directly affected us and the politicians really believed, I mean really truly believed that if we stopped producing the line and the oddsmakers were prohibited from putting one out people would not have accsess to this stuff and be able to bet. They really believed people would not get it from somewhere else. I can tell you the people were scared. Very scared. Every little story that came out negative aginst Vegas made everyones blood pressure go up 10-20 points. People running around with there eyes wide open scared they may not be able to bet much longer IS NOT A GOOD THING TO WITNESS WHATS SO EVER. The desperation some had was unreal. In furthrance they thought it would hurt the offshores whom they assumed were dependent on us but found out differntly. The threat of the offshores putting out an illegal line vs a legal one won out in the long run but the 4 leauges and the Feds were adamant shutting it down would work better but more incredibly if you could not see it or access it you would not want it and the interest would go away.


Honest to god they believed out of sight out of mind and pushed it hard. There were several tense moments over the two time periods much like today.


The end effect is demonization. You sit there and read how you are destroying american values and all thats wrong with betting in America. They are talking about people they allowed to be there in there first place. They bring Robert Walker and Joe Lupo to power and then turn on Joe to start with because we have done such a good job of making things safe. Cleaning up the Stardust image made betting glamourus and cool again therefore it must be banned.

They kept pushing its Vegas's fault. All the rhectoric was aimed at shutting us down. All of Vegas. If you cant come here to bet games you wont come here to gamble thus saving you and your childern while putting us out of jobs at the same time. ALL OF US. This would clean up America they said. In very basic Joe called playing pretend and attacked it as such along with several
others.

Others like Robert Walker, D. Wayne Mauldin, Bob Scucci, Art Manteris, Chuck Esposito, John Avello, Bobby Davis and a host of others behind the scenes worked very hard to save everyones job and stop the politicians from calling us dirty names becasue offshore betting became popular and they wanted to stop it. For a long while it was mean and nasty and I just feared for my career and aspirations like everyone else.


Just regular ordinary everyday people who need a job to survive and are doing nothing nothing illegal all the while being made to look like in the regular world we are.


Do you have any idea how humilating that is in the big picture. People look at you that way when there in your window too. Dont doubt it. When something is contributing to an illegal criminal enterprise people act like they are somewhere they are not supposed to be. I saw it in various people about half the time. They would be looking around stareing at things trying to see what exactly is so criminal. They come away quite bemused because it looks like nothing. I have seen dissapointment on some peoples faces when its not near as sinsister and dark as they were making it. Confusion is more like it.


Do you have any idea how that feels?


All because some sports leauges dont want people betting on games and have friends in high places they can call to try and do something about it.


The Nerve and the Gall.


To be continued.

One thing I am grateful for, is that a great many of you will never have to endure something like this, face to face.


You have it easy on the computer. Also, please think about our brothers and sisters in Costa Rica, because a great deal of what we the average
worker people here went thru, they are going thru right now, and being 10x more brutalized in the process. I hurt for them greatly. I really do.
I see exactly whats going.


What this kinda of stuff does to the liitle people is just flat out tragic.

 

[hellah10]

I have a question... and Im very naive when it comes to this whole Vegas/ Wise Guy / runner stuff so this is no personal shot or whatever

But with the experience and everything youve seen... you should be an elite capper right? Maybe you are and I just dont know it... I dont follow many guys here at the rx... but if you are a good capper, is it from your experience working in Vegas... if you are not a good capper, why is that then?

thanks for sharing

 

[Frog1]

I have spent the better part of this afternoon reading this entire thread and I just want to thank you Sugar Bear for taking the time to do these write ups. It is one of the most interesting reads I have ever had and I really appreciate your sharing your experience with us.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

I have spent the better part of this afternoon reading this entire thread and I just want to thank you Sugar Bear for taking the time to do these write ups. It is one of the most interesting reads I have ever had and I really appreciate your sharing your experience with us.

Well said.

 

[Dr.Knowitall]

The Book Managers in Las Vegas during the 80's were theives and that is the reason they have all been blackballed. When the Owners were finally allerted about how these book managers were stealing from them the entire business changed.

That is what your talking about, but you have twisted the story a little. Every book manager had himself a runner that he would feed really good numbers (odds) to and then they would bet the other side at another book. The book managers were scalping baseball and middling football and basketball. They couldn't stop because they were also greedy. They all lost their jobs (not just Scotty) and none of them will ever work in Las Vegas again.

Tell the true story. This is also the reason the Las Vegas sports books didn't want any of these runners in their books. They had to protect their book from the Books Manager because they could steal from the Casino with ease. That's what Scotty and Jack and so on taught the Casinos Operators.

And I do know what I'm talking because I was involved in the "outing of the stealing Las Vegas sports book managers"

Sugarbear. You didn't know this?

You really think Scotty got fired for anything else? The Stardust did him a favor and didn't have him arrested and charged, but you know he will never work in Las Vegas again and it's because of his greed.

 

[Dr.Knowitall]

D Wayne is a super nice person.

One more thing. These Sport Book Managers in the 80's did more harm to the sports betting business than anything before or after what is going on today.

Las Vegas Casino Owners will never trust their Sport book Managers again to just take big bet after big bet from sports bettors. They can't trust what's going on because there was so much stealing going on in the 80's with these low life sports book managers.

Anyone that was there knows what I'm talking about and feels the same way. The stealing sports book managers ruined sports betting for pro's in Las Vegas.