Sportsbook stories from the 90's. From degenrate to mature degenrate.

[Sugarbear]

Memories from the Stardust.

With football season approaching and the picture on the front page taking me back to that time I thought I would give everyone a glimpse of how one can go from degenrate to mature degenrate thanks to a unique oppurtunity given to me by Joe Lupo in the footabll season of 97.


About the 3rd week of the season in Joe calls me into his office one day and tells me the people upstairs wants to put a ticket window in the stardust lounge to take bets on football during the weekends. We need someone who knows what there doing over there and we want you to go. Its already hooked up to recieve the games. My own lounge away from the main floor.
Hmmmm, OK. This is going to be interesting I tell myself.




So I go over there that first saturday to get settled in needing to have parlay card holders as well as sheets, pens, my bank and the like. Lo and behold not only are we going to be watching games in the lounge they put a snack table right next to me with pizza, hotdogs, sandwhiches and the like for sale with a girl to work it. Oh man is this ever going to be fun.




At first the Tv system sucked but it did not matter. People were in there big time for the 12:30's and later on Saturday (most cant make the 9's but thats another story) and in easy time for kickoff on Sunday. The Sunday crowd was triple the Saturday one and standing room only at times.



Then one Saturday about 3 weeks in they put in a brand new state of the art satelite system. The 4 plex screen kind exactly like the ones ESPN had on both sides of the room plus a big drop down screen that covered the middle of the stage. In the back room sat the control plus a remote control.


Once I learned how to use it, it was all over the next 2.5 football seasons.
I could get 6 games in the morning and afternoon each on Saturdays from the big feeds plus 2 local channels for other games of interest as well as all the NFL games on Sunday. The big screen was reserved for the sound game that was voted for by the crowd, the rest I put where I WANTED. The screens closet to me got the games I had the most action on and the far side of the room was the other stuff. I bet in such a fashion that I had coverage on all the games pillar to post both days. I knew the TV scedule cold so it was easy. Better still of course being Juice with his own lounge his friends would come down to see him put in some bets and keep me company for awhile. Most of the time it was around halftime as there was no line ever for that stuff down there and its critical you get in on the good number.


Let me tell you its good to have friends in this buisness.



Oh man were those the days. Come in, set up, turn on the games, sweat your tickets, make sure all the 12:30's were up and running after the 9's were over and then lunch. Folks I did not have to be back to the lounge till the first halftime of the 12:30's on Sat and on Sundays I had 2 hours really as halftime takes a long time to come. As long as everyone was happy and taken care of I could do what I wanted.


I did what I always did at lunch. Went downstairs ate and then right across the street to the Riv to bet some horses and bet the late games.


I went across the street to bet horses and games period for years on end while at the Dust. I gave Gary Jones a ton of my tip or otherwise money.
Vic Salerno too while I am at it. I always won enough to lose it back or lost it to win it back. It didn't make a difference. I just lived the life. It really is what you do with the money in the middle.


Between winning and losing or losing and winning there is always a PROFIT if you choose to take it. Believe me when I tell you. Its all about perspective.


I worked the counter like a dream. I made plenty of folding money along the way which fueled that lifestyle even more. I know/knew plenty of true wise guys as we did cater to them and I passed along information the old fashioned way in this culture. Life was good.

 

[Illini]

Sugarbear- were you working the day when that guy came in a shot someone in the Stardust sportsbook? I suppose that is another story you will tell if you were there.

 

[djking]

"Las Vegas Justice of the Peace William Jansen ruled on Tuesday that a man charged with killing another man inside the sportsbook of the Stardust resort is competent enough to stand trial. Anthony Cuccia is charged with shooting and killing Philip Greenspan, 56, inside the Stardust sportsbook back on Feb. 7th. Cuccia will be arraigned on Nov. 1st before District Judge Donald Mosley. Cuccia told police following his arrest that he killed Greenspan because he thought that Greenspan was going to kill him on orders from organized crime.
That response and other weird acts led authorities and defense attorneys to question whether Cuccia was mentally balanced and led to the hearing to determine whether or not Cuccia was mentally competent enough to understand the charges against him.
Cuccia was sent to Lakes Crossing, the state facility for mentally offenders in Sparks to determine whether or not he was competent to stand trial. Doctors there determined that Cuccia is indeed competent. Cuccia is suggesting that he is a former member of the Gambino crime family.
Prosecutors say that Cuccia's depth of knowledge about organized crime suggest that his delusions may have some basis in fact but said that they still believe that Cuccia is delusional and that even delusional people are responsible for their actions if they know right from wrong.
Prosecutors even said that Cuccia's depth of knowledge about organized crime suggests that his delusions may even have some basis in fact.<!-- END -->

 

[Sugarbear]

Sugarbear- were you working the day when that guy came in a shot someone in the Stardust sportsbook? I suppose that is another story you will tell if you were there.

Man was I ever there and will certainly tell that story from the Other Side of the Counter (OTC) perspective now that you asked.


Talk about untold stories.

 

[Sugarbear]

Sugarbear- were you working the day when that guy came in a shot someone in the Stardust sportsbook? I suppose that is another story you will tell if you were there.

Folks this event is one of the incredible ones of my career. It was either a Monday or Tuesday as only the shit tracks like Deleware and Philadelphia
were running. It was a morning like any morning, slow and boring with the usual suspects making there bets plus a few tourist. Nothing special at all.


This day I and my co-worker Jenny were one with the Q. One with the Q referes to a certain part of the counter at the Dust that when you paseed it were consisered to be working in the race book for the day. On slow days everyone is clustered in that section for the most part.



Now this day was nothing special like I said. I was a little lucky that day as I caught a tourist on a nice run at Philly whom was tipping me nicely.
Said tourist hits a tirfecta at some point that comes back in the machine as pay 1900 dollars. So a usual I go into my drawer to count the money
out. As I turn around to pay him...a real loud bang rings out like a bomb went off only you didn't quite feel thats what it was.


Now in between bang one and two me and this guy are looking at each other with silver dollar eyes. After bang two all hell broke loose.


In classic movie slow motion movements I dive for the floor trying to get thru the doorway and into the back as I am doing this my one supervisor Jim jumps over me and kicks me flush in the back of the head. So I hit the floor and hear screaming plus stuff moving all over the place it seems.


In the midst of all this panic all of a sudden I hear my contemporary Ray Spaulding yelling at the top of his lungs I have the gun, I have the gun.


Now in the most incredible thing I have seen in my life, Ray is holding the gun in the air cocked, everyone starts coming up for air getting there bearings while the guy who did the shooting went and sat down in the front row,started watching Tv and started singing to himself like nothing hapened. GTFO. My eyes were out my head , Metro was not there yet and secutrity whom did not have guns were useless. This guy could have gotten away easy. And I do mean easy. Out the side door and onto industrial and you are gone in no time.



Now a couple of minutes goes by and in bust Metro at full speed to control the situation but nothing was going on. The gun is sitting on the counter and all were just waiting around for them. One cop comes to the counter while several people point the guy out sitting in the first row.


Folks in one of the most incredible things I ever heard after they arrest this guy and read him his rights, he strikes up a converstation with a couple of cops like he was at a bus stop taking about the weather or something. A full one about little things and you can tell the cops are just going along wondering WTF.


In no way did this guy act like he just shot someone almost to death at this point. The guy he shot managed to make it outside the front door before dying out front. On this very same day some guy at the Westward Ho lost all his money and decided that he wanted to try to commit suicide.


Now not only do we have foresenics all over the book digging the bullet out of the one row of race seats but we have a suicide team out front trying to talk a guy into not dropping his body onto a sharp knife he planted in the ground in order to kill himself with. Incredible shit on top of incredible shit there folks.


It took the police several hours to clear the scene. Just as they had recovered the first bullet and had given up on the second one someone noticed a big hole in one of our race screens and so upstairs they went to find the other bullet.


To all of our regular customers great credit they did not go anylace else to bet that day. The time for the NBA kept getting closer and the crowds bigger but they did not leave. We opened back up at 4:15. We wrote more tickets and took more money in, in 15 minutes than in the history of the industry on a non football weekend. We got everyone in without adding time.


At the end of the day when things were fairly normal again and had slowed down we all looked at each other behind the counter, let out a big sigh of relief and did what the Rams had done that football season when they won it all. There was like 10 of us bending down low slapping hands jumping side to side saying we survived.


Whew.


That is the first time that story has been told in open public from the people on the other side of the counter that day anywhere.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Thanks for the reads Bear, enjoying the thread.....

 

[whalewager]

great stories.

 

[whalewager]

Did either of you guys know Eugene Nolan?

Fish or Sugar?

 

[Sugarbear]

Thanks Patrick and WW. If it weren't for sportsmylife and Illini I would not have started it so thank them to. SML never thought he would get an 9 year running answer to that question I bet.

WW I knew him a little bit but was he was not around that much in public.

 

[whalewager]

Yes I understand.

Keep the stories coming.

 

[VIEJODINOSAUR]

I know Eugene...very likable guy with TONS of stories...aka the swamper.

 

[AlwaysKeen]

great thread...

 

[Fishhead]

Did either of you guys know Eugene Nolan?

Fish or Sugar?

Umm, no I do not.........apparrently should?

 

[Illini]

Sugarbear, what was that......2000 or 2001, right? I read about that in the book "The Odds." I knew nothing about that incident before reading that book. Scary stuff. I used to work as a bank teller in college, and always had the fear of getting robbed. But actually hearing shots fired and someone getting killed.......unbelieveable. I'm sure telling that story brought back some bad memories, but thanks for telling it. This thread is going to be legendary when you're all done with it.

 

[Sugarbear]

The truth about preseason football. It starts in July.

Well here we are the 1st of July the longest month of the year. Everyone is on vacation and or fast asleep in one form/spot or another throughtout the book a baseball game droning on in the background. People are milling about
complaining about all the tourist that are descending for the holiday disturbing there month long nap before the games start in August. People can not wait because about a good full week after the magazines have come out and all have had a chance to "Study" experts come falling out of the clear blue sky. :howdy:


Now mind you this is the single book era of the middle 90's will say its 95 so some things were a lot newer and had either not been perfected yet or did not exist yet or wasn't the form/size you know it today as. You must always keep this in mind.



I wish I had Indian drums because everyone is on the hunt/scalp. Looking for season win totals and discussing the early lines that were out there and who was going to do what. Better still they had to get there tickets in early as the tourist are coming whom always overreact and they can scalp back maybe. There going to set them up so to speak. Is that right?


Now mind you this is a collective mindset as opposed to indivuals saying this as seen from the Other Side of the Counter. (OTC).



You cant help but sit there and smile as people start coming by grabbing the future sheets and telling you who is who. Now a mature degenrate needing to make folding money to fuel the lifestyle has to gather information where he can. One and foemost everyone has a certain sight on things so IT PAYS BOTH PERSONALLY AND PROFFESIONALLY to listen to what people have to say as regular average gamblers will tell you there secrets without much promting at all. Its what goes on, on a daily basis anyway. Much like at these fourms.



Hey Juice whats going on, who do you like today? (Surprise there huh) Hey x whats going on I like xxx what are you into as I watch said person ruffling thru the various sheets. Where are the future sheets at? Right there I say as I point it out and ask at the same time, you got a hot one or two this year?


Several minutes later and often a extra person or two would enter the disscussion you can come away with some valuable information but more importantly small insights you can use down the road.


The mature degenrate understands his customer base and knows that they come from all over and of course have there favorite teams. Now people are not stupid but they do like to be fooled. Its what they paid for. Certainly when they come to Vegas. Keeping a little file of info on this team or that and using it in a converstation gets people excited. Different people look for diiferent things. Mostly its either smile, feed in and make them feel like there right or there team is gonna kill em or very quietly they come up to your window and look around like there doing something wrong and ask you who the wise guys are betting in there own way if you understand what I mean.
It can be profitable and they love you forever. Come by and see you every time they are in town to see how good ole Juice is doing.



The flip side is meanwhile other people are doing the same thing behind the counter and we are quietly taking notes on things about what people say.
When the money starts showing on the so called hot teams your customer base told you about you can move quicker to cut them off and swing things your way. I say that because the wise about say the month before beat everything down and we are exposed with no real coverage as they are waiting on you to catch up as always.



Some of the better players you have developed keys on are about an avg 200-500 bettor and is the type to play seeable future money on things early so to speak. While they are still squares and do square things once they make a move however they do it in sharp ways. Its what its all about in the end.



So you adjust off them becuase either A there ego is talking and they are taking a bad number either way as we know what happened earlier or they take the value number and we adjust off that IF IT IS INDICATED. It is never automatic. There are no rules just adjustments. You make the best decision for the house at that time,given what has been indicated we want to do with that segment of the market that day or beyond. You do nt go outside your indicators without a very good reason. You had better have one too at that.




One thing I have observed about the average bettor throughtout time is that they can come to the window tell you everything they like and then go sit down without betting it because they have not gone thru the process of handicapping in the book yet which is more like the social event of the day and thus they are in no real hurry. These are regular working people mind you now with regular lives. Not all that I refer to are bums or the like.



And so they mill about and its the same basic question who do you like or who do you got? Oh juice by the way can I get a couple of drink tickets?
Sure as you slide them a couple and smile as they will be back shortly to give you there money and pay for those tickets x times over for the rest of there lives. You gotta love this buisness.



To be continued...




How is that everybody? Is that what you want?

 

[Sugarbear]

Juice is my nickname.

Sugarbear, what was that......2000 or 2001, right? I read about that in the book "The Odds." I knew nothing about that incident before reading that book. Scary stuff. I used to work as a bank teller in college, and always had the fear of getting robbed. But actually hearing shots fired and someone getting killed.......unbelieveable. I'm sure telling that story brought back some bad memories, but thanks for telling it. This thread is going to be legendary when you're all done with it.

Illini you are brillant my man. I have never read the book but I can tell you two things for certain. People tell me I am in that book mentioned somewhere in the back of it I think. And Chad basically stood right in my window for 6 months as he wrote that book. I have taken many bets over the phone from Alan during my time there as well as in person.


I was also in the ESPN special they filmed that year at the Stardust when the Rams won the Superbowl as I was the guy who paid off a 100-1 bet for 5 dollars to some guy on national TV.



There are two untold storys in one in what I just said with the Rams opening Superbowl number being an incredible one in the big picture.
Its about a guy who is the only one in the world to lay 7.5 in that game.


In fact I have some great phone stories along that line that will show you just how close and on the inside of the action I was. I lived the life Baby.

 

[Illini]

Illini you are brillant my man. I have never read the book but I can tell you two things for certain. People tell me I am in that book mentioned somewhere in the back of it I think. And Chad basically stood right in my window for 6 months as he wrote that book. I have taken many bets over the phone from Alan during my time there as well as in person.


I was also in the ESPN special they filmed that year at the Stardust when the Rams won the Superbowl as I was the guy who paid off a 100-1 bet for 5 dollars to some guy on national TV.



There are two untold storys in one in what I just said with the Rams opening Superbowl number being an incredible one in the big picture.
Its about a guy who is the only one in the world to lay 7.5 in that game.


In fact I have some great phone stories along that line that will show you just how close and on the inside of the action I was. I lived the life Baby.

I'm brilliant? Sweet. I don't agree, but thanks. :smoker2:
You should read that book, it's one that you won't be able to put down.

 

[Illini]

Sugar- what do you mean when you say that there are squares that get sharp numbers and then do square things with them?

 

[SunDodger]

Cool stories Sugarbear. When's the book coming out??

 

[whalewager]

Umm, no I do not.........apparrently should?

Biggest book in US at one time.