Should Healthcare be a birth right?

[ERockMoney]

The wait time issue is one of the bigger myths regarding healthcare, when comparing North America to Europe. Wait times are actually superior throughout Europe compared to NA, with certain exceptions. Patients perceptions drive the myth, as Europeans complain constantly about waiting times while those in NA do not, when in fact Europe is superior for non-elective simple and complex surgeries and superior for wait times to see GP's compared to PCP's in NA. Elective surgeries are an absolute mess in Europe compared to NA. One note, NA numbers on wait times are improving while Europe's are worsening, so who knows where it will end up.

That being said, Europe has a ton of other issues and their system is flawed in many ways. As to the original question, I'm not a believer in healthcare being a birth right or being completely controlled by the government, it just doesn't work as an efficient and cost effective model in my experience in the industry.

 

[festeringZit]

health care may not have needed to be a right when people only lived until 65

now that people live to the 80s routinely, i think it's reasonable to think this question is re-addressed. just because it was one way in the past does not mean we should not adapt.

what is the purpose of healthcare for all? to identify preventable diseases and to manage chronic illnesses at a low cost rather than paying for high cost consequences. why do we need to focus on these preventable diseases? because people are living much longer than they used to, and we have expensive treatments to keep them alive when something catastrophic happens (ie. heart attack or stroke).

why shouldn't it be a right? it's not wrong to believe that people need to be held accountable for their actions. however, with such gaps in education and a labor force that is dwindling due to automation by technology, the poorest and least educated continue to suffer from the most preventable diseases. together with the social issues, the cost continues to add up not just per person, but in total due to the increased population numbers among the poorest people in poverty.

there is no right answer because there are logical financial and logistical reasons to not make health care a right (ie. basically it is impossible to afford) that go against the moral answer, which is to provide everyone with health care. that being said, just because something seems impossible, does it mean we should not strive for it?

Why do you assume that stealing from those who have earned it, to pay for people that don't have money, is the *moral* answer?

 

[michael777]

people that are getting health care for free are stealing other peoples money,that is just a fact,you libs need to wise up

 

[EV180]

nothing is a birthright other then the fact that you will die someday. Healthcare cost money. that money has to come from somewhere...it doesn't just magically appear

 

[HugeUnderdog]

I think peoples' answers for the most part will depend a lot on their socioeconomic status. This is not a robin hood situation at all. You guys telling
me a person that makes the minimum and can't afford to go to a private doctor should not be assisted? People who think like that are the real parasites
just want to exploit their environment and others till there is nothing left then move on. Give nothing back. I think thats wrong.

 

[SheriffJoe]

If you want to live in a free country, the answer is an unequivocal "No!"

With true freedom comes responsibility.

As for the exorbitant cost of healthcare we are told that "so many people can't afford" look what happened to the cost of healthcare once the government got involved.

If only 'progressives' learned to stop "solving problems"...

 

[SheriffJoe]

The poor don't pay more in the form of taxes. We need to ask why these people don't have insurance. The fact is that about half is due to a job situation, either the benefits haven't kicked in yet or they're in-between jobs. Have the employer give the money that they're sending to an insurance company on behalf of the employee and let the employee buy their insurance on the open market. I used to work with a guy who had the top of the line cable package, brand new cell phone with the top plan, but didn't buy health insurance. He could afford it, as it was in the pre ACA days, but chose to spend the money elsewhere. It isn't my obligation to spend my money on him so he can have insurance.

The argument liberals will make in this case is it's someone else's responsibility to pay for your friend's irresponsibility, which flies in the face of prudent common sense economics. Namely, removing the moral hazard inevitably results in people taking unnecessary and irresponsible risks knowing someone else will bear the cost of the consequences.

"Free" healthcare is another example of the "everyone deserves a trophy" mentality permeating a society which increasingly refuses to grow up.

Private charity is one thing, but nobody 'owes' anyone shit.

 

[vitterd]

"Everyone deserves a trophy"face)(*^% compared to health care.

Where does RX find these people.

 

[SheriffJoe]

"Everyone deserves a trophy"face)(*^% compared to health care.

Where does RX find these people.

-- says the troll on disability. ointer:

 

[vitterd]

-- says the troll on disability. ointer:

Nobody believes you.....nobody. Even the ones that say they do.....don't.

Thats your cover story after I called your bluff!!!Boom!!!

 

[metro]

By the way vittered i offer you an olive branch..if you are in fact on disability.. theres a guy at the keno parlor i see often that
Advertises word of mouth a seminar on collecting uneployment WHILE on disability.. its a massive loophole he learned how to exploit , but theres an art to it appatently, if you get a handfull of guys or whatever he'll do a seminar in your area at a la quinta inn or assuming your driving distance ( greyhound , peter pan or amtrack).. or if one on one , if u make it worth his while im sure he'll do it.. he plays keno and scratch tickets every morning so im guessing hes reasonable To hire to be trained by. I cant imagine hes killing at with the amount of lotto i see him playing for the few minutes i am there he is scratching lotto tickets like a bastard.

 

[vitterd]

By the way vittered i offer you an olive branch..if you are in fact on disability.. theres a guy at the keno parlor i see often that
Advertises word of mouth a seminar on collecting uneployment WHILE on disability.. its a massive loophole he learned how to exploit , but theres an art to it appatently, if you get a handfull of guys or whatever he'll do a seminar in your area at a la quinta inn or assuming your driving distance ( greyhound , peter pan or amtrack).. or if one on one , if u make it worth his while im sure he'll do it.. he plays keno and scratch tickets every morning so im guessing hes reasonable To hire to be trained by. I cant imagine hes killing at with the amount of lotto i see him playing for the few minutes i am there he is scratching lotto tickets like a bastard.

Never been on disability in my life....total made up lie by Sheriff Joe.

 

[metro]

Ok nevermind .. was just an idea

 

[festeringZit]

By the way vittered i offer you an olive branch..if you are in fact on disability.. theres a guy at the keno parlor i see often that
Advertises word of mouth a seminar on collecting uneployment WHILE on disability.. its a massive loophole he learned how to exploit , but theres an art to it appatently, if you get a handfull of guys or whatever he'll do a seminar in your area at a la quinta inn or assuming your driving distance ( greyhound , peter pan or amtrack).. or if one on one , if u make it worth his while im sure he'll do it.. he plays keno and scratch tickets every morning so im guessing hes reasonable To hire to be trained by. I cant imagine hes killing at with the amount of lotto i see him playing for the few minutes i am there he is scratching lotto tickets like a bastard.

That was pretty funny, you gotta admit

 

[vitterd]

That was pretty funny, you gotta admit

It wasnt intended to be a joke. He's being completely serious.

 

[SheriffJoe]

Never been on disability in my life....total made up lie by Sheriff Joe.

Liar.

 

[vitterd]

Liar.

This is pretty simple. Let's take it to BAS

lifetime ban and 5k if I've ever been on any disability in my life.....time for you to walk the talk.

 

[halekulani]

Why do you assume that stealing from those who have earned it, to pay for people that don't have money, is the *moral* answer?

why is it stealing if it's money you already paid to the government? the goal of supporting the poor is to help make them healthy, productive workers (this in itself is debatable as the counter argument is that you're removing any incentive to work in the first place). but again, if the diseases go untreated, the cost becomes much higher. it's more of a lesser of two evils approach. do you want to treat for hypertension and diabetes medications or would you rather have a costly heart attack or stroke followed by increased used of social services (physical therapy, rehab, long term facility placement because now they are permanently disabled and no longer able to contribute to the work force, etc).

 

[festeringZit]

why is it stealing if it's money you already paid to the government? the goal of supporting the poor is to help make them healthy, productive workers (this in itself is debatable as the counter argument is that you're removing any incentive to work in the first place). but again, if the diseases go untreated, the cost becomes much higher. it's more of a lesser of two evils approach. do you want to treat for hypertension and diabetes medications or would you rather have a costly heart attack or stroke followed by increased used of social services (physical therapy, rehab, long term facility placement because now they are permanently disabled and no longer able to contribute to the work force, etc).

"why is it stealing if it's money you already paid to the government?"

That's pretty funny. Let's just give all our money to the government then?

That way everything can be free!! Wheeee!!!!!!!!!

 

[halekulani]

the emergency department cannot refuse treatment in a life threatening situation
why don't you propose a reasonable alternative to the situation above? if you don't want to invest in primary care, then what do you do with people who suffer from chronic illnesses? how do you justify to continue paying for their expensive emergency department costs?
are you hoping they die faster? doctors are getting smarter at keeping these people alive.