Should Healthcare be a birth right?

[The Guesser]

Of course it should. And it is in most Civilized Countries in the World, the US being the biggest exception. It should be part of our tax system, as again, it is in most civilized Countries in the World.


[h=1]List of countries by health insurance coverage[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A list of countries by health insurance coverage. The table lists the percentage of the total population covered by total public and primary private health insurance, by government/social health insurance, and by primary private health insurance in the 34 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) member countries in 2011.[SUP][1][/SUP]

OECD (2011)[SUP][1][/SUP] Percentage of total population covered by

Rank Country Total public and primary private health insurance Government / social health insurance Primary private health insurance 1 Australia 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Canada 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Czech Republic 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Denmark 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Finland 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Greece 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Hungary 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Iceland 100.0 99.8 0.2 1 Ireland 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Israel 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Italy 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Japan 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Korea, South 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 New Zealand 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Norway 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Portugal 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Slovenia 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Sweden 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Switzerland 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 United Kingdom 100.0 100.0 0.0 21 Austria 99.9 99.9 0.0 21 France 99.9 99.9 0.0 21 Germany 99.9 88.9 11.0 21 Netherlands 99.9 99.9 0.0 21 Spain 99.9 99.9 0.0 26 Turkey 99.5 99.5 0.0 27 Belgium 98.8 98.8 0.0 28 Luxembourg 97.2 97.2 0.0 29 Poland 96.6 96.6 0.0 30 Slovakia 95.2 95.2 0.0 31 Estonia 92.9 92.9 0.0 32 Mexico 86.7 86.7 0.0 33 United States 84.9 31.8 53.1 34 Chile 76.2 76.2 0.0 <thead> </thead><tbody> </tbody>

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[The Guesser]

You were thought to be a sheriff joe ghost. Is there a bigger insult to a poster?
Wife beating Willie a liar. Retard Lenbo desperate for my attention. Mountain=ghost. I called Joe's bluff, shattered his teeth. Racist centaur. Con man joe checking my sig 24/7

Is Mountain a ghost? We know he's a senile psychopath, and a sick stalker, but he's also a ghost? Hadn't heard that one. I'd be curious who you think he also posts as? Everything else in your sig has already been proven as truth. Don't forget the Wife Beating Liar is also a proven, sanctioned Criminal, for running a fraudulent business.

 

[Albatross]

Of course it should. And it is in most Civilized Countries in the World, the US being the biggest exception. It should be part of our tax system, as again, it is in most civilized Countries in the World.


[h=1]List of countries by health insurance coverage[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A list of countries by health insurance coverage. The table lists the percentage of the total population covered by total public and primary private health insurance, by government/social health insurance, and by primary private health insurance in the 34 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) member countries in 2011.[SUP][1][/SUP]

OECD (2011)[SUP][1][/SUP] Percentage of total population covered by

Rank Country Total public and primary private health insurance Government / social health insurance Primary private health insurance 1 Australia 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Canada 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Czech Republic 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Denmark 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Finland 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Greece 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Hungary 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Iceland 100.0 99.8 0.2 1 Ireland 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Israel 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Italy 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Japan 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Korea, South 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 New Zealand 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Norway 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Portugal 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Slovenia 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Sweden 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 Switzerland 100.0 100.0 0.0 1 United Kingdom 100.0 100.0 0.0 21 Austria 99.9 99.9 0.0 21 France 99.9 99.9 0.0 21 Germany 99.9 88.9 11.0 21 Netherlands 99.9 99.9 0.0 21 Spain 99.9 99.9 0.0 26 Turkey 99.5 99.5 0.0 27 Belgium 98.8 98.8 0.0 28 Luxembourg 97.2 97.2 0.0 29 Poland 96.6 96.6 0.0 30 Slovakia 95.2 95.2 0.0 31 Estonia 92.9 92.9 0.0 32 Mexico 86.7 86.7 0.0 33 United States 84.9 31.8 53.1 34 Chile 76.2 76.2 0.0 <thead> </thead><tbody> </tbody>

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Who pays for it?

 

[Willie99]

I've vacationed with Brits, they complain about their healthcare system. They even pay cash for medical services so they don't have to wait for services they need. People don't hear too much about that simple truth.

We cure illnesses, we cover by far the most unproductive members of society who simply live off the system, we even cover 12 to 20 million illegals. Every other nation would crumble under that weight

We provide healthcare on demand from cradle to grave, while other nations simply let people die refusing care in situations we do everything possible

Canadians seek treatment abroadThe Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.


In citing those numbers in its 2015 report, "Leaving Canada for Medical Care," the organization said difficulties in obtaining timely medical care at home is, increasingly, leading Canadians to seek it abroad. "It is possible [they] may have left the country to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care, such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death," the report says. "Some may leave simply to avoid delay and to make a quicker return to normal life."


Canadians could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist in 2014, the researchers found, three weeks more than the time physicians considered to be clinically "reasonable."

 

[Willie99]

Who pays for it?

it's free

 

[Enfuego]

I was raised with the belief nothing is free and you must work for everything to survive in America. Agree with that principle.

BTW - Lived in the UK for six years. The healthcare system there is an abortion and they hate it too. Waiting 6 months on a list to get an appendectomy isn't fun.

 

[Willie99]

I was raised with the belief nothing is free and you must work for everything to survive in America. Agree with that principle.

BTW - Lived in the UK for six years. The healthcare system there is an abortion and they hate it too. Waiting 6 months on a list to get an appendectomy isn't fun.

so you have the same experience has me, although I never lived their, the residents I've interacted with don't like it

 

[vitterd]

Is Mountain a ghost? We know he's a senile psychopath, and a sick stalker, but he's also a ghost? Hadn't heard that one. I'd be curious who you think he also posts as? Everything else in your sig has already been proven as truth. Don't forget the Wife Beating Liar is also a proven, sanctioned Criminal, for running a fraudulent business.

Not only is mountain a ghost.....he's a long time troll at many forums. You can see him lashing out in the poly forum now that I've exposed him. He tried to play that even keel, rational guy for a long time.....but eventually these losers show who they are. Dont forget....I accepted mountains bet to prove what I said was true.....and then he ran away with claims that his rent a cop neighbor would have me audited. Now that he's exposed.....he's going full right wing loon.....which is his true self.

Give it time.....and eventually the knockout king exposes them

 

[Ricboff]

healthcare is tricky, it's not like you're talking about, say, widgets. Rather, the health of your fellow man. Man is wired to help each other. Ya don't need some silly religion to tell ya that-with that said, given USA is largely Christian have a read of Jesus' teachings.............we don't turn a blind eye to the sick.



With that said, NOTHING is free. USA already has a form of socialized medicine(medicaid/medicare), different shades. Once ya hit 65 one is entitled to medicare , but its not free. Medicaid/medicare/social security accoutn for approx., 47% of govt outlays. Americans spend more on healthcare on a per capita basis than any other country, approx 10 times the global average. Stunning. Healthcare costs consistency rise higher than the rate of inflation. Explosion of chronic disease. The management of said disease with pills, manage the symptoms. It gets worse--we are living longer and a new beast is rising-- alzheimers. Long term care facilities will be needed. Who will pay for these? ...start saving

Government has a history of not managing nearly anything efficiently. Lobbyists have poisoned them resulting in mass increase in healthcare costs. I'd be very very cautious in assigning govt total control.

 

[FairWarning]

I was raised with the belief nothing is free and you must work for everything to survive in America. Agree with that principle.

BTW - Lived in the UK for six years. The healthcare system there is an abortion and they hate it too. Waiting 6 months on a list to get an appendectomy isn't fun.

I believe that nothing is free also, but insurance companies started dropping higher-risk customers. Now the rules have changed.

 

[buddyboy]

the problem these countries are having are the waiting lines/lists for care

in a free market system you can just pay more and you'll find some doctor willing to give up a weekend to see patients.

when everyone can show up and get something for the same price regardless then you're gonna have problems.

an example is most of the doctors and hospitals in these countries only work monday-friday, with just ER on the weekends. why in the world would a doctor work on the weekend? no reason to, they have guaranteed customer base and fixed pricing. so now in order to decrease the amount of people waiting for care the gubmit is considering forcing doctors to work on the weekends.

there is just not enough health care providers to provide health care for everyone... just like one day there will not be enough food to feed everyone.

 

[cgarn]

How do you solve healthcare issues. First off lower the sodium in food. People have no idea what they eat

 

[RunLeeRun]

How do you solve healthcare issues. First off lower the sodium in food. People have no idea what they eat

It's tenuous at best any evidence that links health issues with sodium intake. In fact, there is evidence that lower sodium levels increase heart disease. The 1950's to 1970's were horrible from a nutrition perspective, starting with the fat lie. 50+ years and they still can't provide one ounce of proof that high fat diets cause heart disease. Add salt to the list. The 1970's scare was based on a rat study with an human equivalent dose of 500 grams DAILY of sodium. Most people don't even get 10 grams daily. Complete scam. The worst thing that ever happened to population heath was when government started getting into nutrition. You can sell fresh, whole foods only so many ways. But if you set the climate to accept this idea of controlled ingredients (ie, let's process this and sell it 5000 different ways) now you are creating markets. Ching-ching. I like science. The problem is is moves at the death rate of the old guard...meaning, the ideas (even wrong) go away when it's champions have expired.....

But I agree that people don't know what they are eating. It's all one big experiment.

 

[RunLeeRun]

I was raised with the belief nothing is free and you must work for everything to survive in America. Agree with that principle.

BTW - Lived in the UK for six years. The healthcare system there is an abortion and they hate it too. Waiting 6 months on a list to get an appendectomy isn't fun.

It's the same in Costa Rica. People are waiting sometimes 12+ months to get an exam that they need. The way I see it, 12 months vs never, for a lot of people, makes it an obvious choice.

I had a similar upbringing. I've grown away from it. I don't think everything should be handed out, but I think serious conversation needs to be had in light of world-automation. When all of our jobs are completed via machines, where are people going to find work to pay for food, let alone health care? It's a double-edged sword. Everything to increase profit, but what happens when your practices choke off demand? I think it opens a door to conversations the 1% don't want..."the machines make everything, why should I work"?

I see this in the gaming industry. Just 5 years ago 4 linemovers, 2 in props and another 2 answering the phone is covered by 1 program and a single warm body.

 

[HugeUnderdog]

I look at it this way. Everybody is obligated to pay into the government's pot one way or another regardless if you are poor. matter of fact the poor probably pay more in form of taxes. Why shouldn't basic healthcare be a birth right for the group who can't afford to pay? In the end its not really like middle/upper classes are paying for them.

 

[cgarn]

It's tenuous at best any evidence that links health issues with sodium intake. In fact, there is evidence that lower sodium levels increase heart disease. The 1950's to 1970's were horrible from a nutrition perspective, starting with the fat lie. 50+ years and they still can't provide one ounce of proof that high fat diets cause heart disease. Add salt to the list. The 1970's scare was based on a rat study with an human equivalent dose of 500 grams DAILY of sodium. Most people don't even get 10 grams daily. Complete scam. The worst thing that ever happened to population heath was when government started getting into nutrition. You can sell fresh, whole foods only so many ways. But if you set the climate to accept this idea of controlled ingredients (ie, let's process this and sell it 5000 different ways) now you are creating markets. Ching-ching. I like science. The problem is is moves at the death rate of the old guard...meaning, the ideas (even wrong) go away when it's champions have expired.....

But I agree that people don't know what they are eating. It's all one big experiment.

I hear you. Don't believe everything you hear. However I do believe that lower sodium is the number 1 reason to help strokes and heart attacks.

 

[guitarjosh]

I look at it this way. Everybody is obligated to pay into the government's pot one way or another regardless if you are poor. matter of fact the poor probably pay more in form of taxes. Why shouldn't basic healthcare be a birth right for the group who can't afford to pay? In the end its not really like middle/upper classes are paying for them.

The poor don't pay more in the form of taxes. We need to ask why these people don't have insurance. The fact is that about half is due to a job situation, either the benefits haven't kicked in yet or they're in-between jobs. Have the employer give the money that they're sending to an insurance company on behalf of the employee and let the employee buy their insurance on the open market. I used to work with a guy who had the top of the line cable package, brand new cell phone with the top plan, but didn't buy health insurance. He could afford it, as it was in the pre ACA days, but chose to spend the money elsewhere. It isn't my obligation to spend my money on him so he can have insurance.

 

[festeringZit]

the poor don't pay more in the form of taxes. We need to ask why these people don't have insurance. The fact is that about half is due to a job situation, either the benefits haven't kicked in yet or they're in-between jobs. Have the employer give the money that they're sending to an insurance company on behalf of the employee and let the employee buy their insurance on the open market. I used to work with a guy who had the top of the line cable package, brand new cell phone with the top plan, but didn't buy health insurance. He could afford it, as it was in the pre aca days, but chose to spend the money elsewhere. it isn't my obligation to spend my money on him so he can have insurance.

qft

 

[halekulani]

health care may not have needed to be a right when people only lived until 65

now that people live to the 80s routinely, i think it's reasonable to think this question is re-addressed. just because it was one way in the past does not mean we should not adapt.

what is the purpose of healthcare for all? to identify preventable diseases and to manage chronic illnesses at a low cost rather than paying for high cost consequences. why do we need to focus on these preventable diseases? because people are living much longer than they used to, and we have expensive treatments to keep them alive when something catastrophic happens (ie. heart attack or stroke).

why shouldn't it be a right? it's not wrong to believe that people need to be held accountable for their actions. however, with such gaps in education and a labor force that is dwindling due to automation by technology, the poorest and least educated continue to suffer from the most preventable diseases. together with the social issues, the cost continues to add up not just per person, but in total due to the increased population numbers among the poorest people in poverty.

there is no right answer because there are logical financial and logistical reasons to not make health care a right (ie. basically it is impossible to afford) that go against the moral answer, which is to provide everyone with health care. that being said, just because something seems impossible, does it mean we should not strive for it?

 

[HugeUnderdog]

guitartosh, The idea is that people with higher incomes pay more taxes but that all depends. When rates go up more people in higher brackets hide their money and the government collects less money, when rates are lower more people pay. The only ones that are stuck paying regardless are the poor class. I don't think its correct to say you are paying for anybody else to get health care, its available for you also. It also goes to set up your pension. Maybe a relative of yours benefits from it. Is that such a bad thing?
I think we have to remind ourselves that poor people are our fellow citizens too and not some kinda parasite. They get exploited more than anybody else and we use them to make ourselves rich. Whats the problem?