Tiz, they didn't invest their money two weeks ago. They've had their money invested for 10 to 30 years. They are well ahead of the game.
man major tankage to close!! this getting ugly
your end of the day recap, will start posting this daily i think
tread started with following prices
dow 13,265.47
oil 77.50
gold 675
usd 80.75
current prices
dow 12790
oil 97.28
gold 799
usd 74.99
keep hanging onto the mutual fund bag bully
it'll come back some day
your end of the day recap, will start posting this daily i think
tread started with following prices
dow 13,265.47
oil 77.50
gold 675
usd 80.75
current prices
dow 12790
oil 97.28
gold 799
usd 74.99
keep hanging onto the mutual fund bag bully
it'll come back some day
well alot have not be saving because they have been overconsuming, going into too much debt, their age expectancy going way up, medical costs going way up, as is inflation in everything else and what they have been saving is being pillied into equities in hopes of continuing to get the gains of the past 5 years
that's not gonna happen
market is down since 2000 willie that's 7 years later my friend
and nasdaq way down since than
also think what could happen right here if those baby boomers who were prudent and have great wealth and are looking to protect what nest egg they built over the last 20-30 decide its time to run and protect their wealth
Japan's Topix Falls 20% From 2007 High, Signaling Bear Market
By Elizabeth Stanton
Nov. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Japan became the first of the world's 10 biggest stock markets to enter a bear market when the Topix index declined 20 percent from its 2007 peak.
The 39-year-old Topix, the broadest gauge of equity prices in the world's second-largest economy, fell 2.1 percent yesterday to 1,438.72, the lowest since October 2005 and down 20.8 percent from its 2007 high of 1,816.97 on Feb. 26.
Japanese companies are struggling with slowing economic growth in the U.S., their largest market for exports, the yen's appreciation and record crude oil prices. The Topix decline from a 15-year high in February signals the government's efforts to revive the economy from more than a decade of inconsistent growth, have hit a snag, investors said.
``Performance potential is limited by a deteriorating economic outlook, both foreign and domestic,'' said Florence Barjou, Paris-based strategist at Lyxor Asset Management, which oversees $100 billion.
The Nikkei-225 Stock Average, created in 1949, is just short of bear market territory. It fell 2.5 percent yesterday to 14,837.66, the lowest since July 2006 and down 18.8 percent from a six-year high of 18,261.98, also on Feb. 26.
The Nikkei is a price-weighted average of 225 Japanese companies including Toyota Motor Corp, Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group and NTT Docomo Inc. with a median market value of 748.9 billion yen ($6.89 billion). The Topix is a capitalization- weighted index of 1,719 companies with a median market value of 469.8 trillion yen.
Less Than Stellar
The Topix decline ``would be an official bear market so to speak, but Japan hasn't been an area of stellar growth for 10 years,'' said Paul Hickey, managing partner at Bespoke Investment Group LLC in Harrison, New York.
Most stock markets have fallen this month, with the U.S. Standard & Poor's 500 Index down 8.6 percent, on pace for its worst month since September 2002. The declines reflect expectations that investment losses created by the biggest slump in housing since 1991 are curbing growth in the world's largest economy.
The MSCI World Index of developed-country shares is down 7.9 percent from a record on Oct. 31, and the MSCI Emerging Markets Index has fallen 11 percent from its high on Oct. 29.
Toyota, the Japanese company with the largest market value, fell 2.8 percent yesterday to a 16-month low amid concern U.S. sales will slow. Toyota is the second-biggest auto seller in the U.S. behind General Motors Corp.
Rising Yen
The yen has strengthened against all 16 major currencies since mid-year, making Japanese products more expensive in other countries. Against the dollar it has gained 9.8 percent, reaching a more than two-year high of 108.51 per dollar yesterday.
Losses in global credit-markets are fueling the yen's rise by spurring investors to sell higher-yielding assets that were purchased with yen borrowed at low interest rates and sold. The Bank of Japan's overnight call rate, the main rate at which banks lend to one another, is 0.5 percent, the lowest among the major economies.
Record crude oil prices, a problem for all manufacturing economies, are a particular disadvantage in Japan, which imports almost all of the oil it uses. Crude oil futures touched a record $99.29 a barrel in New York Mercantile Exchange trading yesterday, and are up 62 percent in the past year.
The Bank of Japan on Oct. 31 cut its growth estimate for the year ending in March to 1.8 percent from 2.1 percent. Reflecting reduced expectations for economic growth, the yield on 10-year Japanese government bonds yesterday fell to a 23-month low of 1.439 percent.
Investors in Japan's stock market have experienced worse over the past two decades than the drop from this year's peaks. In 1990, the Topix lost almost 40 percent of its value and the Nikkei lost almost 39 percent.
By Elizabeth Stanton
Nov. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Japan became the first of the world's 10 biggest stock markets to enter a bear market when the Topix index declined 20 percent from its 2007 peak.
The 39-year-old Topix, the broadest gauge of equity prices in the world's second-largest economy, fell 2.1 percent yesterday to 1,438.72, the lowest since October 2005 and down 20.8 percent from its 2007 high of 1,816.97 on Feb. 26.
Japanese companies are struggling with slowing economic growth in the U.S., their largest market for exports, the yen's appreciation and record crude oil prices. The Topix decline from a 15-year high in February signals the government's efforts to revive the economy from more than a decade of inconsistent growth, have hit a snag, investors said.
``Performance potential is limited by a deteriorating economic outlook, both foreign and domestic,'' said Florence Barjou, Paris-based strategist at Lyxor Asset Management, which oversees $100 billion.
The Nikkei-225 Stock Average, created in 1949, is just short of bear market territory. It fell 2.5 percent yesterday to 14,837.66, the lowest since July 2006 and down 18.8 percent from a six-year high of 18,261.98, also on Feb. 26.
The Nikkei is a price-weighted average of 225 Japanese companies including Toyota Motor Corp, Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group and NTT Docomo Inc. with a median market value of 748.9 billion yen ($6.89 billion). The Topix is a capitalization- weighted index of 1,719 companies with a median market value of 469.8 trillion yen.
Less Than Stellar
The Topix decline ``would be an official bear market so to speak, but Japan hasn't been an area of stellar growth for 10 years,'' said Paul Hickey, managing partner at Bespoke Investment Group LLC in Harrison, New York.
Most stock markets have fallen this month, with the U.S. Standard & Poor's 500 Index down 8.6 percent, on pace for its worst month since September 2002. The declines reflect expectations that investment losses created by the biggest slump in housing since 1991 are curbing growth in the world's largest economy.
The MSCI World Index of developed-country shares is down 7.9 percent from a record on Oct. 31, and the MSCI Emerging Markets Index has fallen 11 percent from its high on Oct. 29.
Toyota, the Japanese company with the largest market value, fell 2.8 percent yesterday to a 16-month low amid concern U.S. sales will slow. Toyota is the second-biggest auto seller in the U.S. behind General Motors Corp.
Rising Yen
The yen has strengthened against all 16 major currencies since mid-year, making Japanese products more expensive in other countries. Against the dollar it has gained 9.8 percent, reaching a more than two-year high of 108.51 per dollar yesterday.
Losses in global credit-markets are fueling the yen's rise by spurring investors to sell higher-yielding assets that were purchased with yen borrowed at low interest rates and sold. The Bank of Japan's overnight call rate, the main rate at which banks lend to one another, is 0.5 percent, the lowest among the major economies.
Record crude oil prices, a problem for all manufacturing economies, are a particular disadvantage in Japan, which imports almost all of the oil it uses. Crude oil futures touched a record $99.29 a barrel in New York Mercantile Exchange trading yesterday, and are up 62 percent in the past year.
The Bank of Japan on Oct. 31 cut its growth estimate for the year ending in March to 1.8 percent from 2.1 percent. Reflecting reduced expectations for economic growth, the yield on 10-year Japanese government bonds yesterday fell to a 23-month low of 1.439 percent.
Investors in Japan's stock market have experienced worse over the past two decades than the drop from this year's peaks. In 1990, the Topix lost almost 40 percent of its value and the Nikkei lost almost 39 percent.
Ill drink to that.
The buy and hold con hasnt worked in Japan for past 18 years.
yeah US following in japans footsteps IMO from when they peaked out in 1990
for the US it began in 2000
i guess we came all the way back on S&P and dow but those rotate all the time
and nasdaq is still well off its 2000 peak by almost 50% still alot of techies out there that won't be around once the next leg down begins AMD will get flushed by intel by example
the 2000 bubble IMO wasn't every allowed to fully deflate and the low near zero interest rates for super long just created more bubbles we'll fall to below the 2002 lows before its all said and done
The word recession is so often used loosely.It does have as pointed out a specific meaning.With that being said,certain sectors are most certainly in recession, the economy as whole will not get there.
BTW-If ever there was an overvaluation bubble it was 2000.NASDAQ had no business ever rising like that,you and I know that.Makes the current real estate pop look like childs play.Bringing those levels up in comparison to its present day performance is simply disingenous.
BTW-If ever there was an overvaluation bubble it was 2000.NASDAQ had no business ever rising like that,you and I know that.Makes the current real estate pop look like childs play.Bringing those levels up in comparison to its present day performance is simply disingenous.
it doesn't look as bad as 2000 on the surface
because its all masked in crazy financial instruments CDOs, SIVs and massive amounts of debt
in 2000 they had tons of cash and were at least growing at crazy rates but obviously it wasn't sustainable and went pop
plus tech's still make me smile
intel at this point is a blue chip stock growth rate wise but still garners a current 27 p/e since its "tech"
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE ON THE EDGE[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]by Greg Silberman
[/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]November 21, 2007
<!-- AddThis Bookmark Button BEGIN --> <script type="text/javascript"> addthis_url = location.href; addthis_title = document.title; addthis_pub = 'financialsense'; </script><script type="text/javascript" src="http://s7.addthis.com/js/addthis_widget.php?v=12"></script>
<!-- AddThis Bookmark Button END -->[/FONT] [FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]The battle for 12,850 continues! [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]We’re writing this article on Wednesday, 21 November 2007 at 11am. By the time you’re reading this article the battle for 12,850 on the Dow might be over. Once this last line of defence gives way the levees may fall.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]So what’s so important about 12,850?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]12,850 marks the closing low on the Dow during last Augusts’ swoon. A break below this level would probably cause further selling. How much more?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]As mentioned above, at the time of this writing the market is weak and it looks as if resistance may fall. This is not to say a White Knight won’t magically enter the picture at the close (as often happens) and save the day. But let’s assume for now that resistance does fall. Is it the end of the world?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]The above chart shows how influential the Yen Carry Trade has been in the stock market. The Yen (bottom) has been rallying since July and has caused all sorts of problems for the Dow. The Yen has recently burst out of a long basing pattern (green line) and has painted a target of around 100. Therefore, if the immediate past is any indication, a 10% rise in the Yen could see the Dow shave off roughly the same and fall to approximately 11,600 (which is a Fibonacci resistance level).[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Incidentally 11,600 is approximately the year 2000 top on the Dow. That level was breached in early 2006 and has never been retested – looks like it will now.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Some Positive Signs emerging out of the Gloom:[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]The market has been led lower by a slew of bad news from the financials. Not a day goes by where some institution isn’t disclosing the extent of their write-downs.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]This incessant selling has caused the banking index to already retest its 2006 breakout levels.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Of interest is the relative weakness in Banks vs. the Dow (bottom). The ratio is approaching stiff multi year resistance and is likely to be repelled lower, indicating in both relative and absolute terms that the fall in the Banking index may be close to over. That would be good for the overall market as banks have been the epicentre of economic woes.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]What’s the Fed’s response?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Will the Fed allow the markets to deflate without a fight?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Based on their recent propensity to reduce interest rates we’d have to say a loud No![/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Thus we have to conclude, whether successful or not, the Fed will go on an all out offensive and print money till the Cows come home. Long-term this can only benefit Gold and Commodity investments.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]NEWSFLASH: Dow got hammered at the close finishing at 12,797 and below critical support. Looks like its time for those 100 Dollar Bill drops Mr. Bernanke[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]
[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]November 21, 2007
<!-- AddThis Bookmark Button BEGIN --> <script type="text/javascript"> addthis_url = location.href; addthis_title = document.title; addthis_pub = 'financialsense'; </script><script type="text/javascript" src="http://s7.addthis.com/js/addthis_widget.php?v=12"></script>
<!-- AddThis Bookmark Button END -->[/FONT] [FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]The battle for 12,850 continues! [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]We’re writing this article on Wednesday, 21 November 2007 at 11am. By the time you’re reading this article the battle for 12,850 on the Dow might be over. Once this last line of defence gives way the levees may fall.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]So what’s so important about 12,850?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]12,850 marks the closing low on the Dow during last Augusts’ swoon. A break below this level would probably cause further selling. How much more?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Chart 1 - Dow Monthly chart; Yen (bottom)[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]As mentioned above, at the time of this writing the market is weak and it looks as if resistance may fall. This is not to say a White Knight won’t magically enter the picture at the close (as often happens) and save the day. But let’s assume for now that resistance does fall. Is it the end of the world?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]The above chart shows how influential the Yen Carry Trade has been in the stock market. The Yen (bottom) has been rallying since July and has caused all sorts of problems for the Dow. The Yen has recently burst out of a long basing pattern (green line) and has painted a target of around 100. Therefore, if the immediate past is any indication, a 10% rise in the Yen could see the Dow shave off roughly the same and fall to approximately 11,600 (which is a Fibonacci resistance level).[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Incidentally 11,600 is approximately the year 2000 top on the Dow. That level was breached in early 2006 and has never been retested – looks like it will now.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Some Positive Signs emerging out of the Gloom:[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]The market has been led lower by a slew of bad news from the financials. Not a day goes by where some institution isn’t disclosing the extent of their write-downs.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]This incessant selling has caused the banking index to already retest its 2006 breakout levels.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Chart 2 - Banking Index retests breakout; Banking Index vs. Dow bellow[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Of interest is the relative weakness in Banks vs. the Dow (bottom). The ratio is approaching stiff multi year resistance and is likely to be repelled lower, indicating in both relative and absolute terms that the fall in the Banking index may be close to over. That would be good for the overall market as banks have been the epicentre of economic woes.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]What’s the Fed’s response?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Will the Fed allow the markets to deflate without a fight?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Based on their recent propensity to reduce interest rates we’d have to say a loud No![/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Thus we have to conclude, whether successful or not, the Fed will go on an all out offensive and print money till the Cows come home. Long-term this can only benefit Gold and Commodity investments.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]NEWSFLASH: Dow got hammered at the close finishing at 12,797 and below critical support. Looks like its time for those 100 Dollar Bill drops Mr. Bernanke[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Verdana]
