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the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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10-Sep-01 1,673.78 1,702.12 1,669.94 1,695.38 1,612,970,000 1,695.38

nazdaq went from 2566 to 1695 (PRIOR to 9/11) after a 50 BP rate cut, it will be a momentary rally....the writing is now on the wall....just gives them time to bail

S&P 1333 to 1094 Jan 4th to sept 10th only 20% haircut there.

guessing we'll see a nice month rally here and than october things will get really hairy, right about that dreaded time of year that brings thoughts of crashes and other things.
 

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10-Sep-01 1,673.78 1,702.12 1,669.94 1,695.38 1,612,970,000 1,695.38

nazdaq went from 2566 to 1695 (PRIOR to 9/11) after a 50 BP rate cut, it will be a momentary rally....the writing is now on the wall....just gives them time to bail

S&P 1333 to 1094 Jan 4th to sept 10th only 20% haircut there.

How were earnings during that time period?
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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who cares about past earnings basehead.....what's important is the american consumer and christmas shopping going forward which i think will be a debacle this holiday season....with rampant inflation, housing plummeting, and ARM resets increasing at a rampant pace right now.

the early months of the year our corporations can hold up peddling their stuff in booming economies overseas while the value of our dollar goes to crap. The last 3 months of the year our economy is very dependent on domestic spending.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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yen selling starting to fizzle after US market close
 

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who cares about past earnings basehead.....what's important is the american consumer and christmas shopping going forward which i think will be a debacle this holiday season....with rampant inflation, housing plummeting, and ARM resets increasing at a rampant pace right now.

the early months of the year our corporations can hold up peddling their stuff in booming economies overseas while the value of our dollar goes to crap. The last 3 months of the year our economy is very dependent on domestic spending.

'Who cares about earnings?' You cant be serious.

When someone spends dude ,someone earns,get it? Strong across the board earnings generally equate to strong consumer spending.Given the past red hot pace of consumer spending a slowdown has been currently underway,a controlled slowdown-but these cuts,including the future ones,because more are coming, will in fact jumpstart things once again to healthy-recession proof status even if it cant match what has occured over the last few years.

Remember even in 2001 there was no recession.

Check back as the Christmas receipts begin to roll in,we'll see how much a hit the big retailers actually take.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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'Who cares about earnings?' You cant be serious.

PAST earnings....investing in the market you are trying to predict future economic growth the past is of little interest as it gives you little guidance as to the future.....

hell companies restate earnings for the past to the downside all the time due to "accounting" issues (mainly tech companies, dell is a recent one that comes to mind)...the markets don't respond to this stuff....

When someone spends dude ,someone earns,get it? Strong across the board earnings generally equate to strong consumer spending.Given the past red hot pace of consumer spending a slowdown has been currently underway,a controlled slowdown-but these cuts,including the future ones,because more are coming, will in fact jumpstart things once again to healthy-recession proof status even if it cant match what has occured over the last few years.

so $100 dollar oil and price pressure across the board is going to jumpstart the economy? While wages aren't keeping up with inflation? if they continue to cut this will be the outcome.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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I'm sure a .5% rate decrease is really gonna help housing...woo hoo a .5% decrease in PRIME rates.....nobody doing sub primes anymore....and i'm sure the few with pristine credit and non home owners aren't too excited to jump right into the market right now....

this is obviously bust central but 15 to 20% drops yoy is crazy

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Prices keep plunging, sales still stalling, default notices soaring

By J.N. SBRANTI
jnsbranti@modbee.com

last updated: September 18, 2007 03:52:50 AM

The housing market news just keeps getting worse for the Northern San Joaquin Valley.

Stanislaus, San Joaquin and Merced coun- ties had the highest foreclosure rates in the country during August. Statistics released today by RealtyTrac showed the valley's homeowners were six times more likely to be in mortgage default last month than the national average.

And home values have plunged. August statistics show home prices fell about 15 percent in Stanislaus and San Joaquin counties and nearly 20 percent in Merced County compared with a year ago, according to Data- Quick Information Systems.

Stanislaus County's median-priced home sold for $315,000 last month. Compare that with the market peak in February 2006 when the county's midpriced home sold for $392,000.


Values have been sliding since. But even at today's dramatically lower prices, home buyers are hard to find.

Only 450 homes sold in Stanislaus County during August. That's a 43 percent drop compared with last year.

Lenders, meanwhile, foreclosed at record rates last month.

RealtyTrac statistics show 407 Stanislaus County homes were repossessed in August. An additional 1,388 of the county's home- owners were served legal mortgage default notices, and 329 more were warned their homes were on the verge of being sold at public auction.

The number of default no- tices, trustee sale notifications and lender repossessions totaled 2,124 in Stanislaus County.

RealtyTrac calculated that such notices went to 1-in-79 homes in Stanislaus County, 1-in-81 homes in San Joaquin County and 1-in-82 homes in Merced County.

The foreclosure notice rate was 1-in-510 homes nationally and 1-in-224 homes throughout California.

"It's amazing to me how those foreclosure numbers continue to go up in your region," said Daren Blomquist, a spokesman for RealtyTrac, which publishes a national database of foreclosure and bank-owned properties. "Your notices of default (the first step in the foreclosure process) don't seem to be decreasing, which indicates you've still got some more pain to go through, unfortunately."

The foreclosure process typically takes a minimum of four months before a home can be repossessed. The process starts with a formal notice of default, then ends with homeowners catching up on payments, selling their homes, renegotiating their loans or losing their homes to lenders.

"What we're hearing from a lot of investors is that there's just not a lot of equity in these properties," Blomquist said.

When homes aren't worth as much as the mortgage on them, usually no one bids for them at foreclosure auctions. Such auctions happen at noon daily on the Stanislaus County Courthouse steps. When no one bids, lenders end up owning the property.

"For people who are being fiscally wise, this could be a pretty good opportunity to buy prop-erty," Blomquist said. "There are a lot of homes at discounted prices out there."

That's particularly true in cities such as Patterson, where median home sales prices have plunged nearly 33 percent during the past year, according to DataQuick records.

Waterford and Atwater prices dropped 24 percent, Lathrop fell 23 percent and Newman declined 22 percent.

Prices in central, western and southern Modesto decreased more than 20 percent.

About the only valley city where home prices haven't declined is Ripon, where the median sales price has stayed about $525,000.

Prices statewide slipped to a median $465,000 in August, down 1.1 percent from a year ago. There were 33,429 new and existing houses and condos sold statewide last month, which was down 34.5 percent from August 2006.

Last month's sales made for the slowest August since 1992 in California.

The typical mortgage payment that California home buyers committed themselves to paying last month was $2,251, according to DataQuick.
 

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Let me just say, I am more surprised at the action of the Yen than anything the Euro is doing. That makes sense....But for the Yen not to be rallying more is tough to figure. I'm missing something on that one. Carry trade still in effect.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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yen got slammed when markets started creaming themselves over the rate cut....world markets move with the yen my friend....all other action really of little consequence or so it seems.
 

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Notice the only currency that didn't rise against the dollar....And boy, I wonder if it matter that in 9 months this year the Canadian dollar has increased 15% against the dollar. 15%. This isn't a stock, this is currency. Good for exports right Willie!!!

Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Canada's dollar rose to the highest since 1977, approaching parity with the U.S. dollar, after the Federal Reserve reduced its benchmark interest rate by a half- percentage point to keep the world's largest economy from slipping into a recession.

The Canadian currency appreciated for a seventh day as the nation's interest-rate differential with its main trading partner narrowed to 25 basis points. Commodities such as crude oil and gold, which account for about half of Canada's exports, also rose on the Fed's move.

The U.S. rate reduction ''increased quite significantly'' the likelihood of the Canadian dollar reaching parity, said Matthew Strauss, a senior currency strategist in Toronto at RBC Capital Markets, a unit of Canada's largest bank by assets. ''This may come in the very near future.''

Canada's dollar rose 1.4 percent to 98.70 U.S. cents at 4:34 p.m. in Toronto. It touched 98.75 U.S. cents, the strongest since January 1977. One U.S. dollar buys C$1.0132.

The Canadian currency has been the best performer against the U.S. dollar so far this year, increasing 15 percent and fueling speculation it will trade at parity for the first time since November 1976. The U.S. dollar fell today against all of the 16 most actively traded currencies tracked by Bloomberg News except the Japanese yen.
 

bushman
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and when it gets to 1 for 1 you guys can call it the Amero.<br>
:dancefool

olé
 

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PAST earnings....investing in the market you are trying to predict future economic growth the past is of little interest as it gives you little guidance as to the future.....

I think youve finally spun yourself silly.Im only bringing up past earnings in regards to the economic picture youre attempting to misrepresent in your 'history' lesson above.Id say if your trying to compare economies from different points on a timeline,earnings and revenue and oh yes terrorists attacks on the heart of the financial world certainly must be taken into consideration.

hell companies restate earnings for the past to the downside all the time due to "accounting" issues (mainly tech companies, dell is a recent one that comes to mind)...the markets don't respond to this stuff....

Interesting tho that in the period (2001) above you mention the GDP was actually adjusted downward which was very uncommon but still positive.Just recently the GDP was adjusted upwards,making your silly comparision to then and now even more farsical and far as restating earnings go.Also tech (since you brought it up)is a great place to put your money in this particular market-as there wont be much downside readjustments coming from the big players (which Dell isnt/wasnt).


so $100 dollar oil and price pressure across the board is going to jumpstart the economy? While wages aren't keeping up with inflation? if they continue to cut this will be the outcome.


When has oil gone down significantly? Now explain to us all why it hasnt impacted folks very much to this point over the past 5 year (30 year?) bear market? Because people will either readjust their habits or pick up the tab for the expensive fuel thats why.Might that pull some capital from consumers pocket books but it will be IMO slight and temporary.

The fact is the weak dollar will have a very real positive effect on many US companies that should help balance what the US might lose on the poor down and out consumer.

Buy GE. I love the stock and talk about guidence-weak dollar spells good times ahead even in the wake of the housing crisis.

------------------

Eek right NOW would be a good time to take some profits-not when you started this foolish thread.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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yes-sir-ee VT

The upward revision to GDP was largely due to an improved trade balance

That weak dollar is just killing our economy, eh? :103631605

Of course, this is why the current administration supports a weakening dollar while leaders of Japan, Europe & even India are complaining about how a weakening dollar is hurting their economies.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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From the BBC
----------------------------------------


<!-- S BO --> <!-- S IIMA --> <table align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="203"><tbody><tr><td>
</td></tr> </tbody></table> <!-- E IIMA --> European leaders have openly blamed the US for the sharp rise in the value of the euro.

Nicolas Sarkozy of France said he and his colleagues were unanimous in their worry that the decline of the dollar would hit Europe's economies by eating into their exports.

Economists point out that whatever Europe says, in the short term a weaker dollar is a boon to President George W Bush's administration.
Not only does it boost US exports, but it also makes the budget deficit easier to fund.



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Hey VT, tell the leaders & economists of Europe, Japan & India that the weak dollar is not bad for their economy and good for ours. They too seem to be getting backwards!


:lol:




 

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Willie its like talking to a wall. Even Basehead of all people is starting to realize the implications.

Simply put tell me the countries in history who have gone down the tubes because of a strong currency. Now how many countries do you want me to name who shit the bed because of a weak one. Again, if it is a good thing, why don't we just devalue the hell out of it. Explain!! At what point does it become a bad thing? In your world, never. Come out of the dark side. Maybe the best article I've seen on this lately is posted below. Read it twice and tell me this guy has no clue. And for everyone else. Worth reading. C'mon Willie, I'll be waiting for a clear concise response for when I get home tonight, working late so give me some time.

Page 1 of 2
US rate cuts: Like a blow to the head

By Julian Delasantellis

Zhou Xiaochuan, the governor of the Bank of China, must sympathize with the plight of poor Raoul, the waiter whose good service is rewarded with a brick to the back of his head.

In a 2004 episode of the US cable network series The Sopranos , New Jersey mafia boss Tony Soprano takes the senior leadership of his crime family to an expensive dinner at a casino restaurant in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

There they enjoy multiple rounds of the best cuts of steak, lobster and the finest beverages; it is Tony's nephew and heir apparent, the sobriety-, impulse-control-, fidelity- and literary-talent-

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challenged would-be part-time Hollywood screenwriter and full-time thug Christopher Moltisanti who gets stuck with the US$1,184 check.

Christopher is none too happy with this situation; he is particularly enraged that his fellow goomba Paulie "Walnuts" Gualtieri sent over an expensive bottle of Cristal to two young ladies he classified as "skanks" at an adjoining table. He leaves a $16 tip, for an even $1,200. The waiter, Raoul, is none too pleased with this, and he comes out to the parking lot to complain to Christopher about his stinginess.

There was no problem with his service; he feels he deserves more. Standard American tipping protocol calls for gratuities to amount to about 15% of the check, which, in this case, would have called for a $177.60 tip.

Christopher is in no mood for interlocution. As in most scenes in The Sopranos up to and including solemn religious observations, the situation rapidly descends to exchanges of rank obscenities. As Raoul turns away to return to work, Christopher throws a brick that hits the waiter in the head. As Raoul writhes on the ground, unconscious in an epileptic-type fit, for good measure, Paulie comes over, shoots and kills him.

I bet that, in the middle of the night Beijing time, after he became aware of the results of Tuesday's meetings of the US Federal Reserve Board, Zhou Xiaochuan, the man in charge of China's one and a half trillion dollars of foreign exchange reserves, sympathized with the plight of poor Raoul. After all, in deploying its foreign exchange reserves to buy US Treasury securities to keep US interest rates low, and by not converting its US dollar export proceeds into other currencies, China has served the US well.

And the thanks he gets is Fed chief Ben Bernanke hitting him on the head with a brick.

In an extraordinary meeting of the United States Federal Reserve on Tuesday, the board shocked the financial world (very much including me) by announcing interest rate cuts far more extensive than previously expected. The expectation was that the cuts would have been limited to just a single 0.25-percentage-point (25 basis point) cut in the benchmark Federal Funds target rate; instead, the Fed reduced the target rate 50 basis points, along with a second 50 basis point cut (the first was on August 17) in a less commonly reported but possibly more important rate that the Federal Reserve also controls, the Federal Reserve discount rate.

This is a complete rejection of the policy of former Fed chief Alan Greenspan of slow and gradual interest rate changes so as to assure the markets that they will not be continually surprised by unexpected Federal Reserve actions, a policy that Bernanke had been maintaining during the previous 19 months of his tenure.

The contrast between Tuesday's meeting result and the sunny optimism of the previous Fed meeting on August 7 is breathtaking; it is far and away the most ominous portent of the future prospects of the US economy since the current "subprime crisis" broke into the market's consciousness earlier this year. Comparing the results of the August meeting with Tuesday's is like going to the doctor wanting to have a hangnail removed and having the physician start his conversation by asking how you feel about cremation.

Clearly, this is an indication that the Fed feels that the surface calm that has returned to world equity markets since the discount rate cut is illusory. Contributing to this must be the actions by the Bank of England to once again bail out the troubled Newcastle-based Northern Rock bank. A crisis that began in the overheated condominium markets of southern California and Florida has spread across the globe.

The fact that the Fed chose to lower both the funds and discount rates is indicative of the uniquely serious nature of this crisis.

As I explained in my August 21 Asia Times Online article, When the big guns fail, call in China, the discount rate and the Federal Funds rate are two very separate monetary policy instruments. The funds rate (lowered on Tuesday, for the first time in four years, to 4.75%) is customarily the lower of the two; it governs the interest paid by big banks when they initiate short-term lending and borrowing between each other.

The Federal Reserve sets a "target" point for this rate; when they think that the economy is growing too fast, threatening inflation, they raise the target, as they did 17 times between 2004 and 2006. Likewise, when they are fearful of an economic slowdown, they lower the target, as they did on Tuesday. The Fed effects these target rate changes through either buying or selling Treasury securities in its portfolio, to either provide or drain sufficient liquidity from the system to move the market rate to the target rate.

The discount rate is always meant to be higher than the funds rate. This is the rate at which the Federal Reserve will directly lend to banks shut out of the private Federal funds market due to concerns about their soundness; it is higher than the Federal Funds rate because the Fed wants to be available, but not easy. Lowering the Fed Funds rate is the preferred policy choice when the problem the Fed wants to address is feeling that there is generalized economic weakness.

Discount window borrowing is considered the most effective tool for times such as now, when certain banks and other financial institutions are being denied access to Federal funds loans because of fears of their connection with the subprime market. However, the Fed had already lowered the discount rate 50 basis points on August 17, to 5.75%. If they had lowered it another 50 basis points without lowering the funds target, the funds target would have been even with the discount rate, at 5.25%. So what we really saw on Tuesday was another discount rate cut masked by a Federal Funds target rate cut.

To me, the most remarkable thing about these events is that they demonstrate the breathtaking disregard that US economic policy makers have regarding the value and fate of their own national currency. Richard Nixon-era secretary of the treasury John Connolly, speaking to European economic officials, once said that the US dollar was "our currency, but your problem". The country could get away with that back in the early 1970s, when the US was the world's biggest lender; now that this situation is reversed, and the country must borrow $2-3 billion from foreigners each and every day just to feed its overconsumption addiction.

The market reaction to this Fed move was about as expected as the day's sunrise - a sharp fall in the US dollar. The greenback finally breached the record 1.4 level versus the euro; it has now fallen 15% against the euro since early 2006, 63% since early 2001.

Still, none of this had any effect on the drunken bacchanalia that erupted on Wall Street following the announcement. The Dow Jones Industrial Average soared 336 points, 2.51%, to 13,739.

US rate cuts: Like a blow to the head
By Julian Delasantellis

CNBC's Maria Bartiromo was so gushingly giddy in her coverage of the rally that you would have thought that Starbucks had opened a coffee stand in her electroshock therapy suite.

Shares of broker/dealer industry companies had a particularly fine afternoon; Goldman Sachs rose 7%. If you accept the thesis from my article of this past Monday, September 17, A rate cut with a shoeshine and a smile that Federal Reserve chiefs are, in reality, nothing but glorified salesman for the US financial services

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industry, then Tuesday saw a particularly glowing employee evaluation placed in Bernanke's file.

Very few other countries have ever been able to make such whoopee as their national currencies are being debased. In 1981, newly elected French socialist president Francois Mitterrand had to abandon his campaign promises for an ambitious social equality program when currency traders started to sell the franc hard against the West German mark.

In 1993, when US labor secretary Robert Reich urged an expansive social welfare/jobs reflationary fiscal program; newly elected president Bill Clinton nixed this idea when treasury secretary Robert Rubin advised the president that this would cause both the US dollar and bond prices to fall. When their currencies were hit by speculative attacks, the countries most affected by the 1997 East Asian financial crisis, primarily Thailand, Indonesia and South Korea, were forced to make painful cuts in their national social welfare spending.

But it seems that the US is never forced to face such dolorous consequences as its currency weakens. Its policymakers initiate policies that they know full well will weaken the US dollar, and they just don't care. It's almost as if the nation can pay for goods with checks it knows the other party will never cash; if you could do this, you'd probably be living pretty large too.

This is particularly true in the case of China. China's foreign exchange reserves are now approaching the trillion and a half dollar level, and this massive wad of cash is mostly kept as US dollars. China has earned this treasure through being the gleaming supermall for the shop-till-you-drop obsession that has swept the US, and to a lesser extent the rest of the Western world, this decade.

What Ben Bernanke is saying with his sharp interest rate cuts, and what the nation is affirming its approval of with the orgiastic stock market response that followed, is that it continues to hold no other value higher than the pleasure to be attained through its own excess consumption. In depreciating the value of the currency it uses to pay China for its goods, the US is telling China that it has no intention of paying China the full value for what it buys from it; that would be unacceptable, it would mean that there would be less money to buy even more stuff.

Of course, China does not have to continue to put up with this. It could stop accepting the funny money dollars, the depreciating greenbacks with Mickey Mouse's picture on the face instead of George Washington's. China could convert its foreign exchange reserves into other currencies by selling its dollars. As this would severely reduce the demand for US Treasuries in which China parks its reserves, US interest rates would have to rise sharply to re-attract the securities demand lost from China, and there would be little or nothing that Bernanke, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, President George W Bush, or even the US's first infallible-by-decree army general staff officer, the Blessed Holy Father General St David Petraeus, could do about it.

This would not be an easy thing for China to do, so the US feels China will not do it. If China actually did try to publicly sell all or a large part of its dollar portfolio the prices of the dollar assets remaining in the portfolio would undoubtedly fall sharply; China could lose a lot more than it gained. Still, Bernanke has just told China that, come hell or high water, he fully intends to filch away the value of their reserves. Maybe China could decide that it's a choice between losing a lot of money, fast, by selling its dollars, or losing a lot more, slowly, by keeping its dollars.

Like pulling off a Band-Aid, it probably hurts less to do it fast. Or, China could do it smart, slow and gradual; that's the way China likes to manage change. There are some indications that this is exactly what is happening. From a level of over $160 billion a year in 2006, Tuesday's US Treasury Department's Treasury International Capital (TIC) report, released a few hours before the Fed meeting and so thus totally ignored, showed that foreign (like the Chinese central bank) buying of US government securities actually turned negative in July. (I wrote about the implications of TIC data in my March 24, 2006 ATol article, US living on borrowed time - and money).

China probably is already diversifying away from the US dollar, but among all the cacophonous noise of the glorious roiling tsunami of inanity that is US public life, the actual signal information is being missed.

There were a few disquieting responses to the Fed move. Crude oil continued its recent record breaking rise, topping $82 a barrel. This market knows that, unlike China, the members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) long ago made clear that they would not accept depreciating dollars in exchange for their non-renewable export assets; oil prices go up as the US dollar goes down. China seems to be learning from OPEC's example.

The most interesting aspect of Tuesday's market responses to the Fed cuts may be the most massively under-reported - the fact that the only one of the Dow 30 stocks that did not rally on the news was, curiously enough, Boeing. Boeing got some bad news on Tuesday with some press questions regarding the potential crash survivability of its new 787 Dreamliner, but, in a market move like Tuesday's, even that type of report is usually ignored. The market wisdom for rally days like Tuesday is that these are times when "even the [scatological term] floats to the top".

I see the Boeing stock price divergence as more of an indication that, with Boeing so dependent on Chinese airline demand, the company may be in big trouble if China really does act to reduce its economic relationship and dependence on the US.

On an episode of the old 1970s CBS-TV situation comedy The Mary Tyler Moore Show, it once was suggested in the fictional television newsroom where the show was set that, since the previous night's newscast had done so well in the ratings, they should get out the script and broadcast it again - why mess with success?

In that spirit, since this Federal Reserve move has apparently gone over so well, (with the only constituency that really matters in the US, upper and upper middle class investors) there will probably be more cuts at the next Fed meeting in late October should there be further bad subprime or economic news, which there undoubtedly will be.

How long will the nation get away with the debasement of its own currency and the defrauding of its lenders? I have no idea. I find it most amazing that, in its actions, the nation is ignoring the very principle at the heart of the subprime crisis the Federal Reserve's actions are trying to remedy. To their own misery, the subprime borrowers have learnt the lesson that the nation has yet to learn. You can't forever live in a house, or in a consumer lifestyle, that you cannot afford.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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some people including the current administration just can't think beyond the short term VT...weak dollar may be good for corporate profits in american companies near term but will have major negative long term repercussions
 

Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit
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every hierarchy only think shortsighted

its a survival mechanism
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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Nother hedgie in trouble 48% haircut today on the market....nothing to see here move along....

bank of england to the rescue again?

a 100 million withdrawn in a short period of time from a 3.25 billion hedge fund causes major problems?....sheesh the amount of leverage these guys have on must be astronomical at this point

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September 19, 2007
Absolute fights for survival as $100m exits
New chief executive Jonathan Treacher says he is considering all options, including calling in administrators

Absolute Capital Management, the $3.25 billion London listed hedge fund, was fighting for its survival today after investors rushed for the exit in the wake of the departure of Florian Homm, its co-founder and former chief investment officer.

Absolute said that it would be forced to freeze some of its $2 billion of equity funds after it received $100 million of redemption notices yesterday following Mr Homm's highly charged public exit.

And it admitted that as much as $500 million of "event driven" equity investments managed by Mr Homm had been channelled into obscure American companies that could be difficult to exit and might realise a lot less than their mark-to-market value.

Shares in Absolute, which only listed last March, slumped 48 per cent today, trading 57p lower at just 61.5p. The hedge fund's market value has collapsed from £389 million at the beginning of the week to less then £65 million today.

Jonathan Treacher, the chief executive, told The Times that Absolute would spend the coming days trying to convince investors not to withdraw more funds.

He said it was not clear how many investors were trying to redeem cash today, although he acknowledged that "people have been calling up all over the place" in an effort to establish what was going on.

Mr Treacher, who has only been in the job since mid-August, said Absolute's future would become clear "over the next week". He admitted that if Absolute were to suffer "a big run of redemptions" it would be forced to sell off assets to meet repayments.

"What you want to avoid is being a forced seller of assets. The most important thing we can do is preserve investors' money in the funds," he said.

"We are looking at all options. Our first is to go to the people who are investors in the funds," he said. Mr Treacher, who stressed that "the ship has not sunk".

He said options include freezing the funds to prevent further withdrawals and if necessary calling in the administrators to arrange an orderly sale of the assets.

Sandy Chen at Panmure Gordon slashed his price target on Absolute from 750p to 150p, after the hedge fund proposed a restructuring of the equity funds so that the illiquid assets were channelled into a "side pocket" share class.

"In current markets, we do not think approval of the equity funds' restructuring, especially the 12-month lock-in, can be a foregone conclusion, making it possible that ACMH will face major redemptions," Mr Chen said.

"We also highlight the risk of investor lawsuits as an unquantifiable threat to earnings."

Mr Chen said the valuation problems "could prove fatal for the equity funds".

Absolute operates a total of $3.2 billion of assets under management and stressed that more than $1 billion of this was unaffected.

Mr Treacher said he had not been in contact with Mr Homm in recent days and suggested that legal against against its former investment star was a possibility.
 

Living...vicariously through myself.
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While its good to keep an eye on the long term ,you guys are waiting on something that may never come.Its not a given in other words.To compare the US economy and what makes it tick to any other a bit naive.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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Saudi's getting restless over the falling dollar as well....things slowly unraveling beneath the surface

Go weak dollar its good for america!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fears of dollar collapse as Saudis take fright

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor
Last Updated: 7:29pm BST 19/09/2007

Saudi Arabia has refused to cut interest rates in lockstep with the US Federal Reserve for the first time, signalling that the oil-rich Gulf kingdom is preparing to break the dollar currency peg in a move that risks setting off a stampede out of the dollar across the Middle East.
# China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales

"This is a very dangerous situation for the dollar," said Hans Redeker, currency chief at BNP Paribas.
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"Saudi Arabia has $800bn (£400bn) in their future generation fund, and the entire region has $3,500bn under management. They face an inflationary threat and do not want to import an interest rate policy set for the recessionary conditions in the United States," he said.

The Saudi central bank said today that it would take "appropriate measures" to halt huge capital inflows into the country, but analysts say this policy is unsustainable and will inevitably lead to the collapse of the dollar peg.

As a close ally of the US, Riyadh has so far tried to stick to the peg, but the link is now destabilising its own economy.

The Fed's dramatic half point cut to 4.75pc yesterday has already caused a plunge in the world dollar index to a fifteen year low, touching with weakest level ever against the mighty euro at just under $1.40.

There is now a growing danger that global investors will start to shun the US bond markets. The latest US government data on foreign holdings released this week show a collapse in purchases of US bonds from $97bn to just $19bn in July, with outright net sales of US Treasuries.

The danger is that this could now accelerate as the yield gap between the United States and the rest of the world narrows rapidly, leaving America starved of foreign capital flows needed to cover its current account deficit -- expected to reach $850bn this year, or 6.5pc of GDP.


Mr Redeker said foreign investors have been gradually pulling out of the long-term US debt markets, leaving the dollar dependent on short-term funding. Foreigners have funded 25pc to 30pc of America's credit and short-term paper markets over the last two years.

"They were willing to provide the money when rates were paying nicely, but why bear the risk in these dramatically changed circumstances? We think that a fall in dollar to $1.50 against the euro is not out of the question at all by the first quarter of 2008," he said.

"This is nothing like the situation in 1998 when the crisis was in Asia, but the US was booming. This time the US itself is the problem," he said.


Mr Redeker said the biggest danger for the dollar is that falling US rates will at some point trigger a reversal yen "carry trade", causing massive flows from the US back to Japan.

Jim Rogers, the commodity king and former partner of George Soros, said the Federal Reserve was playing with fire by cutting rates so aggressively at a time when the dollar was already under pressure.

The risk is that flight from US bonds could push up the long-term yields that form the base price of credit for most mortgages, the driving the property market into even deeper crisis.

"If Ben Bernanke starts running those printing presses even faster than he's already doing, we are going to have a serious recession. The dollar's going to collapse, the bond market's going to collapse. There's going to be a lot of problems," he said.

The Federal Reserve, however, clearly calculates the risk of a sudden downturn is now so great that the it outweighs dangers of a dollar slide.

Former Fed chief Alan Greenspan said this week that house prices may fall by "double digits" as the subprime crisis bites harder, prompting households to cut back sharply on spending.

For Saudi Arabia, the dollar peg has clearly become a liability. Inflation has risen to 4pc and the M3 broad money supply is surging at 22pc.

The pressures are even worse in other parts of the Gulf. The United Arab Emirates now faces inflation of 9.3pc, a 20-year high. In Qatar it has reached 13pc.

Kuwait became the first of the oil sheikhdoms to break its dollar peg in May, a move that has begun to rein in rampant money supply growth.

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