sell! sell! sell!

Search

Triple digit silver kook
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
13,697
Tokens
its called overcapacity

so who's gonna buy all their stuff?

they are still hugely dependent on exports

look at starbucks they got one on every street corner but now they in a heap of shit cause nobody wants to pay 5 bucks for a cup of joe

they are going to buy their own stuff and people here are going to live with less.

thats the part of this story that people here dont want to hear....the standard of living here is falling and its going to continue falling until we repay our debt and can again produce goods competitively

not saying they are going to equal the consumption of present day america within the next 20 years, but if they increase their consumption 50% from present, alot of materials are going to be needed to produce, transport, and use those products.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
exports already slowing 2 year low in growth on export side

also just seeing the cities in china don't tell you the whole story, obviously the cities right now are nuts

but travel to other 90% of china's vast landscape and you will see a different reality i'm sure

---------------------------------------

Jan. 11 (Bloomberg) -- China's trade surplus narrowed for a second month as export growth slowed, signaling that the fastest economic expansion in 13 years may have peaked.

The surplus for December shrank to $22.7 billion from $26.2 billion in November, the Chinese customs bureau said in a statement on its Web site today, lower than the $24.4 billion median estimate of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News.

Exports grew at the slowest pace in two years, indicating that recent yuan gains, the cooling global expansion and cuts to export-tax incentives on polluting industries are beginning to bite. For 2007, the trade gap surged 48 percent to a record $262.2 billion, giving U.S. and European officials ammunition to keep calling for faster appreciation of the yuan.

``Slower export growth may help China achieve a soft landing,'' said Wang Tao, head of economics and strategy for Greater China at Bank of America Corp. in Beijing. ``China's economic expansion may have peaked last year.''

Shipments rose 21.7 percent in December to $114.4 billion, compared with last month's 22.8 percent and the slowest since December 2005 excluding distortions from Lunar New Year holidays in January and February.

After the figures were released, the yuan rose to the highest since a dollar peg was scrapped in 2005, trading at 7.2620 per dollar at the close in Shanghai. The currency, which advanced for a fifth week, has climbed 14 percent since the link was scrapped. The CSI 300 Index of shares rose 0.5 percent to the highest since Oct. 17.

The yuan advanced 7 percent against the dollar in 2007, twice as fast as in 2006, partly because the central bank boosted interest rates to a nine-year high.

Lenovo's Computer Sales

Shares of Lenovo Group Ltd., which bought IBM Corp.'s personal computer business in 2005, slumped 23 percent in Hong Kong this week on concern slowing global growth will cut demand.

Television sales at TCL Multimedia Technology Holdings Ltd., a unit of China's biggest consumer electronics maker, slumped 33 percent in November from a year earlier.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet led teams to China over the past two months pressing China to let the yuan rise further and ease trade tensions.

``Pressure on China to let its currency appreciate faster won't stop because the surplus is still getting bigger,'' said Xing Zhiqiang, an economist at China International Capital Corp. in Beijing. Xing expects the yuan to rise 10 percent in 2008.

China's economy expanded 11.5 percent in 2007, the fastest pace in 13 years, according to government forecasts. Wang estimates it will grow between 8 percent and 10 percent over the next three to five years.

Polluting Products

``Government measures to curb export growth of energy- consuming and polluting products and to lower import tariffs have effectively curbed further widening of the trade surplus,'' the customs bureau said in a statement on its Web site today. ``Policy adjustments achieved initial results.''

China reduced export-tax incentives twice last year on products including pig iron and nickel. New tax rules to slow exports of some other steel products that took effect on Jan. 1 may cool shipment growth further. Steel-product exports fell 14 percent in December from a year earlier.

The tax measures were, in part, a response to pressure from trading partners. The European Union in November threatened to introduce tariffs to shield producers such as ArcelorMittal.

``Exports will decline further this year as higher taxes make Chinese prices less competitive,'' Liu Yuanrui and Shao Wenzhong, analysts at Changjiang Securities Co., wrote in a report today.

Made in China

Imports climbed 25.7 percent in December to $91.7 billion, maintaining the previous month's 25.3 percent pace of expansion.

Government policy makers last month named inflation and the risk that the economy will overheat as its two main concerns for 2008 and said the People's Bank of China would pursue a ``tight monetary policy.''

The policy is designed to slow the rate at which cash has been funneled into building thousands of factories, many of which may become idle should export demand dwindle too fast.

Policy makers are trying to prevent the economy from overheating in the face of risks that global growth will stall and slash demand for Chinese-made goods.

``If exports slow in China, you'll see a lot of overcapacity, you'll see margins collapse, you'll see deflation and you'll see a lot of non-performing loans,'' said Huang Yiping, chief Asia economist at Citigroup Inc. in Hong Kong.

A 1 percentage point slowdown in the U.S. would trim China's export growth by 4 percentage points and reduce gross domestic product by 0.5 percentage point, according to Ma Jun, chief China economist at Deutsche Bank AG in Hong Kong.

Morgan Stanley forecast last month that growth in China's shipments abroad may slow to 16 percent in 2008. Imports will increase 18 percent, the investment bank predicted.

``A U.S. slowdown will hit China's other export markets too -- and that we think will likely have a knock-on impact upon China's own investment growth,'' said Stephen Green, an economist at Standard Chartered Plc in Hong Kong.
 

Triple digit silver kook
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
13,697
Tokens
Does that article include anything about demand within China for Chinese goods?

Thats the part of the equation that many people here always fail to recognize...China isnt building all this capacity solely to send the goods to the US in exchange for all our fiat paper dollars.

Good convo here today, but I have a hs bball game to attend this evening.

Deflation in what? Yes, I agree there is and will continue with deflation in CERTAIN things. However, commodities, are a different story.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
4,000
Tokens
Would be more fun if Willie and Baseblock would come in but I guess I wouldn't want to now either with the barbarians at the gate....Now its become a conversation between Doom and Woolf. Need more in here to be honest, other Bush Boom Bats.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
Does that article include anything about demand within China for Chinese goods?

Thats the part of the equation that many people here always fail to recognize...China isnt building all this capacity solely to send the goods to the US in exchange for all our fiat paper dollars.

Good convo here today, but I have a hs bball game to attend this evening.

Deflation in what? Yes, I agree there is and will continue with deflation in CERTAIN things. However, commodities, are a different story.

china has no middle class to sop it up

they have people in the cities doing well, exporting their low quality garbage

and they have hoards of poor people doing shitty dealing with rampant inflation
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
Would be more fun if Willie and Baseblock would come in but I guess I wouldn't want to now either with the barbarians at the gate....Now its become a conversation between Doom and Woolf. Need more in here to be honest, other Bush Boom Bats.

yeah you know things are bad when me and DAW are going at it

:toast:

in what basically amounts to the hyperinflation vs. deflation end game argument

i'm not hugely in the deflation camp but i hold out the possiblity, and honestly everybody better hope this don't play out

cause that's when the other D word will come into play
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
4,000
Tokens
yeah you know things are bad when me and DAW are going at it

in what basically amounts to the hyperinflation vs. deflation end game argument

:toast:

Look to me deflation in housing is the only deflation I see. Stagflation is the one here. And it doesn't have to be hyper to sink us anymore. We are bleeding. Slow bleed over the past years has turned into a faster one now.

Its a standard of living issue. Collectively our standard of living will decrease as sure shit. Wherever you are on the spectrum this will occur. But it will take time.
 

Triple digit silver kook
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
13,697
Tokens
seriously i really have to get ready for this game.

dow jones 14k last year

oil 100

gold 900

wheat record high

gasoline 3 bucks a gallon

dozen of eggs $2

tuition is 2X more for a single 3 hour class part time semester now than what I paid 15 years ago for 18 hours full course load per semester.

million dollar trailers in california.

Inflation or deflation?

:missingte
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
seriously i really have to get ready for this game.

dow jones 14k last year

oil 100

gold 900

wheat record high

gasoline 3 bucks a gallon

dozen of eggs $2

tuition is 2X more for a single 3 hour class part time semester now than what I paid 15 years ago for 18 hours full course load per semester.

million dollar trailers in california.

Inflation or deflation?

:missingte

i'm talking going forward 1-2 years from now

at that point we will see where prices of goods are, maybe your right they will be much higher we shall see

obviously the "bush boom" :tongue2: was aided by the commodity boom, weak dollar, and credit boom

as i've said before i was hyper PM bull years back

so far the credit boom (housing including) coming to a screetching halt

will the commodity boom continue or fall on its face

we shall see
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
also just a little food for thought

USD was 79 on sept 18th when fed cut from 5.25 to 4.75

now we are at 4.25 and 1/4 point cut already priced in maybe even 1/2 point cut on jan 30th

and dollar holding up okay at 76

what's gonna happen when/if they get to zero?
 

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
365
Tokens
Tiznow, Ive been to China and most of the other countries in SE Asia several times the past 2.5 years.

Their malls look pretty crowded when Im there.

China alone is building 50-100 airports.

There are building cranes throughout the sky as far as eyes can see.

Cities such as Shenzhen in southern China near Hong Kong, 25 years ago was a fishing village of 50,000 people. Today, due to the industrialization in China and throughout the rest of Asia, is a mega city of 15-20 million.

You won't see a ricksaw there unless its inside a museum. What you will see, are at least 1,000 skyscrapers, multi-story apt bldgs, cars (yes, like the ones we drive here) everywhere, mcdonalds, kfc, wall-mart, large hotels, bars, restaurants, factories, malls, other than the excessive pollution, it easily could be mistaken as a American city.

There are HUNDREDS of cities in China and elsewhere in Asia that will soon closely resemble Shenzhen.

d1g1t
I go to Asia every year. It is laughable how people here seem to have the belief that the USA is king and and everywhere else is playing catchup. Ha Ha. Singapore is more modern, organized and efficient than anything the US has seen. The largest shoppping malls in the world are scattered though Malaysia, Thailand, and China.The public transportation they have makes us look like idiots and baffoons. (albiet congested). I would be equally as happy flying economy on several Asian airlines than NWA business class (another joke!). People working in a Burger King will try and upsell you fries as if thier life depended on it. due to fewer "democratic" freeload programs, people actually bust their asses to work and make money becuase nobody is giving them a handout. The bottom line is that the most unfortunate people you may find in Loas or Cambodia are happier than the most of the "fortunate" people that live in their own wallowing and jealousy here.
 

Dr. Is IN
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Messages
5,524
Tokens
Well an update on my gs trade...As stated earlier I covered half my position when gs hit 200 today....still like it short...just was a bit to early IMO.....Well I'm sure you know how I feel today...Going to have a couple of drinks and see if next week will hold better for gs....going down please
 

Breaking Bad Snob
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
13,430
Tokens
Yo, tiz, how can a 1/4 point cut already be priced in when the market has tanked almost every day?

I've been holding IVV expecting a short bull run up until the 30th, then I was dumping it before closing. Should I dump this dog now?
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
Yo, tiz, how can a 1/4 point cut already be priced in when the market has tanked almost every day?

I've been holding IVV expecting a short bull run up until the 30th, then I was dumping it before closing. Should I dump this dog now?

1/4 is DEFINETELY already priced in

futures markets saying 100% chance of quarter point weeks ago

they might go 1/2 point but won't matter, markets may like it momentarily

10 year bond at 3.81% so close to 3.75% (1/2 point cut)

i would only be long individual issues that have been beaten down hard or conservative long term plays

no way i'd be long S&P ETF that's for sure
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
I would put a 20% chance of 75bps. 50 is baked in the cake. Intermeeting no less.

they wouldn't dare move inter meeting

unless we crash or take a huge haircut between now and 30th

S&P only like 11% off its october highs no reason to go crazy....

i'm guessing 50 bp

75 bp would reak of panic

fed has to play its cards as to not look panicky but at the same time seem like they are being helpful to the cause

at this point the feds job is to keep the markets fairly calm as it slides into the abyss

plus they only have 4.25% of room left to work with to the downside gotta use your ammo and fedspeak to go along with it accordingly
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
looks like jan 17th the next upcoming day for ben fed speak

even the bolded fed speak from today did nothing for the markets

you could be right VT hmm....check the second bold....i still doubt it...

------------------------------------------------------------

Fed Signals Shift as Traders Anticipate Deeper Rate Reductions

By Craig Torres

Jan. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Federal Reserve officials signaled they've shifted their stance in favor of taking out greater ``insurance'' against the growing risk of recession.

Fed Governor Frederic Mishkin said today that policy makers must be ready to abandon ``inertia'' and act ``decisively'' in cases of major financial disruptions. Philadelphia Fed Bank President Charles Plosser, whom economists consider to be the toughest on inflation, said he's now most concerned about consumer spending.

The comments, following Chairman Ben S. Bernanke's speech yesterday pledging ``substantive additional action,'' spurred traders to predict a faster and deeper pace of interest-rate cuts. That strategy would be a break from the forecast-driven policy approach to date, Fed watchers said. Mishkin joined Bernanke in stating the strategy is now one of ``insurance.''

``I am delighted the Fed is moving in a very different direction,'' said former Fed governor Lyle Gramley, now a senior adviser at the Stanford Group in Washington. ``Risk-management is what they should be doing.''

Mishkin, 57, a former collaborator with Bernanke on academic research, said in New York today that ``waiting too long to ease policy could result in further deterioration of the macroeconomy and might well increase the overall amount of easing that would eventually be needed.''

Disappointing Markets

While the Fed cut the benchmark rate by a half-point, more than anticipated in September, officials have since disappointed some investors by refusing to commit to a series of reductions. When lowering borrowing costs in October and December by a quarter-point each, policy makers refrained from saying that growth was a bigger concern than inflation.

By the time they met Dec. 11, officials acknowledged that the Fed's stance ``appeared to be somewhat restrictive,'' minutes of the session showed last week.

``They underestimated the magnitude of the credit shock,'' said Brian Sack, senior economist at Macroeconomic Advisers LLC in Washington. ``The markets got it a lot faster than the Fed and now they are catching up.''

Plosser, 59, said he's ``certainly'' open to more rate cuts, in an interview with PBS's Nightly Business Report today. By contrast, when he spoke Nov. 27 he warned that the Fed's rate cut the previous month posed a risk to inflation expectations.

``The most thing we are concerned about right now is consumer spending,'' Plosser said today.

Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren, 50, said today in South Burlington, Vermont that declining house prices are ``likely to dampen consumer and business confidence in spending.''

`Gasoline on the Fire'

``Rosengren, Plosser and especially Mishkin arguably poured more gasoline on the fire'' after Bernanke's remarks, Ian Morris, chief economist at HSBC Securities USA Inc., said in a note to clients. ``The market is betting that the Fed may cut in an inter-meeting move,'' wrote Morris, who yesterday doubled his rate-cut call for this month to a half-point.

Traders anticipate at least a half-point reduction in the target rate for overnight loans between banks this month, according to contracts quoted on the Chicago Board of Trade.

Odds of 0.75 percentage point of reductions this month jumped to 34 percent, from zero yesterday, futures show. That suggests some investors see the chance of a move before the Federal Open Market Committee meets Jan. 29-30, with an additional cut when it gathers.

Bernanke's Opportunity

Bernanke, 54, will have another opportunity to send signals on rates Jan. 17, when he testifies on the economic outlook before the House Budget Committee.

This week's shift may have been driven by the Labor Department's Jan. 4 report showing the jobless rate jumped to 5 percent in December, economists said. The figures also showed the first decline in private-sector employment since 2003.

``We stand ready to take substantive additional action as needed to support growth and to provide adequate insurance against downside risks,'' the Fed chief said to the Women in Housing and Finance and Exchequer Club in Washington. ``The committee must remain exceptionally alert and flexible.''
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
hmm....34% chance of 75 bp cut the futures show, still think they will cut 50 bp at the meeting though

unless things really get going to downside between now and than...
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
was taking a gander at some world markets

so much for winning the "war"

jkse=indonesia most muslim of the group
klse=malaysia 2nd most muslim of the group
sti=not muslim chinese run the show, singapore was kicked out of malyasia used to be a state in malaysia
gspc=S&P

got a malaysian friend, muslim over there basically muslim fascists and run the show, they also recently put the gold dinar in circulation, chinese looked down upon

food for thought

----------------------------------
 
Last edited:

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
found egypt too

they kicking all kinds of ass since the october 2007 high in pretty much all of asia and US obvously

besides muslim, singapore and malaysia

err...dotheads up too...they like gold alot

think i'm starting to come around a bit on the gold front DAW

:nohead:
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,118,772
Messages
13,559,534
Members
100,684
Latest member
davidosevenwps
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com