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I dunno, I kinda see automation being a bridge to fully autonomous taxi network. You use smartphone app and car comes within 2 minutes, don't have to pay for insurance, gas, car loan, repairs and all the other stuff that adds up to like 8k a year for avg person. And since these cars will have utilization rates of 15hrs a day then them being electric makes the most sense.

Obviously it will be a little of both but as there is more urbanization, millennials not as into cars, swelling population of retirees on fixed incomes, stuff like that. I think autonomous taxi the logical conclusion.

Obviously rich/upscale suburbanites probably would rather own their own Tesla but that is a relatively small % of population.
 

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There a place for that in the future no doubt just think it's still way far away.. Tesla dealing with the here and now .. At least at the high end of the personal market... And developing the technology in house so they own every step of the process.. Vs being dependent on others for certain aspects... Looking through musk Twitter and back in November he posted looking for hardcore software engineers. No prior experience required. Please include code sample or link to your work....

tesla and spacex every year voted both most fulfilling and stressful job..

anywho I'll stop my tsla bull rant.. Don't like stock near term anyway.. Just think they will win big long term...
 

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The interesting thing with the battery pack is you don't even have to buy a new car. Just replace the battery pack after 6 years or whatever for 10k and you're good to go. Could keep the same car forever really.

Even if Tesla doesn't win big in the space, still gotta give them tons of credit for forcing the big boys hand. You mentioned dealerships, it isn't just the middleman aspect but they also make tons of $ off maintenance, oil changes, inspections, etc.....Very little maintenance done on a battery pack.
 

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Also the sticker price on the old guard is getting pretty obscene..

buick enclave 40k msrp a jaw dropper I remember seeing the other night.. Who buys this shit??

Just dont see how a continuously bailed out industry will beat a company recruiting the best and brightest being a major shit disturber.. Continuously innovating so the copycats will just be playing catchup.. That's what Apple is doing now .. They used to lead on phones.. Now they chasing samsungs tail..
 

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Yeah just a new camry is like 25-27 these days so I think 35 for Model 3 isn't bad when considering the savings on maintenance and fuel. Granted with even decent extras it probably gets up to 40-45ish but there is still time for it to get cheaper as battery costs go down. Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf also gonna have like 200 mile range and be in the 25-30k range.

One thing about autonomous that I think is overblown is the legal liability stuff. Yeah, it needs to get hashed out who takes the blame if the vehicle kills someone because it had no choice but accidents overall will be way down and I'd guess the manufacturer just has the insurance on the vehicle. I just don't see this being a big issue.

I really don't see consumer adoption being a huge issue either. Maybe at first, especially if there are a few crashes and press is bad, but I think once people ride in one then they will enjoy being able to do whatever they want while commuting rather than having to focus on road.
 

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1 bil for a 3 year old 10 employee company that planned on selling after market conversion kits to make cars automated? Sounds like desperation trying to keep pace with the pack to me.. Guess we shall see...
 

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The data mining tesla currently doing via autopilot program is a huge step ahead of everybody.. I smell desperation with that purchase..

---------------

[h=1]Tesla Autopilot Outdistances Google Cars[/h]One of the things that Google continues to brag about is how many miles its cars have been driven around under its software’s control.
The company also announced that, since 2009, its fleet of 55 autonomous cars have driven a total of over 1.4 million miles on actual roads around the Bay Area and Austin, Texas.
But how does that likely compare to the miles Teslas have racked up under Autopilot in the months since it was introduced? Well, Tesla is currently coy about those numbers, so let’s make some assumptions and project a likely range for the head-to-head drive-off between the Google fleet of bubbles, Priuses, and others, and the Tesla Model S. We’ll ignore the Model X, as the numbers of delivered vehicles are still small, and also to be more conservative in our estimates.
Screen-Shot-2016-03-13-at-1.26.49-PM-1-570x326.png
One of these cars has something non-nerdy on top.

Let’s start with the number of cars sold with Autopilot. The underlying hardware was introduced in September 2014. In the 5 quarters since then, Tesla has sold 60,414 cars — just going on the quarterly figures. These are the cars which could have used Autopilot.
Screen-Shot-2016-03-13-at-1.35.32-PM-270x253.png
Autopilot was introduced October 14, 2015. Let’s consider three months of driving for 60,000 cars to account for the discrepancy in cars purchased after that date in Q4 2015 and for the few weeks since January 14, 2016, once again being conservative as it’s currently mid-March. After all, we are comparing Google’s fleet over 7 years vs Tesla’s over 3 months, so we have to give Google a chance.

Let’s consider two scenarios, a low end and a high end.
Low-end scenario:

  • Teslas driven less than average because they are second or third cars of well-off people. Assume 10,000 miles annually on average. This gives 2,500 miles for the 3 months per car.
  • 20% of owners are regular Autopilot users.
  • They use it for 25% of miles driven.
High-end scenario

  • Teslas are driven more than average because they are awesome, new, and free to take across the country, so 14,000 miles annually on average. This gives 3,500 for the 3 months per car.
  • 40% of owners are regular Autopilot users.
  • They use it for 40% of miles driven.
google-vs-tesla-270x163.png
A little math gives us a range of 7.5 million to 33.6 million miles driven under Autopilot, with all of that data streamed up to Tesla’s cloud machine learning centre. That’s 5.4 to 24 times as many miles in 3 months as the Google cars drove in 7 years, which is kind of what I expected. It’s around 200 to 850 times as many miles every month of real-world experience with autonomous driving. It’s the power of multipliers. 60,000 Teslas versus a handful of Google cars can’t help but rack up the miles.

For Tesla to have driven as few miles as Google’s fleet under autonomous control, drivers would have to be averaging only 2,000 miles per year or only 4% of them would be using Autopilot or only using it on 5% of their driven miles, or other variants of those numbers, which seems fairly unrealistic. Tesla owners skew to people who drive a lot, multi-car owners are making it clear in forum after forum that their other cars are collecting dust once the Tesla arrives, and Tesla drivers skew to early-adopting technophiles who love the idea of Autopilot.
Of course, Google knows this, so it is now touting its virtual miles driven model, which obviously Tesla has as well. What does Google claim its virtual mileage is? About 3 million miles a day, which is an awful lot. But given that Google cars can only operate on roads scanned and mapped with enormous precision, it’s unclear what their simulator is simulating. If it’s the few square miles they’ve already driven 1.4 million miles on, the area where they recently collided with a bus, they are not experiencing much in terms of new terrain, highways, etc. Perhaps they’ve added SimCity-like modules in, and their car now occasionally runs into Godzilla.

Any way you run the numbers, it seems apparent that Tesla Autopilot continues to rack up impressive gains on the Google approach, especially as they are shipping over 10,000 Autopilot equipped Model Ss and Model Xs monthly right now.

Tags: autonomous cars, autopilot, Elon Musk, Google, google self driving cars, Robotics, self driving cars, Tesla, Tesla autopilot, Tesla Google self driving cars, Tesla Model S, Tesla Model X

[h=4]About the Author[/h]
Mike Barnard For the past several years Mike has been analyzing and publishing reports and articles on decarbonization technologies, business models and policies. His pieces on electrical generation transformation and electrification of transportation have been published in CleanTechnica, Newsweek, Slate, Forbes, Huffington Post, Quartz, RenewEconomy, RenewablesInternational and Gizmag, as well as included in textbooks. Third-party articles on his analyses and interviews with Mike have been published in dozens of news sites globally and have reached #1 on Reddit Science. Much of his work originates on Quora.com, where Mike has been a Top Writer annually since 2012. He also has published a climate-fiction novel, Guangzhou Future Tense.
 

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Hey chop... Musclepharm got their ceo to resign.. He's been the problem for a while now.. No clue how to run a business such as this to take it to the next step and was using it as his own personal piggy bank for a while.. Also Recently an ex ConAgra guy joined upper management.. Think it may finally be ready to turn a solid product/brand/marketing that has solid sales growth.. into profits..
 

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The new Vice President of operations left a senior director of supply chain job with hain celestial (4 bil dollar company) .. Must see the promise they have if they get their supply chain working more efficiently...
 

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Hey chop... Musclepharm got their ceo to resign.. He's been the problem for a while now.. No clue how to run a business such as this to take it to the next step and was using it as his own personal piggy bank for a while.. Also Recently an ex ConAgra guy joined upper management.. Think it may finally be ready to turn a solid product/brand/marketing that has solid sales growth.. into profits..

Everytime I check this thread on my phone, it goes right to Choptalks musclepharm post. Every single time, I've read the first 3 lines of that post like 800 times.

Why is this?
 

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Fed doesn't raise as expected everything green across the board ... Including gold which I believe will outperform equity markets by large margin going forward.. Party on!
 

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Model 3 unveil March 31st and with that many more data miners at teslas disposal .. This is where tesla
is jumping ahead of competition...

------------







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Tesla is mapping the Earth, 'cause your GPS won't cut it for self-driving cars

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BY CHRIS PERKINSOCT 14, 2015
Self-driving cars require an incredible amount of information to operate safely. Tesla and Elon Musk know this well.
Tesla Motors formally launched its long-awaited Autopilot feature on Wednesday, which is not quite a self-driving car, but rather a higher degree of autonomy. One of the new features of Autopilot: Tesla is creating high-precision digital maps of the Earth using GPS.
SEE ALSO: I went hands-free in Tesla's Model S on Autopilot, even though I wasn't supposed to


GPS mapping in cars has existed for years, but that currently only scratches the surface of the data needed for an autonomous self-driving car.
Screen-Shot-2015-10-14-at-4.12.52-PM.png

On the left, what currently exists: just the roads themselves. On the right, what Tesla is aiming to do: mapping out every lane.
IMAGE: TESLA MOTORS

Musk isn't alone on this. It's why Apple and Google have been deploying their mapping vehicles around the world, and why Uber tried to buy Nokia's Here maps, before being outbid by a consortium of Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz.
Tesla stands apart from the others is the way it's acquiring this data: through drivers. Every Tesla Model S, with Autopilot or not, is connected from the cloud; the company is constantly connecting data from each of its cars. Tesla is using the data it has, and will continue to collect, to develop its maps.
Elon Musk called this a "fleet learning network" where all its cars contribute to a shared database. "When one car learns something, all learn," said Musk.
Musk highlighted a section of I-405 in California, a highway where lanes are terribly marked. Using the information from Model S drivers traversing this specific section of road, Tesla's Autopilot can still function well, even in the absence of lane markings.
He thinks this is the biggest difference between Tesla and its rivals in the self-driving car sphere.
Musk said he believes Tesla is three years away from having a fully autonomous car — not counting the inevitable regulatory battle to get the tech to the public. However, its maps are already quite developed, as evidenced by the map of the San Fransisco Bay Area below.
Screen-Shot-2015-10-14-at-4.12.17-PM.png

IMAGE: TESLA MOTORS

Autopilot comes as part of Tesla's 7.0 software update, which begins rolling out to Model S cars on Wednesday. Autopilot is in something of a public beta, offering automatic steering, lane changes and parking, though Tesla advises drivers keep their hands on the wheel.








 

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Ackman is taking a terrible beating all across the board.


  • Valeant (VRX): -68% YTD / -49% MTD
  • Platform (PAH): -38% YTD / +12% MTD
  • Fannie Mae (FNMA): -7.3% YTD / +10.22% MTD
  • Freddie Mac (FMCC): -9.3% YTD / +8.21% MTD
  • Canadian Pacific (CP): -0.48% YTD / +4.79% MTD
  • Howard Hughes (HHC): -13.64% YTD / +5.27% MTD
  • Restaurant Brands International (QSR): -3.44% YTD / +5.29% MTD
  • Air Products & Chemicals (APD): -0.4% YTD / +1.17% MTD
  • Zoetis (ZTS): -15% YTD / -0.8% MTD
  • Mondelez (MDLZ): -7.14% YTD / +2.74% MTD
 

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The true answer is obviously quite simple ... data and setting targets is meaningless it's just for show.. Banksters tell us if they want more crack or not.. They do so we gave it to them... In the meantime let's hope we can bubble this a bit longer and great even more inequality!!

---------------

Here Is What Janet Yellen Answered When Steve Liesman Asked If The Fed "Has A Credibility Problem"

The most amusing moment of today's Janet Yellen press conference occured when none other than Steve Liesman asked Yellen a question, one which he may regret as it is dangerously close to "Pedro da Costa" territory, which goes to the heart of the matter: "does the Fed have a credibility problem?"
The question goes to the Fed's self-described role of being "data-dependent", because if the Fed indeed adhered to the data, it would be hiking right now: it's latest forecast sees long-term unemployment of 4.7-5.0%, right where the official unemployment rate is currently, while the Core PCE of 1.7% is already higher than the high range of the Fed's 2016 year end forecast of 1.4%. In light of this data, it makes no sense for the Fed not to be hiking, and certainly makes no sense to be reducing the number of expected rate hikes in 2016 from four to two.
The jarring congitive dissonance appears to have finally hit Liesman, who asked the following question:
Madam Chair, as you know, inflation has gone up the last two months. We had another strong jobs report. The tracking forecasts for GDP have returned to two percent. And yet the Fed stands pat while it's in a process of what it said at launch in December was a process of normalization.
So I have two questions about this. Does the Fed have a credibility problem in the sense that it says it will do one thing under certain conditions, but doesn't end up doing it? And then, frankly, if the current conditions are not sufficient for the Fed to raise rates, well, what would those conditions ever look like?
The answer was a 261 word jumbled nightmare of James Joyceian stream of consciousness interspersed with high-end econobabble that we, for one, were completely unable to follow. This is what Yellen responded verbatim:
Well, let me start -- let me start with the question of the Fed's credibility. And you used the word "promises" in connection with that. And as I tried to emphasize in my opening statement, the paths that the participants project for the federal funds rate and how it will evolve are not a pre-set plan or commitment or promise of the committee. Indeed, they are not even -- the median should not be interpreted as a committee-endorsed forecast. And there's a lot of uncertainty around each participant's projection. And they will evolve. Those assessments of appropriate policy are completely contingent on each participant's forecasts of the economy and how economic events will unfold. And they are, of course, uncertain. And you should fully expect that forecasts for the appropriate path of policy on the part of all participants will evolve over time as shocks, positive or negative, hit the economy that alter those forecasts. So, you have seen a shift this time in most participants' assessments of the appropriate path for policy. And as I tried to indicate, I think that largely reflects a somewhat slower projected path for global growth -- for growth in the global economy outside the United States, and for some tightening in credit conditions in the form of an increase in spreads. And those changes in financial conditions and in the path of the global economy have induced changes in the assessment of individual participants in what path is appropriate to achieve our objectives. So that's what you see -- that's what you see now.
Got that?

Apparently neither did Liesman, who openly admitted in his traditional post-Fed spar with Rick Santelli, the following:
Santelli: Steve, could you understand any of it? Any of it seriously? Just a yes or no.
Liesman: Not much, it was not precisely responsive to the question i asked.
To be sure, Yellen's response to Liesman's very simple question merely confirms that any credibility the Fed may have had is long gone; but the real emerging problem for the Yellen Fed is when such stalwart adherents to the Fed's party line as Steve Liesman are not only losing the plot, but are openly admitting that Yellen no longer makes sense.
And if the Fed can not make a favorable impression on those who are paid to at least pretend that they "get it", what about the rest of the market.
Worst of all, since the Fed peddles only in faith and "perpetuating the narrative" du jour, in this case one that the Fed has credibility despite not doing what it has explicitly said it would do, how long until it is not just Liesman, but everyone else, who openly admits that the Fed's emperor is fully naked.
The exchange between Liesman and Santelli is below. We apologize for the poor picture quality: CNBC appears to have edited this particular segment out.
 

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Model 3 unveil March 31st and with that many more data miners at teslas disposal .. This is where tesla
is jumping ahead of competition...

------------







Share Tweet







favicon-16x16.png
Tesla is mapping the Earth, 'cause your GPS won't cut it for self-driving cars

15.3k
Share Tweet



BY CHRIS PERKINSOCT 14, 2015
Self-driving cars require an incredible amount of information to operate safely. Tesla and Elon Musk know this well.
Tesla Motors formally launched its long-awaited Autopilot feature on Wednesday, which is not quite a self-driving car, but rather a higher degree of autonomy. One of the new features of Autopilot: Tesla is creating high-precision digital maps of the Earth using GPS.
SEE ALSO: I went hands-free in Tesla's Model S on Autopilot, even though I wasn't supposed to


GPS mapping in cars has existed for years, but that currently only scratches the surface of the data needed for an autonomous self-driving car.
Screen-Shot-2015-10-14-at-4.12.52-PM.png

On the left, what currently exists: just the roads themselves. On the right, what Tesla is aiming to do: mapping out every lane.
IMAGE: TESLA MOTORS

Musk isn't alone on this. It's why Apple and Google have been deploying their mapping vehicles around the world, and why Uber tried to buy Nokia's Here maps, before being outbid by a consortium of Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz.
Tesla stands apart from the others is the way it's acquiring this data: through drivers. Every Tesla Model S, with Autopilot or not, is connected from the cloud; the company is constantly connecting data from each of its cars. Tesla is using the data it has, and will continue to collect, to develop its maps.
Elon Musk called this a "fleet learning network" where all its cars contribute to a shared database. "When one car learns something, all learn," said Musk.
Musk highlighted a section of I-405 in California, a highway where lanes are terribly marked. Using the information from Model S drivers traversing this specific section of road, Tesla's Autopilot can still function well, even in the absence of lane markings.
He thinks this is the biggest difference between Tesla and its rivals in the self-driving car sphere.
Musk said he believes Tesla is three years away from having a fully autonomous car — not counting the inevitable regulatory battle to get the tech to the public. However, its maps are already quite developed, as evidenced by the map of the San Fransisco Bay Area below.
Screen-Shot-2015-10-14-at-4.12.17-PM.png

IMAGE: TESLA MOTORS

Autopilot comes as part of Tesla's 7.0 software update, which begins rolling out to Model S cars on Wednesday. Autopilot is in something of a public beta, offering automatic steering, lane changes and parking, though Tesla advises drivers keep their hands on the wheel.










We'll see, I'm still skeptical from everything I've read....It's a lot easier to make 20k luxury cars and sell them to rich early-adopters than it is to have a legitimate car company that can bring affordable innovative vehicles to mass-market.

Look at stuff like the next gen Leaf or the new Bolt or the Mission E from Porsche or the BMW 1 (forget the name of it)

Tesla had a huge head start on these companies and most of them already seem close to putting out performance EVs. Then you will get competition from the hybrid model which is gonna be like 120-150 miles range + small gas engine that you barely use. Most of these companies are getting in now because the battery-tech is improving rapidly and the infrastructure is beginning to as well. They just weren't going to waste money 5 years ago.

Selling 50k cars a year and 500k cars a year is a whole different ballgame.

Is the appeal of Tesla that it is a Tesla or is it that it is a high performance electric car? Because if it is the ladder then I see that being replicated.

Not saying they're not gonna be a successful company but being the Amazon of automotive industry is gonna be much harder.
 

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Starting to become clear they gonna prop this with all their might at least until after elections.. Crash ups odds for trump big time.. Granted I think trump is just a shitshow to get Hillary elected.. Once it's head to head and they have to discuss policy will be a complete kneeslapper..

either way up or down markets .. gold will win .. Curious to see if they actually manage to bubble markets to new highs vs flatline... Just complete comedy at this point...
 

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I see tesla as becoming basically the apple of electric/autonomous cars.. As this market takes off in the coming years... Obviously there will be other big players in the space.. But think they will be the leaders at least for a while.. And people will be willing to pay a premium just because it's tesla .. Musk has that jobs aura that attracts the upper middle class/upper class.. and they ahead of the curve as far as technology goes.. Another positive they have is hype and free advertising.. The other guys have to spend heavy on ads to sell their overpriced shit boxes

will see how the do as far as costs and speed of production goes on model 3.. Suspect demand will be big..
 

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