hache man,,that should be one of the first rules of gambling; dont listen to anyone elses theories or picks, do what works for you. In the past month or so Ive seen about every possible blackjack situation talked about on here from, insurance, to surrrender, to hitting hard 12 with the dealer showing a 2 or 3, to double downs on 9,10,and 11. I dont think ive seen anyone mention the proper way to play an A2,A3,A4,A5,A6 with the dealer showing a 6 or lower. I know most people would say to dbl in these situations but for me 90% of the time I get a lousy card on the hit so I dont care what mathematical edge im supposed to have, i wont double down on these soft hands.
gamblingshark.....when you say "do what works for you"......how is doing what works for you going to work out in the long run if the mathematics are ignored and the player who "does what he wants to do" keeps giving the house a larger percentage advantage by not playing correctly and taking in the money that he should be taking in?
Casinos plan these games out so that they have a house advantage. That is thier mathematical advantage over the player, that builds all thier new casinos....why is it that card counters that play perfect strategy are run out of town? Because they take advantage of situations that lower the house percentage to a level that they can compete against the casino with...if you look at GD's math behind the insurance scenario, the player recieves an extra $200 dollars by not taking insurance....unless the deck is filthy with 10's, why would you discard a fact-based system that gives you an extra $200???
The people who win in this game are the ones who can eliminate or seriously reduce the house advantage......
This is about the same as a thrifty housewife cutting coupons and buying gas at the cheapest pump and hitting all the yard sales to pick up bargains....a quarter saved here or a dollar saved there doesn't sound like much, but in the end it all adds up to big bucks over a year or twos time......
Casinos plan these games out so that they have a house advantage. That is thier mathematical advantage over the player, that builds all thier new casinos....why is it that card counters that play perfect strategy are run out of town? Because they take advantage of situations that lower the house percentage to a level that they can compete against the casino with...if you look at GD's math behind the insurance scenario, the player recieves an extra $200 dollars by not taking insurance....unless the deck is filthy with 10's, why would you discard a fact-based system that gives you an extra $200???
The people who win in this game are the ones who can eliminate or seriously reduce the house advantage......
This is about the same as a thrifty housewife cutting coupons and buying gas at the cheapest pump and hitting all the yard sales to pick up bargains....a quarter saved here or a dollar saved there doesn't sound like much, but in the end it all adds up to big bucks over a year or twos time......
Silver 7
I am in NYC and have not played in MN
Never double an 11 vs Ace unless you are counting cards
I agree it hurts a lot more when you pull an ace on the 11 double down- espically when you are counting because it happens more often when the count is high and your big bets are out
If you think people get pissed for hitting 12 vs 2 or 3 try counting and hitting it vs 4
BTW, almost nobody knows this what to do on 12 vs 4 is actually mathamatically the closest call in the game which is why i find people who get pissed when i hot 12 vs 3 hilarious
Teaser Guru,
Unless you have a time machine and go back to Vegas in the 1960's or earlier you will lose if you dont count- unless you find extremerly rare games in foreoghn countries in which youd have a slight advantage if you played perfect BS
I am in NYC and have not played in MN
Never double an 11 vs Ace unless you are counting cards
I agree it hurts a lot more when you pull an ace on the 11 double down- espically when you are counting because it happens more often when the count is high and your big bets are out
If you think people get pissed for hitting 12 vs 2 or 3 try counting and hitting it vs 4
BTW, almost nobody knows this what to do on 12 vs 4 is actually mathamatically the closest call in the game which is why i find people who get pissed when i hot 12 vs 3 hilarious
Teaser Guru,
Unless you have a time machine and go back to Vegas in the 1960's or earlier you will lose if you dont count- unless you find extremerly rare games in foreoghn countries in which youd have a slight advantage if you played perfect BS
Marco,
your post two posts above goes way beyond just simple card counting and gets into shuffle tracking and key card and preferential cutting. Subjects that are way beyond the scope of this discussion, but things that are necessary for all winning blackjack players and far more powerful than simple card counting.
your post two posts above goes way beyond just simple card counting and gets into shuffle tracking and key card and preferential cutting. Subjects that are way beyond the scope of this discussion, but things that are necessary for all winning blackjack players and far more powerful than simple card counting.
SSavant, I emailed them and requested a history from last night of all of my blackjack hands. I honestly want you to see this just for laughs.
Was easy to remember every single time it happened because of these conversations.It didn't happen 4 times in a row, just 4 separate times. It was for smaller hands though, I believe, if I remember right, that's why I didn't take it Im sure anyhow. I don't play there regularly, Last night was the very first night. I had a little over $100 in there so just transferred it over. Won $300 more so it wasn't that bad overall, despite what happened. And your right, I suppose it does come up in more situations than I originally thought. GB, thanks for the math, but maybe it doesn't apply to online casinos.......lol
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>hache man,,that should be one of the first rules of gambling; dont listen to anyone elses theories or picks, do what works for you. In the past month or so Ive seen about every possible blackjack situation talked about on here from, insurance, to surrrender, to hitting hard 12 with the dealer showing a 2 or 3, to double downs on 9,10,and 11. I dont think ive seen anyone mention the proper way to play an A2,A3,A4,A5,A6 with the dealer showing a 6 or lower. I know most people would say to dbl in these situations but for me 90% of the time I get a lousy card on the hit so I dont care what mathematical edge im supposed to have, i wont double down on these soft hands. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
yeah you are right...
ignore mathematics, ignore logic & ignore the experts at the same time... just do what 'feels' right for you...
HECK, hit those hard 17's if you feel a 3 or a 4 coming... why not....
CLASSIC!!!
LMFAO
yeah you are right...
ignore mathematics, ignore logic & ignore the experts at the same time... just do what 'feels' right for you...
HECK, hit those hard 17's if you feel a 3 or a 4 coming... why not....
LMFAO
W/O counting the ONLY edge we as players have is to play perfect BS. And one of the basic tenets is "get as much $ on the table as U can in favorable situations", i.e. dlr has 4,5,or 6 up. this means in a multi deck shoe you MUST take all opportunities to split, dbl & soft dbl. This is the only way to bring down the House edge. To not dbl A6 against say a 5 is just saying "f*ck me please"! Tommy if you don`t dbl 11 vs A fine, your prerogative. Been playing for over 30 yrs and it`s a no brainer "lay it down".
Yes, GD....my posts were a little outside the scope but I had to mention that gameplay at the table not only changes that shoe, but all the shoes after it....cards get picked up different and consequently get shuffled into a different place....still unpredictable as to the outcome, and yes, hard to shuffle track a few cards and have it so that yourself as a player can benefit from that tracking.....
merely stating the randomlike nature of it....kinda like the thought of what happens if Hitler wasn't born....or if the inventor of a vaccine for a killer disease decided to be a pro golfer instead.....hell, look at Buddy Holly....he wins a coin flip that puts him in a nice warm plane and Waylon Jennings has to take a cold bus....
The insurance argument is about the same as the Rummy theory of discarding....if a player makes discarding decisions based on what his own hand needs he will get killed......if a player makes discarding decisions based on narrowing down the chance of giving his opponent a card that the opponent can use, then by employing a "safe" discard he extends the game long enough to the point where he can find the card he needs or the opponent actually throws it to him....
Still mathematics......still the solid way to extract maximum profit......
merely stating the randomlike nature of it....kinda like the thought of what happens if Hitler wasn't born....or if the inventor of a vaccine for a killer disease decided to be a pro golfer instead.....hell, look at Buddy Holly....he wins a coin flip that puts him in a nice warm plane and Waylon Jennings has to take a cold bus....
The insurance argument is about the same as the Rummy theory of discarding....if a player makes discarding decisions based on what his own hand needs he will get killed......if a player makes discarding decisions based on narrowing down the chance of giving his opponent a card that the opponent can use, then by employing a "safe" discard he extends the game long enough to the point where he can find the card he needs or the opponent actually throws it to him....
Still mathematics......still the solid way to extract maximum profit......
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TEASER GURU:
Is the bottom line that nobody can win if they don't count cards?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct. You CANNOT beat the mathematical house edge without card counting. And remember, online, card counting is impossible and irrelevant.
Anyone who feels differently is welcome to order one of my audiobooks, "How to win at blackjack every f'n time using Voodoo"
Other popular titles include "smoke yourself thin- lose weight the cancer way". This makes just about as much sense as defying math in order to beat Blackjack.
UT
Is the bottom line that nobody can win if they don't count cards?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct. You CANNOT beat the mathematical house edge without card counting. And remember, online, card counting is impossible and irrelevant.
Anyone who feels differently is welcome to order one of my audiobooks, "How to win at blackjack every f'n time using Voodoo"
Other popular titles include "smoke yourself thin- lose weight the cancer way". This makes just about as much sense as defying math in order to beat Blackjack.
UT
Agreed UT....if you don't count the cards and try to negate the house percentage then you will be chiseled down by it.....
all these methods from card counting to proper basic play and employing correctly when to split and double down......all of these help chisel the house edge down and to reap the most benefit they have to be employed full time and over the long run.....
What boggles me at times is seeing people at a table....the dealer has an ace up, people are splitting garbage hands and loading the table with money...Christ when the dealer has an ace up he's in the strongest position he can be....he has to bust twice to lose the hand...
Same table a dealer gets a five or six up and everyone draws cards when they should be splitting and loading the table up with money....when the dealer is at his weakest....
Some people play the game without even looking at the dealer's up card....
all these methods from card counting to proper basic play and employing correctly when to split and double down......all of these help chisel the house edge down and to reap the most benefit they have to be employed full time and over the long run.....
What boggles me at times is seeing people at a table....the dealer has an ace up, people are splitting garbage hands and loading the table with money...Christ when the dealer has an ace up he's in the strongest position he can be....he has to bust twice to lose the hand...
Same table a dealer gets a five or six up and everyone draws cards when they should be splitting and loading the table up with money....when the dealer is at his weakest....
Some people play the game without even looking at the dealer's up card....
Yeah Marco,
It's astonishing what some people do with their money... superstitious gamblers seem to prefer to play by what they 'feel', and this excuses them from having to know proper strategy.
In the end, most BJ players play for fun, and know they will lose, so any effort to play perfect strategy actually detracts from the quality of their experience at the table.
For me, I like to win, or to lose as little as possible while waiting for a mini-streak that will put me up so I can quit ahead. Failing that, I'm happy to sit there for hours, churning my stash away at 1.5% per hand, enjoying the ambience and Heniken
UT
It's astonishing what some people do with their money... superstitious gamblers seem to prefer to play by what they 'feel', and this excuses them from having to know proper strategy.
In the end, most BJ players play for fun, and know they will lose, so any effort to play perfect strategy actually detracts from the quality of their experience at the table.
For me, I like to win, or to lose as little as possible while waiting for a mini-streak that will put me up so I can quit ahead. Failing that, I'm happy to sit there for hours, churning my stash away at 1.5% per hand, enjoying the ambience and Heniken
UT
Speaking of casinos and blackjack.....instead of these casinos keeping track of card counters and running them out once they are made.....
Why don't they install the new shuffling machines that shuffle the cards back into the shoe after every hand?
Card counting is eliminated, thereby eliminating one of the casinos few threats, other than cheaters and thiefs.....eliminate card counting and the advantage the player gains by counting is erased.....
Game play is increased due to the fact that there is no time spent with the dealer shuffling the deck....time that now is used actually playing the game and therefore the casino gets to employ it's house edge fulltime, and accordingly, makes more money by playing more hands.......
Yes, the machines cost money to buy and install, but isn't this like insulating your house.....it costs money initially but is paid back to the homeowner in the long run through cheaper heating and cooling bills???
Why don't they install the new shuffling machines that shuffle the cards back into the shoe after every hand?
Card counting is eliminated, thereby eliminating one of the casinos few threats, other than cheaters and thiefs.....eliminate card counting and the advantage the player gains by counting is erased.....
Game play is increased due to the fact that there is no time spent with the dealer shuffling the deck....time that now is used actually playing the game and therefore the casino gets to employ it's house edge fulltime, and accordingly, makes more money by playing more hands.......
Yes, the machines cost money to buy and install, but isn't this like insulating your house.....it costs money initially but is paid back to the homeowner in the long run through cheaper heating and cooling bills???
Silver 7
I just double checked the math behind the 11 vs Ace situation
Not counting you should just hit if you are playing a game where the dealer stays on soft 17, while you should double if they hit soft 17- Im not sure which game you are playing-Im playing where they stay on S17
Marco- the reason they havent installed CSM everywhere is that they tried it and everyone, not just card counters complained
Regaular players complained that the CMS's "ruined the flow" and other such nonsense so most, not all places took them out
Thank God becuase you cant count a CSM
I just double checked the math behind the 11 vs Ace situation
Not counting you should just hit if you are playing a game where the dealer stays on soft 17, while you should double if they hit soft 17- Im not sure which game you are playing-Im playing where they stay on S17
Marco- the reason they havent installed CSM everywhere is that they tried it and everyone, not just card counters complained
Regaular players complained that the CMS's "ruined the flow" and other such nonsense so most, not all places took them out
Thank God becuase you cant count a CSM
Although GreenDoberman and myself have both posted a simple mathimatical explination as why not to take even money, there are some posters who don't get it and will take the guaranteed win even because one in the hand is better than 1.5 in the bush. Not true in this case. With 1.5 in the bush, you will end up with more in the hand in the long run. The type of thinking by these posters ingnoring this simple correct mathimatical play is why the casinos all have the big buildings and there are very few succesful gamblers.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The type of thinking by these posters ingnoring this simple correct mathimatical play is why the casinos all have the big buildings and there are very few succesful gamblers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
exactly... Think about it... Even with perfect play the house has a 51% edge or more...
Now factor in all the MISTAKES MADE... House edge is probably like 70% or something if you factor in all gamblers as 1...
exactly... Think about it... Even with perfect play the house has a 51% edge or more...
Now factor in all the MISTAKES MADE... House edge is probably like 70% or something if you factor in all gamblers as 1...
I tried to explain this earlier...
Maybe this makes more sense to some people.
Insurance has nothing to do with "insuring" anything. Misinformed people think this decision has something to do with the value of their hand and therfore they decide if they want to "buy insurance" based on the value of their hand.
YOU ARE SIMPLY BEING ASK TO MAKE A SECoND BET ON IF THE DAELER HAS BLACKJACK! That is it! pure and simle.
Unless you are keeping a VERY accurate count... insurance is NEVER a good bet.
The fact that the casino lures players in with the "even money" on a blackjack is very misleading and very underhanded like most disclosure on casino holds and odds.
The reason they refer to "even money" and the reason they offer insurance in any situation is simply because it is a bad bet and VERY profitable for the house.
Maybe this makes more sense to some people.
Insurance has nothing to do with "insuring" anything. Misinformed people think this decision has something to do with the value of their hand and therfore they decide if they want to "buy insurance" based on the value of their hand.
YOU ARE SIMPLY BEING ASK TO MAKE A SECoND BET ON IF THE DAELER HAS BLACKJACK! That is it! pure and simle.
Unless you are keeping a VERY accurate count... insurance is NEVER a good bet.
The fact that the casino lures players in with the "even money" on a blackjack is very misleading and very underhanded like most disclosure on casino holds and odds.
The reason they refer to "even money" and the reason they offer insurance in any situation is simply because it is a bad bet and VERY profitable for the house.
