Possible expansion scenario....

[Conan]

There is new leadership in Austin now, and he's worked with and inside the PAC12. Who's to say they don't try a coup again if the expansion winds begin to blow once more

Quite possibly as an agent that still works for Larry Scott? Nahhhh. (?)

Just stated, it's all about the Pacific Rim and all those potential television subscriptions. Cha-Ching!! And thats not speaking Mandarin

How are you doing buddy? Always glad to see you pop in. Just for the benefit of any folks here that may have taken my words and opinions about Texas a bit too much on the serious side, there are some exceptions here who have learned to think for themselves and don't fit anyone's stereotyped impression. Winone belongs in that rare group of men here with a considerable depth of knowledge of the college football game. For the sake of this forum, IMHO he is one its more knowledgeable posters that understands the game from many different points of view, both inside and out and as interesting as it gets.

One thing you can say about Texas is that it is as they say a "whole other country" and I do believe they are the only state that actually at one time was its own "whole other country..." like Mexico. Nothing new there. It seems to be their way. Self deputized to represent the State of Texas to thumb their noses at any that would claim their own way about themselves in defiance of God's very own CFB team, aka the Texas Longwhornes. God! what happened to literally drive their longtime rival (TAMU) not just out of the state but clear out of the conference too. As did Mizzoou, as did Colorado, as did Nebraska. There's a chunk of college football tradition that no one in Texas will ever get to show their own kids.

I stand firm in my belief that it was exclusively goings on in Texas that have led the B12-2 to its present day dilemma and at most just a bunch of tattered remnants of what it once was. I just don't see where any sort of arrangements with the SEC will be enough to save it from crashing and burning itself to a crisp. It's obvious to many here that can sense that the conference, though run by better people today is still not out of the woods (too little too late) Its future is far from being an odds on prop. Just wait until the next round of TV contracts is up for renegotiation. The cry coming from that state will be DEAFENING because ESPN/TLN has already bled Texas fans dry. Now comes the pain. The mindset there reminds me of the children's fairy tale about the golden goose. That bunch of idiots I am afraid have screwed the pooch once too often.

 

[RunLeeRun]

Maybe even the Chinese will watch. :toast:

True story. There's an actual American Football World Championship. Before the US began competing, Japan was two time champ and made the US beat them in double overtime when going for the 3-peat. So there's a little spark there.

 

[Conan]

There is a market for basketball in China. It seems like a long-term solution and we can't forget that 10 million people watching in China, and Japan to a lesser extent, as compared to 10 million watching State-side isn't the same value. One only need look at the World Cup. Total viewers per country is weighted with GDP to show what percentage they actually provide to the coffers. In 2010 South Africa, China represented 14.8% of total viewers, but when you apply the GDP, it came to 7.3%. Japan is a rosier prospect. It's 4.9% actual viewers, resulted in 9.1% of GDP-viewers. Japan is a wealthy country and was actually 2nd behind only the USA for total value after weighing in the GDP. Baseball would obviously being the selling point in Japan... and South Korea. So there is some potential. But at the end of the day, it seems expansion in the US would be more profitable.

RLR, for the time bring those numbers do have relevance and provide impact. But not so quietly there's this humongus economic explosion taking place and where better a place to be than parked right on the ground floor as the system evolves into whatever humongus thing it will one day be? I personally believe that eventually the Chinese will develop into something of proportions the world has yet to see. Nothing wrong with a little KFC and a Bud Lite to wash it all down. Sure beats a diet of Oolong tea and roast pork with legs dangling. They love us. They really do.

 

[GoSooners]

The Big 12 has one choice and one choice only to make. They must expand. If they do not the PAC 12 can put them out of their misery by simply taking two more teams. San Diego State would bring in more money than 7 teams in the Big 12. There are many others that would make the Pac 12 the 4th Power 5 Conference with 14 teams. The Big 12 would be finished.

The Pac-12 isn't putting anybody out of their misery. Stop trying to tie the Big 12's success or lack of to what anything the PAC does. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. If anything, the Big 12 has many more choices of what they want to do with their conference than the PAC does. And it all has to do with location. They can either go west (which I prefer) or they can hook up with the ACC. But I think in order to have an ACC/Big 12 merger a few things would have to happen. The main thing is we would have to see the Big 12 and Notre Dame both have playoff problems before we really see minds open to this at all, and there's no guarantee that's going to happen. But when you think of the money that ESPN would be willing to pay to make that conference happen, it's pretty staggering.

 

[Conan]

Couldn't agree more, they'd rather get east. It's become glaringly clear that people on the West Coast aren't interested in watching college sports.

In a very important conference to conference comparison, Orientals and people of Latin decent play a much larger share of the racial/ethnic influence that de-emphsizes college sports as we now know it on the west coast. These cultural enclaves are huge by comparison to other states and regions in the country (with a few exceptions like Pacific Island Nationals if they are included and we stick to just CFB.) The numbers that represent the population base in the west from which college football (and perhaps to a lesser degree basketball) draws local talent are 25% - 30% smaller than they look on the surface (overall population per state or city.)

In Asia, an education from an American university is highly prized. Eventually that factor will have a much greater impact on a lot of things, money not being the least of it, but competitive sports will also benefit. In this modern day of cell phones and tablet computers in the clouds, connectivity to unlimited information is only getting easier and more accessible everywhere.

College sports is headed for fertile ground and greater popularity as it slowly gains a foothold in the far east... I am convinced that Larry Scott is a modern day visionary and he gets it. What people don't see is that Scott has taken on a behemoth market with a potential that could easily dwarf all other sources of revenue combined in this country by a factor of 3 in the next 5-10 years. Basketball could easily blow away college football and the AD's out west have seen the seeds already planted.

As they say, follow the money. Adding Texas without the Texas footprint. They wouldn't gain anything. If it included Oklahoma, they get a bump and perhaps incentive for the national DTV 1st Tier TV sets (8 million). Pac 12 gain looks minimal to me, and Oklahoma takes a pay cut.

I think sooner or later, perhaps in the next 3 years, Texas will be offered the choice of ESPN/TLN as we know it or the Pac-12 and the Pacific Rim. The day someone in Austin can grasp the idea that the truth about Texas is that they can't be the "one and powerful" entity it sees in the mirror is the day they rejoin the human race... but with one hitch... they may wind up with more money than they ever thought existed. Their recognition as a leader in scientific research will provide them with more prestige than even they think they deserve. If Oklahoma ever wanted a reason to hitch its wagon to UT, that would work well for them.

The Pac's limited footprint in TV sets is undeniably their worst asset. But the hand they were dealt has its strengths elsewhere and the administrators in their ivory tower are both opportunistic as well as creative and they are competent.

 

[flashmo]

This was a projection from just a few weeks ago.



Any school could use a extra 6 million but to schools like Oregon St & Washington St that extra money would be huge.

I have Comcast so I get the package but if I was a DirectTV subscriber I would be pissed that the parties can't get a deal in place.

I'm a Directv subscriber and I am pissed. Only reason I stay with them is for the Sunday Ticket..Hope that merger goes through soon

 

[cloverleaf]

Chances are problem slim or none but I would love to see an SEC one day that looked the following:

WEST Division

Alabama
Auburn
LSU
Ole Miss
Miss State
Arkansas
Texas A&M
OKLAHOMA

EAST Division:

Florida
Georgia
Tennessee
Missouri
South Carolina
Kentucky
Vanderbilt
FLORIDA STATE

Like I said, I'll probably never live to see it but those would be two tough Divisions.

 

[WinOne]

With the LHN would they actually get those subscribers, though?

Yessir

 

[RunLeeRun]

Yessir

Pac 12 owns its own 3rd tier rights. LHN has Texas' 3rd Tier. Not sure how that hurdle is overcome. Texas is making more money, they atent likely to take a cut.

 

[BigdaddyQH]

Everyone knows that the entire Big 12 has been Texas's whore for years. Nothing has changed that. Oklahoma is the worst offender because at one time, they were the power in the Big 12 but still let Texas trample all over them. The Big 12 will do what it does best. They will wait until it is too late and then try to salvage what they can. Remember, Texas goes nowhere unless the State Legislature says they can, and the State Legislature says Texas is going nowhere without little brother T-Tech tagging along. OU has the same problem with Okie State. If OU had any balls at all (and they obviously do not), they would pick up and move to the conference they want to play in, and screw Texas, but that will not happen. Do not worry Texas fans, OU will do NOTHING without your permission. They do not have enough guts to move, like Nebraska, Colorado, Mizzou and A&M had.

 

[RunLeeRun]

Fire it back up!


[h=1]Oklahoma president David Boren puts possible Big 12 expansion back in news[/h]54m

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  Jake Trotter, ESPN Staff Writer

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Wednesday, Oklahoma president David Boren made waves when he suggested the Big 12 “should strive for” a 12-team league. Boren’s comments were the first from a Big 12 leader advocating expansion in a long time.
"I think we should," Boren told The Oklahoman after the school's board meeting, when asked if the league should expand back to 12 teams.
“How many years can this go on? It just gets to be really debilitating. I worry about that. That’s something I just worry about long-term about the conference, not short-term.”


http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/...n-puts-possible-big-12-expansion-back-in-news

 

[BigdaddyQH]

Good for OU and their President Boren. It is about time that someone takes control of this conference away from Texas, who has done more harm to the conference than anyone imagined. Now let's see if President Boren can muster enough support to see this through.

 

[groundhog11]

Good for OU and their President Boren. It is about time that someone takes control of this conference away from Texas, who has done more harm to the conference than anyone imagined. Now let's see if President Boren can muster enough support to see this through.

Wvu ad also said the same thing regarding expansion a few weeks ago....with acc revenue falling behind , I still think some teams will join the big 12.. One the big goes through their TV deal next year, I could see a lot of expansion talk beginning putting it a few yes out.

 

[GoSooners]

I'm not sure if Boren really wants this to happen or he's just planting the seed for OU to move on elsewhere if this doesn't work out to his standards. I'm kind of torn between wanting expansion and OU just getting out of this mess and joining another conference so we can get some better games coming to Norman. If they really are serious about expanding, the first two schools they should try to get are Cincy and UCF. Cincy because of the millions they are pouring into their athletic programs, which makes me think they are serious about football. And UCF because of the Florida market and they have a bigger stadium than these other mid majors. I'm really not that crazy about any of these other schools other than maybe Boise. But the geography doesn't work out good there with WV already in the conference.

 

[919]

Right now the Big Ten and SEC are both above 30 mil (Big Ten based on proj.) Big12 is at 25-ish. The PAC and ACC are probably coming in less 22 mil-ish (projections). In two years, some projections have the Big Ten at 44mil and the SEC over 40 mil. I usually tend to think on the lower end, but even the big 12 beat their projections. So, the question is how well the others keep up and at what point is the gap too big? I feel like this has come more to a two conference arms race. Its the US vs USSR....with the SEC being the Soviets of course. The Soviets have to be eyeing getting their nukes into the DMV market. The Big US wants to march south.. So, yes I think it happens sooner than later.

As of right now because of the way the TV deals and third tier rights are structured in the Big 12, Texas and Oklahoma are making more than anyone in the country. Easily more than anyone in the SEC. I think Texas grossed somewhere north of $40 million. The SEC teams were somewhere north of $31 million, I think. Hard to beat that.

 

[rolltide]

As of right now because of the way the TV deals and third tier rights are structured in the Big 12, Texas and Oklahoma are making more than anyone in the country. Easily more than anyone in the SEC. I think Texas grossed somewhere north of $40 million. The SEC teams were somewhere north of $31 million, I think. Hard to beat that.

OU were a sliver above the SEC payout. they got the full share of $27M from big 12 then an extra 6.5M for 3rd tier. Texas enjoyed an extra $15M for $42M overall payout. SEC schools got $31.2M each (does not include bowl games)

 

[BigdaddyQH]

The Big 12 will not be making that much money in the future, compared to what the other Conferences will receive when their Contracts are up for renewal. I think GoSooner may have a very valid point. OU is seeing what effect A&M's move out of the Big 12 and away from Texas is having, and so far it is all positive for A&M. If OU and Oklahoma State decide to move West (their best move), then you could see them aligned with the two Arizona schools, the two Los Angeles schools, and Colorado. Utah goes to the Northern Conference. I do not think that many OU fans would mind a trip to Southern California once a year. That could also force Texas's hand. I like what OU is doing.

 

[CFBLore]

Conference deregulation seems to be the way things will go. I would prefer that the Big 12 would live up to its name and actually have 12 teams. The playing field structure would at least be somewhat uniform across the Power 5. BYU would be a great fit but I'm not sure any one else jumps off the page. They should have grabbed Louisville.

 

[BigdaddyQH]

Conference deregulation seems to be the way things will go. I would prefer that the Big 12 would live up to its name and actually have 12 teams. The playing field structure would at least be somewhat uniform across the Power 5. BYU would be a great fit but I'm not sure any one else jumps off the page. They should have grabbed Louisville.

I totally agree, but as Big 12 experts in here will tell you, the Big 12 was still under the domination of Texas and their puppet Commish Dan Beebe. They hemmed and hawed and waited too long.

BYU is not a good fit because of their archaic rules about no Sunday Sports, no sex unless you are married, and other ridiculous rules. The Pac 12 already passed on BYU, and It is hard to see any Power 5 conference taking them seriously. Right now, Cincinnati and UCF seem to be the best potential additions if the Big 12 expands to 12.

 

[GoSooners]

I totally agree, but as Big 12 experts in here will tell you, the Big 12 was still under the domination of Texas and their puppet Commish Dan Beebe. They hemmed and hawed and waited too long.

BYU is not a good fit because of their archaic rules about no Sunday Sports, no sex unless you are married, and other ridiculous rules. The Pac 12 already passed on BYU, and It is hard to see any Power 5 conference taking them seriously. Right now, Cincinnati and UCF seem to be the best potential additions if the Big 12 expands to 12.

I think the main thing Boren was guilty of was being short sighted and not being more skeptical of what Texas was doing with it's own TV network. He should have known given their SWC history that Texas was never going abide by the rules or parameters of school specific networks laid out by the Big 12. So it was less about OU being Texas puppet than just not knowing what the hell they were going to do. By the time Boren found out that Texas wasn't budging off of the LHN and ESPN as a partner would do ANYTHING to make sure it was a success, it was basically too late for OU. The Pac-12 had a new TV deal and had picked up a couple spare parts in Colorado and Utah. After that, OU was pretty much stuck in their 10 team conference. I think if he had to do it over again, Boren would have made a different move either to the Pac-12 or the SEC. Now I agree with you about the other schools being puppets. They basically have no choice but to be in the Big 12. But OU and Texas have much more clout to do just about anything they want, especially Texas. The only problem I have right now with adding two teams is how does this benefit OU? Right now it just means a smaller piece of the pie. And we all know if OU or Texas were the teams they were 5 years ago, either or both would cut through this conference like a knife and the Big 12 would have a representative in the Final 4 just about every year. I also agree with you about wanting to see OU go west to the Pac-12. I think it would be a better fit for OU. In a perfect world OU could break away from OSU and Texas and OU would go west. But with the money that both schools are making right now, I doubt if it will go that direction. But I hope it does. If for no other reason than it opens up more recruiting avenues for OU since they seem to be closing around these parts.