Obama calls Cambridge cop stupid.The cops report you decide...

[D2bets]

[QUOTEI conclude that the arrest was unlawful because the caselaw makes that conclusion crystal clear. There are not even any material issues of fact. We can take Crowley's report as 100% true and on its face, under Mass. law, falls clearly short of any cognizable disorderly conduct. Just read the caselaw. Could hardly be more clear. <!-- / message -->]

Material issues of fact would be heard in the recordings of radio transmissions...if that what you mean.

If this went to court I have no doubt in my mind that gates would be found not guilty.
That dosen't mean that the arrest was unlawful or unjust.Sgt.Crowley made the arrest because Gates behavior prevented Crowley from completing his job.An arrest of disorderly conduct was just a tool at Sgt. Crowley's disposal other than breaking Gates jaw with a night stick to shut the fuck up.
Now heres a kicker.In Ma. like in most states police are allowed to use the least amount of force to get control of the situation. ( Someone pulls a knife, you pull a gun.) So Crowley had to arrest the disoerderly and tumultuos Gates to get control the situation and complete his task at hand.[/quote]

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I say there are no MATERIAL issues of fact because we can accept Crowley's version and report as 100% true and view it in the most favorable light to the prosecution and it is still on its face insufficient to justify the charge. Therefore, it would never get to a jury. A judge would dismiss the charge right out of the box on a motion to dismiss.

 

[barman]

BForLife is bummed: I've read through the first 3 pages and I have to say that I am absolutely repulsed...especially by you Barman

Bar: I'm sorry for your feeling that way.

BFL: But actually Barman, maybe you're black also ...

Bar: Nope...dark brown most of the year is as close as I get

BFL: With all due respect, you can "F" your first amendment rights as far as I'm concerned.

Bar: Attitudes such as this are what increase the level of satisfaction when I or anyone else elects to exercise our First Amendment rights.

BFL: Barman, why don't you go down to your local mall right now and drop your pants down to your knees, put on some gold chains, and put a radio over your shoulders, and start singing really loud. See if you don't get some extra attention from law enforcement.

Bar: No thanks, I'm good. I'll just stick with my late 80s jean shorts and flowery Tommy Bahama shirts like a good white Floridian should. And if a police officer happens to roll up on my private residence and demand identification, I'll tell him my name and then politely shut the door in his face.

What I will NOT do is start yelling and acting the fool like Mr Gates elected to do.

"You're just on me because I have LegalizeDrugs bumper stickers on my truck!!!!"

Behavior like that may be totally protected by the First Amendment, but if the cop is lacking sufficient confidence to diffuse the situation peaceably and legally, he might well arrest me and take me down to Pinellas County Jail.

Now he'll be in the wrong legally. And his arresting reason of "disorderly conduct" will be dunked in less than a day. And I - unlike the majority of my fellow citizens - will be out of jail within a few hours thanks to the connections I have in the local legal community.

But nonetheless, I'll lose four to eight hours of my day and so I can promise you I would proceed as I described above rather than stirring up unneeded aggravation by responding in like manner to Mr Gates this past week.

===
BFL: People like you amaze me with your first amendment rights.

Bar: Thank you.

 

[barman]

The reason for Obamas half ass mea culpa yesterday is because they don't want the audio of radio transmision and other recorded audio of the other transmissions heard by the public....(But, if it was to fuck the cop it would be out there.)
This Gates guy was a insane raving fuckin maniac and if it was ever heard by the public...

So the audio and radio transmissions haven't been heard by the public (though they could be with a simple FOIA request by anyone interested).

But nonetheless, you - PatPatriot - are privy to everything that occurred at Mr Gates house - sufficiently to conclude Mr Gates was an insane raving fucking maniac.

Fascinating

:drink:

 

[PatPatriot]

say there are no MATERIAL issues of fact because we can accept Crowley's version and report as 100% true and view it in the most favorable light to the prosecution and it is still on its face insufficient to justify the charge. Therefore, it would never get to a jury. A judge would dismiss the charge right out of the box on a motion to dismiss.

I'll buy that.
It still does not make the arrest unlawful or unjust.

 

[barman]

*So what we have here ultimately is that Gates was arrested because the cop didn't appreciate being questioned. As immature and unreasonable as Gates may have been, his assertion of rights, decoupled from any physical threat whatsoever, cannot, by law, be a valid basis for disordertly conduct.

*Why is it that Crowley cannot see what is obvious and apologize for wrongfully arresting Gates? Maybe if they can reach an agreement not to sue, he can feel able to be honest about the arrest.

*Correct, which is why the Cambridge prosecutor instantly dunked the arrest charge

*Crowley is in the most untenable of positions for a police officer. That is, he reacted poorly to the verbal, non-threatening berating from a citizen. But he cannot now make a tactful retreat because to do so would put his agency in an even worse light. And the Thin Blue Line is very, very rarely crossed by any law enforcement officer, regardless of how in error they may be.

 

[barman]

Probably a bit late, but nonetheless it's worthy to note that if all disputes between law enforcement and civilians were resolved based on "The Cops report - you decide", we'd likely have a a solid 100% record of perfection for police nationwide.

 

[D2bets]

I'll buy that.
It still does not make the arrest unlawful or unjust.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, OK I'll oblige. Please explain. So let's see....the arrest was not lawful BUT it was not unlawful?

Go ahead, please explain this Mr. Clinton.

 

[PatPatriot]

So the audio and radio transmissions haven't been heard by the public (though they could be with a simple FOIA request by anyone interested).

But nonetheless, you - PatPatriot - are privy to everything that occurred at Mr Gates house - sufficiently to conclude Mr Gates was an insane raving fucking maniac.

Fascinating

I'd love nothing better than for the tapes to be made public.The Boston Herald been hammering away to get them released.

Relative to a high faluting elitist Harvard know it all you know nothing proffessor he was raving maniac.

 

[barman]

Just like free speech does not allow you to yell fire in a crowded theater.

This is an urban wive's tale.

Given the proper circumstances, one most certainly has full rights to yell, "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.

 

[barman]

Asserting ones "so called" rights in a tumultuous manner in public is not protected by the constitution or the state of Massachusetts....

The Cambridge prosecutor quickly and clearly disagreed with your above opinion, thus the instant dunking of the bogus charges leveled in error by Officer Crowley.

 

[barman]

PP imagines: In any case.The cambridge libs won't allow the audio of the transmissins to go public because it will be a total embarassment to Gates, the black mayor of Cambridge,the black govenor of Ma. and the black POTUS....and they know it.

Bar: Those transmissions are public property and can be had by anyone willing to file a FOIA request. Journalists nationwide routinely obtain such communications.

PP: The police comish and union have stated they back Crowley 100% on all his actions...

Bar: Oh my! The higher officers and the union back a police officer's actions! Stop the presses here.

 

[PatPatriot]

Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Pat Patriot
I'll buy that.
It still does not make the arrest unlawful or unjust.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, OK I'll oblige. Please explain. So let's see....the arrest was not lawful BUT it was not unlawful?

Go ahead, please explain this Mr. Clinton.
<!-- / message -->

You can parse and split hairs down but you continue to lose.

PROBABLE CAUSE - A reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime. The test the court of appeals employs to determine whether probable cause existed for purposes of arrest is whether facts and circumstances within the officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime

it was a lawful arrest...having the charges dropped does not make it unlawful

 

[punter]

I am talking about the Mallahan case and not you quote the Mulvey case. Good lord. I know the first letter is the same, but come on now.

There are "spin doctors" and then theres mj. Hes a twist doctor.

Pat is just twisted.

 

[barman]

Relative to a high faluting elitist Harvard know it all you know nothing proffessor he was raving maniac.

First prize for most unintelligible mangled syntax in many weeks...props

 

[PatPatriot]

PP: The police comish and union have stated they back Crowley 100% on all his actions...

Bar: Oh my! The higher officers and the union back a police officer's actions! Stop the presses here. <!-- / message -->

Oh no no no.
The police administration would run like fucking cowards if there were even an inkiling this smelled of racism...those in the admin are mostly political hacks and would empty their entire bowels on this cop if it were even to come closr to hurting them.
For them to be on the cop side is way biiger story than the unions.

 

[PatPatriot]

First prize for most unintelligible mangled syntax in many weeks...props

Changing the subject...smells like victory to me.

 

[barman]

"Probable cause" can best be demonstrated by whether or not the reasoning cited would be sufficient to obtain a warrant for entry into the private residence.

Based on the evidence cited within the police report and also the evidence cited by Mr Gates's report of the incident, Officer Crowley would have been wholly unable to obtain a legal warrant permitting him entry into Gates's private residence.

 

[D2bets]

You can parse and split hairs down but you continue to lose.



it was a lawful arrest...having the charges dropped does not make it unlawful

Again, moving the ball. My point all along is that Gates in fact did not commit the crime that he was charged with. Period. Are you now in agreement this or not? Simple yes or no will do.

 

[barman]

Oh no no no.
The police administration would run like fucking cowards if there were even an inkiling this smelled of racism...those in the admin are mostly political hacks and would empty their entire bowels on this cop if it were even to come closr to hurting them.
For them to be on the cop side is way biiger story than the unions.

Your racist attitudes as consistently expressed here the past few years belie the reality I've experienced in my own interaction with police of all races and political persuasions going back almost a decade. It's a very, very rare (5% would be a generous estimate) case when police officials don't immediately get the back of officer(s) who have fumbled the ball while on the job.

Far be it from me to talk you out of your deep-seated bitterness on topics such as these.

 

[barman]

Changing the subject...smells like victory to me.

I would have been glad to offer a retort to your post, but it was so unintelligble, I have no idea what you were trying to say.