My Oklahoma vs. Florida analysis...(way too long)

Search
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
555
Tokens
Not sure you can say UF has faced two better O-lines this year than OU's. Assuming you're talking about Ole Miss and Bama, that's a very questionable statement. OU's o-line has paved the way for their success this season, and may very well be considered the strength of their team.

And Major...you douchebag. How many times already in this thread have I praised UF in some way or another? All you do is sound like a Gator hack straight from gatorcountry or gatorbait...
 

UF. Champion U.
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
12,281
Tokens
Everyone know the SEC was down this year, way down. Look at the avg points scored by sec teams florida played.
Bama 12-1 21ppg
O Miss 8-4 17ppg
Ark 5-7 14ppg
ga 9-3 18ppg
vandy 6-6 12ppg
scar 7-5 14ppg
tn 5-7 11ppg
ky 6-6 12ppg
These ppg's are based on all 12 games, to say the sec offenses this year were anemic is a gross understatement.

Dude, where are you getting your stats from? Youre average PPG numbers are way off.

We can't look at how many points per game each team scores or gives up and look acorss the board and say Oklahoma scores 50 a game and Florida scores 40 a game. And we cant look at the defenses and compare and say Florida gives up 13 per game and Oklahoma gives up 20+. But we can look at the ratios of how these teams effect what their opponents usually do.

Top 4 conference foes:
GA averages 30+ PPG. (10 vs. FL)
Ole Miss 31 PPG (31 vs. FL)
LSU 30+ PPG (21 vs. FL)
Bama 30+ PPG (20 vs. FL)

Top 2 out of conference foes:
Miami 27PPG (3 vs. FL)
FSU 32PPG (15 vs. FL)

FL holds opponents to roughly 45% less of an output than what the team usually scores. That puts FL on pace to hold Oklahoma to 30 points if this holds true. Very similar to their point output vs. Texas.

Best team FL faced was Bama. Held Bama to 33% less than what they usually score. Puts Oklahoma on pace for 35 points if this holds true.


OKLAHOMA

Top 4 conference foes:
Texas 43 PPG (45 vs Oklahoma)
Tech 44 PPG (21 vs. Oklahoma)
OK ST 41 PPG (41 vs. Oklahoma)
Mizzou 43PPG (21 vs. Oklahoma)

Top 2 out of conference foes:
TCU 35 PPG (10 vs. Oklahoma)
Cincy 27 PPG (26 vs. Oklahoma)

Oklahoma holds opponents to roughly 30% less than what the opponent usually scores. Puts Florida on pace for 32 points.

Best team Oklahoma faced was Texas. Texas scored more points vs. Oklahoma than what they usually average (102% more). Puts Florida on pace for 46 points.



DEFENSES:
FLORIDA:
Top 4 conf defenses Florida faced:
Bama gives up 13 PPG (Gave up 31 vs. FL)
UT gives up 16 PPG (Gave up 30 vs. FL)
Miss gives up 17 PPG (gave up 30 vs. FL)
USC gives up 20 PPG (Gave up 56 vs. FL)

Out of conference
FSU gives up 21 PPG (Gave up 45 vs. FL)
Miami gives up 24 PPG (Gave up 26 vs. FL)

Florida scores 96% more than what the opponents usually give up. Puts Florida on pace to score 47 points.

Best defense Florida faced was Bama. They usually give up 13, Florida scored 31. Florida scored 138% more vs. the best defense they faced. Puts them on pace to score 59 vs. Oklahoma.


OKLAHOMA:
Top 4 conf defenses faced:
Texas gives up 19PPG (Gave up 35 vs. Oklahoma)
OK ST gives up 27 PPG (Gave up 61 vs. Oklahoma)
Nebraska gives up 29 PPG (Gave up 62 vs. Oklahoma)
Texas Tech gives up 26 PPG (Gave up 65 to Oklahoma)

Out of conference:
TCU gives up 11PPG (Gave up 35 to Oklahoma)
Cincy gives up 20 PPG (Gave up 52 to Oklahoma)

Oklahoma scores 134% more than what opponents usually give up. Puts them on pace to score 31 points vs. Florida.

Best defense Oklahoma faced was TCU (OUT OF CONFERENCE DEFENSE!!!). Oklahoma scored 35 vs. TCU. 218% more than what they usually give up. Puts them on pace to socre 41 vs. Florida. Some may argue Texas was the best defense they faced, and that makes their output even worse.


Taking all of the projected points and averaging them out gives us the following:

Florida O cumulative avg. vs. top teams = 47
Florida O avg vs. best team = 59
Florida D cumulative avg. vs. top teams = 30
Florida D avg vs. best team = 35

Oklahoma O cumulative avg. vs. top teams = 31
Oklahoma O avg vs. best team = 41
Oklahoma D cumulative avg. vs. top teams = 32
Oklahoma D avg vs. best team = 46

Florida 46
Oklahoma 34

Eerily similar score to the Texas game using this logic.
 

UF. Champion U.
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
12,281
Tokens
Box, that's the longest explanation I've ever seen as to how lightning got harnassed. Franklin himself would be impressed.

Personally, I think your whole physics explanation is a bunch of gibberish though. If Rainey has to run farther, he also has a headstart - he's running full-speed towards the endzone when he comes through the whole, while the defender has to turn around and then get up to speed.

And since when can a UF football player not run 40 yards without getting so winded that it slows him down? C'mon, I know your track stars are in better shape than that.

Bottom line is Rainey had a groin-injury. That's fine, and a perfectly reasonable excuse. What about Demps though? Sure, Mangum may have had a slight angle, but Demps had everything right of the left hash-mark to work with, headed for the sideline, and he still ended up getting caught before the endzone. You're gonna tell me that this 100m track champion got winded, isn't stronger in the longs than Corey freaking Mangum, or Mangum spends more time running in mud?

I just think it deserves to be pointed out, because the media has perpetuated this myth that UF's speed guys are uncatchable, the fastest on earth, etc, and it builds up a public perception that is not entirely true.


As for this game...TNBanker did an excellent job pointing out part of what I'm saying. SEC offensive football this year flat-out sucked. It just did. Big 12 offensive football this year was flat-out amazing. The differences between the two conferences on this side of the ball is almost entirely responsible for the difference in stats/defensive rankings. The talent-level if comparable, as is the coaching...one team just played against offensive masterminds week after week, while the other played against a bunch of coaches about to be fired for their inability to field an offense.

The rain and running surface is a very basic concept to understand, bud. You are dismissing it as gibberish and it holds more water, no pun intended, than you are giving it credit for.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
555
Tokens
^And yet you don't even bother trying to explain Demps being run down by a backup defensive back that *does not* have stronger legs than Demps.
 

UF. Champion U.
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
12,281
Tokens
Not sure you can say UF has faced two better O-lines this year than OU's. Assuming you're talking about Ole Miss and Bama, that's a very questionable statement. OU's o-line has paved the way for their success this season, and may very well be considered the strength of their team.

And Major...you douchebag. How many times already in this thread have I praised UF in some way or another? All you do is sound like a Gator hack straight from gatorcountry or gatorbait...


Again, don't be quick to dismiss the Ole Miss and Bama lines so quickly. Michael Oher from Ole Miss and Andre Smith from Bama are both projected to be top 5 picks in the first round of the 2008 Draft. Antoine Caldwell the Center for Bama is a 1st team ALL-SEC center, the leader of their team, outstanding lineman and projected 2-3 round pick. Ole Miss' other linemen, I forget his name is also a 2-3 round porjected pick.

So Bama has the 2 most critical positions on the line (Left tackle and center) filled with studs, they preach the running game and pounding the ball, they are a trenches-oriented team. I would argue that Bama has as good of an O-Line as anyone.

Florida has faced two O-Lines like Oklahoma's, with just as much, if not more talent.

Oklahoma's line is very very very very good, easily, no doubt about it a top 5 line. But Florida has faced lines like that this year already and this will be nothing new for them.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
555
Tokens
Oh, I'm certainly not dismissing Bama or Ole Miss. Their lines are incredible, no doubt about it.

I'm just saying it's not fair to automatically place OU's line third and say UF has already faced two better lines. OU's is every bit as good as Bama's and Ole Miss' I think.
 

UF. Champion U.
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
12,281
Tokens
^And yet you don't even bother trying to explain Demps being run down by a backup defensive back that *does not* have stronger legs than Demps.

Because I took 100 paragraphs to explain that running on a surface like that is not conducive for speed players and I would argue that it is a skill in itself to run on a surface like that. That is why some players slip and fall and others don't. Some are better at running, at cutting, at shifting on surfaces like that than others. It wasnt just a damp surface, the field was soaked and I havent seen a player get tackled and slide 6 yards while on the ground in a very long time. It wasnt just a damp field, and to compare running speeds on a surface like that is not how you do it.

If you want to say Floridas defense hasnt been tested, I can see that argument. If you want to say Tim Tebow is not an NFL QB, I can see that argument.

But saying Demps and Rainey arent fast and it is a myth because Rainey has a groin injury and Demps had a guy have an angle on him on a historically drenched field and they got caught is not the best way to determine that and if you entered the state science fair when you were 6 years old, there is something called variables and there are way too many variables in this experiment to come away with a conclusive answer.

Demps has not been caught all year, and LSU, and everyone else has just as good of athletes as FSU and be broke away from them on dry surfaces. Shit he broke away from guys that had angles on him on dry surfaces. You dont find it a little odd that they were run down on a soaked field? Yet they havent been run down all year?
 
Last edited:

UF. Champion U.
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
12,281
Tokens
Oh, I'm certainly not dismissing Bama or Ole Miss. Their lines are incredible, no doubt about it.

I'm just saying it's not fair to automatically place OU's line third and say UF has already faced two better lines. OU's is every bit as good as Bama's and Ole Miss' I think.

Yeah I would agree with that. I mean, it's splitting hairs at this point, but the point remains, this is yet another good O-Line Florida will face. Except this time, you've got a playmaking QB, not a game manager (parker-wilson, snead), you've got an NFL TE, you've got some different things to cover and you cant just load up on the run.
 

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
1,395
Tokens
Not sure you can say UF has faced two better O-lines this year than OU's. Assuming you're talking about Ole Miss and Bama, that's a very questionable statement. OU's o-line has paved the way for their success this season, and may very well be considered the strength of their team.

And Major...you douchebag. How many times already in this thread have I praised UF in some way or another? All you do is sound like a Gator hack straight from gatorcountry or gatorbait...


This is not true... OU's offensive line is extremely overrated. They got totally shutdown on the ground vs the likes of TCU, Texas even BAYLOR, yes BAYLOR look at the stats. They averaged 3.7 yards a carry!

I live in Dallas here and the group of guys I hang out with ALL went to OU with the exception of one. They have said all year how the o-line is overrated and watching 3-4 of OU's games this year I see exactly what they mean. They simply aren't as good as advertised.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
555
Tokens
Box, where did I ever say Demps and Rainey aren't fast? I've said it half a dozen times that UF is damn fast, and those guys are (obviously) some of their fastest.

And maybe FSU has players better suited to running in mud puddles. That could be it. I'm just not sure I buy it, as these kids come from the same places, are physically trained much the same way, and all generally have the same physique. And I don't think anybody in FSU's secondary aside from Rolle are really any stronger than Demps in the lower-body. Carter, Mangum, Garvin, the Robinsons...they're built in the same mold as every other small, speedy Florida athlete you see on UM's, UF's, and FSU's roster (from Demps, to Carter, to Jacory Harris, to Jenkins). The bottom line is that they got caught, and they could get caught again. Not every football field is a perfectly manicured track surface, and not every football player is going to be 100% healthy.

Mud puddle or not, good team defense (especially in additon to a sore groin) can catch these uncatchable athletes, a point that nobody on ESPN, CBS, or therxforum has bothered to point out this year. I've watched a lot of football this year, and listened to a lot of commentary, and the overwhelming consensus that's been put forth for the public is that UF is so incredibly fast on offense that they are unstoppable and uncatchable. I'm using the FSU game as anecdotal evidence (no matter how flawed you think I may be due to your long-winded physics explanation) that these five months of hype have likely inflated the line a bit from what I truly see as a pick'em.

Regardless of the outcome of this game, I truly think it's a perfect coin toss. At the very beginning of the season I predicted this national title game (not here, but amongst friends), and while I predicted UF to win it back then, I've simply been too impressed by OU's offensive efficiency to not keep backing them.

Can't wait 'till January 8th...all things point towards one hell of a game.
 

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
1,395
Tokens
Box, where did I ever say Demps and Rainey aren't fast? I've said it half a dozen times that UF is damn fast, and those guys are (obviously) some of their fastest.

And maybe FSU has players better suited to running in mud puddles. That could be it. I'm just not sure I buy it, as these kids come from the same places, are physically trained much the same way, and all generally have the same physique. And I don't think anybody in FSU's secondary aside from Rolle are really any stronger than Demps in the lower-body. Carter, Mangum, Garvin, the Robinsons...they're built in the same mold as every other small, speedy Florida athlete you see on UM's, UF's, and FSU's roster (from Demps, to Carter, to Jacory Harris, to Jenkins). The bottom line is that they got caught, and they could get caught again. Not every football field is a perfectly manicured track surface, and not every football player is going to be 100% healthy.

Mud puddle or not, good team defense (especially in additon to a sore groin) can catch these uncatchable athletes, a point that nobody on ESPN, CBS, or therxforum has bothered to point out this year. I've watched a lot of football this year, and listened to a lot of commentary, and the overwhelming consensus that's been put forth for the public is that UF is so incredibly fast on offense that they are unstoppable and uncatchable. I'm using the FSU game as anecdotal evidence (no matter how flawed you think I may be due to your long-winded physics explanation) that these five months of hype have likely inflated the line a bit from what I truly see as a pick'em.

Regardless of the outcome of this game, I truly think it's a perfect coin toss. At the very beginning of the season I predicted this national title game (not here, but amongst friends), and while I predicted UF to win it back then, I've simply been too impressed by OU's offensive efficiency to not keep backing them.

Can't wait 'till January 8th...all things point towards one hell of a game.



This is one of the dumber arguments ever. Who gives a shit that Rainey and Demps were caught on a wet field. Like Box said, On a dry field they woulnd't have been caught plain and simple.

How many FSU players hold the state record for the 100 meters? ZERO

Was FSU in the game against UF? No, they got bitch slapped.

Next...
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
555
Tokens
Do you know for certain that it's gonna be a dry field on January 8th?

And what the hell does FSU getting blown out have to do with any of this? Ah, that's right...absolutely nothing. Just a cheap jab by an angry Gator prick.

And FYI, Michael Ray Garvin is a member of the FSU track team, where he's run a 10.21, four-hundreths of a second (absolutely miniscule difference) slower than your boy Demps.
 

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
1,395
Tokens
Do you know for certain that it's gonna be a dry field on January 8th?

And what the hell does FSU getting blown out have to do with any of this? Ah, that's right...absolutely nothing. Just a cheap jab by an angry Gator prick.

And FYI, Michael Ray Garvin is a member of the FSU track team, where he's run a 10.21, four-hundreths of a second (absolutely miniscule difference) slower than your boy Demps.


First, I'm not angry at all! We're playing for the National title for the second time in 3 years, I'm elated!

I was merely pointing out that catching somebody on a wet field also has NOTHING to do with this game. You stated that FSU's defense is faster than OU's to begin with(which I totally agree) so who cares if the field is wet on jan 8th.

It's obvious by the name calling and hatred on UF that you have clearly sold yourself on taking OU... in any case best of luck. :103631605
 

CoachLT is my Obi Wan Kenobi
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
3,343
Tokens
Not sure you can say UF has faced two better O-lines this year than OU's. Assuming you're talking about Ole Miss and Bama, that's a very questionable statement. OU's o-line has paved the way for their success this season, and may very well be considered the strength of their team.

And Major...you douchebag. How many times already in this thread have I praised UF in some way or another? All you do is sound like a Gator hack straight from gatorcountry or gatorbait...


Yeah namecalling is a great way to make yourself sound credible. Good work.
 

CoachLT is my Obi Wan Kenobi
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
3,343
Tokens
^And yet you don't even bother trying to explain Demps being run down by a backup defensive back that *does not* have stronger legs than Demps.

Go watch the play again. Demps was not run down. He was blowing BY the DB when he dove at Demps feet and ankle tackled him. Another half step and demps was long gone.
 

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
1,395
Tokens
Yeah namecalling is a great way to make yourself sound credible. Good work.


Well consider the source... I'm sure you've been to tally; people's vocabulary there doesn't go much further past name calling.
 

CoachLT is my Obi Wan Kenobi
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
3,343
Tokens
Do you know for certain that it's gonna be a dry field on January 8th?

And what the hell does FSU getting blown out have to do with any of this? Ah, that's right...absolutely nothing. Just a cheap jab by an angry Gator prick.

And FYI, Michael Ray Garvin is a member of the FSU track team, where he's run a 10.21, four-hundreths of a second (absolutely miniscule difference) slower than your boy Demps.

It's neither here nor there, but Demps had a 10.01 which is 2/10s or quite a lot. That said, Garvin can fly and more often than not I think he'd be right there with Demps.
 

UF. Champion U.
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
12,281
Tokens
Box, where did I ever say Demps and Rainey aren't fast? I've said it half a dozen times that UF is damn fast, and those guys are (obviously) some of their fastest.

And maybe FSU has players better suited to running in mud puddles. That could be it. I'm just not sure I buy it, as these kids come from the same places, are physically trained much the same way, and all generally have the same physique. And I don't think anybody in FSU's secondary aside from Rolle are really any stronger than Demps in the lower-body. Carter, Mangum, Garvin, the Robinsons...they're built in the same mold as every other small, speedy Florida athlete you see on UM's, UF's, and FSU's roster (from Demps, to Carter, to Jacory Harris, to Jenkins). The bottom line is that they got caught, and they could get caught again. Not every football field is a perfectly manicured track surface, and not every football player is going to be 100% healthy.

Mud puddle or not, good team defense (especially in additon to a sore groin) can catch these uncatchable athletes, a point that nobody on ESPN, CBS, or therxforum has bothered to point out this year. I've watched a lot of football this year, and listened to a lot of commentary, and the overwhelming consensus that's been put forth for the public is that UF is so incredibly fast on offense that they are unstoppable and uncatchable. I'm using the FSU game as anecdotal evidence (no matter how flawed you think I may be due to your long-winded physics explanation) that these five months of hype have likely inflated the line a bit from what I truly see as a pick'em.

Regardless of the outcome of this game, I truly think it's a perfect coin toss. At the very beginning of the season I predicted this national title game (not here, but amongst friends), and while I predicted UF to win it back then, I've simply been too impressed by OU's offensive efficiency to not keep backing them.

Can't wait 'till January 8th...all things point towards one hell of a game.


But my man, you are missing the point of speed, which is a very common misconception. They dont mention it because it has no bearing on the football game.

It's not just the ability to not get caught from behind. That really has nothing to do with anything. That is breakaway speed, and it rarely comes into play in a football game but maybe 1-2 plays per game depending on the offense. It has such a minimal impact. It is the accelaration, the quickness, seeing the tiniest opening and getting through that small gap before it closes on you and there is nothing left to run through. The linemen don't have to hold their blocks as long. The ability to get to the corner before pursuit hits you. THAT is where speed comes into play on a play by play, not foot races down the sideline. If you are into the secondary, the battle has already been won.

Some teams have 1 guy like a Demps (LSU has their Holliday, FSU has their Parker, etc), who can get a very small crease and explode through it before it closes. But people don't understand that speed is only good and speed is only a factor when a player is FRESH. If you're tired and not running your hardest, your speed advantage is gone. It's why guys like Joey Galloway, or even Ted Ginn, sit on the sideline for 6 plays, then come in for 2 plays - although Ginn has been playing a bit more lately.

Anyway, when you have 3 guys like Harvin, Rainey and Demps, 3 guys that are spread out all over the field - you have to cover the entire field and not give them any creases. You've got Louis Murphy on the edge, you've got Brandon James rotating in, you've got Deonte Thompson, etc and you put all of your speed package in on defense and then Tim Tebow runs them over. Or Florida can choose to rotate the speed guys in, and every play they have a very fresh speed guy rotated in vs. a tired defense - which is what they do a lot. Demps in for 2 plays, he goes out. Rainey in for 2 plays. He goes out. Harvin for 3 plays. Demps back in. They keep rotating fresh legs and fresh speed guys into the game.

That is where speed kills. Not pointless foot races down the sidelines.
 
Last edited:

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
13
Tokens
Do not compare anything that happened in the Florida-FSU game. FSU defense looked bad against any team that knew what they were doing on offense. FSU's secondary is horrible wet or dry and especially the rhoades scholar Rolle. Oklahoma's D will have a much better performance with the time to prepare.
 

Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
7,041
Tokens
Dude, you guys arguing about the strength in a kids legs? REALLY? Stop talking about a kid and how he got run down in a fucking monsoon. It's all pointless. Concentrate more on how a team chock full of athletes (TEXAS), beat OU by 10 points on a neutral field. Now add about 5-6 more athletes to the mix, and you have an old fashioned ass whipping coming to OU. Don't overthink it. All you have to do is look what Texas did to OU, and you'll see what Florida will do to them. GS or any other Sooner has failed to mention how OU has changed schemes since that game, BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T. They came upon inferior talent and beat the shit out of them and ran the score up on them. We're getting INCREDIBLE value by only having to give 3 points to OU. It's a fucking gift. Take it and move on. End of story. Yes, it's that easy to breakdown. BOL this bowl season....
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,811
Messages
13,573,542
Members
100,877
Latest member
kiemt5385
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com