I gave up my aspirations of playing the game professionally a long time ago. I was probably the equivelant of a AAA player, in a sport where the major leagues don't pay much.
There used to be a few dozen American pro players from Fla and CT in the 70's,80's, and 90's.
One of the best was a black kid ( rare in jai alai), he played as Tevin in Milford. He might still be active in Miami ?
One guy I knew well ( Cruz) quit at about 35, to take a job as a cop, smart move. It was his last chance to get a real career, and he got out before it died.
No future once your done playing, low pay while you do play. About all you can do after playing is be a judge ( what they call the officials).
It was big when it came here in the 70's, casinos killed it.
Tough game to beat betting, takeout of around 20%.
Jai alai cannot be appreciated on a TV monitor, you have to see ( and hear) it live. Great seats were always dirt cheap.
The officials were always terrible, blowing calls all the time, in particular over/under serves. Crowds got pretty rowdy, back when there were crowds.
I think the game will survive a few more years in Florida. Miami has the best players.
Tevin is still active in Miami
Just curious about what your thoughts are regarding games being 'rigged' as someone mentioned.
Also, do you have any idea how much money the players get paid these days, and also what they make per win?
By the way, the sound is pretty good on the online broadcast, and I agree, thats a big part of the atmosphere of the game
Just curious about what your thoughts are regarding games being 'rigged' as someone mentioned.
Also, do you have any idea how much money the players get paid these days, and also what they make per win?
By the way, the sound is pretty good on the online broadcast, and I agree, thats a big part of the atmosphere of the game
I have a pretty good understanding of the economics of the game.
It has been rigged in the past in Milford, by a few players, notably an American player named Kirby, and a few cohorts. Little info is available online about it. Kirby was a not very good, early games frontcourtman.
To rig it, you need to attack the betting pools. Nearly nothing is bet on W/P/S. Exactas get small action. Q's are the 2nd most bet market, but the money is spread over only 28 combinations.
Trifecta is the pool to try to hit. There are 336 combinations of 8 post positions. If you could get enough coercion to eliminate 3 post positions of the 8, you'd have an advantage betting.
Tri's are well over 50% of the money bet on a game. However you'd also need to hit difficult tri's like 8-6-5,6-5-7,6-8-5,7-8-5, etc. Easier tri's like 5-3-2,8-5-3,2-1-5,4-1-3,etc., would get split too many ways. You have to understand the spectacular seven scoring system to understand why this is.
Players get a salary, later game ( better) players make more $. They get a purse for W/P/S, but it's not huge.... maybe $100 for a W, less for P/S, and split it with their partner in doubles.
I think they only get one year contracts, and if they don't win enough games, they are gone next year... or demoted from late games to early games.
A star player in the old days of jai-alai might make 100k, less now with betting so low. handles are way down from the 80's. An average player now, probably makes less than the mailman. You can't pay the players well, if no bets come in, they are paid out of the 20% hold, and you need 40-50 players on a roster.
I doubt there is any fixing going on now, the players may not have a very good attitude, and not care much anymore.... like a Manny Ramirez.
I don't know if kids in Spain even play jai alai much these days, probably not, like baseball here.
There never was great money in playing the game, has to be much worse now. You can't really come to the US to get big money. Mexico used to pay the best.
Here are results for Miami on Weds matinee 12/10:
http://www.racinomiami.com/results/12-10MAT.TXT
attendance: 400, pretty sad figure. You'd get 5,000 + in CT decades ago.
handle : 107k / over 14 games, or $7600 a game average
that's probably split about:
$4500 tri
$2000 Q
$800 Exacta/Perfecta ( same thing)
$300 W/P/S
tough to rig a tri pool of $4500, needs a unique ticket on a hard tri like 7-8-6, and all 16 players in the game co-operating to achieve this ridiculous result, ain't gonna happen for no money to be gained.
players are likely not playing their best for UPS driver type money.
You can't handicap this game well enough to make money. You can see a guy is off on a particular night.... maybe marital problems, his dog died, hungover, whatever, when you see it live. Don't bet him the next games. Maybe another guy is coked up, or just "on" like a pitcher with his stuff that day.
Little motivation exists to bust your ass for virtually nothing.
It was way different back in the day, like Bridgeport Jai alai around 1979. The best players in the world, big crowds ( packed house), loud crowd,$500k+ handles, electric atmosphere.
You have to see it live, monitors aren't the same. Players that are the best, and care make a huge difference.
It will never be the same.
My dad swears he got an edge in the 70's in CT and bought a nice TV by grinding out wins with a 1-2-3-4 quinnela box ($12) each game.
worked because of the rotation. doug knows what I mean. I tried this at Dania and lost. I believe because the payouts were much worse ( lower handle) than when he was going.
worked because of the rotation. doug knows what I mean. I tried this at Dania and lost. I believe because the payouts were much worse ( lower handle) than when he was going.
The others — in Fort Pierce, Ocala, Orlando and Jasper — hold matches as few as 30 days a year just to satisfy their gambling license. That allows them to run much more lucrative poker rooms.
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I've been to all of those but Jasper, that didn't exist back in the day. I'm sure I could have made the current Jasper 30 day roster , if I were 18 now, I wasn't quite good enough to make pro, like an AAA baseball player, not making the bigs.
With jai alai, like most sports, you must make it by 20 or so, can play to 40, even near 50 in jai alai, if you are a great steady backcourtman, 40 for a frontman, losing a step hurts in a speed position.
I'm familiar with the greats like Egurbi,Churruca Chimela,,Bolivar,Juaristi,Joey ( best Gringo), many others. I've met a few of them.
I've known many lower level pros, and tossed some pelotas with them.
It takes some time to learn how to hit the front wall (frontis) with a pelota, because of the curvature of a cesta, that's why a baseball player can't do it. I could teach ching chong wong ( NYY), or anybody to do it from the serve line, in 30 minutes.... you have to keep your elbow straight, to prevent throwing the pelota into the floor.
I could serve a pelota right now, and I bet I put it in the box, and I'm legally handicapped !, but that's BS. just a leftover benefit from a broken ankle.
I'd want an hour to practice, after 25 years.
I can't move like a pro, but I'd still catch a ball at me, never worry about getting hit. I'd play with amateurs even now, but that's more dangerous than playing with pros.
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I've been to all of those but Jasper, that didn't exist back in the day. I'm sure I could have made the current Jasper 30 day roster , if I were 18 now, I wasn't quite good enough to make pro, like an AAA baseball player, not making the bigs.
With jai alai, like most sports, you must make it by 20 or so, can play to 40, even near 50 in jai alai, if you are a great steady backcourtman, 40 for a frontman, losing a step hurts in a speed position.
I'm familiar with the greats like Egurbi,Churruca Chimela,,Bolivar,Juaristi,Joey ( best Gringo), many others. I've met a few of them.
I've known many lower level pros, and tossed some pelotas with them.
It takes some time to learn how to hit the front wall (frontis) with a pelota, because of the curvature of a cesta, that's why a baseball player can't do it. I could teach ching chong wong ( NYY), or anybody to do it from the serve line, in 30 minutes.... you have to keep your elbow straight, to prevent throwing the pelota into the floor.
I could serve a pelota right now, and I bet I put it in the box, and I'm legally handicapped !, but that's BS. just a leftover benefit from a broken ankle.
I'd want an hour to practice, after 25 years.
I can't move like a pro, but I'd still catch a ball at me, never worry about getting hit. I'd play with amateurs even now, but that's more dangerous than playing with pros.
I used to go all the time to the Hartford, Milford & Bridgeport Frontons.
The best player ever in my opinion was Cachin. Man was a terror, especially in singles.
Hartford used to have 1 or 2 games per card where they would have 3 man teams. It was crazy seeing 6 guys out there at once.
Badiola was a great fixer. a few of the guys have been caught fixing in CT. Once in a while if I am at OTB, I'll take a glance and see them dump the pelota out and I'll just laugh. It's as crooked as it comes. I'd rather play 3 card monte on a street corner before placing a jai alai bet LOL
I will never forget the 7-6-5 tri I hit at Bridgeport for almost 7 G's. The crazier the numbers, the better the payout.
Milford ( ct) players used to have a split season, nearly all went to Dania in the winter, virtually identical roster.
The typical pro court is 180' in length, but can be over 200', even 220'.
An amateur pelota court runs more like 150', but you first play with a rubber ball ( like a lacrosse ball) on 60-80' courts. Even a tennis ball at first. Tough game to learn.
The typical pro court is 180' in length, but can be over 200', even 220'.
An amateur pelota court runs more like 150', but you first play with a rubber ball ( like a lacrosse ball) on 60-80' courts. Even a tennis ball at first. Tough game to learn.
I went down to Milford when I was 20 and wanted to play & they told me I was too old. They said I had to be under 16 to start.
I've seen a few guys get cracked in the head by their backcourt mate and man is that some scary shit. Sounded like a bomb going off.
Funniest time was at Hartford when me & my buddies were thrown out for yelling at the players. My buddy went nuts when one of them dumped a return. I dont think it was the yelling as much as it was my buddy threatening to kill the guy LOL. ( a few too many beers at the fronton will do that to you)
I've seen a few guys get cracked in the head by their backcourt mate and man is that some scary shit. Sounded like a bomb going off.
Funniest time was at Hartford when me & my buddies were thrown out for yelling at the players. My buddy went nuts when one of them dumped a return. I dont think it was the yelling as much as it was my buddy threatening to kill the guy LOL. ( a few too many beers at the fronton will do that to you)
I remember Cachin very well, he used to play under another name.... something like Uriarte, definetly a top player. I never even practised with guys like that, just lower level pros and good amateurs.
I've seen the 3 man stuff in Milford, that was a novelty, IMO. I think it's more dangerous, and I doubt players liked it.
I remember Baddy, a pretty good backman, IMO., but a fatfuck, had about a 2" vertical leap, almost like PO playing jai alai :missingte
I think he took a ball to the face, and was out a long time, came back with a face-shield like you see in the NBA, as I recall.
The game is tough, what looks like a dump to you, can be a pelota with extreme spin, that is hard to control. It's hard to understand without having played the game... what looks easy can be very hard in reality.
Any fixing stuff was way before Badiola.
I can't argue that jai alai has never been fixed before, it has. I argue that fixing it now is not practical.
Do you realise how hard it is to pre-determine a 7-6-5 tri ? You need to make a lot to make that happen, and you already had the ticket on it !
Did they fix it so you would win ? :nohead:
It's a tough game to play, and a tough game to fix. The money isn't there to fix it.
If I were an older player ( like a Tevin, now), why should I care ?
It's not like jai alai has been very very good to me !. You're a janitor when your career playing is done.
