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I really do think the welfare system has been the single most important factor why the black family and black community (most specifically black neighborhoods) have fallen apart.

What do you think about this statement GTC? I also think drugs played a part too.

welfare is way overrated when it comes to these discussions. lot of you guys think its an exorbonent amount. average welfare payout is 415 a month. you are still going to have to do something to get by since 415 a month is nothing. the picture woofdaddy presents of sitting at a mailbox waiting for your check is not realistic.

i think the main problem regarding blacks now is the single parent families. drugs are a moot point, everybody does drugs.
 

Triple digit silver kook
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gtc, you have to look further into the situation to really understand my point.

Generally speaking, a black guy starting a business to run a recording studio or a woman opening a nail and hair salon rock throwing distance from a half dozen other similar businesses, isnt really economic growth, for likely many of those types of businesses will fail. Very limited govt $ should be used for this type of thing imo. However compared to wasting it in Iraq, I agree give it to the American people. Id rather see govt out of most things.

The sba programs are good ideas, but alot of abuse as well. It isnt the govt that creates wealth. If you believe it is, then you really ought to leave the US.

As far as the # of blacks going to college, you are correct. However, how many of them are earning degrees such as engineering? This is also a problem among American white students. A black student earning another psychology or arts degree isnt exactly going to help the economy, nor is it going to help them gainfully find employment.

There is a big difference in being enrolled at a University and actually learning something useful while earning a degree.

While I was a college student, one of the various jobs I had during those years was at the library at the nearby community college. I think the student loans nowadays are dispursed differently. Then, you could set your watch, the day the student loan checks were dispursed, most of the welfare moms disappeared after that day until the following semester.

Basically it was another form of welfare. Lo and behold, Im sure the local hair and nail salons got plenty of business as a result of those student loan checks. I can also assure you that close to 0% of those people ever repaid one cent of those loans.


:grandmais
 

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gtc, you have to look further into the situation to really understand my point.

Generally speaking, a black guy starting a business to run a recording studio or a woman opening a nail and hair salon rock throwing distance from a half dozen other similar businesses, isnt really economic growth, for likely many of those types of businesses will fail.

The sba programs are good ideas, but alot of abuse as well. It isnt the govt that creates wealth. If you believe it is, then you really ought to leave the US.

As far as the # of blacks going to college, you are correct. However, how many of them are earning degrees such as engineering? This is also a problem among American white students. A black student earning another psychology or arts degree isnt exactly going to help the economy, nor is it going to help them gainfully find employment.

There is a big difference in being enrolled at a University and actually learning something useful while earning a degree.

While I was a college student, one of the various jobs I had during those years was at the library at the nearby community college. I think the student loans nowadays are dispursed differently. Then, you could set your watch, the day the student loan checks were dispursed, most of the welfare moms disappeared after that day until the following semester.

Basically it was another form of welfare. Lo and behold, Im sure the local hair and nail salons got plenty of business as a result of those student loan checks. I can also assure you that close to 0% of those people ever repaid one cent of those loans.


:grandmais


i still think you overblow the welfare thing though.

this is a fact that im about to state. 47 percent of people on welfare are working 2 or more jobs. there main use of welfare is for the extra temporary kickback to stay afloat when something comes up.

i think its convenient for people to say these people are lazy, etc. but majority of these people trying to survive working multiple jobs and need some additional assistance from the gov.
 

Triple digit silver kook
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I really do think the welfare system has been the single most important factor why the black family and black community (most specifically black neighborhoods) have fallen apart.

What do you think about this statement GTC? I also think drugs played a part too.

You should already know this, but people in the black ghetto, what exactly are they using to buy drugs?

Answer: Everyone cant steal from each other to produce net wealth. Money from their various welfare benefits is often used to get that 8-ball rolling.

I agree with you that drugs helped tear apart the black community, but I think you missing the root of the problem.
 

Triple digit silver kook
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i still think you overblow the welfare thing though.

this is a fact that im about to state. 47 percent of people on welfare are working 2 or more jobs. there main use of welfare is for the extra temporary kickback to stay afloat when something comes up.

i think its convenient for people to say these people are lazy, etc. but majority of these people trying to survive working multiple jobs and need some additional assistance from the gov.

im aware that alot of people working fall below the poverty line and receive various forms of govt welfare aid...food stamps, etc. however, there are still too many people that arent doing anything, except sucking off the system.

again, i think you are putting your own thoughts and incorrect assumptions into what im posting without having any real experience around these types of people.

they arent exactly lazy or stupid. some people will take whatever you give them. im saying what was given to the poor black community via welfare was a poison pill. if you drive around the poorer black communities that are in every major city and say anything other than that, you are either dumb, naive, lying to yourself or a combination.

it isnt as easy now like before when they only had to lay down and the welfare agency to come recruit them, and gladly people finally demanded some changes to the welfare system. lookie here, we have another handout...all you have to do is have a pulse, lay down and have kids (without naming a father of course) and the handouts (food, shelter, healthcare) will be forever yours.

i went to school (elementary, jr high, high school) with plenty of people on welfare, so ive seen this game and how people work the system. they were on welfare as kids, now they are on welfare themselves with bastard kids, and now even their bastard kids, have their own bastard kids.

most of them never worked, nor to they ever have any intention of ever working any more than they have to in order to keep the free housing and other benefits.

now, even the taxi companies here are in on the gag as they provide transportation for low income people.

all the day care centers around are also in on the gag. sometimes, the mothers will drop their kids off at daycare (of course paid by another govt handout), return home to sleep half the day. all paid for by uncle sam.

:lolBIG:
 

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even if you are correct about people abusing the system, what exactly are you going to do with 415 a month?
 

bushman
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even if you are correct about people abusing the system, what exactly are you going to do with 415 a month?
Correctomundo.
Plus folk on welfare spend every bean they get, none of it gets hidden away, it goes straight back into the system, creating jobs and making rich people like me and woofy, even richer.
:grandmais
 

Triple digit silver kook
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when you factor in someone completely on welfare (no above board tax paying job) is getting a rent-free apt, food stamps, subsidized utilities, free healthcare, free tuition if they choose to attend college, 415 a month is whats left to buy a few odds and ends and the rest (if they are an illegal drug user) is whats used to buy drugs.

again, ive been away from this atmosphere for a long time, so it may not happen now after govt tightened the belt on welfare, but I do remember kids in the projects parents leaving windows open during winter since the gas heat was paid by the housing authority. lol

the system was actually so ignorant, if welfare moms had additional bastard kids, they got a supplement added to their monthly benefits.

what a nightmare thats turned out to be and its one of the many reasons that today cities like detroit are loaded with blacks.

you posting about what exactly does 415 a month buy, sort of reminds me when i was in military and guys would bitch about the pay.

we didnt have to pay for the basics, food, shelter, healthcare was all included. other than a few odds and ends all our paycheck was ours.

the rest was blown on cars, clothes, booze, and long distance calls back home.
 

Triple digit silver kook
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Last post to you gtc until later tonight as this is cutting into my happy hour time and im in the mood to get a few laughs from listening to the smokers like eek at the pub complain about having to walk outside to smoke...fuck em.

Following up about how welfare people live well if they work the angles within the welfare system.

Im sure we've all heard this and I know I used to (still do sometimes) hear people bitching about black welfare people driving a cadillac to the grocery store and buying better groceries than they are.

thats true once in a while and here is how that gag works.

1. Woman has bastard kid and becomes welfare recipient...free apt, food stamps, free healthcare, all the freebies. If she has additional bastard kids, she gets added goodies with each additional bastard kid...rocket science, indeed.

2. Woman gets job working under the table doing whatever. you walk into a bar in inner city or lower class working neighborhood, most likely girl serving is being paid cash. same at hair/nail salons, corner stores, etc. plenty other jobs available working under the table. if she does that, her welfare check along with pay, becomes a better wage than most regular wage slaves. plus she has all the free welfare benefits.

3. Welfare decides to get some extra cash for Christmas time and again during spring for a weave and new spring wardrobe (ya know black women spend alot of $ on their hair and clothes), so she enrolls in some bs community college or beautician school. Since she is "low income", 100% of her tuition is paid for by Uncle Sam grants, and anything left over is hers to keep.

3a. She may as well "borrow" the maximum available student "loans", since she doesnt own anything, so what could creditors take from her when she defaults and she isnt planning to get an above board tax paying job (which would disqualify her for all the welfare goodies) after graduating anyway.

3b. When she defaults on the "loan", the banks already adjusted that into the rate, so the other people end up paying for it anyway.

4. Since the father of her kids isnt around or if he is, it isnt reported hes around, she takes in a live-in boyfriend. Maybe the guy has a job, maybe he doesnt, maybe hes dealing dope, maybe hes a real go-getter and is doing both.

4a. Anyway, this guy is living in a rent free place, maybe he buys some of his own food, maybe he doesnt. Anyway, any money he is making he can blow on cars, clothes, booze, anything else he chooses, as its 100% disposable income.

4b. Really, how bad of a life are people like this living? From what I saw as a kid, some of them lived pretty decent. Most of it directly paid for by Uncle Sam. Its kind of shady when you think about it, but with some ingenuity, the fruits can be impressive for the people playing the system.

People living like Ive posted above, really had no incentive to ever leave the welfare rolls....cant say I blame them.

An old wise man once told me that welfare mothers make better lovers...and now we know why.

:cripwalk:
 

Smell like "lemon juice and Pledge furniture clean
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welfare is way overrated when it comes to these discussions. lot of you guys think its an exorbonent amount. average welfare payout is 415 a month. you are still going to have to do something to get by since 415 a month is nothing. the picture woofdaddy presents of sitting at a mailbox waiting for your check is not realistic.

i think the main problem regarding blacks now is the single parent families. drugs are a moot point, everybody does drugs.


Two quick points: But I don't see crackhouses and shootouts in the burbs and single parent families are also part of the problem that was worsen by welfare and drugs. A lot of babies having babies. The blind leading the blind essentially.
 

Smell like "lemon juice and Pledge furniture clean
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By the way, I'm not for abolishing the whole welfare system because there are people out there who really need it but most use it as a crutch at the expense of taxpayers. Reform is definitely needed.
 

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Flight of the Dead: Suburban Families Move Loved Ones From Detroit Cemeteries
At precisely 8:57 a.m., under an overcast sky, Francesco and Francesca Imbrunone were re-laid to rest. A man in a dark suit stood over their remains proclaiming that they “await the resurrection.”

{snip**

By now the statistics are as well known in London as they are in Livonia. Detroit has lost half its population since its heyday of the 1950s, and every year the city hemorrhages an estimated 5,000 people more. First it was white flight to the suburbs; then with the city’s continued spiral into poverty and violence, blacks began to flee to those same suburbs. And while census figures show that whites are returning to some of the nation’s largest cities, Detroit is experiencing a flight of a different kind. As the Imbrunones’ second funeral demonstrates, Detroit is experiencing the flight of the dead.

The movement of the dead from the nation’s largest black city to its overwhelmingly white suburbs is a small, though socially symbolic phenomenon, revealing the grinding problems of race, crime and economics that plague both sides of Eight Mile.

From 2002 through 2007, the remains of about 1,000 people have been disinterred and moved out of the city, according to permits stored in metal filing cabinets in the city’s department of health. Looked at in another way, for about every 30 living human beings who leave Detroit, one dead human being follows. Moreover, anecdotal evidence compiled by a Detroit professor suggests the figure may be twice as high, meaning city records may be incomplete and that thousands upon thousands of deceased people have been relocated from the city over the past 20 years.

Moving to Macomb

The practice appears to be most common among families like the Imbrunones: former east side Catholic Detroiters who moved to Macomb County years ago, miles away from their dearly departed. The cemetery that appears to lose the most is Mount Olivet, located in the heart of the wild east side, with about 100 disinterments a year. The destination of choice seems to be Resurrection Cemetery in Clinton Township, which is now home to 11 members of the Imbrunone family.

Although there is little information or statistical evidence regarding the phenomenon across the country, it is quite likely that Detroit and its surrounding communities lead the way, as it does in population loss among the living.

The reasons are two-fold, surmises Patrick Lynch, a Clawson funeral home director and executive board member of the National Funeral Directors Association. “People have to drive to a place that may take them through neighborhoods they otherwise may never go,” he said. “Their safety might be compromised. Whether that is real or perceived, it’s real to them.

“Second, families have left the city and they want to bring their family members closer to them,” Lynch said. “People have grown older and they simply don’t or can’t drive to the city anymore. They want to be near to those they love.”

{snip**

Earlier this summer Peter Cracchiolo, 89, of Grosse Pointe Shores, removed his mother and sister from Mount Olivet and relocated them to Resurrection. Cracchiolo, too, grew up on the city’s east side and his family was part of the great white exodus. His explanation for moving his dearly departed was convenience, though the Detroit cemetery is closer to his home.

“I’ve already got relatives up there,” he said of the suburban cemetery. “I’ve got friends up there. It’s one-stop visiting this way. Me, I don’t forget my people. No sir.”

The children of Jack W. Noble Sr. moved their father in May to the Great Lakes National Cemetery in Holly from Gethsemane Cemetery in Detroit, citing the poor condition and upkeep of the cemetery, according to a permit filed with the city.

Dr. Stephen Vogel, dean of architecture at the University of Detroit Mercy, believes the out-migration of the dead from Detroit is undercounted.

He and his researchers conducted a study three years ago, interviewing the director of each of Detroit’s 28 cemeteries. According to that study, about 400 to 500 disinterments occur each year.

“What it says to me is that there is a deeply ingrained fear on the part of suburbanites in terms of their attitude toward the city and its hold is very powerful and very deep,” Vogel said. “When they’re afraid to cross Eight Mile to visit a cemetery, it tells you what we’re up against and any solutions are not going to be easy.”

{snip**
 

Militant Birther
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Some of us are able to refer overall judgment of other human beings to God, yet still choose associations based on preferences. Having a preference involves judgment to be sure, but it doesn't have to involve judging the overall worth of another human being.

Okay, but you've already stated you wouldn't want to live next door to 'X' because of their appearance. How is that not "judging the overall worth of another human being?"

If someone shares the same values that you do, holds a similar job, embraces a similar culture, attends the same church etc., what difference does a thing like complexion make? What harm is there in socializing and interacting with different races?

Now if you're speaking romantically, I would agree with you because attraction is subjective. You have your preferences, I have mine. Generally, I'm not attracted to black or most Asian women and most likely wouldn't date them, but that doesn't mean that my son wouldn't be. How could you prevent/control their attraction? And why would you want to?

I'm not judging your value system, I just don't understand it.

And for the record, I agree 100% with you and woof: modern ghetto black culture is toxic.
 
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By the way, I'm not for abolishing the whole welfare system because there are people out there who really need it but most use it as a crutch at the expense of taxpayers. Reform is definitely needed.
It's called "Workfare" & how about random piss tests for everybody on workfare?
 

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Okay, but you've already stated you wouldn't want to live next door to 'X' because of their appearance. How is that not "judging the overall worth of another human being?"

Let me turn it around and ask: do you judge the overall worth of anyone? I don't, yet I still choose who I'd like to associate with. It goes by feeling and impression more than anything.

Imagine how great you'd have to be for your personal preference to have implications on someone's overall worth!? I don't consider myself so great but if some others do, I'm flattered to say the least.

If someone shares the same values that you do, holds a similar job, embraces a similar culture, attends the same church etc., what difference does a thing like complexion make? What harm is there in socializing and interacting with different races?

Complexion says a lot about which continent an person's ancestors come from. If it's different from mine, then I'm pretty confident their culture is going to be different from mine because we have several thousand years of history hard-wired in us. They may do those superficial things similarly, but the potential is there for a closer bond if the deeper stuff is there as well.

Now if you're speaking romantically, I would agree with you because attraction is subjective. You have your preferences, I have mine. Generally, I'm not attracted to black or most Asian women and most likely wouldn't date them, but that doesn't mean that my son wouldn't be. How could you prevent/control their attraction? And why would you want to?

Obviously if they have an attraction, I'm not so arrogant as to think I can change it. I do have a theory, though, based on observation of various cultures and societies in history, that says that attraction is largely based on upbringing. The culture taught in American public schools and on television teaches that superficial looks and dance moves are the things that attract you to the opposite sex. In other cultures (like rural Eastern Europe, say) young women are more attracted by a man's character than by "hot" looks or dance moves, and it's not because they are genetically different. Kids with E. European heritage growing up in America will mate according to American mainstream values by and large, so it's pretty clear that upbringing makes the difference.

It goes without saying that I have a lot of say in how my kids are brought up, especially since I'm homeschooling them. I can't be sure how it will turn out, but I know that force is not the way to go so we shall see.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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back to the original topic

---------------------------

Foreclosure fallout: Houses go for a $1

DETROIT -- One dollar can get you a large soda at McDonald's, a used VHS movie at 7-Eleven or a house in Detroit.
The fact that a home on the city's east side was listed for $1 recently shows how depressed the real estate market has become in one of America's poorest big cities. And it still took 19 days to find a buyer.

The sale price of the home may be an anomaly, but illustrates both the depths of the foreclosure crisis in Detroit and the rapid scuttling of vacant homes in some of the city's impoverished neighborhoods.

The home...a few blocks from Detroit City Airport, was the nicest house on the block when it sold for $65,000 in November 2006. But the home was foreclosed last summer, and it wasn't long until "the vultures closed in. The siding was the first to go. Then they took the fence. Then they broke in and took everything else.

The company hired to manage the home and sell it, the Bearing Group, boarded up the home only to find the boards stolen and used to board up another abandoned home nearby. Scrappers tore out the copper plumbing, the furnace and the light fixtures, taking everything of value, including the kitchen sink.

"It doesn't make sense to put the family out," said neighbor Carl Upshaw. "Once people are gone, you're gonna lose the house in this neighborhood."

Tuesday, the home was wide open. Doors leading into the kitchen and the basement were missing, and the front windows had been smashed. Weeds grew chest-high, and charred remains marked a spot where the garage recently burned.
Put on the market in January for $1,100, the house had no lookers other than the squatters who sometimes stayed there at night. Facing $4,000 in back taxes and a large unpaid water bill, the bank that owned the property lowered the price to $1.

$1 sale to cost bank $10,000

While it's not unusual for $1 to be exchanged when property is transferred for legal reasons, listing a home in the Multiple Listing Service for $1 was surprising and unsettling to Kent Colpaert, the listing real estate agent for the property. "I've never seen a home listed for $1," Colpaert said. "But it's been hit hard: It's just a shell."

On Tuesday, Realtor.com listed one other single-family home, one duplex and one empty lot at $1 in Detroit

Dollar property sales are the financial hangover from the foreclosure crisis, said Anthony Viola of Realty Corp. of America in Cleveland. Lenders that made loans to unqualified buyers during the height of the subprime market now find themselves the owners of whole neighborhoods of vacant, deteriorating homes.

So desperate was the bank owner...to unload the property that it agreed to pay $2,500 in sales commission and another $1,000 bonus for closing the $1 sale; the bank also will pay $500 of the buyer's closing costs. Throw in back taxes and a water bill, and unloading the house will cost the bank about $10,000.

"It doesn't make sense in some neighborhoods to keep paying costs and costs," Colpaert said. "It can make more financial sense to give it away."
 
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Being from detroit originally, I can say this story is completely true. I moved out to vegas in mid 2006, and im glad i did.. Detroit is falling apart, even before all this it was still a shit hole, but now its just terrible... Detroit is the most ghetto place ive ever seen in my life, and I have been to a lot of cities, a lot....All my friends from back there are all 23-25 yrs old like me, still living with their parents, no jobs no nothing....Its only gonna get worse, Jennifer Granholm completely destroyed the economy of the state of Michigan, its really a sad story....As for foreclosures, before I moved out here to vegas, I used to do evictions and foreclosures and repos back in michigan, I really feel for my home town, cuz its really falling part, within the next 10-20 yrs I wouldnt be suprised if Detroit jus became a subarb of chicago or something...
 

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I drove through detroit on my to windsor in april and we were just north of city but man, it felt like i was in a war zone. Every house looked abandoned nothin but homeless, homeless looking or teenage thugs walking around. I was amazed ive driven through some south parts of chicago that are supposed to be rough but those looked like country clubs compared to detroit and ive been hearing that wasnt even a bad area
 
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I drove through detroit on my to windsor in april and we were just north of city but man, it felt like i was in a war zone. Every house looked abandoned nothin but homeless, homeless looking or teenage thugs walking around. I was amazed ive driven through some south parts of chicago that are supposed to be rough but those looked like country clubs compared to detroit and ive been hearing that wasnt even a bad area


Yeah man, i lived in detroit until like 2 yrs ago my whole life, its really horrible...Yeah if u were on ur way to windsor, i know what part u were around, and ur right that wasnt even the bad part....Try going around I94 and conner exit, then youll see what the D is really made of haha
 

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Yeah man, i lived in detroit until like 2 yrs ago my whole life, its really horrible...Yeah if u were on ur way to windsor, i know what part u were around, and ur right that wasnt even the bad part....Try going around I94 and conner exit, then youll see what the D is really made of haha






Amen the eastside is a total lost at this point.


Some of you vets. Do you remember Fidel? How Fidel didn't believe me when I posted that I have been shot at 3 times while in Detroit. Wonder where Fidel is at today and what he would say to this thread. The truth hurts. All this in this thread has been the truth.



I am sure many of you thought I would be all over this thread. But what else can I say. This City is toast. City workers are useless tokens. The Mayor is a thug and will be in jail. The City Council is under FBI investigation. What else can I say. All the whites left and took our money and family structure with us. Its a shame the city is done for.
 

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