I don’t want Trump to succeed. I want him to fail spectacularly.

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Liberal and conservative are essentially outdated political definitions. Right now it's the smug ruling class elite vs the rest of us. Not just here, in Europe too. Merkel is the so-called 'conservative' in Germany (we'll call her a typical Bush/Romney/McCain Republican) but probably the most hated 'establishment' pro-EU politician in that country. As a result, her so-called 'conservative' party is being outflanked by a new rising Eurosceptic political party. In Britain, it's Brexit. In America, it's Trumpism (for now). If Trump doesn't deliver "draining the swamp", others will come along and fill the vacuum. To Trump's credit, as Matthews points out, he recognized a political void ignored by both parties and rode that train straight into the White House.

I agree with you Joe- that's the need for the independent movement and the end of our two party system. That would be the real change needed.
 

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Oh ok, I get what you are saying now.

I wonder how much of that global uprising has to do with the internet. Really levels the playing field. This isn't the 1st time in American history that the public has been disenchanted and fed up with politicians.

In the past people had to suck it up and just vote for what they perceived as the "lesser of two evils", now it is easier for someone like Trump to gain traction (atleast it was this time around, obviously possible the parties "tighten things up" going forward)

If Trump does pull this off and is atleast decent that might be it for the politicians.

The Rock even said he might run in 2020, he's probably thinking if Trump can do it then so can I.
 

Rx Normal
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Oh ok, I get what you are saying now.

I wonder how much of that global uprising has to do with the internet. Really levels the playing field. This isn't the 1st time in American history that the public has been disenchanted and fed up with politicians.

In the past people had to suck it up and just vote for what they perceived as the "lesser of two evils", now it is easier for someone like Trump to gain traction (atleast it was this time around, obviously possible the parties "tighten things up" going forward)

If Trump does pull this off and is atleast decent that might be it for the politicians.

The Rock even said he might run in 2020, he's probably thinking if Trump can do it then so can I.

If people keep looking for political saviors, they are going to become more disappointed, angry and frustrated. Intuitively, I think people understand government no longer works. They see the scandals and headlines - self-serving politicians in some far distant capital getting rich at their expense, while they fall further behind. That's why we're seeing populist movements like Trump. Michael Moore (of all people) articulated it perfectly before the election. The anger, fear and collective sense of helplessness are very real.

But what Moore and many on the left simply fail to acknowledge is, in 2016, the world simply moves too fast for the central planners to react effectively. So they will keep searching for their next Mussolini promising to make the trains on time again but it's a lost cause. Modern technology and communication are simply outpacing and outperforming traditional government institutions.

The sooner people understand this...the sooner we can effectively persuade the traditional 'activists' who still cling to the naive fallacy that they must right every wrong, to channel their passion and energy toward more effective mediums, the better off everyone will be.

Brexit, Europeans rising up against the EU, rage against the establishment in every Western nation (Trumpism)....decentralization is the future. Eventually.

I dunno, maybe a guy like Peter Thiel is the messenger we need to drive home this new reality, but people really need to rethink the entire political system.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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well, we might just have to give it some time and see if decorum returns

kinda hard to turn off the hatred overnight

it's a process to clean up a polluted body of water, and that's what this forum had become, and I'm not blaming any one poster

I myself stopped trying, because the "nuances" of truthful conversation were simply lost at the bottom of the avalanche of bullshit
 

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:pointer:mad:):):):)@):mad::missingte

1T2Hrb5.gif
 

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If people keep looking for political saviors, they are going to become more disappointed, angry and frustrated. Intuitively, I think people understand government no longer works. They see the scandals and headlines - self-serving politicians in some far distant capital getting rich at their expense, while they fall further behind. That's why we're seeing populist movements like Trump. Michael Moore (of all people) articulated it perfectly before the election. The anger, fear and collective sense of helplessness are very real.

But what Moore and many on the left simply fail to acknowledge is, in 2016, the world simply moves too fast for the central planners to react effectively. So they will keep searching for their next Mussolini promising to make the trains on time again but it's a lost cause. Modern technology and communication are simply outpacing and outperforming traditional government institutions.

The sooner people understand this...the sooner we can effectively persuade the traditional 'activists' who still cling to the naive fallacy that they must right every wrong, to channel their passion and energy toward more effective mediums, the better off everyone will be.

Brexit, Europeans rising up against the EU, rage against the establishment in every Western nation (Trumpism)....decentralization is the future. Eventually.

I dunno, maybe a guy like Peter Thiel is the messenger we need to drive home this new reality, but people really need to rethink the entire political system.

Tough to say really. My guess is it will be awhile before decentralization can make any legitimate headway.

Current system will stay propped up for a bit, way too many with way too much to lose.

There isn't even much of a market for that right now, so it will probably have to come through necessity and other avenues failing first.

But that is all just a guess.
 

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What cracks me up is the way the Liberal press is trying to say that this country is now divided. Like that was not in existence prior to the elelction....really. When liberals are not in control they do not now how to act or what to say. They are all about control and if they are not in control they blame everyone but themselves. If this country is divided it is all on them. It is about time that non-liberals have a chance to do their thing.
America is really the United States of America. We now have a chance to become re-united and states like Ohio, Florida, etc are already making that move. In a year or two it will be "Hillary who?".
 

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Vitterd wasn't interested in intelligent discourse. I'm not sure he was capable of it.

+1 Mantis you need to deal with it.
Talked to a police seargent in 7/11 yesterday. He seemed pissed. Asked how the shift was going and he shook his head. He said there was a protest at city hall. I asked if it was a Soros type thing and he said yes. Told him that I hated all the hatred for Police and he agreed there was a ton of that. Are these problems because of Trump? This crap was going on way before he got elected. Who was Soros contributing to ? This divide is not going to stop until people realize that there right to things like protests does not put them above the law.
 
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+1 Mantis you need to deal with it.
Talked to a police seargent in 7/11 yesterday. He seemed pissed. Asked how the shift was going and he shook his head. He said there was a protest at city hall. I asked if it was a Soros type thing and he said yes. Told him that I hated all the hatred for Police and he agreed there was a ton of that. Are these problems because of Trump? This crap was going on way before he got elected. Who was Soros contributing to ? This divide is not going to stop until people realize that there right to things like protests does not put them above the law.

What exactly do I need to "deal with"?
 
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Liberal and conservative are essentially outdated political definitions. Right now it's the smug ruling class elite vs the rest of us. Not just here, in Europe too. Merkel is the so-called 'conservative' in Germany (we'll call her a typical Bush/Romney/McCain Republican) but probably the most hated 'establishment' pro-EU politician in that country. As a result, her so-called 'conservative' party is being outflanked by a new rising Eurosceptic political party. In Britain, it's Brexit. In America, it's Trumpism (for now). If Trump doesn't deliver "draining the swamp", others will come along and fill the vacuum. To Trump's credit, as Matthews points out, he recognized a political void ignored by both parties and rode that train straight into the White House.

This is a good post. I agree with you. That's part of the reason I don't understand why my dislike of Trump leads you and others to believe I'm a liberal. I actually thought this was one of the better descriptions of Trump's platform I've seen...

Trump’s own philosophy, if he can be said to hold one, most closely mirrors that of the European populist far-right: Western civilization can only be protected by erecting walls and closing borders, and those within the walls and borders can be protected by a large, intrusive government providing vast social services. Trump rarely speaks of liberty or freedom, and never speaks about the Constitution unless prodded to do so by others.

Unfortunately (for me), this type of policy isn't anything close to what I'd like to see.
 

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Tough to say really. My guess is it will be awhile before decentralization can make any legitimate headway.

Current system will stay propped up for a bit, way too many with way too much to lose.

There isn't even much of a market for that right now, so it will probably have to come through necessity and other avenues failing first.

But that is all just a guess.

So what you're saying is, everyone is rebelling against a lethargic, bloated system (both left and right agree government isn't serving the people anymore) but few are ready and willing to give it up? Why?

Especially millennials...you would think the generation most familiar with modern technology and its unlimited potential would be the first to recognize centralized government as the incapable, antiquated system it is. These days millennials are always the first to piss and moan when the slow wheels bureaucracy can't keep up to their social activism on their social media feeds.

Even more troubling - virtually all these young multi-billionaires who built their empires in the modern "Wild West" known as the Internet, are leftists advocating for more government power and centralized control.

There's a serious disconnect between millennial political expectations and reality. We need someone to bridge the gap.
 

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This is a good post. I agree with you. That's part of the reason I don't understand why my dislike of Trump leads you and others to believe I'm a liberal. I actually thought this was one of the better descriptions of Trump's platform I've seen...

Trump’s own philosophy, if he can be said to hold one, most closely mirrors that of the European populist far-right: Western civilization can only be protected by erecting walls and closing borders, and those within the walls and borders can be protected by a large, intrusive government providing vast social services. Trump rarely speaks of liberty or freedom, and never speaks about the Constitution unless prodded to do so by others.

Unfortunately (for me), this type of policy isn't anything close to what I'd like to see.

The people pushing for open borders (Soros and company) are global communists who want everyone to live by the same rules - THEIR RULES. They want to impose their Utopia on everyone with no place for escape. Obama fears that 'nationalism' and 'tribalism' are taking root in the US and parts of Europe. FANTASTIC! - it's the only logical response to his brand of arrogant Globalist insanity.
 

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Absolutely. My comment was in reference to all the people that said get rid of Vit would create a better poly forum with better discussion.

It's early. But I'd rather hit back and forth on issues than listen to two posters fight all day to convince the forum why the other guy is a smaller bettor and a bigger asshole.
 

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+1 Mantis you need to deal with it.
Talked to a police seargent in 7/11 yesterday. He seemed pissed. Asked how the shift was going and he shook his head. He said there was a protest at city hall. I asked if it was a Soros type thing and he said yes. Told him that I hated all the hatred for Police and he agreed there was a ton of that. Are these problems because of Trump? This crap was going on way before he got elected. Who was Soros contributing to ? This divide is not going to stop until people realize that there right to things like protests does not put them above the law.

C'mon finish the story! Get to the part where he asked you "Hey, can you get your buddy Scott to fly out here? These protestors need some scolding!"
 

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It's early. But I'd rather hit back and forth on issues than listen to two posters fight all day to convince the forum why the other guy is a smaller bettor and a bigger asshole.

How about being accused of incest so the other party can think they won? Mantis if you liked those intelligent conversations pm the guy and I am sure he will be more than willing to have one sided conversations with you.
 

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