Herbert

[REDEYE]

It's harder to criticize Burrow given that he's actually accomplished something in his short career, and is objectively better than Herbert and Allen at this point

You called him a regular season QB, even though he's 5-2 straight up in playoff games despite being an underdog in 5 of those 7 games. The 2 losses by a combined 6 points too.

So it's obviously much harder to call Burrow a choker, given he has overachieved based on expectations. Both this year and last year

I called Burrow a regular season QB as a jab.. Since you judge Rodgers as a regular season QB , kinda thought it was fair, since Burrow hasn't won anything yet.
When the Packers lose a playoff game , you go go straight at Rodgers, completely ignoring the circumstances surrounding a game.

 

[Avocado33]

I called Burrow a regular season QB as a jab.. Since you judge Rodgers as a regular season QB , kinda thought it was fair, since Burrow hasn't won anything yet.
When the Packers lose a playoff game , you go go straight at Rodgers, completely ignoring the circumstances surrounding a game.

I figured as much

But it is fair to say Rodgers has been disappointing given the circumstances

1 seed, scoring only 10 points, losing at home. More goes into losing than QB play obviously, but hard to argue against Rodgers being individually disappointing given expectations

Obviously Burrow has not had those expectations….yet

 

[REDEYE]

I figured as much

But it is fair to say Rodgers has been disappointing given the circumstances

1 seed, scoring only 10 points, losing at home. More goes into losing than QB play obviously, but hard to argue against Rodgers being individually disappointing given expectations

Obviously Burrow has not had those expectations….yet

I look at the reasons why teams win or lose more than you do. Very easy to blame an offense for only putting up 10 pts at home,, The game plan changed big time with blizzard freezing conditions. More of ball control, ball possession type of game under those conditions.
Special teams pretty much forgot the memo. You just can't give up the field position special teams did that night , let alone having a punt blocked in the end zone while holding a 7 pt lead.

 

[Serbone]

Herbert is having shoulder surgery, Allen has just determined that it is best not to have elbow surgery. Oh.

Again, if a QB has a shoulder-elbow-wrist problem they simply cannot get 100% on the ball they throw. No way.
With an ankle-knee the QB can adjust and throw harder when necessary to compensate, and still be accurate, so long as he is not moving all over the place in the pocket.

Herbert is as good as Burrow, right now, and so is Allen. Both were hurt badly enough to be much less effective than their previous form.

Allen is foolish to run and even try to run over defenders, Mahomes risks injury by scrambling and making plays.

So I would put Allen-Burrow-Herbert-Mahomes in the top 4 elite, to debate which is better is OK but they are all at the top, the issue with two of them is injury risk, IMO Herbert got hurt but was not being a fool, it just happened, twice, this yr. It can be said that Allen and Mahomes are less desirable because they often knowingly put themselves in jeopardy,

If you do not understand that Allen & Herbert played with much less than 100% arm strength and were not themselves at all compared to previous, you are being dishonest.

To Mahomes credit, with a bad ankle he was able to adjust to being a pocket passer vs Cincy and shred them for >300 yards.

 

[Avocado33]

Herbert is as good as Burrow, right now, and so is Allen.

Based on what?

Burrow is objectively a more accurate thrower than both of them. Beyond the stats, and even when all three are healthy, Burrow is miles ahead of Allen in terms of accuracy. The gap is smaller between him and Herbert, but it is still obvious Burrow is more accurate. It's also pretty obvious to anyone who has watched a good sample size of all three that Burrow is a much better decision-maker and can go through his progressions better. He gets the ball out faster than both of them BY FAR. On top of that he has been by far the most successful of the three given the short time he's been in the league.

You can't give credit to guys like Allen and Herbert because of potential. You have to actually accomplish shit

That's why Mahomes and Burrow are the top two QB's in the league, for now

 

[Serbone]

Based on what?***

Burrow is objectively a more accurate thrower than both of them. Beyond the stats, and even when all three are healthy, Burrow is miles ahead of Allen in terms of accuracy. The gap is smaller between him and Herbert, but it is still obvious Burrow is more accurate. It's also pretty obvious to anyone who has watched a good sample size of all three that Burrow is a much better decision-maker and can go through his progressions better. He gets the ball out faster than both of them BY FAR. On top of that he has been by far the most successful of the three given the short time he's been in the league.

You can't give credit to guys like Allen and Herbert because of potential. You have to actually accomplish shit

That's why Mahomes and Burrow are the top two QB's in the league, for now

***Lets look at this, shall we?

QBR regular season, 2021, when all were healthy:

• # 3 Herbert,70.0
• # 6 Allen, 66.3
• #12, Burrow, 60.3

QBR 2022 yr::

• #2 Allen, 71.4, damaged elbow 2nd half of season
• # 10, Burrow 58.8
• # 11, Herbert, 58.6 broken ribs first part of season, bad shoulder late part of season

And the eye test, clearly Allen and Herbert are not throwing with the zip and accuracy as when they were healthy, and they both are as accurate, as these figures indicate. I know that QBR is not everything, but again, the eye test, when they are healthy they are as good Burrow, overall.

And, while we are at it, Burrow choked when the pressure was on late vs KC, threw two very inaccurate, stupid INTs.

 

[XENO]

A qb no matter how good or great cannot win big games without a decent Dee and offense -

 

[Avocado33]

***Lets look at this, shall we?

QBR regular season, 2021, when all were healthy:

• # 3 Herbert,70.0
• # 6 Allen, 66.3
• #12, Burrow, 60.3

QBR 2022 yr::

• #2 Allen, 71.4, damaged elbow 2nd half of season
• # 10, Burrow 58.8
• # 11, Herbert, 58.6 broken ribs first part of season, bad shoulder late part of season

And the eye test, clearly Allen and Herbert are not throwing with the zip and accuracy as when they were healthy, and they both are as accurate, as these figures indicate. I know that QBR is not everything, but again, the eye test, when they are healthy they are as good Burrow, overall.

And, while we are at it, Burrow choked when the pressure was on late vs KC, threw two very inaccurate, stupid INTs.

"when all were healthy", if you rely on QBR to dictate who the better QB is, then I don't know what to tell you lol. Running and sack rate are so laughably overvalued in those stats, of course Burrow will not rank as high in it.

I think injuries played more of a role for Herbert, but he was still underwhelming all year long

Burrow didn't choke against the Chiefs lol you must really think Mahomes and Allen are all-time chokers if you think that game was a choke. Since you're a QBR fan, you must love that Mahomes had a QBR of 1 in second half/OT against Bengals last year. Allen got his ass handed to him at home in the cold against Burrow. Burrow threw a bad pick early, but the second one was just a phenomenal defensive play and served as an arm punt. It was a good throw. I guess you should just ignore the two clutch, perfect throws to Higgins and Chase. And that early one to Hurst that he dropped.

The Burrow hate is real

 

[Avocado33]

A qb no matter how good or great cannot win big games without a decent Dee and offense -

It's just funny hearing how good the Chargers and Bills were before the season, how loaded their rosters are, then when they suck late it's never on the QB's. Suddenly the team sucks.

It will inevitably happen again this year. Bills will have shorter odds than the Bengals at minimum. Yet we are going to see Mahomes vs. Burrow for third time in a row,

 

[Avocado33]

Bills will be like 6-1 or 7-1 to win the title or something laughable like that

I think they struggle to win the division this year

 

[Avocado33]

And the eye test, clearly Allen and Herbert are not throwing with the zip and accuracy as when they were healthy, and they both are as accurate, as these figures indicate. I know that QBR is not everything, but again, the eye test, when they are healthy they are as good Burrow, overall.

If you think Allen and Herbert are as good as Burrow with the eye test, then you need to go see an eye doctor

They have natural talent, they have flashes, but they have BOTH been far inconsistent in their careers

It's funny you mention arm strength. Herbert and Allen both missed receivers on deep routes and trying to throw impossible throws in their losses. The reality is they ALWAYS have struggled to take what the defense gives them.

That's contrary to Burrow, who doesn't try to unnecessarily make impossible throws. And that's with worse offensive line play. Even when Bengals offensive line was "healthy", they were still not a good unit and objectively worse than Bills and Chargers this year

 

[REDEYE]

"when all were healthy", if you rely on QBR to dictate who the better QB is, then I don't know what to tell you lol. Running and sack rate are so laughably overvalued in those stats, of course Burrow will not rank as high in it.

I think injuries played more of a role for Herbert, but he was still underwhelming all year long

Burrow didn't choke against the Chiefs lol you must really think Mahomes and Allen are all-time chokers if you think that game was a choke. Since you're a QBR fan, you must love that Mahomes had a QBR of 1 in second half/OT against Bengals last year. Allen got his ass handed to him at home in the cold against Burrow. Burrow threw a bad pick early, but the second one was just a phenomenal defensive play and served as an arm punt. It was a good throw. I guess you should just ignore the two clutch, perfect throws to Higgins and Chase. And that early one to Hurst that he dropped.

The Burrow hate is real

Do we get to count year one in all of this when Burrow was out for a good part of the season ? Or is that a pass ?

And I'm not a Burrow hater either..

I don't think you can go wrong with Mahomes, Allen ,Burrow , or Herbert.. But I'd take Herbert over the other three if It was up to me..

 

[REDEYE]

If you think Allen and Herbert are as good as Burrow with the eye test, then you need to go see an eye doctor

They have natural talent, they have flashes, but they have BOTH been far inconsistent in their careers

It's funny you mention arm strength. Herbert and Allen both missed receivers on deep routes and trying to throw impossible throws in their losses. The reality is they ALWAYS have struggled to take what the defense gives them.

That's contrary to Burrow, who doesn't try to unnecessarily make impossible throws. And that's with worse offensive line play. Even when Bengals offensive line was "healthy", they were still not a good unit and objectively worse than Bills and Chargers this year

I don't think Burrow can make the same throws as Allen or Herbert.. Most analyst will say the same thing

 

[Avocado33]

Do we get to count year one in all of this when Burrow was out for a good part of the season ? Or is that a pass ?

And I'm not a Burrow hater either..

I don't think you can go wrong with Mahomes, Allen ,Burrow , or Herbert.. But I'd take Herbert over the other three if It was up to me..

Burrow wasn't good his first year. He was a mid-tier QB at best

I'll call out Burrow when he sucks. I always have. But reality is he just hasn't sucked very much.

Obviously there is subjective arguing, but I'd love to see someone try to explain why the Bengals were like 7th in the preseason AFC odds this past year, and why the Bills are going to have shorter odds than them again this year.....it's just laughable

 

[Avocado33]

I don't think Burrow can make the same throws as Allen or Herbert.. Most analyst will say the same thing

I think most analysts would say that Burrow has the weakest arm of the three

But all analysts would say that Burrow is a more accurate thrower than Allen or Herbert. It's at least close with Herbert.....it's not close with Allen

 

[REDEYE]

Burrow wasn't good his first year. He was a mid-tier QB at best

I'll call out Burrow when he sucks. I always have. But reality is he just hasn't sucked very much.

Obviously there is subjective arguing, but I'd love to see someone try to explain why the Bengals were like 7th in the preseason AFC odds this past year, and why the Bills are going to have shorter odds than them again this year.....it's just laughable

the team itself will dictate the odds. Not just the QB... But in that case , I would agree with you. Bengals odds for AFC were alot better value

 

[Avocado33]

the team itself will dictate the odds. Not just the QB... But in that case , I would agree with you. Bengals odds for AFC were alot better value

The odds were made under the notion that Bills and Chargers were "loaded" teams though. And that's all the media talked about all year long. I sorta understood the Chargers injury issues.

I just don't get how someone can watch that Divisional Round game and give the Bills +600 to +700 SB odds going into this season. It was such an all-around ass kicking at home, with a team that theoretically was less suited to deal with tough weather conditions. And not like anything is going to change much going into this year.

The game shouldn't have been in Buffalo anyway most likely, so I guess it was karma

 

[Avocado33]

I don't think you can go wrong with Mahomes, Allen ,Burrow , or Herbert.. But I'd take Herbert over the other three if It was up to me..

I think less is known about Herbert of the four. I think his decision-making is questionable, but I think he can still improve a lot

I think Allen has reached close to his ceiling, and I genuinely would not love having him on the Bengals. His lack of accuracy and decision-making would drive me nuts, and a lot more pressure would be on him with Bengals offensive line.

 

[flashmo]

Herbert's surgery was on his left shoulder

 

[XENO]

Burrow is one of the best in the game today you can’t fault Him in that kc game cmon only lost by 3 and imho they wanted kc to win that game some really bad calls last quarter against them -Allen. is great qb as well there Dee looked terrible in that snowy game cinny looked looked more at home there then buff.