yes I am a fan
and you are a rafa fan-- you got all excited in the other thread when he won, remember?.
and I did answer the question .You don't like /agree with the answer.Taking the whole into account, he's the GOAT. I agree with Sampras, Borg, McEnroe. And yeah, yesterday sealed it for me.
you are correct, Rafa did win majors on mutliple surfaces-- i phrased that poorly. It should read-- Rafa post elite years is becoming more of a one-surface player. He hasnt gotten past Wimbledon qtrs in 4 years. For me , he's only a real threat at RG. He DOES look in form tho, that win over Dimi was fantastic. ................
OK. Fair enough.
Answer the question though, not taking this particular rivalry into account.
Take a non-team sport, and consider the heads-up matches between 2 people. Can one of them be considered the greatest of all time, if they have
a substantial losing record against the other player?
If player A was considered the greatest of all time, and B had a much better record heads-up, then B could say "I am better than the greatest player of all time"
I say, to be considered the greatest ever, you have to be heads-up better than everyone you played in your own era, assuming that both players peaked
at about the same time. That's the only argument I see that one could make, that Roger was past his peak when he lost many of his matches to Rafa.
He's had some serious injuries.
2010: once again a knee injury, this time against Andy Murray at the Australian Open in the quarter-finals. A match played at a high intensity but that sees Rafa give up down 6-4 7-5 3-0. Nadal will recover very great in one of the most important seasons for him.
2011: adductor problem during Australian Open against Ferrer. Rafa remains on court until tue end of the match and during a medical time out is in tears.
2012: it's the biggest injury Rafa ever had in his career. He starts to have knee issues already during Roland Garros that he will win. But in Wimbledon the five-sets loss to Lukas Rosol is his last match of the season.
2014: the back injury comes in the worst moment, during the Australian Open final. 'It hurt me more losing this final instead of the 2012's one against Djokovic', Nadal said after the match.
2014: The wrist was one of the Fewer parts of Rafa's body that were not affected, but it ended in 2014 when the Spaniard player gets injured during a practice session and withdraws from Toronto, Cincinnati and US Open. He will return to compete in Beijing.
2016: we come to our days and the issue is still the wrist, that starts to bother him after Australian Open. He has treatments until April, then withdraws from Roland Garros and Wimbledon. Comes back at the Olympics, loses to Pouille at the US Open and ends the season
I didn't throw it out, I simply pointed it out that they've played a disproportionate number of matches on clay and that they've been even on all other surfaces. I'd also mention that your Bird/Lebron analogy is absurd.
It's a fact that 43% of their matches have been played on Rafa's best surface/Roger's worst surface. That's worth noting when people live on the 23-12 head to head record.
Borg for me was especially interesting cuz he got really YUGE when I was super young so I didn't know much about the World bcuz School, for me, was just a place to hang out with other kids I liked and a place to Disrupt as much as possible.
I paid ZERO attention to anything any of the teachers were talking about in fact having to sit in a room while they talked annoyed me. "mandatory"? The whole concept just pissed me off so I made a concerted effort to NOT learn anything.
And I succeeded.
So when Bjorn Borg repeated at The French ('74, '75) then finally won Wimbledon in '76 and the world stated freaking out over him that was the first time I ever found out Swedish People even existed.
Other Kids would have learned that in school. I would have too had I not spent most of my time there ignoring the teaching and in Detention.
What I DID pay attention to was Music. Borg had long hair and looked like a Rock Star so I too like Bjorn Borg alot and even started playing Tennis cuz of Borg. Which for a misfit out of control Heavy Metal Kid to start playing TENNIS was like on par with Otep Shamaya converting to Jehovah Witness.
Very Well Done.
I am back to being able to believe that FED is the GOAT.
As long as Zit doesn't ask any more questions, I should be OK from here. Maybe I should put him on "ignore"
I take from what you said that we need to look at a Whole Career and if within that there is such a thing as a possible GOAT who did get dominated by another player during that career....
......where did that Rivalry wind up?
Right now it wound up with what we just were lucky enough to Witness.
tl;dr: FED TOOK HIM IN THE END and overcame him from down 1-3 games in a 5th set by taking the last 5 games.
I hope RAFA is in his very Topmost Best Health at the French at RG cuz I am anxious to see what HUNGER he brings to that table.
thankfully we are all entitled to our opinion. You seem to have one specific criteria that MUST be met or else you are not prepared to name a GOAT. Sounds like your main two criteria are; have the most GS titles and a +ve winning % vs all your arch rivals? correct? that's cool
curious, if no one got to Sampras' total of 14, would you proclaim Pete the GOAT? Personally, I would not. He was an average clay courter, actually he sucked on clay-- how can the GOAT not be accomplished on all surfaces?
i'll asnwer your question;
yes. Why? i'm looking at the whole picture. My criteria is different. ALL accomplishments including weeks at #1, most victories over top 10 opponents, winning % vs top 10 opponents, record at GS's, CONSISTENCY at GS (qtr finals/semi/finals, ,h2h., gs titles.. Obviously, in tennis, right or wrong GS titles weighs huge
UNLIKE Borg/Sampras I was uneasy calling him the GOAT before his AO open win. In my gut, didnt sit right.......as it turned out, for his legacy, imo, it was BETTER that he faced Nadal in the final. He had to beat his arch rival and he did so when nearly everyone was quitting on him down a break in the 5th.
Nadal still has time to add to his GS titles...I think Fed is done
If it matters, Agassi says Nadal is GOAT.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/05/federer-nadal-agassi-best-ever
Oh I was totally DONE with FED down that Break in the 5th.
Only a handful of people on this Earth could not have felt the same way vs. RAFA with RAFA managing to get up 3-1 in that 5th.
Sports Media gets ahold of RunMaker's, phdinsports and Greenback's Commentary from the Start of that 5th Set and they might Run This cuz its funny as hell:
Octogenarian Federer
Oh I was totally DONE with FED down that Break in the 5th.
Only a handful of people on this Earth could not have felt the same way vs. RAFA with RAFA managing to get up 3-1 in that 5th.
Sports Media gets ahold of RunMaker's, phdinsports and Greenback's Commentary from the Start of that 5th Set and they might Run This cuz its funny as hell:
Octogenarian Federer
you're not the only one
....at that point, how could any sane person like his chances given their history and at Fed's advanced age? ........ runmaker was ready to go postal. His body language just wreaked of confidence, told us he was still in a good frame of mind-- he just kept pounding balls back, and the backhand was silly in the 5th. He was playing the ball not the player- he was free
andre just can't make up his mind. This is as of Jan 2017............
http://www.livemint.com/Sports/0rfI...etter-than-Pete-Sampras-Yes-says-Andre-A.html
Mumbai: Former world No. 1 tennis player and eight-time Grand Slam champion Andre Agassi said Roger Federer was the greatest player of all time because of his skill over all surfaces. Agassi, who played against Federer towards the end of his career (and the beginning of Federer’s), is among the few players to have battled both the Swiss and Pete Sampras, the other frequent contender in the debate, on a tennis court.
[FONT="]Who is better: Pete Sampras or Roger Federer?[/FONT]
[FONT="]I woke up one day from a dream that I was Pete and went back to sleep. Sorry, I can’t help it (about the jibe). There is (for players) too much pride in your strengths and limitations. Mine were different from Pete’s. I look at Federer and he makes things look so easy that it pisses me off. Is Federer better than Pete? Yes. He could beat people from anywhere, from the back of the court. He has a plan A, B, C and he never got to C; he barely gets to B.[/FONT]
you're not the only one
His body language just wreaked of confidence, told us he was still in a good frame of mind-- he just kept pounding balls back, and the backhand was silly in the 5th. He was playing the ball not the player- he was free
I was most impressed by how FED managed to not allow his challenges due to Failure with The Forehand earlier in the match take him out of it, mentally. I didn't think he'd overcome that. It really was a stunning display of Refusing to Give Up, maintaining Belief in one's self and Demanding of one's self that they not permit themselves to be beaten there.
In a place they were 0-3 (AUS OPEN) vs. the Opponent who has given them the most grief OnCourt during their career.
RunMaker is Fine. I just saw him this morning going down Nicholl on his Bicycle, strapped to his back like a Jet Pack: a Large Jar of Pickled Eggs
........................dagone...............I don't think anybody on the planet thought Federer could come back from down 3-1 in the 5th, except Federer. And maybe he had some doubts.
The last 5 games of the match were 5 of the best games he's ever played. And what a time to do it.
Federer and Nadal are like Jack and Tiger.. Fed and Jack are the greatest , while Nadal and Tiger are 2nd best, but both are the best athletes their sports have ever seen.
The last 5 games of the match were 5 of the best games he's ever played. And what a time to do it.
Federer and Nadal are like Jack and Tiger.. Fed and Jack are the greatest , while Nadal and Tiger are 2nd best, but both are the best athletes their sports have ever seen.
Here I'll post it again. Federer 202 wins vs top ten opponents Nadal 140. And here's where it's not even close Federer 302 weeks at number 1 Nadal 141 weeks at number 1. Federer has the most consecutive weeks at number 1 Nadal at number 2. Actually Nadal's career weeks at number 2, 248 will never be broken!
