Goat
I still say you can't say Roger is the greatest, when Nadal has owned him his whole career.
In a heads up sport, how can you be the greatest player ever, when you weren't even the greatest heads-up against
all your peers, in your prime?
Yeah, Roger beat Nadal today (barely), but he's got a long way to do to catch up for the epic beatings he's taken at
the hands of Nadal.
In a heads up sport, how can you be the greatest player ever, when you weren't even the greatest heads-up against
all your peers, in your prime?
Yeah, Roger beat Nadal today (barely), but he's got a long way to do to catch up for the epic beatings he's taken at
the hands of Nadal.
That would almost be like saying the giants are a better team then the pats because they always beat them h2h.
Fed is the best when you look at the big picture
'barely'? lol....what did you expect ? a 35 yr old to knock of Rafa in straights?
a more disturbing thought is HOW did Rafa lose to a 35 yr old that he supposedly 'owns'? lol
if say50% of their matches were on grass rather than clay, how would their h2h have looked like? Also, Rafa is 5 yrs younger , started to maul Fed as age took its toll--just as Nole is owning Rafa as age affects the latter
and lastly at 30 yrs of age and prime long gone, does Rafa have another slam in him? He wont likely be the favorite at Roland Garros. No chance at Wimbledon....i think he has one more in him. Let's hope so.
a more disturbing thought is HOW did Rafa lose to a 35 yr old that he supposedly 'owns'? lol
if say50% of their matches were on grass rather than clay, how would their h2h have looked like? Also, Rafa is 5 yrs younger , started to maul Fed as age took its toll--just as Nole is owning Rafa as age affects the latter
and lastly at 30 yrs of age and prime long gone, does Rafa have another slam in him? He wont likely be the favorite at Roland Garros. No chance at Wimbledon....i think he has one more in him. Let's hope so.
I think Nole has enough time to possibly surpass Sampras/Rafa. He's at 12. He's 29. Clock is ticking. History shows us few players can win a Slam in their 30's (Connors, Sampras, Fed, Agassi) . Oldest was 35, a more late realistic number is Andre at 32. Nole MUST win one this year.
with that said, this generation is better than the previous-- so maybe they win multiple times in their 30's?
also Nole can win on HC, clay , grass-has more options. Rafa has no chance at Wimbledon. With Rafa playing well, a RG final of Nole Vs Rafa would be a hell of a match!!
with that said, this generation is better than the previous-- so maybe they win multiple times in their 30's?
also Nole can win on HC, clay , grass-has more options. Rafa has no chance at Wimbledon. With Rafa playing well, a RG final of Nole Vs Rafa would be a hell of a match!!
these quotes are BEFORE title #18.....
Borg; 'at this point, Federer is the greatest player of the game'
Sampras; “You look at the numbers of what he’s been able to do, you have to say he’s the greatest we’ve seen. The statistics of doing all-around court play - he can do a lot of different things, he can come in, can stay back, and he can do everything.”
Sampras last sentence was REALLY evident at Melbourne this year. His taking the ball so early on serve. Call it self-preservation, lol. That was huge Vs Nadal today
Borg; 'at this point, Federer is the greatest player of the game'
Sampras; “You look at the numbers of what he’s been able to do, you have to say he’s the greatest we’ve seen. The statistics of doing all-around court play - he can do a lot of different things, he can come in, can stay back, and he can do everything.”
Sampras last sentence was REALLY evident at Melbourne this year. His taking the ball so early on serve. Call it self-preservation, lol. That was huge Vs Nadal today
John McEnroe;
"Roger Federer has solidified himself as the greatest of all time"
here's Johnny having a little fun post-Wawrinka win;
The tennis Messiah has returned, and he has got a message for us', McEnroe said. 'Once again you buried me too soon and once again I resurrected. I may not walk on water like I used to, but I still can put a miracle or two, multiply the winners, and turn water into Gatorade.'
'The medical time out between the fourth and fifth set brought back the old doubts. But seemingly unconcerned by pain, he allayed our fears and we all rose to acclaim our hero. And then we are now in the 35 A. R. Yeah, after Roger! One step away from fulfilling the prophecy of Peter the apostle Sampras, the eighteenth Slam you will win, and alone you will stand in glory'
@)
"Roger Federer has solidified himself as the greatest of all time"
here's Johnny having a little fun post-Wawrinka win;
The tennis Messiah has returned, and he has got a message for us', McEnroe said. 'Once again you buried me too soon and once again I resurrected. I may not walk on water like I used to, but I still can put a miracle or two, multiply the winners, and turn water into Gatorade.'
'The medical time out between the fourth and fifth set brought back the old doubts. But seemingly unconcerned by pain, he allayed our fears and we all rose to acclaim our hero. And then we are now in the 35 A. R. Yeah, after Roger! One step away from fulfilling the prophecy of Peter the apostle Sampras, the eighteenth Slam you will win, and alone you will stand in glory'
@)
I excluded team sports, because so many factors are at play.
I'm not the only one to bring up this argument.
From Sports Illustrated: http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=775786&page=4&p=8698083&viewfull=1#post8698083
Nadal stays in that conversation with his 10th major title and more evidence than ever before. As Mary Carillo said during the NBC telecast, "Nadal's going for his 17th win against Federer (against just eight losses). The greatest player of all time can't beat the greatest player of his own time?"
I still think the question is a valid one. Not even considering Rafa and Federer.
Can someone in a non team sport, be considered the greatest of all time, when they have a clear losing record (with more than just
a few matches) against someone in their own era? If I was Rafa, I'd have taken umbrage at people crowning Roger the best ever,
while Rafa kept kicking his ass over and over in majors, on all surfaces.
Granted, this win by Roger changes the conversation a bit. Though, If Rafa would have pulled out that 5th set, do you still keep
crowning Roger the best ever?
The Federer–Nadal rivalry (known by some as Fedal) is between two professional tennis players, Roger Federer of Switzerland and Rafael Nadal of Spain. ... They have played 35 times, most recently in the 2017 Australian Open final, and Nadal leads their thirteen-year-old rivalry with an overall record of 23–12.
Can someone in a non team sport, be considered the greatest of all time, when they have a clear losing record (with more than just
a few matches) against someone in their own era? If I was Rafa, I'd have taken umbrage at people crowning Roger the best ever,
while Rafa kept kicking his ass over and over in majors, on all surfaces.
Granted, this win by Roger changes the conversation a bit. Though, If Rafa would have pulled out that 5th set, do you still keep
crowning Roger the best ever?
The Federer–Nadal rivalry (known by some as Fedal) is between two professional tennis players, Roger Federer of Switzerland and Rafael Nadal of Spain. ... They have played 35 times, most recently in the 2017 Australian Open final, and Nadal leads their thirteen-year-old rivalry with an overall record of 23–12.
Question is absolutely a Valid One.
The greatest player of all time can't beat the greatest player of his own time?"
And for me the question makes a Roadblock. I wish now that I'd never seen the question. My Life was good where I was having arrived at a place where I was sure that FED was The GOAT but then, I read that question.
The Picture of Bjorn Borg messed me up too cuz that was the first Tennis Player I ever knew of who was really really GOOD. Great, in fact and I'd forgotten to consider whether Borg was GOAT, prior to concluding FED was that.
loved Borg. Unlike Rafa , his baseline game could win on ALL surfaces. Multiple victories on RG and Wimbledon
the 18th sealed the deal for me. The fact that he could beat his arch rivalry (who is FIVE YEARS YOUNGER) at age 35 is enough for me. Keep in mind he beat Rafa at his own game-- down a break in the 5th and proceeded to win 5 straight games. I agree with what John McEnroe said
it's gotta be tough for Rafa fans- that was a HUGE blow. IF he held and won? he's at 15 and still has a few RG's to go AND knocked Fed out yet again. But to lose to a 35 yr old Fed? wow
the last two matches these guys have played Fed has won-- at age 33, and 35. What does that say about Rafa? Keep in mind the record is skewed; most were played on clay AND as Fed turned 30, Rafa was in his prime 25ish.
why isn't Sampras, Borg, McEnroe calling rafa the greatest?
You didn't answer the question, but just reiterated that you are a Roger fan-boy.
Your comment about Raja not being able to win an ALL surfaces was ridiculous, he has 5 Grand Slams on non-clay surfaces, AND:
Nadal and Mats Wilander are the only male players to win at least two Grand Slams each on clay, grass, and hardcourts in their careers.
yes I am a fan
and you are a rafa fan-- you got all excited in the other thread when he won, remember?
.
and I did answer the question .You don't like /agree with the answer.Taking the whole into account, he's the GOAT. I agree with Sampras, Borg, McEnroe. And yeah, yesterday sealed it for me.
you are correct, Rafa did win majors on mutliple surfaces-- i phrased that poorly. It should read-- Rafa post elite years is becoming more of a one-surface player. He hasnt gotten past Wimbledon qtrs in 4 years. For me , he's only a real threat at RG. He DOES look in form tho, that win over Dimi was fantastic. ................
and you are a rafa fan-- you got all excited in the other thread when he won, remember?
. and I did answer the question .You don't like /agree with the answer.Taking the whole into account, he's the GOAT. I agree with Sampras, Borg, McEnroe. And yeah, yesterday sealed it for me.
you are correct, Rafa did win majors on mutliple surfaces-- i phrased that poorly. It should read-- Rafa post elite years is becoming more of a one-surface player. He hasnt gotten past Wimbledon qtrs in 4 years. For me , he's only a real threat at RG. He DOES look in form tho, that win over Dimi was fantastic. ................
Why would you throw away Nadal's best surface, and not throw away Federer's? That's like saying let's pit Larry Bird against LeBron, but don't let
Larry shoot long jump shots.
[h=3]Head-to-head results on each court surface[/h]
- Clay courts: Nadal, 13–2
- Hard courts: Nadal, 9–8
- Outdoor: Nadal, 8–3
- Indoor: Federer, 5–1
- Grass courts: Federer, 2–1
