Hey guys, I believe this is a very interesting thread that concerns to all parts involved in this industry: PLAYERS, BOOKS and SYNDICATES. The very nature of this thread calls for as many opinions and points of view as possible.
And in an effort to mantain a healthy level of OBJECTIVITY, we all should be able to read what different posters have to say. My ulterior motive to post in this thread? Healthy, open and intelligent discussion. Not only is it good for us to know as many details as possible, but I also have the feeling there is a precedent to be set.
Having said this, I'd like quote a player's post. Is he really a player or is he just shilling? Is he attacking the interests of this forum? Is he only trying to pitch in with legitimate info? I don't know. But I would love to find out and I would also love to see all arguments stand, in order to mantain certain level of veracity.
The poster is altice, this is what he posted:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I hate to interrupt the extortion extravaganza BUT I got paid from ewinner today and Saturday. Considering I got paid today and Saturday and am leaving a decent amount(for me) at ewinner, I must be really stupid considering they don't have funds to pay(note the sarcasm). Course, my amount is chumpchange to bonus scammers, but as an FYI, future bonus scams should take place at Rio, not ewinner. Rio has a "proven track record" to pay scammers and have shown they are "standup guys" to scammers and their rules are much nicer to scammers and extorters alike. So, please take off ewinner off the eligible scam books. Now back to our regularly scheduled program of extortion at this station.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good things about the post above: reports from a player getting paid
Bad things about that same post: it clearly has an anti-RX agenda. That'd be the only logical reason for all the insinuations of "extortions" and mentions of a book that has nothing to do with the situation at hand.
Nevertheless, more info is always more knowledge. Adn knowledge is always power.
And in an effort to mantain a healthy level of OBJECTIVITY, we all should be able to read what different posters have to say. My ulterior motive to post in this thread? Healthy, open and intelligent discussion. Not only is it good for us to know as many details as possible, but I also have the feeling there is a precedent to be set.
Having said this, I'd like quote a player's post. Is he really a player or is he just shilling? Is he attacking the interests of this forum? Is he only trying to pitch in with legitimate info? I don't know. But I would love to find out and I would also love to see all arguments stand, in order to mantain certain level of veracity.
The poster is altice, this is what he posted:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I hate to interrupt the extortion extravaganza BUT I got paid from ewinner today and Saturday. Considering I got paid today and Saturday and am leaving a decent amount(for me) at ewinner, I must be really stupid considering they don't have funds to pay(note the sarcasm). Course, my amount is chumpchange to bonus scammers, but as an FYI, future bonus scams should take place at Rio, not ewinner. Rio has a "proven track record" to pay scammers and have shown they are "standup guys" to scammers and their rules are much nicer to scammers and extorters alike. So, please take off ewinner off the eligible scam books. Now back to our regularly scheduled program of extortion at this station.
Good things about the post above: reports from a player getting paid
Bad things about that same post: it clearly has an anti-RX agenda. That'd be the only logical reason for all the insinuations of "extortions" and mentions of a book that has nothing to do with the situation at hand.
Nevertheless, more info is always more knowledge. Adn knowledge is always power.
Ahhh. Walk...Always the voice of reason.
Hey bro..I need to ask you a private question. Do me a favour and shoot me an email scipio2@hotmail.com.
N
Hey bro..I need to ask you a private question. Do me a favour and shoot me an email scipio2@hotmail.com.
N
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Having said this, I'd like quote a player's post. Is he really a player or is he just shilling? Is he attacking the interests of this forum? Is he only trying to pitch in with legitimate info? I don't know. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When childish agendas are presented, who knows what to believe. Best to overlook that piece of info. It holds no merit when establshed as agenda based.
When childish agendas are presented, who knows what to believe. Best to overlook that piece of info. It holds no merit when establshed as agenda based.
Decent post. As far as Altice goes, I beleive he is an "ExPat" from The Rx. and has an agenda regarding the site and its owners. I personally have no problem with this poster. I do however use a bullschit filter when I read anything he posts regarding The Rx. On other subjects, he is intelligent and seemingly unbiased. Just my two cents regarding the poster Altice.
wil.
wil.
Most know who it is and his unquenchable starvation for attention. If he bashes us he gets high marks from others with agendas. We are patient as the kid is very impressionable and just wants to be accepted. If he bashes the RX anyway he can then some will "like" him for that and he matters to someone, LOL. I know it's pathetic but such is life for some.
Anyway we will try and keep guys like him out of the grown up threads when we can. Most everyone knows who he is and what he represents, hatred and revenge. There's a site for that stuff already. Anyway thanks for the post Walk. Let's get back to the issue....
Anyway we will try and keep guys like him out of the grown up threads when we can. Most everyone knows who he is and what he represents, hatred and revenge. There's a site for that stuff already. Anyway thanks for the post Walk. Let's get back to the issue....
Walk,
As you know, I respect your posts a lot and find them informative.
You are correct in the following.
1) I have been paid.
2) I don't like the rx, so I will definitely admit an anti-rx slant.
You are incorrect in
1) Labeling me a shill.
A lot of what goes on at this sites is reading between the lines. Now, when posters aren't getting paid and then there is a question regarding e-winner's ability to pay, naturally I am worried regarding pay. I was busy betting college football on Saturday and then read a post like "ewinner is broke" so I immediately requested a withdrawal as I fear a run on the bank. I am no insider and have admitted it enough times, but the way I look at it is this.
1) At least 4 people on the boards have gotten paid. Now the 20K figure seems like a relatively small figure. So for 4 people to get paid and that's just the one's that posted would seem to be a good sign. Are all of their posters shills then?
2) For the people who haven't gotten paid, my first inclination is to suspect that there is something fishy going on. Maybe there's not. But I don't care about debating the fine points of ip addresses. This wreaks to me, but sure I could be wrong.
My philosophy on this is what would a local do in the following situation. Whether it was betting 40 dimes overnight in soccer or opening up multiple accounts, he would not pay and might even send some goons to beat the shit out of me. Of course, this is not a real world example, but it's annoying to me when people take advantage of the small print and throw common sense out the window.
The only plausible thing I can tell is maybe ewinner's lines are soft and these people are legitimately betting. As Lander accurately pointed out, they are hardly the bonus whoring type outfit due to 8 time rollover, 30 day rule etc. There is more than meets the eye for sure and the frustrating part is we will never know the full story. Finally, am I as confident in ewinner going forward as a place like Pinnacle? Absolutely not. That's why I keep my balances lower there and was stressed out over the weekend over this issue.
[This message was edited by altice on September 29, 2003 at 03:53 PM.]
As you know, I respect your posts a lot and find them informative.
You are correct in the following.
1) I have been paid.
2) I don't like the rx, so I will definitely admit an anti-rx slant.
You are incorrect in
1) Labeling me a shill.
A lot of what goes on at this sites is reading between the lines. Now, when posters aren't getting paid and then there is a question regarding e-winner's ability to pay, naturally I am worried regarding pay. I was busy betting college football on Saturday and then read a post like "ewinner is broke" so I immediately requested a withdrawal as I fear a run on the bank. I am no insider and have admitted it enough times, but the way I look at it is this.
1) At least 4 people on the boards have gotten paid. Now the 20K figure seems like a relatively small figure. So for 4 people to get paid and that's just the one's that posted would seem to be a good sign. Are all of their posters shills then?
2) For the people who haven't gotten paid, my first inclination is to suspect that there is something fishy going on. Maybe there's not. But I don't care about debating the fine points of ip addresses. This wreaks to me, but sure I could be wrong.
My philosophy on this is what would a local do in the following situation. Whether it was betting 40 dimes overnight in soccer or opening up multiple accounts, he would not pay and might even send some goons to beat the shit out of me. Of course, this is not a real world example, but it's annoying to me when people take advantage of the small print and throw common sense out the window.
The only plausible thing I can tell is maybe ewinner's lines are soft and these people are legitimately betting. As Lander accurately pointed out, they are hardly the bonus whoring type outfit due to 8 time rollover, 30 day rule etc. There is more than meets the eye for sure and the frustrating part is we will never know the full story. Finally, am I as confident in ewinner going forward as a place like Pinnacle? Absolutely not. That's why I keep my balances lower there and was stressed out over the weekend over this issue.
[This message was edited by altice on September 29, 2003 at 03:53 PM.]
General:
What some would consider an agenda, would be valued by others as opinions. I have no intentions of bashing anybody General, my true intention is to avoid censorship.
If it's indeed true the post is just agenda-driven, and altice is in reality a shill; then when the facts are sorted out, we will all be able to make an educated decision and save the info for future affairs.
But how can we make an educated decision if we can't read what the man has to say? I'm just trying to be objective General. Objectivity and veracity are always on everybody's interest.
Nanuk:
I'll shoot an e-mail right away, brother.
What some would consider an agenda, would be valued by others as opinions. I have no intentions of bashing anybody General, my true intention is to avoid censorship.
If it's indeed true the post is just agenda-driven, and altice is in reality a shill; then when the facts are sorted out, we will all be able to make an educated decision and save the info for future affairs.
But how can we make an educated decision if we can't read what the man has to say? I'm just trying to be objective General. Objectivity and veracity are always on everybody's interest.
Nanuk:
I'll shoot an e-mail right away, brother.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bettor1:
I'm from RI, my friend is from NY.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bettor1,
Okay, here is the problem.
You mentioned that you took the $11300 in payouts. That Identifies you as the second of the 35XX pair.
The two addresses provided by EWinner are: 64.222.44.146
and 64.228.18.48.
The first address trace passes through New York and dies after Boston. This can reasonably be assumed to be path to Rhode Island. Definitely not NY.
The second address trace goes to Canada. So, that can't be NY or Rhode Island.
Either, EWinner is lying about the IP addresses, or those accounts were not accessed from NYC. (note, I still leave open for EWinner at fault, but am showing inconsistency between ewinner and bettor1 claims)
Bettor1, can you explain how neither of the IPs listed by EWinner is from New York?
Techies can back me up, this is how you investigate duplicate accounts.
Here are the tails of the two traces:
10 tbr1-p012401.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.45]
11 tbr1-cl8.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.2.17]
12 gar4-p300.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.3.2]
13 att-gw.ny.qwest.net [192.205.32.170]
14 jfk-core-03.inet.qwest.net [205.171.230.26]
15 jfk-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.230.5]
16 bos-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.8.17]
17 bos-brdr-01.ip.qwest.net [205.171.28.34]
18 * * * Request timed out.
10 tbr1-p012301.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.62]
11 tbr1-cl8.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.2.17]
12 ggr1-p360.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.1.121]
13 sl-bb20-nyc-13-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.18.225]
14 sl-bb23-nyc-8-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.7.14]
15 sl-gw31-nyc-0-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.13.32]
16 sl-nexxia-6-0.sprintlink.net [160.81.111.38]
17 core2-newyork83-pos1-1.in.bellnexxia.net [206.108.103.197]
18 core3-montreal02-pos6-3.in.bellnexxia.net [206.108.103.213]
19 core4-toronto63-pos0-3.in.bellnexxia.net [206.108.107.185]
20 core2-toronto63-pos0-2.in.bellnexxia.net [64.230.242.106]
21 oshcorr01-atm5-1-0-34.in.bellnexxia.net [206.108.104.146]
times out before reaching Oshawa-ppp204367.sympatico.ca [64.228.18.48]
I'm from RI, my friend is from NY.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bettor1,
Okay, here is the problem.
You mentioned that you took the $11300 in payouts. That Identifies you as the second of the 35XX pair.
The two addresses provided by EWinner are: 64.222.44.146
and 64.228.18.48.
The first address trace passes through New York and dies after Boston. This can reasonably be assumed to be path to Rhode Island. Definitely not NY.
The second address trace goes to Canada. So, that can't be NY or Rhode Island.
Either, EWinner is lying about the IP addresses, or those accounts were not accessed from NYC. (note, I still leave open for EWinner at fault, but am showing inconsistency between ewinner and bettor1 claims)
Bettor1, can you explain how neither of the IPs listed by EWinner is from New York?
Techies can back me up, this is how you investigate duplicate accounts.
Here are the tails of the two traces:
10 tbr1-p012401.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.45]
11 tbr1-cl8.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.2.17]
12 gar4-p300.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.3.2]
13 att-gw.ny.qwest.net [192.205.32.170]
14 jfk-core-03.inet.qwest.net [205.171.230.26]
15 jfk-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.230.5]
16 bos-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.8.17]
17 bos-brdr-01.ip.qwest.net [205.171.28.34]
18 * * * Request timed out.
10 tbr1-p012301.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.62]
11 tbr1-cl8.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.2.17]
12 ggr1-p360.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.1.121]
13 sl-bb20-nyc-13-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.18.225]
14 sl-bb23-nyc-8-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.7.14]
15 sl-gw31-nyc-0-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.13.32]
16 sl-nexxia-6-0.sprintlink.net [160.81.111.38]
17 core2-newyork83-pos1-1.in.bellnexxia.net [206.108.103.197]
18 core3-montreal02-pos6-3.in.bellnexxia.net [206.108.103.213]
19 core4-toronto63-pos0-3.in.bellnexxia.net [206.108.107.185]
20 core2-toronto63-pos0-2.in.bellnexxia.net [64.230.242.106]
21 oshcorr01-atm5-1-0-34.in.bellnexxia.net [206.108.104.146]
times out before reaching Oshawa-ppp204367.sympatico.ca [64.228.18.48]
Wil:
Thanks for the "decent post" props. I guess that's good for me...
Pat:
You know me, brother. I'm curious by nature. I'm well aware of the points you made, hence my aclaratory note. But I for once, would love to see this get to the very bottom line. It's good for everybody in this industry.
Altice:
I didn't mean to label you as a shill. I was only trying to contemplate all the possibilities.
Thanks for the "decent post" props. I guess that's good for me...
Pat:
You know me, brother. I'm curious by nature. I'm well aware of the points you made, hence my aclaratory note. But I for once, would love to see this get to the very bottom line. It's good for everybody in this industry.
Altice:
I didn't mean to label you as a shill. I was only trying to contemplate all the possibilities.
Alice - what is the "RX extortion" in all this? Players came to us with their dispute. Someone else told us the book is broke before it even started. In fact the person said they would be trying to buy time to get some funds on hand. The owner would not even pick up the phone and discuss the matter. Advertisers and sites like this do that all the time when something comes up, no big deal to make a call.
We appreciate the feedback you got paid but when a book is "broke" that does not mean they can't pay anyone. It's great some are getting paid but that does not mean the matter is resolved. It surely doesn't mean there is an extortion attempt, I think you know that. It does mean if they are having serious cash flow problems they should not be hung at the site any longer. A potential for trouble exists. They were paid up through the end of next month according to both parties, agan what is it we are extortng? And why now? A month in football season is a good bit of money, why not "extort" them next month? We know you hate the RX but surely you know something to come in and say stuff like this. I hope you are not this desperate for an attaboy? If not explain what we are extorting in all this, if possible keep a civil tone.
Walk - I know you will speak you mind. We get too many who are here to primp for others to help them in their personal vendettas against the site. They don't care about the truth, it will always be the RX's fault to them. Normally it's okay but this is a serious issue.
We appreciate the feedback you got paid but when a book is "broke" that does not mean they can't pay anyone. It's great some are getting paid but that does not mean the matter is resolved. It surely doesn't mean there is an extortion attempt, I think you know that. It does mean if they are having serious cash flow problems they should not be hung at the site any longer. A potential for trouble exists. They were paid up through the end of next month according to both parties, agan what is it we are extortng? And why now? A month in football season is a good bit of money, why not "extort" them next month? We know you hate the RX but surely you know something to come in and say stuff like this. I hope you are not this desperate for an attaboy? If not explain what we are extorting in all this, if possible keep a civil tone.
Walk - I know you will speak you mind. We get too many who are here to primp for others to help them in their personal vendettas against the site. They don't care about the truth, it will always be the RX's fault to them. Normally it's okay but this is a serious issue.
Krackman,
No matter how much I don't like this site, there is a vast amount of knowledge at this site and despite my anti rx-slant, anyone who bets offshore would be stupid not to read posts about offshore books on this site and form their own opinions. So the pluses far outweigh the minuses even though it might not loook that way according to my posts. Meeting Sea Urchin and ATX far outweighs any negatives on this site.
No matter how much I don't like this site, there is a vast amount of knowledge at this site and despite my anti rx-slant, anyone who bets offshore would be stupid not to read posts about offshore books on this site and form their own opinions. So the pluses far outweigh the minuses even though it might not loook that way according to my posts. Meeting Sea Urchin and ATX far outweighs any negatives on this site.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have no intentions of bashing anybody General <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nor do I Sir. I am stating an opinion based on obvious posts here and at other sites and email correspondence with the poster. I know of the hatred for The RX. According to, I am even guilty by association no matter how much i try to do for players and books alike.
I hope my opinions are valued as well. I have no agendas
Nor do I Sir. I am stating an opinion based on obvious posts here and at other sites and email correspondence with the poster. I know of the hatred for The RX. According to, I am even guilty by association no matter how much i try to do for players and books alike.
I hope my opinions are valued as well. I have no agendas
Java, the wagers for both me and my friends account were placed through my account in RI. This fact is not disputed. This does not give EWinner the right to steal my and my friends money. I was concerned about the fact that like wagers being placed might cause problems and I called and spoke to Corby about it. I took the initiative and made the call and brought it to his attention. Unfortunately I didn't specifically ask if was it all right for my friend to place wagers through my computer. I thought I did that with customer service when my friend opened the account. Customer service acknowledges that my friend was clearly approved to use my computer to open the account but hasn't any recollection of specifically authorizing the placement of wagers. I put two and two together and jumped to the false conclusion that it was alright for my friend to use my computer to place wagers after speaking with Corby and being assured that he welcomed my action and my brothers action also.
The remedy is not to close the accounts and steal the money. How about an email or call. Or as another poster pointed out disable the accounts and coerce a call from me. Corby should have gotton the facts before making a unilateral, noncontesable decision. Now I'm told the decison is irreversable.
That's bulls**t.
The remedy is not to close the accounts and steal the money. How about an email or call. Or as another poster pointed out disable the accounts and coerce a call from me. Corby should have gotton the facts before making a unilateral, noncontesable decision. Now I'm told the decison is irreversable.
That's bulls**t.
Bettor1 you have been posting here for as long as I have and you know what you are doing. You had multiple accounts and many other places please do not insult this forums intelligence with all this "brother" and "friend" bullshit.
I am totally against them stealing the winnings but again "YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" and are not innocent in this.
I am totally against them stealing the winnings but again "YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING" and are not innocent in this.
Bettor-
I agree that confiscation of the funds is improper.
I was merely trying to discuss the value of the IP address arguments and how they are applied.
"...it was alright for my friend to use my computer to place wagers after speaking with Corby and being assured that he welcomed my action and my brothers action also."
You mention both "your friend" and "your brother". Is this a single individual?
Who accessed your account from Canada? (as indicated by the trace)
Based upon these problems and even taking your assertion that you were making the plays for your friend/brother, EWinner has ample cause to be suspicious. (Doesn't mean they have the right to confiscate.)
I am unclear on the specific of EWinners policies for bonuses and whether duplicate accounts would have given you any actual advantage.
The remedy I propose is:
1) Assume that the accounts are one account (same computer good enough for me).
2) Pay Bettor1 and friend/brother all winnings.
3) For any wager where they exceeded the wager limit, credit only the wager limit toward the bonus rollover requirements.
4a) Kick out the players, after they are paid.
4b) Allow them to play single account with enforced limits.
4c) Allow them to play with no future bonuses. Bonuses are a perk to attract customers you want, not a God-given right. Pay up to date, but no more bonuses to these guys.
This strikes me as fair. Players get their winnings, but not any more bonus than would be awarded to single account. Future play and terms at EWinner's discretion.
I agree that confiscation of the funds is improper.
I was merely trying to discuss the value of the IP address arguments and how they are applied.
"...it was alright for my friend to use my computer to place wagers after speaking with Corby and being assured that he welcomed my action and my brothers action also."
You mention both "your friend" and "your brother". Is this a single individual?
Who accessed your account from Canada? (as indicated by the trace)
Based upon these problems and even taking your assertion that you were making the plays for your friend/brother, EWinner has ample cause to be suspicious. (Doesn't mean they have the right to confiscate.)
I am unclear on the specific of EWinners policies for bonuses and whether duplicate accounts would have given you any actual advantage.
The remedy I propose is:
1) Assume that the accounts are one account (same computer good enough for me).
2) Pay Bettor1 and friend/brother all winnings.
3) For any wager where they exceeded the wager limit, credit only the wager limit toward the bonus rollover requirements.
4a) Kick out the players, after they are paid.
4b) Allow them to play single account with enforced limits.
4c) Allow them to play with no future bonuses. Bonuses are a perk to attract customers you want, not a God-given right. Pay up to date, but no more bonuses to these guys.
This strikes me as fair. Players get their winnings, but not any more bonus than would be awarded to single account. Future play and terms at EWinner's discretion.
