Does Jeff Bagwell deserve to get into the hall of fame??

[TomGshotput]

What was the record of Blyleven's teams in games he didn't start?

Wins and losses are determined so heavily by the other eight guys in the lineup. ERA, strikeouts, walks and those things not so much

Red Eye,
who do you think is the best eligible player not already in the Hall-of-Fame? I could see reasonable arguments for Raines, Larkin, Santo, but Bagwell has to be extremely close to any of them

 

[billhill999]

Tom, in my eyes, BB is a good guy, had one nasty curve, but not a HoF'er.
You think so, some do, some don't, it's all good.
One final question? Why is he a HoF'er now, but wasn't the last 13 years?

 

[REDEYE]

What was the record of Blyleven's teams in games he didn't start?

Wins and losses are determined so heavily by the other eight guys in the lineup. ERA, strikeouts, walks and those things not so much

Red Eye,
who do you think is the best eligible player not already in the Hall-of-Fame? I could see reasonable arguments for Raines, Larkin, Santo, but Bagwell has to be extremely close to any of them

I think Raines was the most impactful of the names

 

[ChrisParadise]

ya know.. ive changed my mind after looking at his stats again. if guys like andre dawson and ryne sandberg are in - bagwell should be. if it were up to me none of those would be. nor would alomar. even as a Reds fan im not even sure Larkin should ever get in. i think we have lowered our standards as baseball fans

 

[billhill999]

Tell me why Sandberg should not be in?
Who was the more dominant second baseman in the decade of the 80's?

 

[ChrisParadise]

Tell me why Sandberg should not be in?
Who was the more dominant second baseman in the decade of the 80's?

so thats your criteria?

with a 24 man roster we should add 24 new members to the hall every decade then right?

being the most dominant 2b means very little to me, how about most dominant middle reliever? maybe a stretch but you get the point

 

[TomGshotput]

Hard to see what separates Sandberg from Grich and Whitaker. When compared to Grich, given the years and ballpark differences, for offense I'll take the guy with the higher obp

CP,
The idea that if one guy gets in, someone else should go in is completely ridiculous. There are dozens who look very good when compared with Rice. All it means is the voters made a mistake, making another mistake doesn't correct that. The only truly valid argument is that if a player is one of the very best not already in, only then does he become deserving. To me, that is Bagwell, with a few others very close behind

 

[cincy_]

Every steroid era player that doesn't get in needs to STFU.

They were against steroid testing. The MLBPA fought against it forever. EVERY player could have had a chance to prove their innocence. They didn't want it.

Now players are getting fuckt in return.

Cry me a river.

 

[billhill999]

so thats your criteria?

Mine, and a thousand others.
How is this not a second bsemen's HoF resume?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sandbry01.shtml

The 10 consecutive all star teams?
The 9 consecutive gold gloves?
The (at the time) record breaking power numbers for a second basemen?
The MVP?
The eye popping stolen base numbers?

Dude?
Do your eyes read what your fingers write?

Look at the link again.
Sandberg was the greatest fielding and power hitting player everyday second basemen of his generation, and that's not good enough?

You can't be that ignorant?

p.s. middle relievers are 'specialists'

How many 'specialists' are in the NFL HoF?
Just one. Stenerud.

 

[ChrisParadise]

2b play 2b because they arent good enough to play ss...they shouldnt get THAT MUCH extra credit cause they played that weakass position

compare his career numbers to Larkins. its pretty close- Larkin's probably 10% better and even as a Reds fan i dont think he should be in

 

[ChrisParadise]

Hard to see what separates Sandberg from Grich and Whitaker. When compared to Grich, given the years and ballpark differences, for offense I'll take the guy with the higher obp

CP,
The idea that if one guy gets in, someone else should go in is completely ridiculous. There are dozens who look very good when compared with Rice. All it means is the voters made a mistake, making another mistake doesn't correct that. The only truly valid argument is that if a player is one of the very best not already in, only then does he become deserving. To me, that is Bagwell, with a few others very close behind

agreed...like i said if it were up to me these guys would not be in

 

[billhill999]

2b play 2b because they arent good enough to play ss...they shouldnt get THAT MUCH extra credit cause they played that weakass position

compare his career numbers to Larkins. its pretty close- Larkin's probably 10% better and even as a Reds fan i dont think he should be in

STOP already with Larkin.
He was virtually hurt his whold career.
He played 19 years, only four of them were full seasons.
Larkin had some pop, he did hit 30 homers once, and even though he won 3 gold gloves, his defense was suspect.
In those 19 years, Larkin never led the league in any one season.
Not one.
He was a Hall of Famer in nothing.
Here's his link, bold number means league leader, in what year did he lead the league in anything?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larkiba01.shtml

Knock it off with second base being weak ass.
Up the middle defense (C 2B SS CF) is critical in baseball.
Know why the 1984 Tigers won it all?
Because of up the middle defense.
Know why Dan Petry wins 18 games that season? Because in spring training of 1983 he wins 19 because his coaches asked him to stop being a fly ball pitcher and let Trammell and Whitaker field for him.
Does Milt Wilcox win 17 that year without Whitaker and Trammell, please?

2B is as every bit as important as SS.
One can not turn the DP without the other.
Good up the middle defense makes a decent ground ball pitcher good, a good ground ball pitcher great.

You 'cap baseball?
If not, see me in March, I'll tell you what ground ball pitchers have good up the middle defenses.

 

[REDEYE]

STOP already with Larkin.
He was virtually hurt his whold career.
He played 19 years, only four of them were full seasons.
Larkin had some pop, he did hit 30 homers once, and even though he won 3 gold gloves, his defense was suspect.
In those 19 years, Larkin never led the league in any one season.
Not one.
He was a Hall of Famer in nothing.
Here's his link, bold number means league leader, in what year did he lead the league in anything?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larkiba01.shtml

Knock it off with second base being weak ass.
Up the middle defense (C 2B SS CF) is critical in baseball.
Know why the 1984 Tigers won it all?
Because of up the middle defense.
Know why Dan Petry wins 18 games that season? Because in spring training of 1983 he wins 19 because his coaches asked him to stop being a fly ball pitcher and let Trammell and Whitaker field for him.
Does Milt Wilcox win 17 that year without Whitaker and Trammell, please?

2B is as every bit as important as SS.
One can not turn the DP without the other.
Good up the middle defense makes a decent ground ball pitcher good, a good ground ball pitcher great.

You 'cap baseball?
If not, see me in March, I'll tell you what ground ball pitchers have good up the middle defenses.

Damn your good !

 

[ChrisParadise]

STOP already with Larkin.
He was virtually hurt his whold career.
He played 19 years, only four of them were full seasons.
Larkin had some pop, he did hit 30 homers once, and even though he won 3 gold gloves, his defense was suspect.
In those 19 years, Larkin never led the league in any one season.
Not one.
He was a Hall of Famer in nothing.
Here's his link, bold number means league leader, in what year did he lead the league in anything?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larkiba01.shtml

Knock it off with second base being weak ass.
Up the middle defense (C 2B SS CF) is critical in baseball.
Know why the 1984 Tigers won it all?
Because of up the middle defense.
Know why Dan Petry wins 18 games that season? Because in spring training of 1983 he wins 19 because his coaches asked him to stop being a fly ball pitcher and let Trammell and Whitaker field for him.
Does Milt Wilcox win 17 that year without Whitaker and Trammell, please?

2B is as every bit as important as SS.
One can not turn the DP without the other.
Good up the middle defense makes a decent ground ball pitcher good, a good ground ball pitcher great.

You 'cap baseball?
If not, see me in March, I'll tell you what ground ball pitchers have good up the middle defenses.

im not exactly sure what you are saying.you think he should or shouldnt be in the hall?

 

[ChrisParadise]

oh now i see....but larkin had better numbers than sandberg while playing a harder position.


but like i said neither should be in the HOF

of course 2b is important - but its where the team gimp plays. always has been always will be. at the major league level the team gimp is still a good player but shouldnt put him in the hall for beign a good player.

 

[billhill999]

Damn your good !

You are just picking up on this?
:missingte

 

[billhill999]

oh now i see....but larkin had better numbers than sandberg while playing a harder position.


but like i said neither should be in the HOF

of course 2b is important - but its where the team gimp plays. always has been always will be. at the major league level the team gimp is still a good player but shouldnt put him in the hall for beign a good player.

Sandberg 162 game average 21-79-.285 99 runs
Larkin 162 game average 15-71 .295 99 runs

How can you possibly tell me with a straight face that Sandberg, the greatest FIELDING and POWER HITTING second baseman of his generation is not Hall worthy !

 

[REDEYE]

You are just picking up on this?
:missingte

Better late then never !

 

[REDEYE]

You are just picking up on this?
:missingte

I mean this in a good way, your a freak !

 

[billhill999]

I mean this in a good way, your a freak !