The fact that Revere14 could not be contacted and that he went around th system doesn't really prove anything. It does leave a lot of room for speculation.
The outcome of this claim is apparent. Fact one, Revere14 did manage to place the wagers using the resources made available to him by WSEX. Fact two, the book's software should have caught the wagers if not the human element should have been there to pick up the slack.
Regardless, of the circumstances, the wagers should have been cancelled before the game was over. I think that the mistake was caught when it was too late. This is why Steve was reluctant to admit the time the plays were cancelled and why a return e-mail has yet to surface.
WSEX and steve know that they technically fvcked up, but the amount of the wager leaves them no choice but to defend their position.
Revere14 you aren't getting anything. It is possible that WSEX will agree to a small settlement ($500.00)
But that's just my opinion.
The outcome of this claim is apparent. Fact one, Revere14 did manage to place the wagers using the resources made available to him by WSEX. Fact two, the book's software should have caught the wagers if not the human element should have been there to pick up the slack.
Regardless, of the circumstances, the wagers should have been cancelled before the game was over. I think that the mistake was caught when it was too late. This is why Steve was reluctant to admit the time the plays were cancelled and why a return e-mail has yet to surface.
WSEX and steve know that they technically fvcked up, but the amount of the wager leaves them no choice but to defend their position.
Revere14 you aren't getting anything. It is possible that WSEX will agree to a small settlement ($500.00)
But that's just my opinion.
as stated previously this guy was not just 'innocently' laying 40G on this game and hoping for the best, on the other hand WSEX should be(??) aware that their software allows this type of bet and they are the ones ultimately resposible here.
they should pay the man his money and upgrade thier software if they don't want this shit happening again.
they should pay the man his money and upgrade thier software if they don't want this shit happening again.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>hsteve said that he tried to caontact him by phone and email, but revere stated that his phone was changed since he originally signed up but still uses the same email address, I would be curious to see the return emails that were supposodly sent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let's say Revere is telling the truth about that. He is still remiss for not updating his phone number. Again, why should WSEX be penalized for Revere's incorrect contact information? What has WSEX done in the past to lead you to believe they are lying now about trying to contact Revere to cancel his bets before the match went off? I'd like to see Buzzsaw's answers to these questions.
I think you are right that WSEX should provide the return emails. That would justify WSEX's action for me.
C.M.
Let's say Revere is telling the truth about that. He is still remiss for not updating his phone number. Again, why should WSEX be penalized for Revere's incorrect contact information? What has WSEX done in the past to lead you to believe they are lying now about trying to contact Revere to cancel his bets before the match went off? I'd like to see Buzzsaw's answers to these questions.
I think you are right that WSEX should provide the return emails. That would justify WSEX's action for me.
C.M.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bet2Gamble.com:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>hsteve said that he tried to caontact him by phone and email, but revere stated that his phone was changed since he originally signed up but still uses the same email address, I would be curious to see the return emails that were supposodly sent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let's say Revere is telling the truth about that. He is still remiss for not updating his phone number. Again, why should WSEX be penalized for Revere's incorrect contact information? What has WSEX done in the past to lead you to believe they are lying now about trying to contact Revere to cancel his bets before the match went off? I'd like to see Buzzsaw's answers to these questions.
I think you are right that WSEX should provide the return emails. That would justify WSEX's action for me.
C.M.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
my guess is they won`t supply those emails(wsex) and if they do I wouldn`t be surprised if they were time stamped after the game was over
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>hsteve said that he tried to caontact him by phone and email, but revere stated that his phone was changed since he originally signed up but still uses the same email address, I would be curious to see the return emails that were supposodly sent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let's say Revere is telling the truth about that. He is still remiss for not updating his phone number. Again, why should WSEX be penalized for Revere's incorrect contact information? What has WSEX done in the past to lead you to believe they are lying now about trying to contact Revere to cancel his bets before the match went off? I'd like to see Buzzsaw's answers to these questions.
I think you are right that WSEX should provide the return emails. That would justify WSEX's action for me.
C.M.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
my guess is they won`t supply those emails(wsex) and if they do I wouldn`t be surprised if they were time stamped after the game was over
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>JAVA
Lifesabet and eh?
What are you guys smoking. If this happened in Vegas, the casino commission would make WSEX honor the bet since they accepted it. Period. It's only a "cyber crime" if you hack into someone's system to alter the data and circumvent the programming. That was NOT the case here.
*********************
DickW-
...if the Vegas casino had online software. The point of my analogy was that in the US the casino would be forced to accept the wager if the player did not violate a posted rule or hack the system.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your speculation as to what Vegas would do in a similar situation is irrelevant since the Nevada Gaming & Control Board doesn't regulate any online gambling sites. Let's take a look at how another sportsbook might have handled the exact same situation. To do so, let's first take a look at snippets of the terms and conditions of another online sportsbook site. Please read the following carefully.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>APPLICATION
c. You will provide **** with accurate and complete billing and primary residential information including your full legal name, residential address, telephone number and email address. Any changes to the above-mentioned Account information must be reported to ***** as soon as possible, but in no event later than 10 days after such change.
Wagering:
All ineffective wager requests due to tote error, track error, communications complications, pool merge failure, or any other technical difficulties shall be canceled, and the wagering amount refunded to the Account Holders account. ***** reserves the right to cancel any wager and refund the wager amount to the Account Holder account.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
Although ****** diligently updates all track and wagering information periodically, in no way shall ***** be liable for damages whether direct, indirect, incidental, exemplary, punitive, special or consequential, including, but not limited to loss of revenue, anticipated profits or other economic loss, whether foreseeable or not, in connection with or arising out of the availability, existence, furnishing or functioning of any services or information provided, including but not limited to omission or misstatements of track program, past performances and late changes of race information.
****** shall not be liable for any loss or damage, delay in performance or nonperformance caused by equipment malfunction or breakdown, information unavailability, strikes or other labor disputes, or riots, fire, insurrection, war, failure of carriers, the elements, accidents, acts of God, or any other causes beyond *****'s control whether or not similar to the foregoing.
***** may, in its sole discretion and at any time, modify, alter or discontinue the Service or limit, terminate or suspend Account Holder use of the Account.
ARBITRATION CLAUSE
All disputes, controversies or differences which may arise between ***** and an Account Holder, out of or in relation to or in connection with this Service shall be finally settled by arbitration in (location below), in accordance with the rules for commercial arbitration of the American Arbitration Association in effect at the time such arbitration is initiated. A list of arbitrators shall be presented to the Claimant and Respondent from which one will be chosen using the applicable rules. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding upon all Parties.
The prevailing party shall be awarded all of the filing fees and related administrative costs. Administrative and other costs of enforcing an arbitration award, including the costs of subpoenas, depositions, transcripts and the like, witness fees, payment of reasonable attorney's fees, and similar costs related to collecting an arbitrator's award, will be added to, and become a part of, the amount due pursuant to this agreement. Any questions involving contract interpretation shall be made in accordance with the laws of (location below). An arbitrator's decision may be entered in any jurisdiction in which the party has assets in order to collect any amounts due hereunder.
NO WARRANTIES PROVIDED BY ******
(D) DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY. ***** SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY COSTS OR DAMAGES ARISING DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FROM USE OF THE SERVICE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL ******, ITS EMPLOYEES, AFFILIATES OR CONTRACTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, THAT RESULT IN ANY WAY, FROM ANY USE OF YOUR ACCOUNT, OR THE SERVICE, THE MAKING OF WAGERS THROUGH THE SERVICE, OR YOUR INABILITY TO USE THE SERVICE, OR FROM YOUR RELIANCE ON, OR USE OF, INFORMATION PROVIDED ON OR THROUGH THE SERVICE OR THAT RESULTS FROM MISTAKES, OMISSIONS, INTERRUPTIONS, DELETION OF FILES, ERRORS, DEFECTS, DELAYS IN OPERATION OR TRANSMISSION, OR ANY FAILURE OF PERFORMANCE. *****'s ENTIRE LIABILITY AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY WITH RESPECT TO THE USE OF ANY SOFTWARE PROVIDED OR USED AT ****** SHALL BE THE REPLACEMENT OF ANY ****** SOFTWARE FOUND TO BE DEFECTIVE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
(location below = Woodland Hills, California)
So what sportsbook's rules are the these? They are the rules of Youbet.com, the only online gambling site licensed and located in the United States. Here is their terms and conditions page.
Based on their rules, it is very clear Revere would have a hard if not impossible time getting an arbitrator to rule in his favor. First of all, he violated their Application Requirements by not updating his phone information, which led to Youbet not being able to contact him to cancel his wagers. At the time Revere's wagers were discovered, no one in Youbet's office had the authority to cancel the wagers. Based on Youbet's rules, that would have been immaterial since they basically protect themselves from any type of situation like that, and in fact, based on their rules, it's clear that it doesn't matter whether or not they catch the error before or after the bet has been accepted. (For those clamoring for regulation, read Youbet's rules page carefully. Be careful for what you wish for.) But in this case, it's clear they caught the error before the match went off and attempted to notify Revere that his wager had been cancelled before the match started. Through no fault of their own, and due to Revere's violation of their Application section, they were unable to reach him because he hadn't updated his phone information. Under their limitations of liability in clause D, the delay in operation or transmission section would come into affect here because the supervisor for Youbet was unable to physically cancel the wagers before the match started. It doesn't matter that he made similar bets before because in this case his bet was cancelled before the match started. Those prior bets obviously weren't.
I can't see how Revere's case would have a leg to stand on based on the regulations of the only online gambling site located and licensed in the United States.
C.M.
Lifesabet and eh?
What are you guys smoking. If this happened in Vegas, the casino commission would make WSEX honor the bet since they accepted it. Period. It's only a "cyber crime" if you hack into someone's system to alter the data and circumvent the programming. That was NOT the case here.
*********************
DickW-
...if the Vegas casino had online software. The point of my analogy was that in the US the casino would be forced to accept the wager if the player did not violate a posted rule or hack the system.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your speculation as to what Vegas would do in a similar situation is irrelevant since the Nevada Gaming & Control Board doesn't regulate any online gambling sites. Let's take a look at how another sportsbook might have handled the exact same situation. To do so, let's first take a look at snippets of the terms and conditions of another online sportsbook site. Please read the following carefully.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>APPLICATION
c. You will provide **** with accurate and complete billing and primary residential information including your full legal name, residential address, telephone number and email address. Any changes to the above-mentioned Account information must be reported to ***** as soon as possible, but in no event later than 10 days after such change.
Wagering:
All ineffective wager requests due to tote error, track error, communications complications, pool merge failure, or any other technical difficulties shall be canceled, and the wagering amount refunded to the Account Holders account. ***** reserves the right to cancel any wager and refund the wager amount to the Account Holder account.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
Although ****** diligently updates all track and wagering information periodically, in no way shall ***** be liable for damages whether direct, indirect, incidental, exemplary, punitive, special or consequential, including, but not limited to loss of revenue, anticipated profits or other economic loss, whether foreseeable or not, in connection with or arising out of the availability, existence, furnishing or functioning of any services or information provided, including but not limited to omission or misstatements of track program, past performances and late changes of race information.
****** shall not be liable for any loss or damage, delay in performance or nonperformance caused by equipment malfunction or breakdown, information unavailability, strikes or other labor disputes, or riots, fire, insurrection, war, failure of carriers, the elements, accidents, acts of God, or any other causes beyond *****'s control whether or not similar to the foregoing.
***** may, in its sole discretion and at any time, modify, alter or discontinue the Service or limit, terminate or suspend Account Holder use of the Account.
ARBITRATION CLAUSE
All disputes, controversies or differences which may arise between ***** and an Account Holder, out of or in relation to or in connection with this Service shall be finally settled by arbitration in (location below), in accordance with the rules for commercial arbitration of the American Arbitration Association in effect at the time such arbitration is initiated. A list of arbitrators shall be presented to the Claimant and Respondent from which one will be chosen using the applicable rules. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding upon all Parties.
The prevailing party shall be awarded all of the filing fees and related administrative costs. Administrative and other costs of enforcing an arbitration award, including the costs of subpoenas, depositions, transcripts and the like, witness fees, payment of reasonable attorney's fees, and similar costs related to collecting an arbitrator's award, will be added to, and become a part of, the amount due pursuant to this agreement. Any questions involving contract interpretation shall be made in accordance with the laws of (location below). An arbitrator's decision may be entered in any jurisdiction in which the party has assets in order to collect any amounts due hereunder.
NO WARRANTIES PROVIDED BY ******
(D) DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY. ***** SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY COSTS OR DAMAGES ARISING DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FROM USE OF THE SERVICE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL ******, ITS EMPLOYEES, AFFILIATES OR CONTRACTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, THAT RESULT IN ANY WAY, FROM ANY USE OF YOUR ACCOUNT, OR THE SERVICE, THE MAKING OF WAGERS THROUGH THE SERVICE, OR YOUR INABILITY TO USE THE SERVICE, OR FROM YOUR RELIANCE ON, OR USE OF, INFORMATION PROVIDED ON OR THROUGH THE SERVICE OR THAT RESULTS FROM MISTAKES, OMISSIONS, INTERRUPTIONS, DELETION OF FILES, ERRORS, DEFECTS, DELAYS IN OPERATION OR TRANSMISSION, OR ANY FAILURE OF PERFORMANCE. *****'s ENTIRE LIABILITY AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY WITH RESPECT TO THE USE OF ANY SOFTWARE PROVIDED OR USED AT ****** SHALL BE THE REPLACEMENT OF ANY ****** SOFTWARE FOUND TO BE DEFECTIVE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
(location below = Woodland Hills, California)
So what sportsbook's rules are the these? They are the rules of Youbet.com, the only online gambling site licensed and located in the United States. Here is their terms and conditions page.
Based on their rules, it is very clear Revere would have a hard if not impossible time getting an arbitrator to rule in his favor. First of all, he violated their Application Requirements by not updating his phone information, which led to Youbet not being able to contact him to cancel his wagers. At the time Revere's wagers were discovered, no one in Youbet's office had the authority to cancel the wagers. Based on Youbet's rules, that would have been immaterial since they basically protect themselves from any type of situation like that, and in fact, based on their rules, it's clear that it doesn't matter whether or not they catch the error before or after the bet has been accepted. (For those clamoring for regulation, read Youbet's rules page carefully. Be careful for what you wish for.) But in this case, it's clear they caught the error before the match went off and attempted to notify Revere that his wager had been cancelled before the match started. Through no fault of their own, and due to Revere's violation of their Application section, they were unable to reach him because he hadn't updated his phone information. Under their limitations of liability in clause D, the delay in operation or transmission section would come into affect here because the supervisor for Youbet was unable to physically cancel the wagers before the match started. It doesn't matter that he made similar bets before because in this case his bet was cancelled before the match started. Those prior bets obviously weren't.
I can't see how Revere's case would have a leg to stand on based on the regulations of the only online gambling site located and licensed in the United States.
C.M.
Book's rules are mostly a joke!
They always say something like "by opening an account to us you agree that if we don't want to pay you,we ll ask to f**ck off and thats what you ll have to do "
I also avoid giving my true phone number,I don't wish to receive promotions via phone or any other bullshit.However my e-mail works fine and I check it regulary.It appears that wsex never sent an e-mail to revere.
They always say something like "by opening an account to us you agree that if we don't want to pay you,we ll ask to f**ck off and thats what you ll have to do "
I also avoid giving my true phone number,I don't wish to receive promotions via phone or any other bullshit.However my e-mail works fine and I check it regulary.It appears that wsex never sent an e-mail to revere.
How many of you remember to update your phone number with your book when you move?
If WSEX can provide proof that an e-mail was sent to Revere before the match started, then they have groudn to stand on. When I send an e-mail to a bad address it gets bounced back within a couple minutes. Provide the bounced back e-mail Steve or pay the man.
Also, Revere claimed that he has been successful in depositing with you via Neteller - which he shouldn't be able to be unless you have his correct e-mail address. Please logically refute that claim.
Also lost in the shuffle is the point that it shouldn't take someone 5 hours to get into the office in Antigua to start hitting the "Wager refunded" button.
If WSEX can provide proof that an e-mail was sent to Revere before the match started, then they have groudn to stand on. When I send an e-mail to a bad address it gets bounced back within a couple minutes. Provide the bounced back e-mail Steve or pay the man.
Also, Revere claimed that he has been successful in depositing with you via Neteller - which he shouldn't be able to be unless you have his correct e-mail address. Please logically refute that claim.
Also lost in the shuffle is the point that it shouldn't take someone 5 hours to get into the office in Antigua to start hitting the "Wager refunded" button.
I just got back from Mississippi...
I am exhausted now and going to bed...
I will be happy to speak with both Steve @ WSEX and the gambler involved in this dispute tomorrow morning....
Please shoot me an email with a phone number so I may call you guys...
Thanks,
THE SHRINK
shrink@therx.com
I am exhausted now and going to bed...
I will be happy to speak with both Steve @ WSEX and the gambler involved in this dispute tomorrow morning....
Please shoot me an email with a phone number so I may call you guys...
Thanks,
THE SHRINK
shrink@therx.com
