Unproven 3rd year player is a bit strong. I mean I think barring injury he'll atleast be like a 10-12 time all star evolutionary KG type player and that might be at worst. I think he is probably the 3rd best player in the league right now so it isn't like I'm just saying Rajon Rondo would school Magic or Isiah Thomas or something. I think a big reason you are so taken aback by the comment is maybe you aren't familiar with how high myself and others are on Anthony Davis.
The point isn't tons of guys are better than Michael Jordan. The point is everyone is better in aggregate so to speak. Obviously Larry Bird could play today and would still be a very good player as he would benefit from modern advancements like Dirk or Kobe has. (however guys like Kupchak/Wedman/Ainge, totally extinct, the baseline player is too athletic for those types now) Bird would also benefit from the fact that shooting 3s is considered a good shot now and a viable strategy, his career ended just as teams were figuring that out. Doesn't mean the game was better then, just means him or Michael Jordan is a transcendent talent that could play in any era.
Saying the guy you think is the best now or going to be the best in 5 years is better than the guy who was the best 25-30 years ago is just apart of that. Obviously some guys do transcend era, like if you are the best player of all time just 15 years ago you might be the best player now. I.e Michael Jordan. I think he would have a harder time winning 6 straight rings now with Durant/LeBron/SA in his way instead of a lot of the teams he faced in the late 90s but I still think he is the best player ever.
And Pat Riley says some version of what I am saying in that video at 3:30. Obviously he can't comeout and be like "Look guys are way better now, forget the old guys who built the league and are the reason we're all rich as hell now, these guys are just stronger, faster and better conditioned...Most of them train year round and have like 8 people supervising their career because it takes 2 good seasons to get paid more $ than a fortune 500 CEO now" but he says teams now would beat teams then and says the 2012 Olympic team or w/e it was would beat the '92 team because of athletic/conditioning advantages. I mean that's not like JustinCruise, it's Pat Riley.
Most sportswriters by nature are nostalgic and like to sell the history of the game (as are most fans) When they are ranking players or teams, they moreso mean by accomplishment/career based, not necessarily who we need vs aliens as I joked. You do hear a lot say "it is tough to compare era's" I don't really think anyone thinks Bob Cousy would be checking Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook if he were around today.
Obviously basketball it is harder to convince people that the sport evolved over time. With football it is very easy since so much of it is just cut and dry size/speed/athleticism and that stuff is way easier to measure.
And lastly, basketball in the 80s was much different than the 90s. Teams started getting way better on D then, more halfcourt game, scoring went down. The game you saw in the 90s is closer to now than it was the 80s, especially the early 80s just very little structure.
The point isn't tons of guys are better than Michael Jordan. The point is everyone is better in aggregate so to speak. Obviously Larry Bird could play today and would still be a very good player as he would benefit from modern advancements like Dirk or Kobe has. (however guys like Kupchak/Wedman/Ainge, totally extinct, the baseline player is too athletic for those types now) Bird would also benefit from the fact that shooting 3s is considered a good shot now and a viable strategy, his career ended just as teams were figuring that out. Doesn't mean the game was better then, just means him or Michael Jordan is a transcendent talent that could play in any era.
Saying the guy you think is the best now or going to be the best in 5 years is better than the guy who was the best 25-30 years ago is just apart of that. Obviously some guys do transcend era, like if you are the best player of all time just 15 years ago you might be the best player now. I.e Michael Jordan. I think he would have a harder time winning 6 straight rings now with Durant/LeBron/SA in his way instead of a lot of the teams he faced in the late 90s but I still think he is the best player ever.
And Pat Riley says some version of what I am saying in that video at 3:30. Obviously he can't comeout and be like "Look guys are way better now, forget the old guys who built the league and are the reason we're all rich as hell now, these guys are just stronger, faster and better conditioned...Most of them train year round and have like 8 people supervising their career because it takes 2 good seasons to get paid more $ than a fortune 500 CEO now" but he says teams now would beat teams then and says the 2012 Olympic team or w/e it was would beat the '92 team because of athletic/conditioning advantages. I mean that's not like JustinCruise, it's Pat Riley.
Most sportswriters by nature are nostalgic and like to sell the history of the game (as are most fans) When they are ranking players or teams, they moreso mean by accomplishment/career based, not necessarily who we need vs aliens as I joked. You do hear a lot say "it is tough to compare era's" I don't really think anyone thinks Bob Cousy would be checking Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook if he were around today.
Obviously basketball it is harder to convince people that the sport evolved over time. With football it is very easy since so much of it is just cut and dry size/speed/athleticism and that stuff is way easier to measure.
And lastly, basketball in the 80s was much different than the 90s. Teams started getting way better on D then, more halfcourt game, scoring went down. The game you saw in the 90s is closer to now than it was the 80s, especially the early 80s just very little structure.
[ Magic Johnson discusses how he would do in today's game, and salivates at the chance, and says Bird would dominate too. ]
<header class="entry-header" style="color: rgb(55, 55, 55); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 24.375px;">Magic Johnson discusses how he would do if he played in today’s NBA
Posted on May 6, 2014 by Chris Trevino
</header>Lakers legend Magic Johnson spoke at Cal State Long Beach’s Carpenter Performing Arts Center on a range of topics including; his childhood, basketball career, business acumen and even touched on Clippers ownership. At the beginning of the speech, Magic spanned the stage so that people could take “selfies” with him.
Photo by Steve McCrank/Daily Breeze
Magic Johnson got riled up by one student asking a question during his talk at Long Beach State University Monday evening. How does he think he would do if he played in the NBA today?
“If I played in this era, it would be over,” said Johnson. “See right now, there is no hand check. Back in my day, you could hand check. You could hard foul. They got private planes now. We had to take commercial and we were still winning 62 games. And all they do is shoot jumpers today too.”
“Don’t get me started, I’m sweating like I’m getting ready to play.”
While Johnson said he would thrive in today’s scoring friendly game, he offered up a couple players that could play in his NBA era. Those names included Lakers star Kobe Bryant and the Heat’s LeBron James.
“Could you imagine Michael Jordan with no hand checking? Larry Bird?” said Johnson.
At that point, Johnson went back on stage to demonstrate his rivalry with Bird and Jordan and their notorious trash talking. He showed the crowd how Bird would call his shots and ask why Johnson was bothering trying to stop his shot, moments before sinking the attempt. Or the time the Celtic great asked his peers during a three-point shooting contest who was coming in second because he was taking first.
“Larry Bird was unbelievable, up here with this,” said Johnson, pointing to his head. “That’s why Kobe is so dominate. He’s got game but his basketball IQ is off the charts.”
http://www.insidesocal.com/lakers/2...ing_wp_cron=1416716471.1390540599822998046875
I'm a Celts fan so I never get into dissing Magic but I do think he is the legend thats game would translate the least to now. He couldn't really shoot and it'd be much harder to hide him defensively now than it was then with all the screen/roll in the game now. More teams have a guy that could physically matchup with him than they used to and also teams just can't really getout and run now like they could then. That is really here nor there though.
Also the next time an ex-athlete says "Nah man, hell no these guys are way too good now" I'd like to know
Magic probably thinks he could play in the NBA right now if they let him. Of course all the old dudes are gonna say they would crush now. If they didn't have that mindset they wouldn't be legends.
Have players gotten bigger, stronger, and faster?
Yes, they have, but not as much as some people exaggerate about.
And in reality, how do we really know if that even makes a difference?
Take a look at UFC Fighting for example.
We have all seen some bigger, stronger, more athletic fighters be taken out by average looking guys. (Yes this argument is relevant)
I think the change all started in the 80's & 90's and that era of players, on up to now, are all equal.
This is what I will end my opinion with:
That first U.S. Basketball Olympic team would beat any team of the NBA's best today.
Think about that and unless you are extremely stubborn, you suddenly realize that today's players not only aren't any better than they were in that 80, 90 & early 2,000 era, but not even as good!
Yes, they have, but not as much as some people exaggerate about.
And in reality, how do we really know if that even makes a difference?
Take a look at UFC Fighting for example.
We have all seen some bigger, stronger, more athletic fighters be taken out by average looking guys. (Yes this argument is relevant)
I think the change all started in the 80's & 90's and that era of players, on up to now, are all equal.
This is what I will end my opinion with:
That first U.S. Basketball Olympic team would beat any team of the NBA's best today.
Think about that and unless you are extremely stubborn, you suddenly realize that today's players not only aren't any better than they were in that 80, 90 & early 2,000 era, but not even as good!
No, the stubborn part would be to deny the statement about the first U.S. Mens Basketball team being better than any team they can compile today.
As a matter of fact if someone DOES claim they can compile a team today better than that team, then maybe they aren't stubborn and simply sports-illiterate...
I can't beleive questions like this exist. If Bird played in todays game, he is Adam Morrison. If Morrison played back in the 80's he is Larry Bird...The NBA is nothing but tall freakishly athletic animals and have basically done everything they can to eliminate the white man in the game...Dirk is a legit 7 footer that can shoot like a 2 guard and drive like a small forward. If you are white and in the NBA in 2014, you can play. Dirk is a less athletic and slower version of Lebron.
See, but that is only a theory Vlad.
We don't REALLY know.
Some people said Wilt & West could compete in the 80s & 90's.
Some said they couldn't.
Now people are saying the same thing about todays vs 20 yrs ago.
Truth is we will never know.
In my opinion, 80's up to today are all on par with one another.
And again, if today's players are so much better, list a team today that could compete with the first U.S. Men's team.
Not even possible...
I think the first dream team was overated. Over half the team was past their prime.
magic, bird, mullin, Barkley, drexler, etc were all past their prime .
The dream team after that one was probably better then the first even though it did not have the name recognition of the first team.
And I think this team they just had this past year could probably beat that first dream team.
hno:#%()
:neenee:
LOL LOL LOL Cmonnnnnnn Chop!
These scrubs today couldn't compete with that team!
Have you had coffee yet lol?!?
#%()
:neenee:
LOL LOL LOL Cmonnnnnnn Chop!
These scrubs today couldn't compete with that team!
Have you had coffee yet lol?!?
With a healthy Paul George and Kevin Durant I think it would have been a great game.
My theory on past vs present is present always wins...People are bigger, stronger, faster ,etc.....I think good high school baseball players are better than babe Ruth...Back then Babe Ruth was hitting off of guys who had 2nd jobs putting up drywall....I think Peyton Manning is the greatest qb of all time as he has completely redefined the game....30 years from now, that probably won't be true... Look at the just the last decade with these elite 11 qb camps and passing academies and passing tournaments. Andrew Luck will likely break all of Peyton's records if healthy and someone will break Luck's records.
Remember back in the day, you were considered a good qb if you threw for 3,000 yards. Now, it is a given you are throwing for 3K yards or you would get benched.
What is 1 aspect of Bird's game that is great? shooting? So he is Mike Miller or Shane Battier? Robert Horry?
Remember back in the day, you were considered a good qb if you threw for 3,000 yards. Now, it is a given you are throwing for 3K yards or you would get benched.
What is 1 aspect of Bird's game that is great? shooting? So he is Mike Miller or Shane Battier? Robert Horry?
My main point is that people are exaggerating on the difference in size, speed, etc. these days.
The way some make it sound is that players are supposedly progressing so much that in 100 years they will be 10 foot giants.
Last I remember there were still just as many guys in the NFL running 4.3 40 yard dashes 30 years ago.
As for Bird, EVERY aspect of his game was great...
Just look at today's players. Most cant shoot 70% unguarded from 15 feet out (free throws). Today's players are made for ESPN highlights. Get most of them 15+ feet from the basket and they can't hit the jumper consistently like the players in the 80's could. Plus, I don't think most of these players today could handle the physical play that teams in the 80's inflicted on you on a nightly basis. I grew up watching 80's basketball. Am I bias...yes.
Dirk Nowitzki or Larry Bird? Another classic example of comparing eras, where comparison really isn't possible.
On one hand, you have the uber-physical and fundamentally sound years of the '80s which rejuvenated a struggling NBA. And on the other hand, you have the modern NBA where it's more about finesse, isolation plays and endorsement deals.
To be clear, comparing these two greats is like comparing a million dollar diamond to a million dollar bar of solid gold. You really can't go wrong either way.
While Larry Bird has multiple championship rings to solidify his status as an all-time great, Nowitzki's uncanny ability to score is second to none. His seven-foot frame combined with his shooting technique is indefensible, being that he releases his shot above his head.
The biggest reason the name Bird comes up when talking about Nowitzki and vice versa, is merely because of the color of their skin.
Let's take a trip back in time to where both of these guys started setting themselves apart from their peers as young aspiring basketball greats.
While "The Hick from French Lick" grew up on a farm in a very rural environment, he started setting himself apart as a sophomore in high school, and eventually left Spring Valley High School as the all-time leading scorer. Now you tell me what the competition could possibly have been like in the early '70s in an area that had more farm animals than the human population.
Getty Images/Getty Images
Nowitzki's teen years were spent competing against grown men, being that he turned pro as a 16-year-old, playing for Germany's second-division team DJK Wuerzburg. He was still able to set himself apart from the competition which eventually earned him an invitation to the ever so prestigious Nike Hoop Summit.
Neither young bright stars Rashard Lewis nor Al Harrington could contain Nowitzki as he dominated USA's finest leading the International side with 33 points and 14 rebounds.
Sure, Bird led Indiana State to a 33-1 record in his senior season at ISU. And yes, of course he left ISU as the NCAA's fifth-leading scorer at the time. But how can you compare the talent and level of competition of the mid-'70s Missouri Valley Conference, to that of modern day AAU competitions and exposure of international talent that face off?
From Nike Hoop Summits to Adidas ABCD camps the competition is fierce and only the best end up on top.
Nowitzki was primed for the success he is currently having. And he has Holger Geschwinder to thank for it. Geschwinder laid the foundation for Nowitzki's yellow brick road. All Dirk had to do was stay on course.
Now, it is well known what kind of success Bird had in his legendary NBA career. His impact on the league was felt immediately. During his rookie year he helped flip the Celticsfrom a 29-53 record, to an NBA-best 61-21 record.
[h=4]Who will be remembered as the greater player when it's all said and done?[/h]<form action="http://bleacherreport.com/polls/create" method="post" id="poll-vote-form"><label style="display: block; font-size: 14px; padding: 5px 0px;"><input type="radio" name="vote" value="choice0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px;"> Dirk Nowitzki</label><label style="display: block; font-size: 14px; padding: 5px 0px;"><input type="radio" name="vote" value="choice1" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px;"> Larry Bird</label>
He was elected to the All-Star team in each of his full 12 seasons that he played. He was elected league MVP three consecutive years, a feat only matched by Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain.
He has garnered three championship rings while winning two finals MVP awards. For his career, Bird averaged 24.3 points, 10 rebounds and 6.3 assists per game all while shooting 50 percent from the floor.
In the modern NBA, where athletes are stronger, bigger, faster, more athletic and just plain better than 30 years ago and evolving as we speak, Nowitzki has career averages of 23 points and 8.4 rebounds per game.
How about Dirk in the clutch?
His playoff stats put him in elite company. He is averaging 25.6 points and 10.9 rebounds per game. Numbers only matched by greats such as Hakeem Olajuwon, Bob Petit and Elgin Baylor.
In elimination games he is averaging 28.4 points with 12.2 rebounds a game, while having scored 30 or more points in 13 of such games which is second-most in NBA history (Jerry West: 14).
He simply does things that no one else can do. He is the only player to record 150 three-pointers and 100 blocks in a single season.
Now for those who say Bird is better than Nowitzki, all usually have the same argument. Bird's three championship rings compared to Dirk's zero. Well, let's look at the supporting cast, shall we.
The three championship team rosters with which Bird won featured players such as Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Bob McAdoo, Nate Archibald and Bill Walton. Now what do all of these players have in common? That's right, they are all Hall of Fame inductees.
Now what kind of help has Dirk had? Potential Hall of Famer Steve Nash? Sure. Michael Finley. Eh. A Jason Kidd who, due to the law of age, has been on a steady decline?
The choice has to be pretty clear. Dirk Nowitzki may be a seven-footer but he is definitely not your ordinary lanky, awkward, uncoordinated traditional center. He is a point forward with indefensible moves.
Put a big on him and he'll make you pay from the outside. Put a quicker perimeter guy on him, and he will eat him up inside using his wide array of moves. He will post you up, shoot one-footed fadeaways off the backboard or sink one three-pointer after another if you dare him. Pick your poison
With all due respect to one of the NBA's finest, Mr. Larry Bird, who was in a class of his own. The title of "The White Mamba" between these two, has got to go to Dirk Nowitzki.
On one hand, you have the uber-physical and fundamentally sound years of the '80s which rejuvenated a struggling NBA. And on the other hand, you have the modern NBA where it's more about finesse, isolation plays and endorsement deals.
To be clear, comparing these two greats is like comparing a million dollar diamond to a million dollar bar of solid gold. You really can't go wrong either way.
While Larry Bird has multiple championship rings to solidify his status as an all-time great, Nowitzki's uncanny ability to score is second to none. His seven-foot frame combined with his shooting technique is indefensible, being that he releases his shot above his head.
The biggest reason the name Bird comes up when talking about Nowitzki and vice versa, is merely because of the color of their skin.
Let's take a trip back in time to where both of these guys started setting themselves apart from their peers as young aspiring basketball greats.
While "The Hick from French Lick" grew up on a farm in a very rural environment, he started setting himself apart as a sophomore in high school, and eventually left Spring Valley High School as the all-time leading scorer. Now you tell me what the competition could possibly have been like in the early '70s in an area that had more farm animals than the human population.
Getty Images/Getty Images
Nowitzki's teen years were spent competing against grown men, being that he turned pro as a 16-year-old, playing for Germany's second-division team DJK Wuerzburg. He was still able to set himself apart from the competition which eventually earned him an invitation to the ever so prestigious Nike Hoop Summit.
Neither young bright stars Rashard Lewis nor Al Harrington could contain Nowitzki as he dominated USA's finest leading the International side with 33 points and 14 rebounds.
Sure, Bird led Indiana State to a 33-1 record in his senior season at ISU. And yes, of course he left ISU as the NCAA's fifth-leading scorer at the time. But how can you compare the talent and level of competition of the mid-'70s Missouri Valley Conference, to that of modern day AAU competitions and exposure of international talent that face off?
From Nike Hoop Summits to Adidas ABCD camps the competition is fierce and only the best end up on top.
Nowitzki was primed for the success he is currently having. And he has Holger Geschwinder to thank for it. Geschwinder laid the foundation for Nowitzki's yellow brick road. All Dirk had to do was stay on course.
Now, it is well known what kind of success Bird had in his legendary NBA career. His impact on the league was felt immediately. During his rookie year he helped flip the Celticsfrom a 29-53 record, to an NBA-best 61-21 record.
[h=4]Who will be remembered as the greater player when it's all said and done?[/h]<form action="http://bleacherreport.com/polls/create" method="post" id="poll-vote-form"><label style="display: block; font-size: 14px; padding: 5px 0px;"><input type="radio" name="vote" value="choice0" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px;"> Dirk Nowitzki</label><label style="display: block; font-size: 14px; padding: 5px 0px;"><input type="radio" name="vote" value="choice1" style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px;"> Larry Bird</label>
Submit Vote
vote to see results</form>He was elected to the All-Star team in each of his full 12 seasons that he played. He was elected league MVP three consecutive years, a feat only matched by Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain.
He has garnered three championship rings while winning two finals MVP awards. For his career, Bird averaged 24.3 points, 10 rebounds and 6.3 assists per game all while shooting 50 percent from the floor.
In the modern NBA, where athletes are stronger, bigger, faster, more athletic and just plain better than 30 years ago and evolving as we speak, Nowitzki has career averages of 23 points and 8.4 rebounds per game.
How about Dirk in the clutch?
His playoff stats put him in elite company. He is averaging 25.6 points and 10.9 rebounds per game. Numbers only matched by greats such as Hakeem Olajuwon, Bob Petit and Elgin Baylor.
In elimination games he is averaging 28.4 points with 12.2 rebounds a game, while having scored 30 or more points in 13 of such games which is second-most in NBA history (Jerry West: 14).
He simply does things that no one else can do. He is the only player to record 150 three-pointers and 100 blocks in a single season.
Now for those who say Bird is better than Nowitzki, all usually have the same argument. Bird's three championship rings compared to Dirk's zero. Well, let's look at the supporting cast, shall we.
The three championship team rosters with which Bird won featured players such as Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Bob McAdoo, Nate Archibald and Bill Walton. Now what do all of these players have in common? That's right, they are all Hall of Fame inductees.
Now what kind of help has Dirk had? Potential Hall of Famer Steve Nash? Sure. Michael Finley. Eh. A Jason Kidd who, due to the law of age, has been on a steady decline?
The choice has to be pretty clear. Dirk Nowitzki may be a seven-footer but he is definitely not your ordinary lanky, awkward, uncoordinated traditional center. He is a point forward with indefensible moves.
Put a big on him and he'll make you pay from the outside. Put a quicker perimeter guy on him, and he will eat him up inside using his wide array of moves. He will post you up, shoot one-footed fadeaways off the backboard or sink one three-pointer after another if you dare him. Pick your poison
With all due respect to one of the NBA's finest, Mr. Larry Bird, who was in a class of his own. The title of "The White Mamba" between these two, has got to go to Dirk Nowitzki.
