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Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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reagan was one of the dumb ones who didnt tax the top 10 percent and ran up the biggest deficit ever. you have to tax the top 10 percent to have a productive economy. simple as that. read up on reagan. everyone paints him to be some god and mccain said he wanted to be like him, but reagan ran up huge deficits until he realized he needed to tax the top 10 percent heavily.

who cares if its fair or not.

How many times do I have to tell you igoramuses who refuse to read the Constitution.

Reagan signed off on the budgets that Congress gave him - CONGRESS RAN UP THE BUDGET - not Reagan. You can fault Reagan for not vetoing the deficit spending budget - but not for creating it.

McCain has already said he'll shut down the government and use the bully pulpit to go to the American people with his issue to control Congressional spending without a tax increase -I haven't heard Obama say anything about controlling a runaway congress - he will raise taxes so that Congress can continue to spend, spend, spend.
 

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So the President has no real influence on these things? Then why are you blaming President Clinton?

Answering questions with questions? Look, Cincy went to bat for you and called you smart, please don’t tell me this is you being smart.

You obviously have never heard of the Glass-Steagall Act, or who repealed it, or what it has done to liberal <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region>.
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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What Was The Glass-Steagall Act? <!--printable = OFF --><!--printable = ON -->
by Reem Heakal


In 1933, in the wake of the 1929 stock market crash and during a nationwide commercial bank failure and the Great Depression, two members of Congress put their names on what is known today as the Glass-Steagall Act (GSA). This act separated investment and commercial banking activities. At the time, "improper banking activity", or what was considered overzealous commercial bank involvement in stock market investment, was deemed the main culprit of the financial crash. According to that reasoning, commercial banks took on too much risk with depositors' money. Additional and sometimes non-related explanations for the Great Depression evolved over the years, and many questioned whether the GSA hindered the establishment of financial services firms that can equally compete against each other. We will take a look at why the GSA was established and what led to its final repeal in 1999.

Reasons for the Act - Commercial Speculation
Commercial banks were accused of being too speculative in the pre-Depression era, not only because they were investing their assets but also because they were buying new issues for resale to the public. Thus, banks became greedy, taking on huge risks in the hope of even bigger rewards. Banking itself became sloppy and objectives became blurred. Unsound loans were issued to companies in which the bank had invested, and clients would be encouraged to invest in those same stocks.

Effects of the Act - Creating Barriers
Senator Carter Glass, a former Treasury secretary and the founder of the U.S. Federal Reserve System, was the primary force behind the GSA. Henry Bascom Steagall was a House of Representatives member and chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee. Steagall agreed to support the act with Glass after an amendment was added permitting bank deposit insurance (this was the first time it was allowed).

As a collective reaction to one of the worst financial crises at the time, the GSA set up a regulatory firewall between commercial and investment bank activities, both of which were curbed and controlled. Banks were given a year to decide on whether they would specialize in commercial or in investment banking. Only 10% of commercial banks' total income could stem from securities; however, an exception allowed commercial banks to underwrite government-issued bonds. Financial giants at the time such as JP Morgan and Company, which were seen as part of the problem, were directly targeted and forced to cut their services and, hence, a main source of their income. By creating this barrier, the GSA was aiming to prevent the banks' use of deposits in the case of a failed underwriting job.
The GSA, however, was considered harsh by most in the financial community, and it was reported that even Glass himself moved to repeal the GSA shortly after it was passed, claiming it was an overreaction to the crisis.

Building More Walls
Despite the lax implementation of the GSA by the Federal Reserve Board, which is the regulator of U.S. banks, in 1956, Congress made another decision to regulate the banking sector. In an effort to prevent financial conglomerates from amassing too much power, the new act focused on banks involved in the insurance sector. Congress agreed that bearing the high risks undertaken in underwriting insurance is not good banking practice. Thus, as an extension of the Glass-Steagall Act, the Bank Holding Company Act further separated financial activities by creating a wall between insurance and banking. Even though banks could, and can still can, sell insurance and insurance products, underwriting insurance was forbidden.
<!---->
<!---->Were the Walls Necessary? - The New Rules of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley ActThe limitations of the GSA on the banking sector sparked a debate over how much restriction is healthy for the industry. Many argued that allowing banks to diversify in moderation offers the banking industry the potential to reduce risk, so the restrictions of the GSA could have actually had an adverse effect, making the banking industry riskier rather than safer. Furthermore, big banks of the post-Enron market are likely to be more transparent, lessening the possibility of assuming too much risk or masking unsound investment decisions. As such, reputation has come to mean everything in today's market, and that could be enough to motivate banks to regulate themselves.

Consequently, to the delight of many in the banking industry (not everyone, however, was happy), in November of 1999 Congress repealed the GSA with the establishment of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which eliminated the GSA restrictions against affiliations between commercial and investment banks. Furthermore, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act allows banking institutions to provide a broader range of services, including underwriting and other dealing activities.

Conclusion
Although the barrier between commercial and investment banking aimed to prevent a loss of deposits in the event of investment failures, the reasons for the repeal of the GSA and the establishment of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act show that even regulatory attempts for safety can have adverse effects.
 

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What Was The Glass-Steagall Act?

Which President repealed this Act? yes you there in the back

Bush?

No...ok, how about you?

Bill Clinton?

Yes!! Bill Clinton. And what did Clinton do with the pen he used to kill that Act??

He gave it to Sandy Weill who framed it and keeps it in his office.

Right again, and who is Sandy Weill?

The chairman of Citigroup.

Whoa, Citigroup? Those dudes have more money than God. Now who bolted for a top position in Citigroup the week after Clinton stabbed this Act in the heart?

Umm, would that be Clinton's Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin?

Holy crap, you're like really smart and stuff. You must know who is one of the most major contributers to the Democrats.

Citigroup?

Now since all that has happened, we've encountered the same exact problems in the financial sector that were remedied by the.....anyone, anyone...Bueller?....Bueller??....Bueller???

Roosevelt is turning over in his grave.
 

I'm still here Mo-fo's
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How many times do I have to tell you igoramuses who refuse to read the Constitution.

Reagan signed off on the budgets that Congress gave him - CONGRESS RAN UP THE BUDGET - not Reagan. You can fault Reagan for not vetoing the deficit spending budget - but not for creating it.

McCain has already said he'll shut down the government and use the bully pulpit to go to the American people with his issue to control Congressional spending without a tax increase -I haven't heard Obama say anything about controlling a runaway congress - he will raise taxes so that Congress can continue to spend, spend, spend.

What's that you say willis? The POTUS is responsible for submitting a budget to begin with. It then goes to Congress and the various committees for adjustments (proposed), is then approved by the Congress and sent back to the POTUS for a decision: YES, if he doesn't like the budget spending added (or subtracted) he can do what?..........


Something your boy Dumbya had an excrutiatingly hard time doing......


















VETO the mutherfukker.

:ohno:


BTW, if you iz gonna insult us, at least spell the fukin thing right, you ignoramus
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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What's that you say willis? The POTUS is responsible for submitting a budget to begin with. It then goes to Congress and the various committees for adjustments (proposed), is then approved by the Congress and sent back to the POTUS for a decision: YES, if he doesn't like the budget spending added (or subtracted) he can do what?..........

Something your boy Dumbya had an excrutiatingly hard time doing......

VETO the mutherfukker.

BTW, if you iz gonna insult us, at least spell the fukin thing right, you ignoramus

You're right - the POTUS could veto the budget.

You want to remember that the budget is usually approved by Congress and submitted to the President at the last minute - the POTUS therefore has the choice to veto the budget and immediately shut down the government, or accept the budget as is and keep the government running.

You also want to remember that the Congress has made it a habit to give the President everything he asks for so that the President has no reason to reject any pork laden spending proposals.

I haven't said the President isn't innocent in any of this - I've continually pointed out that the Congress holds the purse strings - not the President - and both parties in the Congress are guilty of the runaway budget and deficit spending - the President is guilty of going along to get what he wants (such as funding for the war in Iraq).
 

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Answering questions with questions? Look, Cincy went to bat for you and called you smart, please don’t tell me this is you being smart.

Interesting response from the same guy who just an hour before had answered my question from post #47 with questions of his own (post # 51) :).

You obviously have never heard of the Glass-Steagall Act, or who repealed it, or what it has done to liberal <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region>.

No, I frankly admit that I do not know about the Glass-Steagall-Act or American High-Finance in general (what do you know about German financial history?). I thank Cincy for his kind words, but I am afraid he exaggerated. I'm actually not a really "successful" debater because, unlike most other persons here (and in general), I am aware that I'm not omniscient and I actually do listen to what others say because I might learn something.

However, I'm still waiting for your reasoning why Bush was apparently unable to get anything done in this sector in the past 8, sorry, 7.something years. You cannot honestly tell me "the most powerful man in the world" is not powerful enough to at least try to make the necessary changes. Show me what he tried and how Congress shot it down and I will concede your point. But unless you do that I choose to believe that Bush did not do everything in his power to prevent what happened recently.
And btw what you wrote is also not enough yet to convince me that repealing that Act is the only reason for the current events, especially the extent of them. I don't have enough knowledge of the respective circumstances to form a definite opinion but I find it hard to believe that removing that safe-guard is alone responsible, it seems obvious that there must have been lots of other errors to create a crisis this big. Perhaps you can enlighten me further?
 

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Interesting response from the same guy who just an hour before had answered my question from post #47 with questions of his own (post # 51) :).



No, I frankly admit that I do not know about the Glass-Steagall-Act or American High-Finance in general (what do you know about German financial history?). I thank Cincy for his kind words, but I am afraid he exaggerated. I'm actually not a really "successful" debater because, unlike most other persons here (and in general), I am aware that I'm not omniscient and I actually do listen to what others say because I might learn something.

However, I'm still waiting for your reasoning why Bush was apparently unable to get anything done in this sector in the past 8, sorry, 7.something years. You cannot honestly tell me "the most powerful man in the world" is not powerful enough to at least try to make the necessary changes. Show me what he tried and how Congress shot it down and I will concede your point. But unless you do that I choose to believe that Bush did not do everything in his power to prevent what happened recently.
And btw what you wrote is also not enough yet to convince me that repealing that Act is the only reason for the current events, especially the extent of them. I don't have enough knowledge of the respective circumstances to form a definite opinion but I find it hard to believe that removing that safe-guard is alone responsible, it seems obvious that there must have been lots of other errors to create a crisis this big. Perhaps you can enlighten me further?

I wasn't answering your question with a question, I was telling you what the correct question to ask was and we're not discussing German financial history. If we were I would just be reading and not making comments, know what I mean?

First of all, he was dealing with 9/11 and a war In Iraq, so it wasn't exactly front burner stuff.

Secondly, Democrats controlled Congress, what F'ing reform bill is going to come from them for him to sign when they already got what they wanted?

Thirdly, when corporations are reporting that everything is fine, no one is concerned about them going tits up in 12 hours. The problem was they were lying, lying until the very end. Again, Bush doesn't have a magical wand of hindsight he can wave to correct everything in the timeframe you need it to happen in, but rest assured he is cleaning up the mess someone else caused.

Lastly, it's not my problem you do not have enough knowledge, I'm not your teacher, it's way too much to explain in one post and my kids are home. If you're truly interested you will educate yourself and be a smarter person for it!
 

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I wasn't answering your question with a question, I was telling you what the correct question to ask was and we're not discussing German financial history. If we were I would just be reading and not making comments, know what I mean?

I know very well what you mean, but I happen to disagree. I'm aware that I'm not in a position to make learned judgements, but to apply common sense and to ask questions must be allowed, even if you don't like it.

First of all, he was dealing with 9/11 and a war In Iraq, so it wasn't exactly front burner stuff.

Oh no, 9/11 has to act as an excuse here, too? Pathetic.


Secondly, Democrats controlled Congress, what F'ing reform bill is going to come from them for him to sign when they already got what they wanted?

So whenever there is a problem the President has to wait for a reform bill coming from Congress?

Thirdly, when corporations are reporting that everything is fine, no one is concerned about them going tits up in 12 hours. The problem was they were lying, lying until the very end. Again, Bush doesn't have a magical wand of hindsight he can wave to correct everything in the timeframe you need it to happen in...

So you are saying Bush is not to blame because the corporations were lying that everything is fine. Why, then, do you think that Clinton is to blame for making a decision that was proposed by the same corporations who then were probably not even lying but were just too optimistic when they said everything would be fine?

... but rest assured he [Bush] is cleaning up the mess someone else caused.

Do you have anything substantial that makes you believe he can do it (successfully)?

Lastly, it's not my problem you do not have enough knowledge, I'm not your teacher, it's way too much to explain in one post and my kids are home. If you're truly interested you will educate yourself and be a smarter person for it!

I do understand that you don't feel like giving a lecture. But I can't fail to realise that you ignored some of my points so this remark looks a little like you're trying to take the easy way out.

To make it clear, I'm not here to attack Bush (at least not concerning this issue) and I have also no interest to defend Clinton. But I do believe that if you claim that the president who is in office for almost eight years is not at all to blame on a huge crisis then you will have to bring a lot more evidence to convince people.
 

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The deal is that Bushie didn't care how the market was manipulated ... he needed it to go up because he wanted to privatize social security ...

... and if the dumbass had his way, not only would the market be tanked, social security would have been fuckt too.
 

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I do understand that you don't feel like giving a lecture. But I can't fail to realise that you ignored some of my points so this remark looks a little like you're trying to take the easy way out.

Calling 9/11 an excuse and pathetic is well, pathetic. Let’s kill 4,000 Germans on a clear blue day and then see what concerns your PM has for the next few years, shall we? You should be cringing that you even let that fly.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

I don’t appreciate you coming into my thread uneducated and misinformed and asking me for an education so that you’re "up to speed". That’s YOUR responsibility, YOU make sure you’re up to speed. Don’t tell me I’M taking the EASY way out, why don’t YOU tell ME you’re going to take the HARD way IN and educate YOURSELF, you with me? You got some nerve saying the things you do.
<o:p> </o:p>
Any semi-intelligent person (even relying just on Google and Stupi-pedia) would have absolutely, positively ripped my argument about the Glass Steagall Act to shreds by now.
 

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"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
 

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Calling 9/11 an excuse and pathetic is well, pathetic. Let’s kill 4,000 Germans on a clear blue day and then see what concerns your PM has for the next few years, shall we? You should be cringing that you even let that fly.
I'm afraid now you really lose it. Even something like 9/11, bad as it was (I never implied otherwise), cannot be a reason for a government to stop doing its job. 9/11 was seven years ago. Are you really trying to tell me it's okay to lose track of everything else for seven years just because of a terror attack? If you do then yes, I call this an excuse, and a cheap one at that.
Btw Germany does not have a PM.

I don’t appreciate you coming into my thread uneducated and misinformed and asking me for an education so that you’re "up to speed". That’s YOUR responsibility, YOU make sure you’re up to speed. Don’t tell me I’M taking the EASY way out, why don’t YOU tell ME you’re going to take the HARD way IN and educate YOURSELF, you with me? You got some nerve saying the things you do.

I didn't come into your thread to be appreciated by you. If you make assertions like the one that Bush is not to blame for anything despite being the President for almost eight years then you have to expect that people will ask you to back this up. If you expect those who question an assertion of yours to go and find the justification for it themselves then you obviously have a strange idea of how argumentation works.


<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Any semi-intelligent person (even relying just on Google and Stupi-pedia) would have absolutely, positively ripped my argument about the Glass Steagall Act to shreds by now.

So the only argument you so far have provided to back up your assertion is so stupid that you yourself admit any semi-intelligent person can rip it to shreds?
I think I can rest my case then. :)
 

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So the only argument you so far have provided to back up your assertion is so stupid that you yourself admit any semi-intelligent person can rip it to shreds?
I think I can rest my case then. :)

Yes, you can rest your case....right on top of your big badge of ignorance that you are so proudly displaying.
 

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Yes, you can rest your case....right on top of your big badge of ignorance that you are so proudly displaying.

And here come the usual personal attacks when running out of arguments.

Well, actually you didn't even try much argumenting, your line was more like "I am right, and if you don't believe me you are stupid". Even Joe C. did better than that. :)
 

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And here come the usual personal attacks when running out of arguments.

Well, actually you didn't even try much argumenting, your line was more like "I am right, and if you don't believe me you are stupid". Even Joe C. did better than that. :)

You being ignorant is a fact, not a personal attack.

Me "argumenting" with you is useless. You’ve proven that you have learned absolutely nothing in the time since you admitted to me you were uneducated on the subject, yet you want to debate as if you were knowledgeable.

Do your homework and stop your whining that I’m not doing it for you. I’m done stooping myself to your level, it’s time for you to come up to mine.
 

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Me "argumenting" with you is useless. You’ve proven that you have learned absolutely nothing in the time since you admitted to me you were uneducated on the subject, yet you want to debate as if you were knowledgeable.

Do your homework and stop your whining that I’m not doing it for you. I’m done stooping myself to your level, it’s time for you to come up to mine.

Come up to your level? What level?
This is exactly what I am talking about. If you make an assertion which is questioned by others you have to explain why you believe your opinion is correct. If someone cannot follow your explanation because of lack of knowledge then, of course, he will have to do his homework before continuing to debate.

But so far you haven't explained anything, you just made an assertion and only backed it up with one argument that was, as you yourself later admitted, invalid. Still you see fit to call me ignorant. If that is your level then I hope I will never sink so low to be on par with you.
 

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Liberals know nothing about the economy or morals...

They want to steal your money and use it to buy votes. Obama seeking the mass poor/stupid vote ( and he has won it), preaching higher taxes for the rich, and "lower taxes" for the poor...

excuse me, most of the poor he talks about doesn't even pay taxes.
 

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you just made an assertion and only backed it up with one argument that was, as you yourself later admitted, invalid. Still you see fit to call me ignorant. If that is your level then I hope I will never sink so low to be on par with you.

Yes, but I did that on purpose to see if any of you "really smart people" would bother to refute it, but the silence I heard was deafening.

You get yourself smart enough to find my two inaccuracies and I'll entertain your obtuse questions. If not, you can enjoy the last word and I will enjoy the last laugh.
 

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Liberals know nothing about the economy or morals...

They want to steal your money and use it to buy votes. Obama seeking the mass poor/stupid vote ( and he has won it), preaching higher taxes for the rich, and "lower taxes" for the poor...

excuse me, most of the poor he talks about doesn't even pay taxes.

100% of the voters who cannot locate the state they live in on a map are voting for Obama.
 

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