Will T. Boone welch?

MackDonald · Jun 21, 2008

Willie99 said:
Willie99 just makes Willie99's arguments.

When will you ever understand this?

Doc Mercer, on the other hand, does nothing but cut and paste other peoples' words, usually from disrespected left wing hate sites.

We are different in every way possible, thank you very much.

You aren't saying that "Old Doc Mercer" isn't for real, are you?

Maybe he his is like that guy in the "Wizzard of Oz" movie turning the knobs on those machines behind those curtains. :icon_conf

Either way, all this "horseshit' will be sorted out at the Rx Bash
We'll know by whether he "shows up" pure and simple.

Willie99 · Jun 21, 2008

doc mercer said:
Wllie99 also claims Bush was not AWOL and yet there was not one person
that can recall Bush showing up ... out of I believe 700 folks ....

NOT ONE!!!

Did we have this conversation :think2:

You certainly have a powerful imagination.

Evidently, Doc suffers from that invisible friend talking to me syndrome too.

Doc, does your psychiatrist give volume discounts?

docmercer--banned · Jun 21, 2008

A SIMPLE but EFFECTIVE ADV

REMEMBER .... UNPROTECTED
SEX AND YOU MAY HAVE
A WILLIE99 ON YOUR HANDS ...
WHY TAKE THE RISK?

punter · Jun 21, 2008

Willie99 said:
Maybe because 5 boats stayed behind and observed the events, while one boat fled the scene, then returned to the scene to talk about what they think might have happened while they were down river.

Punter evidently believes the service men that were not on Kerry's boat were all bought but the service men on Kerry's boat were the only ones that couldn't be bought.:think2:

What were you saying about reasoning with people?

Great witness only one was there.

Truth of allegations
A major part of the SBVT controversy centered on the group's testimony. Among the first to question the first ad was Republican Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, Vietnam veteran, and former POW. He said, "I condemn the [SBVT] ad. It is dishonest and dishonorable. I think it is very, very wrong".[27] As a naval aviator in Vietnam, McCain had no firsthand knowledge of Kerry's service. The SBVT statements were accompanied by sworn affidavits, although one affiant, Al French, later admitted he had no firsthand knowledge of what he had sworn to.[50]
The first SBVT ad was contradicted by the statements of several other veterans who observed the incidents, by the Navy's official records, and, in some instances, by the contemporaneous statements of SBVT members themselves.
Several major newspapers were also skeptical of the SBVT allegations. For example, a New York Times news article stated, "on close examination, the accounts of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth prove to be riddled with inconsistencies."[51] ABC News's The Note opined, "the Swift Boat ad and their primary charges about Kerry's medals are personal, negative, extremely suspect, or false."[52] Regarding the medal dispute, a Los Angeles Times editorial[53] stated, "Not limited by the conventions of our colleagues in the newsroom, we can say it outright: These charges against John Kerry are false." The editorial argued this position on the basis that "Kerry is backed by almost all those who witnessed the events in question, as well as by documentation." On August 22, 2004 The Washington Post reported: "An investigation by The Washington Post into what happened that day suggests that both sides have withheld information from the public record and provided an incomplete, and sometimes inaccurate, picture of what took place. But although Kerry's accusers have succeeded in raising doubts about his war record, they have failed to come up with sufficient evidence to prove him a liar."[54]
The ABC television show Nightline traveled to Vietnam and interviewed Vietnamese who were involved in the battle for which Kerry was awarded the Silver Star. These witnesses disputed O'Neill's charge that there "was little or no fire" that day; they said that the fighting was fierce.[55] SBVT supporters question whether these witnesses are reliable because they spoke "in the presence of a Communist official",[56] but their account of enemy fire is substantially the same as that previously given by another former VC to an AP reporter[57] and by the American witnesses, including the only SBVT member who was actually present that day, Larry Clayton Lee.[58][59][60][61]
Jerome Corsi has said that a picture of Kerry's 1993 visit to Vietnam hangs in the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City as a gesture of "honor" by the Communists "for his contribution to their victory over [the] United States",[62][63] and John O'Neill has stated that Kerry "is in the North Vietnamese war museum as a hero... . one of the heroes who caused them to win the war in Vietnam".[64] The statement is also repeated in "Unfit for Command" (pp 167-174). However, Josh Gerstein of the New York Sun stated in this regard:
<TABLE class=cquote2 style="BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 40px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; COLOR: #b2b7f2; PADDING-TOP: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: serif; TEXT-ALIGN: left" vAlign=top width=20>“</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 4px; PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top>While the museum clearly honors opponents of the war from America and other countries, it is not clear that the photo of Mr. Kerry is part of that tribute. The picture of the senator hangs among a set of photos devoted to the restoration of diplomatic relations between America and Vietnam in the 1990s. It was apparently taken as Kerry took part in a delegation President Clinton sent to Hanoi in 1993. Other photos nearby show visits during that period by former American officials who played key roles in the Vietnam War, including a Navy admiral who has since died, Elmo Zumwalt, and a defense secretary, Robert McNamara. A secretary of state during Clinton’s term, Warren Christopher, is also shown meeting Vietnamese officials
</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 40px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; COLOR: #b2b7f2; PADDING-TOP: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: serif; TEXT-ALIGN: right" vAlign=bottom width=20>”</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top>

<CITE style="FONT-STYLE: normal">— Josh Gerstein[65]</CITE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
In this connection, the webpage Corsi and another anti-Kerry veteran originally published on the Kerry museum photo contained the picture of Robert McNamara's 1995 meeting with General Giap, who was misidentified as "Mao Tse-Tung".[1](Photo #10).
In addition, John O'Neill said that in 1971 John Kerry "wanted to abandon ship and leave the POWs [in Vietnam]" and that "[o]n the Dick Cavett show and elsewhere, John Kerry‘s position was that we should accept the Madame Binh seven-point proposal, which called for unilateral withdrawal, setting a date after which at some future time, we‘d negotiate the return of the POWs. So we would set a date. We would withdraw and then we would begin to discuss how to bring them home".[66] However, in the Cavett debate, Kerry actually said:
<TABLE class=cquote2 style="BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 40px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; COLOR: #b2b7f2; PADDING-TOP: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: serif; TEXT-ALIGN: left" vAlign=top width=20>“</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 4px; PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top>Now, if we were to set a date for withdrawal from Southeast Asia, we can – the Vietnamese, first of all, have said it will be settled prior to the arrival of that date, but we can set a time limit on that. If the prisoners of war aren't back prior to the arrival of that date, then I think we would have – for the first time in all of our history in Vietnam we would have a legitimate reason for taking some kind of reaction to it.</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 40px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; COLOR: #b2b7f2; PADDING-TOP: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: serif; TEXT-ALIGN: right" vAlign=bottom width=20>”</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top>

<CITE style="FONT-STYLE: normal">— John Kerry[67]</CITE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Early in the advertising campaign, Time magazine surveyed public credence in the SBVT advertisements among those who viewed them. The poll, conducted August 24 through 26, showed that about one-third of viewers believed there was at least "some truth" to the allegations. Among swing voters, about one-fourth felt there was any truth to the ads.[68]
More recently, an early member of the group, Steve Hayes, stated that he came to believe that the group was twisting Kerry's record, and broke with the group and voted for Kerry. Hayes told the New York Times:

The mantra was just 'We want to set the record straight,' Mr. Hayes said this month. It became clear to me that it was morphing from an organization to set the record straight into a highly political vendetta. They knew it was not the truth.

Hayes also told the New York Times that he provided a long interview to Kerry's supporters, backing their version of the incident for which Kerry received the Bronze Star.[69]

[edit] Connections with Republicans

SBVT characterized itself as a non-partisan group both in the legal sense and in spirit, yet several prominent individuals who assisted SBVT also have had close ties to the Republican Party. According to information released by the IRS on February 22, 2005, more than half of the group's reported contributions came from just three sources, all prominent Texas Republican donors: Houston builder Bob J. Perry, a longtime supporter of George W. Bush, donated $4.45 million, Harold Simmons' Contrans donated $3 million, and T. Boone Pickens, Jr. donated $2 million. Other major contributors included Bush fundraiser Carl Lindner ($300,000), Robert Lindner ($260,000), GOP contributor Aubrey McClendon ($250,000), George Matthews Jr. ($250,000), and Crow Holdings ($100,000).[70][71][72]
The initial communications consultant for SBVT was Merrie Spaeth, a Reagan administration press officer and a volunteer consultant to Ken Starr in the Clinton impeachment; she was also a spokesperson for "Republicans for Clean Air," a 527 group opposing John McCain's 2000 presidential campaign and funded by Bush supporters who also helped fund SBVT.[73][74] John E. O'Neill — the primary author of Unfit for Command and a key player in the formation of SBVT — donated over $14,000 to Republican candidates. He co-operated with the Nixon White House in opposing Kerry in 1971, and seconded Nixon's nomination at the 1972 Republican national convention.[75][76]
Retired Admiral William Schachte, a principal source for the SBVT allegations about Kerry's first Purple Heart, has donated to both of Bush’s presidential campaigns. Schachte was also a lobbyist for FastShip, a firm that recently announced it was receiving $40 million in federal funding for one of its projects. In addition, Schachte's lobbying firm associate, David Norcross, was chairman of the 2004 Republican convention.[77] Chris LaCivita, Political Director of the National Republican Senatorial Committee in 2002,[78] works as a private contractor providing media advice for SBVT.[79]
The SBVT postal address was registered to Susan Arceneaux, treasurer of the Majority Leader's Fund, a PAC closely tied to the former Congressional leader, Republican Dick Armey.[80]
Republican activist Sam Fox's donation of $50,000 to SBVT during the 2004 campaign[81] caused a controversy when Bush nominated him to the position of ambassador to Belgium. Because the Democratic members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee indicated that they would not support his nomination, Bush withdrew the nomination; he appointed Fox to the position on April 4, 2007, while Congress was in recess.[82][83]
These ties, along with others (see below), led to suggestions in the popular press that SBVT was a front group for Republicans.[84][85][51]

[edit] Connections with the Bush campaign

The Bush campaign became part of the general SBVT controversy when McCain condemned the first SBVT ad, and said, "I hope that the president will also condemn it." The Bush campaign did not condemn SBVT or the SBVT ads. The campaign did not endorse the group either, stating "We have not and we will not question Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam."[86] Kerry was dismissive of this statement, saying, "Of course, the President keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that."[87] Kerry also alleged that SBVT was "a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the President won’t denounce what they’re up to tells you everything you need to know — he wants them to do his dirty work".[88] When pressed on the issue, President Bush called for an end to all 527 group political advertisements, and challenged Kerry to do the same.[89]
Critics and the Kerry campaign pointed to several specific connections between SBVT and the Bush campaign. The Kerry campaign asserted that Bush campaign headquarters in Florida distributed fliers promoting SBVT events, a charge the Bush campaign denied.[90] Kenneth Cordier, former vice-chair of Veterans for Bush/Cheney (in 2000) and volunteer member of the Bush campaign veterans steering committee, appeared in the second SBVT advertisement. The Bush campaign asked him to resign and stated that it had been unaware of his SBVT involvement.[91]
On August 25, 2004, Benjamin Ginsberg, the top election lawyer to the Bush campaign on campaign finance law, also resigned after it was learned that SBVT was one of his clients. Ginsberg stated that he was withdrawing to avoid being a distraction to the campaign. He declared that he had acted "in a manner that is fully appropriate and legal,"[79] arguing that it was not uncommon or illegal for lawyers to represent campaigns or political parties while also representing 527 groups. He also maintained that he did not disclose to the Bush campaign that he was simultaneously representing the SBVT group. After leaving the Bush campaign, Ginsberg retained his status as counsel to SBVT.
In January 2005, Governor Jeb Bush, the President's brother and Florida chairman for his 2004 campaign,[92] sent a letter to SBVT member and former POW Bud Day, thanking him for his "personal support of my brother in his re-election." In addition, Governor Bush said of the SBVT:

"As someone who truly understands the risk of standing up for something, I simply cannot express in words how much I value their willingness to stand up against John Kerry."[69][93]

In summary I will say that the repubs did themselves proud as a lying bunch of very evil people.

Mistermj · Jun 21, 2008

Willie99 said:
People who were eyewitnesses say he is a liar too. You're choosing one class of vets over another. I never said anybody other than JFK was a liar, I am saying that it's possible to have different recollections of events under the heat of battle, and that the people who remained at the battle site are more likely to have a more accurate recollection.

Kerry's immediate superior officer and the Dr that treated his injuries at the site did not recommend his third purple heart, somebody up the chain of command did.

Do you think it's a tad bit strange for somebody to receive three purple hearts for three superficial wounds in three months time?

These events combined with is lies about his service on the Senate floor just make me question the accuracy of anything he says. If that's unreasonable, so be it.

This is a guy that brought a camera and "scripts" to Viet Nam...:lol:

punter · Jun 21, 2008

Believe nothing a repug says.

docmercer--banned · Jun 21, 2008

Look who behind the Swift Boat Liars:

Contact: Craig McDonald, 512-472-9770

FACT SHEET:
Bob Perry - The Man Behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

Austin, TX: Bob Perry, a major Texas donor to the Republican Party, President Bush, Republican candidates, and conservative, pro-business political committees has contributed $200,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group attacking John Kerry’s Vietnam service.

The Houston-based Perry owns Perry Homes, one of the state’s largest homebuilders with reported revenues of $420 million in 2002. While an active political donor since the mid-1980’s, over the past three years Perry has eclipsed the giving of Texas’ elite money men and positioned himself as the largest single political donor in Texas giving candidates and committees more than $5.2 million since 2000.

Perry worked with Karl Rove as early as 1986 when Perry served as Campaign Treasurer for Republican gubernatorial candidate William Clements and Rove served as a campaign consultant and fundraiser.

Highlights of Perry’s political contributions:
Perry contributed $46,000 to George W. Bush’s 1994 and 1998 campaigns for Texas Governor. He has contributed the maximum allowable $2,000 to Bush’s current reelection.

Perry was the largest individual contributor to the Texas Republican Party during the recent 2002-election cycle (calendar 2001 & 2002) giving $905,000.

Perry is Republican Governor Rick Perry’s (no relation) largest patron, having contributed $225,000 since 2001.

Perry was the largest individual contributor to Republican Lt. Governor David Dewhurst’s 2002 campaign, giving $115,000.

Perry was the largest individual contributor to Republican Attorney General Greg Abbott’s 2002 campaign, giving $387,600. Perry’s wife Doylene gave Abbott an additional $150,000.

Perry was the second largest individual contributor to Republican Comptroller Carole Strayhorn’s 2002 campaign, giving $100,000.

Perry was the largest contributor to Tom DeLay’s Texans for a Republican Majority PAC (TRMPAC) giving $165,000 in the 2002 election cycle. TRMPAC is currently the subject of a criminal investigation by a Travis Country grand jury for allegedly misusing corporate contributions in the 2002 state elections.

Perry was the single largest contributor to the Texas Association of Business’ PAC in the 2002, giving $105,000. The Association is also under criminal investigation for misuse of corporate funds in the 2002 Texas elections.

Perry contributed a total of $595,500 directly to the campaigns of 23 GOP legislative candidates in the 2002 cycle, including the 21-candidate slate supported by TRMPAC.

Perry contributed $95,000 to Tom DeLay’s Republican Majority Issues PAC in 2001.

Perry has been a primary funder of efforts to limit civil liability in Texas, contributing $415,000 to Texans for Lawsuit Reform PAC, the state’s largest non-party political committee.

Sources: Campaign filings with the Texas Ethics Commission, IRS & FEC. Reports published by Texans for Public Justice and news accounts.
Texans for Public Justice is a non-partisan research organization that tracks money in Texas politics.

punter · Jun 22, 2008

Willie99 said:
"Paid witnesses" :lol:

The crews of the five boats that stayed and secured the site for their friends probably have a better recollection than the crew of the commander that fled the scene, yes. Is that so hard to figure out?

Since Kerry is a decorated and documented liar, even telling fish tales on the Senate floor, he has zero credibility.

As for the timing of any response, I have no concern about that. It don't matter to me since I expect people to have lives. Seems like that was an issue for you however.

I want to apologize to you for my "dumb & dumber" comment. It was collateral damage of my mocking of the troll. I don't agree with you on just about anything, but I don't disrespect you the way I disrespect trolls.

Good luck on your wager.

I assume that you by now have read the copy and paste from Wikipedia and know that your post was totally false.

How does it make you feel to know that you are passing on republican lies that were used to defame a decorated veteran so that a warmongering idiot could rule our country?

MackDonald · Jun 22, 2008

punter said:
I assume that you by now have read the copy and paste from Wikipedia and know that your post was totally false.

How does it make you feel to know that you are passing on republican lies that were used to defame a decorated veteran so that a warmongering idiot could rule our country?

Kerry was decorated and then he threw those decorations away.
I was never able to figure that one out.

punter · Jun 22, 2008

Protest of the war.

A nobel thing in my opinion.

docmercer--banned · Jun 22, 2008

He threw them away ....

Who can blame him after listening to over 150 Vets talk about the rapes
and other shit that went down

punter · Jun 22, 2008

Willie, are you going to ignore your faulty post and hope it goes away?

punter · Jun 24, 2008

Willie99
Patriots, Huskies, Apple Pie and Huckabee will return

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Home of Foxwoods, Mohegan Sun & Looney Libs
Posts: 7,412

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't answer a question, you can't debate

Since your into answering questions today.

docmercer--banned · Jun 24, 2008

Great job by Punter !!!

Willie99 · Jun 24, 2008

Punter, what did Wiki prove and why?

The Wiki author himself appears to have his own bias in the story, thus his one sided presentation.

But what of my facts do you think it disproves? Like doc, you post a whole lot of shit which others have to sift through to try and figure out what you're saying.

What do you think it disproves and why?

I never run from any issue ever, no need to, so get a fucking clue already. How childish it is to sit by your computer and say "they didn't respond in 5 minutes already". I have to support my family the the base of the Democratic party y'know. Plus with doc spamming his ignorant nonsense 19 hours a day (literally), it's easy to overlook a post and / or a thread. I answer 100% of all questions aksd of me, not like the fucking

.000 crowd.

steaktartar · Jun 24, 2008

Willie99 said:
Punter, what did Wiki prove and why?

The Wiki author himself appears to have his own bias in the story, thus his one sided presentation.

But what of my facts do you think it disproves? Like doc, you post a whole lot of shit which others have to sift through to try and figure out what you're saying.

What do you think it disproves and why?

I never run from any issue ever, no need to, so get a fucking clue already. How childish it is to sit by your computer and say "they didn't respond in 5 minutes already". I have to support my family the the base of the Democratic party y'know. Plus with doc spamming his ignorant nonsense 19 hours a day (literally), it's easy to overlook a post and / or a thread. I answer 100% of all questions aksd of me, not like the fucking

.000 crowd.

edgy

Willie99 · Jun 24, 2008

punter said:
Believe nothing a repug says.

Naivety, plain & simple. What more needs to be said?

:lol:

Willie99 · Jun 24, 2008

steak tartar said:
edgy

I have multiple personalities, and little patience for obnoxious ignorance.

How's that for edgy? :thumbsup:

Willie99 · Jun 24, 2008

punter said:
Willie99
Patriots, Huskies, Apple Pie and Huckabee will return

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Home of Foxwoods, Mohegan Sun & Looney Libs
Posts: 7,412

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't answer a question, you can't debate

Since your into answering questions today.

Furthermore

it's doc troll that challenges everyone to a debate anytime / anywhere as he avoids every question aksd of him.

it's gotta be the genes

:smoker2:

JudgeWapner · Jun 24, 2008

He served and came under fire. That's enough to gain my respect.

Will T. Boone welch?

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