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for any interested-- a huge thread at golfwrx on LIV, 170 pages deep lol. Some interesting posts/takes.

that forum is moderated, political nonsense is sent to trash just a heads up

RBC Canadian Open tomorrow!!!!!! St Georges is a classical older course, tree lined . rain Monday here in TO, Tuesday as well. Forecast is rain Thursday, but Friday should be awesome. I'm there on Friday :cool:
Hahahahaha

Yo, that place is a bunch of fucking pissy old grannies. My god they take their safe space way too seriously over there. Can we lead the charge with the Devils Misfits of the RX and just go ambush these sensitive old pricks over there?

I couldn’t get past the one post I read. Some new guy trying to talk liv golf and they put him in timeout because apparently he wasn’t branded at the biker club meeting yet with just 9 post.
 

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lol, um okay

tell it to the owners of the site.
 

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lol, um okay

tell it to the owners of the site.
Tell the owners of golfwrx what? It’s comedy brilliance viewing a bunch of country club snobs arguing over 1st world problems on what to do if a new member is cheating by improving his lie when they don’t have video footage? The Rules/etiquette forum is a hoot. Definitely a safe space over there for some sensitive golf snobs
 

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guess every forum has its niche, here likely angry, politically crazed old grannies...... mostly?

glad they moderate there, who the fuck wants to read political opinions 24/7, its a golf forum

btw- the demographics of posters there is not confined to grandpas. The thread with Jr golfers gets more action than this place
 

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Rory; 'for the game in general, it's a shame that it's going to fracture the game'

got to see how this plays out. If LIV members cant play at the majors well, fractured indeed


it's a windfall for players. Golf is huge globally nowadays, just look at the make-up of The PGA tour and esp., the LPGA Tour. The Saudi's are flaunting their money, flexing the biceps. Kinda ironic that the country that prides itself as capitalistic is now cryin' foul , lol. Norman aint no fool , expansion next yr likely to non-traditioanal golf countries.....beat the PGA tour to it...........the Saudi's makin' friends around the globe :)
 

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JT:

“It’s a bummer,” Thomas said. “I’ve thought a lot about it, and people are entitled to choose as they wish. I don’t dislike DJ now. I don’t think he’s a bad dude. I’m not going to treat him any differently. He’s entitled to choose as he wishes.”

“I think that the day and age that we live in now, it’s just so negative that you see it in everything,” Thomas said. “Sports, politics, whatever it is – if you disagree with someone, you just feel that you’re entitled to hate them and talk bad about them and just bash their decision, when everybody’s entitled to their own opinion.

“It doesn’t make him a bad person. Now, I’m disappointed and I wish that he and others wouldn’t have done it, but that’s their decision. I’ve said it all along: Guys can do as they wish. If they want to go, they can go. If they want to stay, they can stay.”
 

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annnnnnnnndddddddd the plot thickens. USGA is not banning LIV members, those that qualified are in for the US Open. So much for human rights concerns, LOL! The PGA Tour? they dont got your back. What a debacle

Phil Mickelson is in for next week,- the 121st US Open at The Country Club , Brookline, Massachusetts

hecklers goin' to have a field day....FORE LEFT!!!!!!!!!!
 

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‘This Is Uncomfortable’: Saudi Arabia Upends Genteel World of Pro Golf

By promising top players multimillion-dollar paydays to join its new tour, the kingdom moved beyond investing in a sport and instead made a play for control of one.


By Tariq Panja NYT
June 9, 2022Updated 10:00 a.m. ET
LONDON — The golf champions were settled in their chairs at a news conference to promote their new Saudi-financed tournament when a reporter raised the uncomfortable question of the oil-rich kingdom’s human rights record. The 2010 U.S. Open champion, Graeme McDowell, to the obvious relief of the players sitting alongside him, took it on.
“If Saudi Arabia want to use the game of golf as a way for them to get to where they want to be, and they have the resources to accelerate that experience,” McDowell said, “I think we’re proud to help them on that journey.”
That journey, though, is the point: The Saudi-funded project, called the LIV Golf Invitational Series and which kicked off on Thursday at an exclusive club outside London, represents nothing less than an attempt to supplant the elite level of an entire sport, taking place in real time, with golf’s best players cast as the prize in a high-stakes, billion-dollar tug of war.
On Thursday, the PGA Tour answered that threat by suspending every player who took part in the London event and, in a move surely aimed at dissuading further defections, by vowing to do the same for any pro who joins later. In a letter to tour players laced with contempt for the renegade pros, the PGA Tour’s commissioner, Jay Monahan, said they were “no longer eligible to participate” in events on the tour or any of its affiliates.


Unlike the vanity purchase of a European soccer team or the hosting of a major global sporting event, Saudi Arabia’s foray into golf is no mere branding exercise, not just another example of what critics say is a reputation-cleansing process that some deride as the “sportswashing” of its global image.

Instead, Saudi Arabia’s sudden entry into golf is part of a layered approach by the kingdom — not just through investments in sports but also in spheres like business, entertainment and the arts — to alter perceptions of itself, both externally and internally, as more than just a wealthy, conservative Muslim monarchy.

Those investments have accelerated rapidly since 2015, when Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman began his ascent to become the de facto ruler and spearheaded a massive overhaul aimed at opening up the kingdom’s economy and culture. And while it remains unclear to what extent they will be financially profitable — the new golf series has no obvious pathway to recovering its investment — they provide a number of other benefits. For one, high-profile endeavors, in sports especially, put Saudi Arabia’s name in the news in ways not connected to its dismal human rights record, its stalemated military intervention in Yemen or the murder by Saudi agents of the Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi in 2018.

“It is consistent with the way the Saudis have been using sport over the past five years, to try to project an image of the new Saudi Arabia, to change the narrative away from Khashoggi and Yemen and to talk about Saudi Arabia in a more positive light,” said Kristian Coates Ulrichsen, who studies Gulf politics at the Baker Institute for Public Policy at Rice University.
But in staging some of the most lucrative tournaments in golf history — the winner’s share this week is $4 million, and the last place finished in each event is guaranteed $120,000 — Saudi Arabia is also relying on a proven strategy of using its wealth to open doors and to enlist, or in a cynic’s view, buy, some of the world’s best players as its partners.

Some of the touches at its debut on Thursday might have felt kitschy — red phone boxes, sentries dressed like British palace guards and a fleet of black cabs to deliver the players and their caddies to their opening holes — but there was no hiding what was at play: In its huge payouts and significant investment, the series’ Saudi backers have taken direct aim at the structures and organizations that have governed professional golf for nearly a century.

While the Saudi plan’s potential for success is far from clear — the series does not yet have a major television rights deal, nor the array of corporate sponsors who typically line up to bankroll PGA Tour events — its direct appeal to players and its seemingly bottomless financial resources could eventually have repercussions for the 93-year-old PGA Tour, which has threatened to ban the rebel players, as well as the corporations and broadcasters who have built professional golf into a multibillion-dollar business.
“It’s a shame that it’s going to fracture the game,” the four-time major champion Rory McIlroy said this week, adding, “If the general public are confused about who is playing where and what tournament’s on this week and, ‘Oh, he plays there and he doesn’t get into these events,’ it just becomes so confusing.”
The pros who have committed to play in the first LIV Series event this week have tried (not always successfully) to frame their decisions as principled ones solely about golf, or as decisions that would safeguard the financial future of their families. Yet in accepting Saudi riches in exchange for adding their personal sheen to its project, they have placed themselves at the center of a storm in which fans and human rights groups have questioned their motives; the PGA Tour is weighing punishments for them; and sponsors and organizations are cutting ties or at least distancing themselves.
 

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continued..

All of it has opened rifts in a sport already grappling with its own longstanding image problems related to opportunity, exclusivity and race, but one that reveres decorum, and professes to be so wedded to values like honor and sportsmanship that players are expected to assess penalties on themselves if they violate its rules.
Saudi Arabia is, of course, not the first country to use sports as a platform to burnish its global image. Its wealthy Gulf neighbors, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates and most notably Qatar, which will host soccer’s World Cup later this year, all have invested heavily in international sports over the past two decades.
But Saudi Arabia’s venture into golf may be the most ambitious effort yet by a Gulf country to undermine the existing structures of a sport: In effect, it is trying to use its wealth to lure players away from the most prominent tournaments and the most well-established circuit in golf, the PGA Tour, by creating what is an entirely new tour. Not that many of the players taking part this week were eager to talk about those motives.
McDowell admitted as much in his meandering answer to a question that, among other topics, raised the Saudi-led war in Yemen and its execution of 81 people on a single day in March. “We’re just here,” he said, “to focus on the golf.”

It has been, after all, a rocky start. Even before the first ball was struck this week at the Centurion Club just outside London, the cash-soaked LIV Series — financed by Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund — had become a lightning rod for controversy. One of its biggest signings, Phil Mickelson, provoked outrage in February when he praised the series as a “once-in-a-lifetime opportunity” even as he called Saudi Arabia’s record on human rights “horrible” and used an expletive to describe the country’s leaders as “scary.”
The project’s main architect, the former player Greg Norman, made things worse a few weeks later when he dismissed Saudi Arabia’s murder and dismemberment of Khashoggi by saying, “Look, we’ve all made mistakes.”

Most, but notably not all, of the world’s top players have rejected the new series out of hand: McIlroy, for example, derided the project as a money grab in February. And on Wednesday, while saying he understood the motivations of the players who had joined up, he made clear he would not take part.
“If it’s purely for money,” McIlroy said, “it never seems to go the way you want it to.”
Even the rare chances for LIV Series players to defend their decisions to reporters directly this week have often been tense. At a news conference on Wednesday, a group of players were asked if they would take part in a tournament in Vladimir V. Putin’s Russia or apartheid South Africa “if the money was right.” A day earlier, the Korean American player Kevin Na was caught on a live microphone saying, “This is uncomfortable,” as his news conference ended with a British reporter shouting over the moderator.
Most of the players, though, seem to have concluded that the money was just too good to pass up. The reported $150 million inducement to Johnson, the highest-ranked player to jump to the new series, would be more than double the total prize money he has earned on tour in his career. The prize money on offer to the last-place finisher at Centurion this week is $120,000, which is $120,000 more than coming last in a PGA Tour event is worth. The $4 million check for the winner is about three times the winner’s share at this week’s PGA Tour event, the Canadian Open.
The money, in fact, may be LIV Golf’s biggest lure at the moment: Two more major champions, Bryson DeChambeau and Patrick Reed, were said to be close to accepting similarly large paydays to join the series when it shifts to the United States this summer, including a visit to New Jersey for the first of two scheduled events at Donald Trump-owned courses.
Saudi Arabia’s embrace of golf is part of a wider focus on sport as a means for the kingdom to achieve the ambitious political and economic goals of the Saudi crown prince. Similar controversies involving Saudi interests have already stalked other sports, including boxing, auto racing and most notably international soccer.
But where previous Gulf ambitions often took the form of an investment in a sport, the sudden push into golf by Saudi Arabia appeared to be an effort to control the top level of an entire sport, at any cost. Tiger Woods, for example, reportedly turned down nearly $1 billion to participate in the LIV Series, and other top stars have at least had their heads turned.
Arguably the most high-profile, and perhaps the most controversial, figure, to join the series is Mickelson, a six-time major champion who was for years one of the PGA Tour’s most popular and marketable players. He has made no secret of the fact that his interest was tied to his contempt for the PGA Tour, which he accused of “obnoxious greed.”
Chastened by vociferous criticism of his headline-making remarks about Saudi Arabia earlier this year, and the decisions of several of his sponsors to sever ties with him, Mickelson on Wednesday re-emerged on the public stage but declined to provide details of his relationship with LIV or discuss the PGA.
“I feel that contract agreements should be private,” said Mickelson, who reportedly is receiving $200 million to participate.
Any hopes that Mickelson, his new colleagues or their new Saudi financiers may have had of the narrative shifting quickly to action on the course, though, are unlikely to be realized anytime soon.
“I don’t condone human rights violations at all,” Mickelson said in one of the more uncomfortable news conference moments in a week filled with them.Soon afterward, dressed in shorts and a windbreaker, he was off to the first tee, where he and a board member of the Public Investment Fund, Yasir al-Rumayyan, headlined the opening group in the first LIV Series Pro-Am.
 

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DJ, Phil, Sergio are great golfers but past their prime. The league is not playing the best courses and has no TV . It is not quite a Senior Tour but more like a Middle Age Crisis Tour. I think it will fold and the players will get their PGA privileges back. I don’t think the Saudi’s will get the desired respectability from this league. But they will get their privileged status back the old fashioned way….our oil addiction!
 

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How long are they going to play the human rights card? Concept seems different and maybe neat. Smaller field and team play concept. No longer do we see crap pga fields with Dirt McGirt Baddy Baddley guys who are just place holders in these 144 man fields.

Playing courses we never see. And it’s not some long drawn out season. So some good golfers want to get paid, who doesn’t.

The Korn Ferry has great tournament but hardly shown. Some serious talent out there. Golf is Golf and personally I have enjoyed some Korn Ferry tournaments over PGA. LPGA Over PGA tournaments. Once in a blue moon the senior guys put on some good golf. Early morning tournaments in Asia to Africa to Europe have some entertaining golf by ladies and men. Hell the college golf the past few years in Arizona for the championship has been intense great golf. Even college conference tournaments have been good golf. Much better than many PGA events.

If PGA wants to ban the guys so be it. I can see why. Just let em go. Increase prize $ and tournament structure in their own backyard. PGA is too stubborn to grow the game to please the same old white geezers with insurance, Rolex, Cadillac and hedge fund commercials. It’s a cult. They keep holding onto this gentleman game BS and we got arm chair TV officials calling in accessing stoke penalties because a lady bug landed on the ball and the golfer didn’t address the ball moved 1/4mm while he was scratching his balls.

Some fresh blood announcement would be nice also. Amanda bologna tits and Colt has HV3 join em for about 15 minutes at the Harbor Town and it was hands down refreshing and enjoyable getting different (younger) voices covering the event on the course.
 

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How long are they going to play the human rights card? Concept seems different and maybe neat. Smaller field and team play concept. No longer do we see crap pga fields with Dirt McGirt Baddy Baddley guys who are just place holders in these 144 man fields.

Playing courses we never see. And it’s not some long drawn out season. So some good golfers want to get paid, who doesn’t.

The Korn Ferry has great tournament but hardly shown. Some serious talent out there. Golf is Golf and personally I have enjoyed some Korn Ferry tournaments over PGA. LPGA Over PGA tournaments. Once in a blue moon the senior guys put on some good golf. Early morning tournaments in Asia to Africa to Europe have some entertaining golf by ladies and men. Hell the college golf the past few years in Arizona for the championship has been intense great golf. Even college conference tournaments have been good golf. Much better than many PGA events.

If PGA wants to ban the guys so be it. I can see why. Just let em go. Increase prize $ and tournament structure in their own backyard. PGA is too stubborn to grow the game to please the same old white geezers with insurance, Rolex, Cadillac and hedge fund commercials. It’s a cult. They keep holding onto this gentleman game BS and we got arm chair TV officials calling in accessing stoke penalties because a lady bug landed on the ball and the golfer didn’t address the ball moved 1/4mm while he was scratching his balls.

Some fresh blood announcement would be nice also. Amanda bologna tits and Colt has HV3 join em for about 15 minutes at the Harbor Town and it was hands down refreshing and enjoyable getting different (younger) voices covering the event on the course.
I was more interested in the lack of TV monies and sponsorships, not that the money is a problem in the kingdom.
I'm guessing the TV will come, I'm not so much in to the politics ..I just want to see the best players VS each other and would hate to see the old time tournaments fade away....
 

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DJ, Phil, Sergio are great golfers but past their prime. The league is not playing the best courses and has no TV . It is not quite a Senior Tour but more like a Middle Age Crisis Tour. I think it will fold and the players will get their PGA privileges back. I don’t think the Saudi’s will get the desired respectability from this league. But they will get their privileged status back the old fashioned way….our oil addiction!
I don’t think the Saudi need to try and expand if they do this. Keep it small never more than 8-10 tournaments over the year.

Sure some guys may be past their prime. But would you prefer Bison Old Big Dick Sergio Louie Fat Pat Na Na Na and some of the guys who may follow along in a 54 hole event and 48 golfers?

PGA covers like 5 golfers each round. Same old heads. And waters down fields with guys who have been on tour 25 years still missing cut after cut. Some events are absolutely trash as no golfers entered worth a damn.

Shrink the field with bigger purse and even the maybe past their prime once stars will possibly put on a good show and excitement.

LIV will fall imo if they press the issue and try and grow and grow and grow. Need to just stick to this as like a mini tour and avoid scheduling vs PGA big tournaments while letting guys come and play at their will. PGA maybe let’s tour guys have an option to play 2 events if they want. 48 man fields I doubt everyone is racing to play just any events
 

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I was more interested in the lack of TV monies and sponsorships, not that the money is a problem in the kingdom.
I'm guessing the TV will come, I'm not so much in to the politics ..I just want to see the best players VS each other and would hate to see the old time tournaments fade away....
Gotcha and agree a bit. Everything is always political. Wish they would stop with the human rights angle and just pony up and say this is about PGA maybe losing some money or getting shown up if liv produces some good tournaments

Few of my favorite tournaments never have the studs. Maybe 2-4 show up in top 20 max. But Heritage is a great course. Love the Deere also. The west coast swing I never watch because it’s football season. I think some of the older course tournaments will be fine as they don’t draw great fields anyway. However, imo they are some of the better tournaments.

And as far as best players, they don’t compete every week anyway. And you even have some great players who just don’t want to live in US and play.
 

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I never got into PGA special matchplay..Skins game ect, and I had little interest in Brady Vs Rodgers type of "Golf" Celebrates doing anything, Including acting repulses me...working with actors isn't fun.

It'll be interesting to see the way it plays out ..I do agree the PGA should let the dudes play a few a year and move on with the tournaments like always, without sanctioning individuals.
 

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Gotcha and agree a bit. Everything is always political. Wish they would stop with the human rights angle and just pony up and say this is about PGA maybe losing some money or getting shown up if liv produces some good tournaments

Few of my favorite tournaments never have the studs. Maybe 2-4 show up in top 20 max. But Heritage is a great course. Love the Deere also. The west coast swing I never watch because it’s football season. I think some of the older course tournaments will be fine as they don’t draw great fields anyway. However, imo they are some of the better tournaments.

And as far as best players, they don’t compete every week anyway. And you even have some great players who just don’t want to live in US and play.
Love Pebble beach tournaments ..I've played Spyglass a bunch...Monterey is dreamy this time of year.
 

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I never got into PGA special matchplay..Skins game ect, and I had little interest in Brady Vs Rodgers type of "Golf" Celebrates doing anything, Including acting repulses me...working with actors isn't fun.

It'll be interesting to see the way it plays out ..I do agree the PGA should let the dudes play a few a year and move on with the tournaments like always, without sanctioning individuals.
Ha hey now I dig the Brady events. I feel we can relate to their game. Plus they play some cool courses. The one in Montana I think 2 years ago was fun. Course was amazing. The course in Vegas just what 12 holes? Place was scenic and nice for what it was. Allen almost sinking that 90ft putt missing by 1/4 inch to tie was wild.

I don’t mind those events for a lil midweek evening entertainment. Especially when their game matches up with the average Joe in a way. Believe it was Thanksgiving back in the day they did the 4 man skins events. Norman Haas Faldo Chi chi. Just different and casual but fun. Again, saw great golf shots and a more inside the ropes feel.

Something PGA lacks is getting more inside the ropes with these guys. Believe it’s the Foreplay guys on YT who do casual play a hole with the big names. Pretty cool seeing the guys in their original personality justvtalking golf and giving tips. They seem way more personable outside the ropes doing that stuff. Good for the sport imo
 

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PB is just a stunning course! Icon of golf
first five at Spyglass playing toward the ocean...Unreal.
I've never played Pebble, Bucket list for sure.
I'd play today but we have our 7th day of rain this month...Nuts.


Have good day.
 

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