Clip Joint said:
Damn you Clip just when I was starting to think you were an okay dude.
Idaho has a ton of gun-loving folks but most of them are extremely well off and have their own ranches and such on 30 acres.
Big difference between gun-lovers in the country here in Idaho and gun-lovers in the country in South Carolina and such.
I will add this quick: my dislike of Wal-mart is not only derived from the aforementioned class, but also from what I have seen firsthand. My father and one of my uncles worked for Kimberly Clark (the company that makes Kleenex Cottenelle, and Huggies, among other things) for a long time (my dad worked there for 35 years and recently retired and my uncle still works there).
What happened to KC and has happened to countless other companies in the US is that they are forced to bow down to Wal-mart's demands, even if they are unrealistic, due to how large and widespread Wal-mart has become. For example, KC used to put x amount of diapers in one package (I don't know the exact number). Wal-mart, in an effort to attract more customers, told KC that they now had to put more diapers in each package, but would have to keep the same prices as before. Of course KC protested, but Wal-mart wouldn't budge. KC couldn't afford not to sell to Wal-mart, as Wal-mart is by far their biggest customer (something like 35-40% of all their products are sold to Wal-mart) and without them, KC would likely go bankrupt, or at least be forced to lay off thousands and thousands of jobs to stay afloat. The only way KC couls afford to meet Wal-mart's demands was to start moving some factories overseas and laying off workers in the US. Plants around here keep laying people off, and just recently KC announced they were going to lay off another 350 workers in addition to the few hundred others they had already laid off in the past few years. It's a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Either lay off 500 people in the US and rely on sweatshop labor overseas or lay off 2,000 and remain in the US. They were forced to pick the lesser of two evils. They have begun to cut benefit and retirement packages as well. The same has been done to many other companies throughout the US. As you can see, I have a dislike of Wal-mart on a personal level as well as on an ideological level. That is all.
What happened to KC and has happened to countless other companies in the US is that they are forced to bow down to Wal-mart's demands, even if they are unrealistic, due to how large and widespread Wal-mart has become. For example, KC used to put x amount of diapers in one package (I don't know the exact number). Wal-mart, in an effort to attract more customers, told KC that they now had to put more diapers in each package, but would have to keep the same prices as before. Of course KC protested, but Wal-mart wouldn't budge. KC couldn't afford not to sell to Wal-mart, as Wal-mart is by far their biggest customer (something like 35-40% of all their products are sold to Wal-mart) and without them, KC would likely go bankrupt, or at least be forced to lay off thousands and thousands of jobs to stay afloat. The only way KC couls afford to meet Wal-mart's demands was to start moving some factories overseas and laying off workers in the US. Plants around here keep laying people off, and just recently KC announced they were going to lay off another 350 workers in addition to the few hundred others they had already laid off in the past few years. It's a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Either lay off 500 people in the US and rely on sweatshop labor overseas or lay off 2,000 and remain in the US. They were forced to pick the lesser of two evils. They have begun to cut benefit and retirement packages as well. The same has been done to many other companies throughout the US. As you can see, I have a dislike of Wal-mart on a personal level as well as on an ideological level. That is all.
Johnny B said:
That same story has been repeated by many, many companies that work "with" WalMart.
I own the documentary "The High Cost of Low Price" Other than the opening story, it's pretty accurate. And they used to have a forum up at the movie's website that had many other people who worked at Walmart telling their own stories, and news from around America about Walmart and their buisness practices. You guys haven't really mentioned the labor violations yet, but those are numerous. Everything from forced "off the clock" overtime, to child labor violations, discrimination, and locking their employees in the stores overnight, and even that list isn't all!
All most people care about is low prices, and they could care less how they get them. As long at it doesn't affect them (at least for now).
Omni said:
Yep. Here's actually part of an interview with Jon Lehman, who worked as a store manager at Wal-mart for 17 years until he quit in 2001, disillusioned by Wal-mart's ethics:
So what you're saying is Wal-Mart's got all the leverage in the situation?
Yeah. So let's say I'm Black & Decker or whatever. I go to Wal-Mart in Bentonville. I go walk across the street or drive across the street, because the Wal-Mart buyer's calling me. He wants to negotiate pricing. So I go over there and sit down with the buyer, and he says: "I want you to make those cordless screwdrivers this year for less than you did last year. We bought 60 train carloads last year. We're going to buy 160 this year if you can sell them to us at this price."
And there is no saying no, because Wal-Mart already knows the cost of your raw materials, the cost of your production, the cost of your shipping, the cost of your everything. They know everything. …
And so what do these manufacturers do? They walk away, and, you know, I can envision these phone calls that take place back to their corporate: "You're not going to believe what Wal-Mart wants us to do." "What is it this time?" "Well, they want us to sell that same product that we sold them last year, but they want it at a 2 percent discount in cost this year." And they're already just making ends meet.
So now the company has to look at it and say: "We can't make it here in America anymore. We might have a union plant where we're paying you good, living, union wages. I think we need to close this plant, maybe move it over to China or move it down to Monterrey, Mexico. We've got NAFTA, so let's take advantage of it."
So you're saying Wal-Mart is shoving jobs out of America by the pressure it's putting on suppliers?
What I'm saying is we hear a lot of talk today in the media, and especially going into this campaign, that it's all about manufacturers exporting jobs and "Benedict Arnold CEOs" exporting jobs.
Well, I say look behind that veil. Let's look at the cause and effect here. Here we have the world's largest retailer. Now, they've got to have some effect on these manufacturers. Look behind the manufacturers. The manufacturers are trying to deal with this ... retailer out there ... that wants to look at their books, that wants to "partner" with them on these things.
So who's driving the process? … What does it look like to you? You've been inside Wal-Mart. You've seen it. You've talked to Wal-Mart buyers; you've seen suppliers; you've heard the story. ... You just said these companies are having trouble bargaining... I mean, it's pretty hard to escape the conclusion, isn't it, that Wal-Mart is a factor pushing the jobs to China?
Absolutely. The company's completed shifted its focus again from the founding principles of Sam Walton, who, by the way, used to really enjoy and take a lot of pride in what's called the "Buy America" program, "Made in America," "Bring it home to the USA." He was all about going to factories in America that were closing, like a flannel-shirt factory. I remember one example of that. They couldn't make flannel shirts in America as cheap[ly] as they could in China, so the factory closed. Three hundred-something jobs went down.
Well, Sam went to that owner of that manufacturer and said: "Look, if you'll make flannel shirts just for Wal-Mart exclusively for the next three years, I'll retool your plant. I'll give you a loan ... get your business up and going, and you just sell them to us." And that's what he was all about.
I recently heard a speech by Lee Scott, the CEO, and in his speech, what was disturbing to me is he said -- somebody questioned him about China: "Why are you doing so much business in China?" And he just kind of resigned himself to it and said: "Well, it's just the way it's got to be. This is a global economy now. We've got to do business with China. We have no other choice."
What happened to Sam Walton's founding principles? What happened to "Buy America," "Bring it home to the USA," good, American, union jobs? What happened to that?
I make six figures and my wife and I do most of our shopping at Walmart. Only fools are crazy enough to need to soothe their conscious by saying they don't shop there, while holding up their noses at it. I mean if you don't like it, fine go somewhere else, but what's up with the attitude? And all this BS about putting people out of business WTF??? Where is it in the Constitution we are all supposed to "support" mom and pop stores? If this is true sign me up and I will build hundreds of stores throughout small town America! I mean guaranteed profit, why wouldn't you do that? In the meantime I will choose to keep my money in my pocket and ignore the calls for virtual welfare paid out to the higher priced stores. Don't kid yourself, its nothing more than welfare to demand people pay more money to people who aren't deserving it.
Fact is business is business. No one feels sorry for these people except filmakers it seems. Go ask the locals and they will say sure these people were nice, but they much prefer overall to keep $100 in their pockets every couple weeks. Its not even close because that is the American way. We didn't create our economic way of life to stop and make sure everyone was making the money they "deserve". Now if you like the service and are willing to pay for it feel free to do so. Just don't ask others to do the same.
Fact is business is business. No one feels sorry for these people except filmakers it seems. Go ask the locals and they will say sure these people were nice, but they much prefer overall to keep $100 in their pockets every couple weeks. Its not even close because that is the American way. We didn't create our economic way of life to stop and make sure everyone was making the money they "deserve". Now if you like the service and are willing to pay for it feel free to do so. Just don't ask others to do the same.
It's a lot more complex than just "Business is business". You don't have to support mom and pop stores if you don't want to, but there are other stores out there that will give you a lower price than the mom and pops still without resorting to Walmart-like tactics. And that's totally ignoring all the large companies too who have moved their production overseas because of Walmart. It's not just about Mom and Pop shops by any stretch.
You have to understand that the low price you pay has a price also. And don't forget about their horrible labor practices as well, that's another reason not to shop there that has nothing to do with US jobs going overseas!
But like I said, most people don't care. They don't want to see anything wrong as long as they are getting the lowest price and saving a few bucks.
You have to understand that the low price you pay has a price also. And don't forget about their horrible labor practices as well, that's another reason not to shop there that has nothing to do with US jobs going overseas!
But like I said, most people don't care. They don't want to see anything wrong as long as they are getting the lowest price and saving a few bucks.
just the facts ma'am
Some facts about Wal-Mart
1. 1 in 3 Americans shop at a Wal-Mart or Sam's Club once a week.
2. Between 1997 and 1999, Wal-Mart was responsible for 5% OF GDP growth.
3.In FY 2006, Wal-Mart is projected to spend roughly $4.7 billion on associate BENEFITS. For perspective,
Some facts about Wal-Mart
1. 1 in 3 Americans shop at a Wal-Mart or Sam's Club once a week.
2. Between 1997 and 1999, Wal-Mart was responsible for 5% OF GDP growth.
3.In FY 2006, Wal-Mart is projected to spend roughly $4.7 billion on associate BENEFITS. For perspective,
just the facts ma'am
3. In FY 2006, Wal-Mart is projected to spend roughly $4.7 billion on associate benefits. For perspective, Wal-Mart’s net income for FY 2005 was $10.3 billion. (does mom and pop spend half net income on benefits?)
4. An independently-certified study found that Wal-Mart saves the average household more than $2,300 per year.(and that is a bad thing because...?)
5. Wal-Mart donated $22,000 and hour or $6 a second in 2005
3. In FY 2006, Wal-Mart is projected to spend roughly $4.7 billion on associate benefits. For perspective, Wal-Mart’s net income for FY 2005 was $10.3 billion. (does mom and pop spend half net income on benefits?)
4. An independently-certified study found that Wal-Mart saves the average household more than $2,300 per year.(and that is a bad thing because...?)
5. Wal-Mart donated $22,000 and hour or $6 a second in 2005
Just the facts huh? Trust me Presto, you don;t want to go there.
Walmart recently lauched a multi million dollar campaign to try and help their image, which includes the kinds of "facts" you mention, but they don't want you to know the real facts. There are lists out there several pages long of all the "facts" about Walmart and their health care system, and trust me it isn't pretty. (and as for the other facts, we all know they make lots of money and people shop there. No one is disputing that, and has little to do with the issues at hand about their business).
And I haven't even mentioned stuff like the parking lot crime issue, which having shown the movie to several people was probably the one fact people got the most pissed off about when they found out about the internal "study" and it's results. Or the environmental stuff, or the desecration of sacred ground to put up new stores. Hell, Wal-Mart tried to buy George Washington's Ferry Farm boyhood home so they could tear it down and put up a Walmart!!!!
Walmart recently lauched a multi million dollar campaign to try and help their image, which includes the kinds of "facts" you mention, but they don't want you to know the real facts. There are lists out there several pages long of all the "facts" about Walmart and their health care system, and trust me it isn't pretty. (and as for the other facts, we all know they make lots of money and people shop there. No one is disputing that, and has little to do with the issues at hand about their business).
And I haven't even mentioned stuff like the parking lot crime issue, which having shown the movie to several people was probably the one fact people got the most pissed off about when they found out about the internal "study" and it's results. Or the environmental stuff, or the desecration of sacred ground to put up new stores. Hell, Wal-Mart tried to buy George Washington's Ferry Farm boyhood home so they could tear it down and put up a Walmart!!!!
Kornholio said:
k-dog, the more i think about it...the more i think you're right. i had no business posting this. i feel really bad for people in this world who are struggling to survive...like those in darfur, for example. but, i never have much sympathy for people in this country who cant make it. i guess that's because i always thought that this is the land of opportunity and if you cant make it here, its because you made bad choices in life.
but, who am i to make that kind of judgement? i think its probably best for me to be thankful for what i have...and shut the hell up.
i personally have a love-hate relationship with walmart...i love their generic diapers...cant be beat....but i just groan when i walk in there and see 1000 people standing in line buying everything they can...even the express lane takes forever. and 1 day i had the day off on a weekday and decided to go thinking it would be better...oh no! either EVERYONE had that tuesday off...or NO ONE works!! wow, a true zoo-like experience. they do seem to have more toys at walmart too...i try to do more than diapers there...i mean if im gonna stand in line for 15-20 min, make it worth my while.
blue edwards said:
Yeah Blue, many people stuggling to survive in other countries as well as this one. We were fortunate enough to be born in one of the wealthiest countries in the world...but more than that we got breaks to whom we were born, and where we were born...if we were born black and in the ghetto, it would be a much different story for us. It is easy for us to get jaded. Sometimes I get so upset that I make no money, but at the same time, I am probably in the top 5% in the world. I have a nice house, a huge heated shop to run my business out of, a backer who bought tools for that shop. I have a ton to be thankful for but everyday I worry about money because it is so freaking tight. Truth is, since the babies, we spend more than we make. Hence the business I am starting up. But as promised, I have been provided for and my needs met.
I am glad you reconsidered what you posted, the people in Walmart are no different the you and I when it comes down to it. I know you know what I mean.
