Tyreke Hill to the Dolphins!!!

[Avocado33]

Brady/Moss is all time great as far as combo goes

Hill is a great player but his whole game is predicated on speed/quickness . He’s not a great route runner by any means . Very likely he declines/gets hurt at some point over next 4 years but worth it to give Tua a weapon to pair with Waddle

Chiefs got some needed draft capital and will still be formidable

everyone wins

 

[Michelangelo]

Hill was made for Maholmes. And Maholmes was made for Hill. Both make their beans by extending plays. Both superb freelancers.

I'm guessing that they both suffer without each other.

 

[PatsFan1283]

yeah, Adams is better than Hill and profiles to age much better imo

Mahomes is 27 and half the league would die to play with him. Locking up 4/130 on Hill when you can get legit draft capital for him is just a clear "long game" value move to me.

I suppose a better question would be, how good is Mahomes? He came into the league with the best TE/WR/coach combo that anyone has had in recent memory. The Chiefs in 2017 had Alex Smith as a top 5 MVP candidate, a lot of people forget that. He's definitely a top 3-4 QB but as far as all the young guys go, fair to wonder if the pack is closer to him than it has looked in illustrious young career.

 

[SheriffJoe]

LOL, NE was a way better offense with Moss in '07 than any other year. And if they made 1 more play in 1 game, you wouldn't be posting what you are today. But again I digress, this conversation feels antiquated.

As far as WR's value go, if they don't mean much then not sure why you think the Chiefs not wanting to pay Hill 30M and take 2 good picks is a bad move? That's a clear no brainer under the thesis you are peddling ITT.

I'm not even sure what your point is....Brady didn't need an elite WR because.....He had the best Coach and TE ever arguably? Umm yeah, if he had Lawrence Taylor then that would've been good too.

But for the most part in the modern game, teams with top tier WR's will win SB's.

Huh? I wouldn't be posting what? If they make 1 more play, Brady would have 8 rings, not 7. What's your point? How many SBs did King Moss win again?

Run your routes and don't drop the fucking ball when your stud QB threads it right into your chest. The top WRs draw double coverage forcing a QB to spread it around and don't even factor in the game half the time. In a capped world, you can't pay them all - the other WRs have to execute.

Tyreke does a lot more than catch. He lines up in the backfield, returns punts and is arguably the fastest player in the league.

As you said, Alex Smith looked pretty damn good running Andy Reid's offense. So now we'll get to see what Mahomes is made of. I'm betting Chief fans will dread this trade.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Huh? I wouldn't be posting what? If they make 1 more play, Brady would have 8 rings, not 7. What's your point? How many SBs did King Moss win again?

Run your routes and don't drop the fucking ball when your stud QB threads it right into your chest. The top WRs draw double coverage forcing a QB to spread it around and don't even factor in the game half the time. In a capped world, you can't pay them all.

Tyreke does a lot more than catch. He lines up in the backfield, returns punts and is arguably the fastest player in the league.

So now we'll get to see what Mahomes is made of. I'm betting Chief fans will dread this trade.

I'm really not sure what your point is then?

QB is more valuable than WR? Sure, by a lot. No one said it wasn't.

Yeah Brady did more with less some years (2001-2006 notably, then 2013 and 2016 when Gronk died, also 2018 Gronk was good but not really Gronk anymore)....My point was more "Even Brady had Moss and Gronk....." (and Welker/Edelman who obviously aren't as duplicable as people pretend they are)

It can be done but top WR's gonna be on top teams going forward for the most part IMO.

Best QB + best TE + best coach not exactly the easiest model to replicate

 

[Avocado33]

Huh? I wouldn't be posting what? If they make 1 more play, Brady would have 8 rings, not 7. What's your point? How many SBs did King Moss win again?

Run your routes and don't drop the fucking ball when your stud QB threads it right into your chest. The top WRs draw double coverage forcing a QB to spread it around and don't even factor in the game half the time. In a capped world, you can't pay them all - the other WRs have to execute.

Tyreke does a lot more than catch. He lines up in the backfield, returns punts and is arguably the fastest player in the league.

As you said, Alex Smith looked pretty damn good running Andy Reid's offense. So now we'll get to see what Mahomes is made of. I'm betting Chief fans will dread this trade.

Doesn’t a WR capable of drawing double coverage make them MORE of a factor even if he stats don’t show it for a particular game?

QB obviously more valuable though

 

[PatsFan1283]

Reading the thread back I think there is more agreement than it looks like.

We all pretty much agree WR's are QB-dependent no matter how good they are. It is a symbiotic relationship.

And the Chiefs losing Hill when Kelce is also getting up in age + loaded division does not bode well for their chances to continue their current run w/ Mahomes. But long game wise, I do think the move makes sense in terms of pure value and when Mahomes is 27 you should be thinking long game.

But if anyone says "the last 20 years only XYZ teams have had top whatever WR's", I'd say that is mostly noise and I'd expect most contending teams going forward to be strong at QB-WR.

 

[REDEYE]

If you think Hill's best days are behind him , Chiefs got the best of this deal , doesn't even taken into account that salary cap wise , this helps the Chiefs also...

Short term , Dolphins might get some value out of this.. but still would rank them behind Bills and Pats

 

[PatsFan1283]

Dunno about best days behind him but don't really see Tua running around and throwing him 50 yard bombs either. Also, hard to see a guy over 30 just looking like he is a video game character running by everyone in a few years.....

But I get Miami gambling.....Also, McDaniel comes from the Shanahan tree and he was very creative with Deebo. He could definitely find imaginative ways to use Hill. From what we've seen of Tua, he'll have to...

 

[PatsFanatic]

I hope he stays out of trouble for the Fins sake.....Don't need him going all AB on the team when shit doesn't go his way.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Miami has invested a lot in OL too....Got LT Armstead from Saints, guard Williams from Dallas

That's kinda the 1 decent excuse Tua has so far in his career, his OL did suck last year. Still hard to see him being that good.

 

[SheriffJoe]

Doesn’t a WR capable of drawing double coverage make them MORE of a factor even if he stats don’t show it for a particular game?

QB obviously more valuable though

It can, but only if the other open WRs execute, who will then also demand to get paid (offensive yards, catches and TDs = $$$). That's a loser's race in a capped world and KC, a team supposedly in "win now" mode with an elite QB in his prime, dumping a versatile player like Tyreke Hill for futures is living proof of that.

If I were building a team, I would aim for a two-TE offense, ala Brady, Gronk and errr.. Hernandez...as versatile as it was unstoppable. Two TEs allow you to pretty much dictate the opposition's defensive alignments, coverages and pressures. Then fill in the rest of the O with cheap expendable parts.

It's obvious the KC brass looked at the other moves within their division and concluded their "window" is now closed. So much for being the next dynasty.

 

[Avocado33]

Still hard to see him being that good.

He's probably a median-level quarterback at his peak. Think Ryan Tannehill level maybe

 

[Avocado33]

If I were building a team, I would aim for a two-TE offense, ala Brady, Gronk and errr.. Hernandez...as versatile as it was unstoppable. Two TEs allow you to pretty much dictate the opposition's defensive alignments, coverages and pressures. Then fill in the rest of the O with cheap expendable parts.

Sounds good in theory, but tough to actually do that

Reality is top contenders have strong QB + at least one elite WR and a decent corp for the most part

 

[PatsFan1283]

It can, but only if the other open WRs execute, who will then also demand to get paid (offensive yards, catches and TDs = $$$). That's a loser's race in a capped world and KC, a team supposedly in "win now" mode with an elite QB in his prime, dumping a versatile player like Tyreke Hill for futures is living proof of that.

If I were building a team, I would aim for a two-TE offense, ala Brady, Gronk and errr.. Hernandez...as versatile as it was unstoppable. Two TEs allow you to pretty much dictate the opposition's defensive alignments, coverages and pressures. Then fill in the rest of the O with cheap expendable parts.

It's obvious the KC brass looked at the other moves within their division and concluded their "window" is now closed. So much for being the next dynasty.

There just aren't enough top tier TE's at that level and another issue is TE is 1 of the most injury prone positions. It is also probably the hardest position to learn which is why you see more late bloomer types at the position. Tons of draft busts at TE.

Even when NE had Gronk and Hernandez before 1 became a serial killer, they weren't healthy at the end of the year in any of their 3 years together. And that's like the perfect combo.

Just probably is never gonna work as well as it sounds on paper.

Even NE once Hern decided he was Tony Soprano didn't really ever play much 2TE after that. This past year they just paid 2 TE's in Henry/Smith but Smith kinda sucks so far.


Waller/Andrews/Kelce/Kittle/Gronk none of them were 1st rounders....Just hard to peg those guys and you can spend a lot of time trying

 

[Avocado33]

He's definitely a top 3-4 QB but as far as all the young guys go, fair to wonder if the pack is closer to him than it has looked in illustrious young career.

I would rank the tops QBs today in terms of pure talent/overall ability as

1 Mahomes
2 Brady
3 Rodgers
4 Burrow
5 Allen

Mahomes is just so talented man, that's what puts him as the top guy at the moment for me. He's better than another playmaking guy like Allen IMO because he's more accurate and more consistent (albeit he did go through a slump this year). His playmaking is way better than 2-4. Just a rare blend of athleticism

The supporting cast he inherited definitely has helped in terms of team achievement, but I don't see any other QB being able to create something out of nothing/extend plays and still be as accurate as Mahomes

 

[SheriffJoe]

Mahomes was already trending downward before losing Hill, while Allen keeps rising. I thought Allen surpassed Mahomes last year, but by next season I think Josh Allen will be the number one consensus choice across the board.

Nobody can throw across his body while running as well as Allen. Favre maybe?

I don't know how the Bills lost that KC game but Allen is pure magic. Like all greats, the bigger the game, the better he plays.

 

[Avocado33]

I think Josh Allen will be the number one consensus choice across the board.

No way. Way too inconsistent and not accurate enough.

He has improved his accuracy quite a bit since he was pretty awful with that after leaving Wyoming, but he still has work to do there

 

[Knightrofins]

He's probably a median-level quarterback at his peak. Think Ryan Tannehill level maybe

The questions is which Tannehill are we talking about?

I've seen good Ryan and i've seen bad Ryan

 

[Willie99]

It's official, the Fish are officially done with "The Patriot Way"

Belichick never trades away all those picks and he certainly doesn't pay Hill that kinda money

BTW, no opinion on the trade, other than I want too see how well Mahomes does after the Chiefs shed another one if his boys