This pisses me OFF the way I was treated by WagerStreet ...

[chalkeater]

bob s,

I'm glad people are seeing through your smoke, as Mookdog pointed out. You are changing your story in mid stream, just as you changed your policy on games that have already started.

You did threaten me with my information being released. Quit trying to come and here and do damage control, because you fear you may lose some of your existing and potential new customers.

All I want is my money. That's it. I'm not even going to ask for an apology for the theat, because I would pass out from holding my breath that long.

The e-mail I received from Wagerstreet's customer service just about summed it up ...

From: "Customer Service" <wagerst3@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
To: chalkeater
Subject: RE: Wager Graded as No Action
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:32:13 -0500



Sorry, you got a bad break, chance was against you in this instance.

CE

 

[chalkeater]

General,

Agreed that Bob S could use some work on his PR skills. The book is great for recreational player. The software is excellent.

Not only did Bob reduce my limits without notification, Bob also took away my bonus (which is fine by me) and now the latest, Bob went back and charged me for the Western Union fees after they were once credited.

To me, he seems like a worm. A man on a power trip trying to get as much as he can for the book, regardless if he has to divulge personal information about a customer.

CE

 

[wagerstreetcstservice]

The check you receive will include the western union fee of 75.00.

Regards

 

[lander]

The ratio of American to Canadian scammers is about 8:1.

If you take the Sick Gambler(s) out of the formula it drops to 25:1.

Bob,
I appologize for my countrymen. I wish I could say that there is hope for them, but I think they are just products of their government. Some people believe its ok to pre-emptively nail bad lines and fabricate evidence on the forums - I wonder where they learned this duybious

behavior from? It's sad.

You should be very proud of you great country and your province's glorious French roots, Bob - they set a shinning example for these corrupt Americans.

GL.

God save the queen

 

[BrianG103]

Hmmm

Wagerstreet wishes they had credibility like Pinnacle and Olympic

That's why I choose to only play at those books, they got game, the others wish they only had...

 

[chalkeater]

Bob S,

I appreciate you crediting back my account of $75.00 to cover the Western Union fees. I know you didn't have to do it, but I do appreciate the kind gesture.

Thanks.

CE

 

[Marco]

Mostly agree with EveryDayGambler....I'm putting my bucks with the few proven reliable top end books....I've had my share of books that I've had uneasy feelings about....

Hope things work out for you chalk_eater....

As far as middles go, I guess I've tried to set them up with separate books, being that there's such a taboo about this middling at one book thing.....

Personally when I think about it, it doesn't make that much difference to me. Let's say I bet a dog at +6.5. Big money comes in on the dog and the favorite is now -5.5.

If I now place an equal bet on the favorite at -5.5, in essense I'm betting 1 unit of juice to win 20 units of juice that the favorite wins by 6. Any other outcome to the game, I lose the juice and the book collects the juice.

Let's say in this situation that the book has equal wagering on the dog at +6.5, and the favorite at the latest line of -5.5. They have some people that bet the line at -6 or +6. I know this doesn't happen much in reality, that a lot of games the book is sided and that they have more to lose unless something unexpected happens and the team that is an absolute lock that people have poured money on just up and doesn't cover.

So, let's say that in this case the worst case scenario for the book in this instance would be having the favorite win by 6. They would pay all the dog bettors, all the favorite bettors, and those that took the 6 points whether dog or favorite got a push.

They got heavy action on the dog at +6.5, whereupon they decided to move the line to attract more favorite money. Money comes in on the favorite now and pretty soon it balances out at -5.5.

My question is this:

If the game finishes with the favorite winning by 6, does it really matter WHO the money goes to when practically everyone who bet the game (except the 6's) won????

Does it make any difference if I have BOTH the dog at +6.5 and the favorite at -5.5......or if John Smith has the dog at +6.5 and Tom Brown has the favorite at -5.5????

The book is sweating the 6 and pays both sides, REGARDLESS WHO OWNS THE SIDES.

Middles don't hit very often but when they hit it doesn't matter who bet them.....just for the books point of view just how much money was paid out from the unfortunate outcome.

If they just paid out hundreds of thousands from a middle hitting, they are OUT THE MONEY, plain and simple. Would it matter if two posters on this board argued over the outcome on this game, only to each be happy that they individually won, or if one poster played both sides and collected both?

On a related note, what about hedging? Let's say someone has an 8-teamer out there that 7 outcomes have already won. Let's say it pays like $9000 to hit all 8. Is it ok or is it taboo to hedge the last game out with the same book to guarantee yourself about a profit somewhere in the middle of that possible $9000? Should you hedge something like this out with a second book? Does the payout amount matter, say if it was for significantly less than the $9000 or more than that amount?

A lot has been said about hedging but I haven't seen much about ettiquette about this.

This may draw some heat but I'm looking forward to all your comments.....

 

[SportSavant]

the other day we were talking about this bad line issue with danny may & Intertops...Today it is with Chalk & Wagerstreet.

Most on this thread seem to blame the player for banging the bad line. Cancelation of bets within minutes of tipoff are IMHO unacceptable...it is the shops responsibility to make sure their house is in order...Sure there may be some shoppers who bang bad lines but their are also honest people who may simply be playing those lines...

Who is protecting the players...with these rules seemingly getting easier & slacker, what is preventing books from taking the 'bad action' & then cancelling once there is a good indication which way the game is going?

Wagerstreet...both of these man's bets should be refunded...or they should both be allowed to stand. regardless of the way he plays...if you are a business with integrity you will realise this

 

[chalkeater]

SportSavant,

I could not agree with you anymore. I've always said since this thread has started that Bob S should run a tighter ship, instead of preaching to me the ettiquette rules of what to do and what not to do to a sportsbook (he also mentioned quite a bit about KARMA, something which I don't believe in.)

There are square bettors who bet BAD lines (reverse favorites) and do not know it. I can't say for sure, but I would bet that their bets are NOT always cancelled either.

Both of my games I bet did start before I was notified by e-mail. Hell, they could have called me if they really had a problem. They didn't. I ended up winning the bet that was cancelled and losing the bet that stood. Fine, perhaps I got what I deserved, but Bob S changed his policy while I was on the phone with him.

I guess I should be fortunate that he did credit back my Western Union transaction fees. He had previously revoked them while I was on the phone with him.

I even had made an offer to let both bets stand and I pay him $40.00 in juice, but he declined. They have my balls in a wringer and there's not my I can do. I am just waiting for my money.

I'm already off to one of my other accounts.

Take care.

CE

 

[SportSavant]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> There are square bettors who bet BAD lines (reverse favorites) and do not know it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


not only that...all books have ridiculous prop bets posted all over the place, which are , for all intensive purposes....ridiculous...sometimes with 0% chance of winning...check out some of the props at several books...squares may walk in & bet these every day for fun...no wan warns them or tells them they made a mistake....just like they take their cake from the squares...they have to take some lumps from the sharpies...it is up to them to run a tighter ship...

wagerstreet be reasonable here...either cancel both bets or let both stand...how can it be both? obviously both should be cancelled...

 

[chalkeater]

The only reason why Bob S re-credited back my Western Union funds is because I called him out on it in this thread. Other than that, I would have ate the $75.00 fees + the $220 that I lost on the Illinois State 2nd half wager.

He is not a man of reason. He using his authority as he sees fit. He won't be getting any of my referral business, but then again, he may not want the kind of business I was going to bring him. Well, on 2nd thought, I just may send some business to him ... hehe ...

I just want my money now. That's all. There are far better books that Wagerstreet, such as Olympic, CRIS, Pinnacle, SKY/RIO, JAZZ, ABC, Bowman's, LasPalmas, Grande, Cascade and BetAtlantic just to name a few ...

Perhaps Wagerstreet should changed their URL address to: www.scaredbook.com

Have a good evening.

CE

 

[wilheim]

Posted by Dimeplayersonly in January:


running a successfull shop requires attention to detail and proper management......

1. advertising
2. staff
3. expenses
4. license fees
ect..........

all fall under proper management...... people with degrees are available in those areas....find someone who specializes in those areas..........

those areas are actually the easiest to control, because these
are elements that ALL business owners anywhere in the world have to deal with........

so imo.......those factors shouldnt contribute to a books failure.........

failure of a sportsbook happens from poor bookmaking......period

short bankroll
too much sharp action
slow lines
bonuses
scammers
limits too high

anything that has to do with preparing for and accepting wagers on an event .........is the biggest variable......

why would anyone want to open up a post-up shop offshore nowadays?????????

either insane or wants to lose every penny they have comes to mind.............


the main clients you will get are scalpers and sharps..........

then along come the scammers and hackers.........

Case in point this thread.

 

[Horseshoe]

CE, while I agree that it's a book's responsibilty to watch what their doing, one has to know that in the day and age of "booking scared", shops will use any excuse to run someone scalping both sides of a game in house.

I'm in the dark on whether you should have had both wagers cancelled or their exact post times, as I am taking a break, and not watching it, but either way, if either side took a shot, the angst alone makes it seem best that your arrangement part ways in this case.

I can appreciate both sides of your situation, and admire your moxy, but if you believe in your abilities and think you can beat a place with consistency, then it's better to keep the out..detente.

Let it go at this point, as the weighing on your mind alone at this point may be costing you money in the present.


P.S. The betting world is aware of the sharps from your locale(city and state), and wouldn't be surprised by whom you would possibly send their way.

GL this spring!

 

[DavidMatthews]

The Utah +7 and Portland -4 bet doesn't faze me. He's not middling. At both times, he was betting the market line. That is not a middle. Any book that doesn't welcome that action doesn't understand sports betting very well.

That would be the same as a book being upset when a guy bets a team +6 and they're up by 18 at the half, and the same player bets the opponent -12 2nd half locking in a 12-point "middle." (I'd be willing to bet there are some lines managers out there who would be bothered by this as well. Goofy.)

The halftime bets were bad lines it seems... that's more obscure ethically. My idealistic mind believes that the onus is on the book, and when it puts out a bad line, it has failed in its responsibility. My practical side, however, realizes that the book has the power (they have the money and also decide whether or not they will honor a bet) so I wouldn't try to bet any bad lines... I'd just be asking for trouble.

 

[IDENTITY]

EXACTLY....what if this guy had bet portland -7 at first????? then he would be trapped when the line move occurred. he happened to get lucky and play it the right way.

take a bet at market price, pay the bet. do NOT cancel once the game begins.

stay far away from a less than fair book imo.

 

[bettorstalk.com]

The better should not have wagered into bad lines, however the proper resolution would be to have cancelled both wagers.

 

[newton0038]

Why would a book that is saying they are reputable not have an e-mail address on their own server. Instead they "YAHOO". Cut all losses and get a real book. [QUOTE by Mookdog]
You don't have to be a veteran of this game to see through Bob's smoke. He's trying to play the cool and collected game, but he's far too smug.
I am making deposits into three new books in the coming weeks, his won't be one of them.
Good luck [/QUOTE]

 

[SportSavant]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> why would anyone want to open up a post-up shop offshore nowadays?????????

either insane or wants to lose every penny they have comes to mind.............


the main clients you will get are scalpers and sharps..........

then along come the scammers and hackers.........

Case in point this thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I, disagree wil, remember the old expreassion "there is a sucker born every minute"....There will always be new players lining up to give this game a shot...'squares' I guess is what I mean to say....Besides how many sharps or middlers actually make alot of money in the long run anyway...sure some might, but in the most part they also lack the displine & conviction to grind it out...They may last a little longer, but in the long run they lose it all aswell

players may be sharper today with all internet resources but I do not beleive that they have more discipline.

Reaons a book might fail IMHO:

poor marketing

poor custumer Service (payouts/friendliness/promptness...)

Poor Line Management...Posting mistakes???...

Limits too High...

Poor Website Design or Capabilities...

But it certainly wont be becauz the masses are sharpies who are gonna walk in & rob them

....

The politics that go on in these threads is absurd...obviously rx'ers are well aware that the books are reading these threads therefore many of the veterans I AM SURE do not speak from the heart...either that or their associations with some books or others is too great...


NO LEGIT BUSINESS...could get away with what wagerstreet is trying to pull on this customer.

BOTH BETS SHOULD STAND

or

OTH BETS SHOULD BE CANCELLED.

do the right thing wagerstreet......or at least accept the resolution of a moderator over here.

 

[chalkeater]

I appreciate all of your comments.

Bob S, do you want a moderator to resolve this issue?

I think it's only a fair thing to do.

I'm still making my offer that both bets get cancelled and I pay you $40.00 in juice.

Please let all of us know.

CE

 

[lander]

I think he already answered you the last 8 times you asked him ...
but then again, maybe the 9th time is a charm