tcbets (Edited)

marc · Jan 20, 2004

MC,

You are right, the books have no responsibility to cover the deposit fees. But 99% of them will so long as you roll your money 1x. And I don't mind paying withdrawal fees, but I don't like it when a book charges me $100 fro a $2500 withdrawal when the cost is at most $30.

TcBets and the whole MVPsportsbook family is doing nothing wrong. They are totally upfront about there fees. And perhaps there fee structure is designed to keep away anyonme who has a chance of winning. All I'm saying is that if you are someone who thinks you have a chance to win a few dimes In the course of a weekor two, I can't think of any reason to play with these guys. IF you are a small player or someone who loses, quite frankly it doesn't make much of a difference where you play.

TheGeneral+ · Jan 20, 2004

I have discussed this issue in reference to the chargebacks with tcbets management, tcbets financials, & the vendor in question. Documentation has been supplied to support the claims that this person did request a chargeback after withdrawing funds from tcbets.

bootsandswiper,

If you feel this issue is still in error then please email me so that I can tell you how to go about verifying the info yourself.

Title edited slightly.

Thanks and good luck all.

marc · Jan 20, 2004

General,

Can you make a note in the title that the title was edited. Until I clicked on the thread I wasn't quite sure if it was the thread I was looking for since the title was different

Halifax · Jan 20, 2004

Michael Cash:

You still haven't addressed the biggest complaint here.

I agree with you that it's within the book's right to pass on the withdrawal fees (and even the deposit fees) to the customer.

However, as marc and a couple of others mentioned, the MVP books charge the customer MORE than what it costs them to process the deposits/withdrawals, effectively making this a "profit centre" for Dalton's books.

That, Mr. Cash, is just downright greasy, and I challenge you to come up with an argument in defense of this action.

ellenwisdom · Jan 20, 2004

had no problem limit netteller withdrawl

marc · Jan 20, 2004

ellen,

everyone agrees that they pay. But had you asked for $5,000 neteller as opposed to $2500 you would have had a problem. You would have been faced with 3 options assuming this is your 1st withdrawal in 30 days

1) take the $5000 by check (if you sent money neteller they will first send back to neteller.)
2) take $2500 by check, and $2500 neteller.
3) take $2500 neteller today, and take $2500 neteller tomorrow but get hit with $100 in fees

Whats being discussed here is not their ability to pay, but thier fee structure

When I played with mvpsportsbook, after 30 days I had to cash out. Not because I wnated to be a whore who takes thier money and run the first chance I got. But I needed to make a withdrawal, and because of thier outrageous fees
I would have to wait another 30 days beofre I could make another withdrawal. And I simply wasn't prepared and willing to tie up my funds with them for another 30 days.

The only one I know of who is worse is betus.com They also charge 4% and don't even give you a free withdrawal. But as long as you roll your money once they won't hit you with a deposit fee

ellenwisdom · Jan 21, 2004

Marc tou are correct but one time I bitch so much about fee they gave me 5ooo {

www.cappersnetwork.com · Jan 21, 2004

Just an FYI I am done with this thread. The point I am trying to make is getting lost in translation from my fingers to your brains so I will just leave this for Halifax. From MVP's Site...

Traditional NETeller.com

Money In: We cover transaction fees from NETeller to MVP Sportsbook on deposits of $200 US or more into your wagering account. Otherwise, client covers fees (approximately 4% with a minimum fee of $2 US)

Money Out: We cover transaction fees once every thirty days. Otherwise, client covers fees (approximately 4% with a minimum fee of $2 US). Withdrawal requests via Neteller are limited to one withdrawal per day, at a maximum of $2,500 US. Fees incurred for multiple withdrawals within one thirty day period are the sole responsibility of the client.

Restrictions: Money received via NETeller must be paid out via NETeller prior to money being withdrawn via any other means.

I am not the smartest cat in the world but to me it looks like once every 30 days they will give you one free withdrawl via NETeller. After that you have to pay the fees which will work out to approximately 4% with a minimum fee of $2.

So tell me Halifax, how does this make them a "profit center"? Looks to me that they just want to be reimbursed for the costs of doing business if the player turns out to just be a shopper.

Some places give you ZERO free withdrawls EVER! So what is everyone bitching about? Let me spell it out for you one last time before I excuse myself: These are costs of doing business that if ALL the books suddenly decided to stop covering you would be responsible for OR you WOULD NOT be betting online probably.

I can name 5 books right now that don't cover ANY fees. So stop whining about having to pay 4% if you want more then the freebie.

You can comment if you like, I will be back in to read probably but won't be posting on this subject anymore.

MC

marc · Jan 21, 2004

MC,

Perhaps you haven't been reading this thread carefully. As we have stated multiple times, the cost of a $2500 neteller withdrawal is $30. However MVP will charge you 4% which equals $100. That means for every additional withdrawal of $2500 via neteller that you make MVP is charging you $70 more than they should. That is risk free profit they are making off of you. And as Danny MAy pointed out, if it was a prepaidatm transaction they would be making $90 off of you.

And what you also fail to appreciate is that 99% of the books out there cover deposit fees wiht the only stipulation being a 1x rollover. MVP requires a 30 day hold on all your money.

CLearly MVP has a good business model because they keep all the cusotmers likke yourself who don't realize how ridiculous there fee structure is, and they chase away all the guys who have a clue

theinvestigatorcr · Jan 21, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by marc:
MC,

... As we have stated multiple times, the cost of a $2500 neteller withdrawal is $30.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember that for the same $2500 they had to pay a $98 depositing fee.

To receive and send $2500 they have to pay a total of $128 to neteller.

www.cappersnetwork.com · Jan 21, 2004

Last time and then I am really done because this is getting retarded...

Marc,

Where does it say either on NETeller's site or on MVP's site what merchants get charged by NETeller? I went through both today and couldn't find any info to support your "4% is more then they should charge" theory.

Furthermore, Investigator makes a very nice point. You are getting a free fee on the front end too because NETeller DOES charge you to send money to merchants.

So you get a free deposit fee, 1 free withdrawl per month free and a 4% fee if you want more then that? Am I missing something? Oh the 30 days. So what? Most people who bet recreationally will never encounter a rollover issue or a withdrawl fee issue. Obviously MVP has this in place to let it be known what type of business they want.

Perhaps next time they should put your additional withdrawl per month in a shiny new Corvette with your 4% stuffed in the glove box?

You get EVERYTHING betting online, you get NOTHING on the street. Still though, people will find the smallest thing to bitch about. Unreal.

MC

P.S. Done. Anyone who wants to continue this is free to email me at MCash@BettorsNetwork.com and I will be happy to respond when I get time.

Halifax · Jan 21, 2004

Weak argument, Mr. Cash.

Let's look at a scenario: Let's say I deposit $2,500 by Neteller, and win an additional $10,000.

Now, I want to make a withdrawal of my full balance .

I will grant you that MVP/TCBets has the right to recoup their outlay on deposit/withdrawal fees on the $2,500 that I deposited (it doesn't matter whether I've been there 1 day or 100 days, they still have that right), so let's say I pay all fees related to my $2,500 deposit/withdrawal.

Now, what about my $10,000 in winnings that I am about to withdraw by Neteller ? I will need to make 4 withdrawal requests of $2,500 each. MVP/TCBets will charge me a total of $400 in fees for this (4 x $100), yet their cost will only be $120 (4 x $30).

They will net a profit of $280 on the withdrawal fees. This is what I mean by a "profit centre".

I realize they advertise with you, but come on, this is a legitimate complaint that a lot of people have mentioned over the past few months.

Edit: By the way, the $30 per $2,500 fee that Neteller charges has been confirmed by several sportsbooks, including a few that are a lot smaller than Dalton's organization. There's certainly no reason to think that the MVP group would pay more than the smaller sportsbooks - and it's quite possible that they actually pay less than that.

truthteller · Jan 21, 2004

It's a fact. All transactions of $2500 are charged $30.

Muddy · Jan 21, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Now, what about my $10,000 in winnings that I am about to withdraw by Neteller ? I will need to make 4 withdrawal requests of $2,500 each. MVP/TCBets will charge me a total of $400 in fees for this (4 x $100), yet their cost will only be $120 (4 x $30).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When books apply for a neteller merchant acct they can negotiate the transaction fee. I know someone who has one and its only $15 per transaction, flat fee!

Muddy · Jan 21, 2004

I just dont believe they let neteller charge them $100 for every $2500. If that the case someone should get fired!

peteep · Jan 21, 2004

This is quite silly that we are even debating this any longer. The issue is simple....the MVP family of books have less favourable rules regarding withdrawals then hundrends of other books. MC obviously is defending them because they advertise with him. He can try to make up a million analogies about why they are better than betting with a local, but can't come up with a reasonable argument when comparing their rules to other offshore books. Truth is, there banking rules are not as competitive as most other books. That said, they are not the absolute worst, and they do pay. For many, including myself, their banking rules are a good reason to look elsewhere.

[This message was edited by peteep on January 21, 2004 at 11:49 PM.]

marc · Jan 21, 2004

I've also confrimed with neteller that they never charge more than $30 per $2500 on a withdrawal.

When MVP offers there 50% promo or their %100% or even their 20% promo, if you have a large enough bankroll, that you can afford to set aside some cash for a month, its worth taking adavnatge of. But otherwise, their fees, and their lines are just not competitive. I think thier ml's for hockey is about the only value i have ever found there.

www.cappersnetwork.com · Jan 21, 2004

1) I am done, you people mezmorize me.

2) Marc, post the correspondance between you and NETeller and provide a name of your contact there.

3) Show me where it says that ANYWHERE. A URL or a person to contact is a pre-requisite or don't bother answering.

4) No matter WHAT, this is still a petty arguement. MVP has these policies in place for a reason. You don't understand the reason so be it, if you are too ignorant to get the picture then post up with Aces Gold of NAB.

MC

www.cappersnetwork.com · Jan 21, 2004

P.S.

I just checked my email from NETeller and I want to advise all that respond to me to be very careful. I have the complete NETeller fee schedule and you are all very wrong when it comes to figures. You think otherwise bring it on. I am happy to copy and paste.

Consider this Texas Hold Em and I got the Nuts

MC

Halifax · Jan 21, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Michael Cash:
P.S.

I just checked my email from NETeller and I want to advise all that respond to me to be very careful. I have the complete NETeller fee schedule and you are all very wrong when it comes to figures. You think otherwise bring it on. I am happy to copy and paste.

Consider this Texas Hold Em and I got the Nuts

MC<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not a poker game, Mike.

Paste what you have. If MVP/TCBets are actually paying 4% on Neteller withdrawals, well, that certainly works in their favour as far as justifying charging their customers the 4%.

Paste what you have - I'd love to see it, personally.