Specter switches parties

[Willie99]

So after you're done cutting off your nose to spite your face who will be left to elect "true" Republicans into high office?

what's the point of having a political value system if you ignore them? You either have principles or you don't. The republican base goes adrift when the leaders abandon conservatism. If somebody wants to be a Liberal Democrat, let them be a Liberal Democrat.

Everything in politics is cyclical, and Americans are right of center. There is no doubt in my mind that there will be another shift in power, and then another after that, and another and another and..............................

 

[festeringZit]

Turns out Benedict Specter saw that he was behind 20% in
the Repub primary polls to Pat Toomey, and decided the only
way to keep his job would be to switch to the other side.

That is the only reason for the switch, political expediency.

 

[beammeupscotty]

turns out benedict specter saw that he was behind 20% in
the repub primary polls to pat toomey, and decided the only
way to keep his job would be to switch to the other side.

That is the only reason for the switch, political expediency.

i do not see how that man can look himself in the mirror...he has betrayed the people that voted for him...if he wanted to switch parties...the honorable and right thing to have done was to resign and run on the democratic ticket the next election...the man has no integrity...he is a snake in the grass...he was not elected by democrats he was eelected by republicans to represent their votes and wishes....this is exactly what i have been saying about the scallywags that have over run the usa.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

what's the point of having a political value system if you ignore them? You either have principles or you don't. The republican base goes adrift when the leaders abandon conservatism. If somebody wants to be a Liberal Democrat, let them be a Liberal Democrat.

Everything in politics is cyclical, and Americans are right of center. There is no doubt in my mind that there will be another shift in power, and then another after that, and another and another and..............................

I'm torn here. As much as I enjoy seeing the Republican party fall apart at the seams, I'm not crazy about the idea of the Dems having a filibuster proof majority.

The base has gone adrift, and independents are running away because your party has been hijacked by religious zealots.

The Republican party offers absolutely nothing to anyone who isn't a white Christian.

I don't know how much longer you will be able to say that the US is a center-right country. There is a sea change in process with gay marriage and other social issues that keeps the poor white Christians voting Republican. Spector today talked about how 200,000 people in Pennsylvania alone have recently switched from R to D.

Keep in mind that this isn't to say that the Dems are all that great. All they have to do is start attempting to pass restrictive gun legislation and the momentum could shift back.

All in all, both parties are too fucking stupid to get into and stay in power on their own merits. Only when they become the lesser of two evils does a side usually win.

 

[festeringZit]

I'm torn here. As much as I enjoy seeing the Republican party fall apart at the seams, I'm not crazy about the idea of the Dems having a filibuster proof majority.

The base has gone adrift, and independents are running away because your party has been hijacked by religious zealots.

The Republican party offers absolutely nothing to anyone who isn't a white Christian.

I don't know how much longer you will be able to say that the US is a center-right country. There is a sea change in process with gay marriage and other social issues that keeps the poor white Christians voting Republican. Spector today talked about how 200,000 people in Pennsylvania alone have recently switched from R to D.

Keep in mind that this isn't to say that the Dems are all that great. All they have to do is start attempting to pass restrictive gun legislation and the momentum could shift back.

All in all, both parties are too fucking stupid to get into and stay in power on their own merits. Only when they become the lesser of two evils does a side usually win.

"The Republican party offers absolutely nothing to anyone who isn't a white Christian. "

And this is where DEAC shows again that he's all about bullshit rhetoric,
and not about substance or truth.

What a fucking asinine thing to say.

 

[3peet]

Everything in politics is cyclical, and Americans are right of center.

The whole "Center/Right" identification of the country is farse. I maybe out here in California but judging by how things are going in this country; (e.g. acceptence of gay marriages, a black president, fewer number of Americans indentifying as republicans, laxed immigration policy, crumbling conservative ideology, etc) it's pretty damn clear this country started steam rolling away from the right atleast 10 years ago and isn't anywhere close to turning back.

 

[Willie99]

Whatever

The whole "Center/Right" identification of the country is farse. I maybe out here in California but judging by how things are going in this country; (e.g. acceptence of gay marriages, a black president, fewer number of Americans indentifying as republicans, laxed immigration policy, crumbling conservative ideology, etc) it's pretty damn clear this country started steam rolling away from the right atleast 10 years ago and isn't anywhere close to turning back.

Pew poll released 11/25/2008

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1042/winds-of-political-change-havent--shifted-publics-ideology-balance

You do know the party that holds the office of President changes frequently, eh? People were angry w/Bush, and the GOP takes the blame.

Politicians failing to manage the borders means what again? LOL

Liberal judges making liberal rulings means in ultra liberal states means the country is moving to the left? LOL

38 >>>>>>>> 21, by a pretty wide margin

 

[Willie99]

What party is the angry party again?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

A survey by the Pew Research Center shows that conservatives are happier than liberals -- in all income groups. While 34 percent of all Americans call themselves "very happy," only 28 percent of liberal Democrats (and 31 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats) do, compared with 47 percent of conservative Republicans. This finding is niftily self-reinforcing: It depresses liberals.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

of course, anyone able to think should be able to figure this out. Who do you think is going to be happier?

A) a person that takes responsibility for his life?

B) a person that thinks government needs to pave his way?

I'm thinking that victim hood mentality can't be very healthy, and certainly not inclined to result in one being happy

 

[Willie99]

Of course, the people that are happy are also more generous. Conservatives give more time, Conservatives give more blood and Conservatives give more money than Liberals.

I wonder what's better for mankind? Giving more of everything or expecting government to redistribute someone else's assets?

http://www.arthurbrooks.net/whoreallycares/excerpt.html


Keep believing the mythology being spread by the enabling liberal media. I'm going to continue to live my life, continue to be happy, continue to take care of myself and continue to provide for my family.

I only ask for one thing, the opportunity to pursue happiness.

I pity anyone that expects something more, and think the POTUS is going to deliver that something.

 

[Willie99]

experience is the world's greatest teacher. It's amazing that as people get older, they become more conservative. The more we learn, the more we see, the more we experience; the more conservative we become

 

[RobFunk]

Willie, what is your problem. What a rediculous rant with a lot of false assumptions. OK, older people tend to be more conservative. You got that right. Who cares?!

Conservatives give more time, Conservatives give more blood and Conservatives give more money than Liberals.

This is just an ignorant blanket statement and you have nothing that proves it. Many of the United states' celebritys and uber wealthy are liberal and giving uncle sam and various charitys big chunks of cheese.

 

[Willie99]

Willie, what is your problem. What a rediculous rant with a lot of false assumptions. OK, older people tend to be more conservative. You got that right. Who cares?!

tell me about my false assumption? because I didn't assume anything

as for a rant, I merely addressed many of the issues talked about in this here thread. Isn't that what we're here for?

Conservatives are mean and angry and get nothing done, a post you praised. Obviously, the polar opposite is true.

The country is no longer right of center, once again false.

You want a rant and false assumptions? Look at 21's plagiarized post which you copied and said "great post"

 

[barman]

Pirates, Marlins, Braves and Tigers for Wednesday




As You Were

 

[Willie99]

Willie, what is your problem. What a rediculous rant with a lot of false assumptions. OK, older people tend to be more conservative. You got that right. Who cares?!

This is just an ignorant blanket statement and you have nothing that proves it. Many of the United states' celebritys and uber wealthy are liberal and giving uncle sam and various charitys big chunks of cheese.

I provided the link to the author of a book. A Univ of Syracuse professor that is a life long liberal, when he started his study, he expected the exact opposite results. Here is that link again, and you can click on the "statistics" link.

http://www.arthurbrooks.net/whoreallycares/statistics.html

 

[Willie99]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When Arthur Brooks first began writing WHO REALLY CARES: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism, he expected to find ample proof that liberals are the more charitable group in America. When early findings led to the opposite conclusion, he assumed he had made an error. He re-ran analyses and got new data, but in the end he had no option but to change his views.

http://www.faithfulreader.com/reviews/0465008216-about.asp

------------------------------------------------------------------------

when the book was first released, I remember hearing him speak and reading about the disparity between his expectations and his findings, and saying how he is a lifelong Democrat. I can't find that link now, but this link touches on that issue.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Willie99]

Rob, I need you to reconcile something for me.

When I said conservatives give more time, money and blood than liberals, and I provided a link, you called that an "ignorant blanket statement".

Yet you called the following post by Mr21 an "Outstanding post".

The GOP has shriveled into the regional Anti-Everything Party -- and it is falling apart at the seams -- dropping membership, inability to raise sufficient funds, and it's lousy with fringe extremists.

The Republican Party is the party of bigots, xenophobes, and religious ideologues.

It's the party of attack dogs: I'm right, you're wrong, and if you disagree, then you're un-American.

It's the party that promotes the dumbing down of America, where being stupid is good and being educated is "elitist."

It's the party that rewards greed and cronyism -- and doesn't give a flying flip about helping your fellow man or woman.

The GOP is furious that Barack Obama is in the White House. They unequivocally want our President to fail.

They criticize and stoke anger but offer NO actual alternative ideas or clear solutions -- because they have none.

GOP talking points nearly always boil down to either Hate or Fear.

The Republican Party is the party that vilifies anyone who disagrees with their very narrow view of the world, appeals to the the basest of human nature, and then wraps it up in the American flag and calls it patriotism.

In all seriousness Funkster, WTF?

 

[RobFunk]

Willie, I happen to agree with a lot of those comments, even if it is not MR21's work.

I especially like "It's the party of attack dogs: I'm right, you're wrong, and if you disagree, then you're un-American"

Un-American?! Oh that's being polite. I recall anyone disagreeing with then current policy accused of being part of the 'hate America crowd'. But now, if I don't disagree with Obama I am not doing enough to be a good citizen. It's rediculous. How can I win?!

I guess I need to learn to be a better bystander.

And yes the "conservatives give more time, money and blood than liberals" quote you made was slightly offensive to me. Because I feel most everyone does their best to help others whenever they can regardless of political philosophy.

 

[barman]

The cited poll must be acknowledged as not particularly useful in measuring the wide variety of high attention social issues from which Americans define themselves as C, M or L.

If we just use those three words, then of course we're going to see more C and M because quite frankly there's been a rather successful framing of the word "liberal" during the past 20 years as being something less friendly than C or M.

Though in fact, none of the three - C, M or L - are any more friendly, less friendly, mean, selfish, yada yada as any of the others if given a big enough sample from each group.

What's clear to me is that not only are those who have entered the voting ranks during the past 12 years more comfortable with self-defining as "Liberal", the overall attitudes of the 18-45 age range are indisputably more comfortable with tolerating and/or endorsing socially liberal attitudes and public policies.

Standing a firm ground for most anyone 30 and above is "conservative financially" and I don't see that changing much in coming years.

Thus, on financial and business matters, I perceive that more Americans will remain staunchly center/right in next 10 to 20 years. And on social matters, there will continue to be a plodding, but nonetheless relentless tilt towards more tolerant and liberal mindsets.

I think that in the coming couple of decades, smart thinking Americans of all stripes will realize that it's far more urgent to keep our personal and our public finances in order than it is to burn needless energy trying to police adult consensual behaviors.

====
As for the lead topic of Specter "switching to Dem", that's a "duh!".....He's just one of the two or three guys who each election cycle jump parties in hopes of securing their grip on whatever office they hold. It's hardly an indicator of overall national trends. Rather, it's an isolated example of someone trying to get an edge in what is a pretty high-stakes career.

 

[barman]

Because I feel most everyone does their best to help others whenever they can regardless of political philosophy.

That's certainly been my experience. I've little interest in the opinions of those ("left" or "right") who wish to try and inflate the value of their fellows by suggesting that they are so much nicer, smarter, more generous et al than "the other guy". What a needless waste of energy.

 

[BetIt]

experience is the world's greatest teacher. It's amazing that as people get older, they become more conservative. The more we learn, the more we see, the more we experience; the more conservative we become

That is quite a leap just by looking at a graph (there may be other evidence but I haven't seen it in this thread). There are plenty of other conclusions one can leap to to explain the age gap . Take for instance, maybe older generations grew up in a different time where conservative values were needed more than they are today, hence the age gap. Or simply as Barman cites above, those words have different meanings to different generations.

By those ways of thinking, if you extend it to the age gap we see in gay marriage, then people with more "experience" will become more anti gay marriage. It's just a bit of stretch to make that assumption based on one graph.

But you're right, it is cyclical and right now the Pubs are in a down cycle. Is it the death of the party, no but they are an absolute mess right now and I think they are in danger of minimizing themselves in the short term future. Maybe there was nothing they could do to prevent it (as it is cyclical) but their actions certainly aren't helping the situation. The Chairman (Steele) is an absolute goofball and I'm not sure if the person that will bring them out of the mess is even in the public eye right now. It's a similar situation to the Dems after 9/11. They have nowhere to go. The biggest question is if the Dems can be competent enough to have the cycle last just 4 years or maybe 8 and beyond.