sell! sell! sell!

Search

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
perhaps I do give them too much credit

as far as the US....we are already in a recession. But the rest of the world is still booming and we are no longer the global titan of the past.

gotta believe the commodity stocks de-couple from the broader market soon.

they will come to a screeching halt at some point i think

china has so much overcapacity once the US consumer hits a wall in a major way as china hasn't done enough on the domestic consumption side of things to make up for it

HG.Z07.E COPPER Dec 2007 (E) (NYMEX) 2.9840 -0.1775 -5.75%

QC.Z07.E MINY COPPER Dec 2007 (E) (NYMEX) 2.9840 -0.1775 -5.62%

looks like some yen selling spike might be coming in now, lets see if they end this bear party before the days out, and are able to snap back things to over 13k....we might be bottoming near term seems alot of bulls on alot of fronts starting to get cold feet
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
major battleground right in here bully knows the importance of holding down the fort around these levels

maybe just retesting 13k again looks like yen spike down fizzling now

i know they have a bear like me on edge thinking they might spike the markets from here
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
well looks like they might hold it down

slowly turning bullish very near term...but its just will be a spike that'll fail and get bulls all excited after getting spooked quite bit...

bear markets not for a faint of heart
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
the helicopters are flying overhead.

d1g1t

yeah regardless it will all be BS if we do indeed rally more than momentarily

seems like when the dollar stabilizes we stay flat

when it tanks market goes up

overall though since the rate cuts dollar tanking and markets going nowhere

yen spike down looks over, usually when i'm a moderate term bear and i start turning bullish probably a good idea to not listen to my bullishness

i'm just getting all confused in this area which way we will go, the 13k battle rages on
 

Triple digit silver kook
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
13,697
Tokens
Forget helicopters...they are bringing in the heavy duty plunge team weaponry to save market today.

hola
 

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,151
Tokens
b52's have been spotted....
dog13.gif


keep an eye on SIRI/XMSR
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
it's warfare right now

who's gonna win? might have to wait till tomorrow to find out
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
off the bull/bear topic

but ethanol from corn a sham

------------------------------------------------------------

Ethanol Bust Makes Losers of Bush, Gates, D.E. Shaw (Update1)

Nov. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Ethanol, the centerpiece of President George W. Bush's plan to wean the U.S. from oil, is 2007's worst energy investment.

The corn-based fuel tumbled 57 percent from last year's record of $4.33 a gallon and drove crop prices to a 10-year high. Production in the U.S. tripled after Morgan Stanley, hedge fund firm D.E. Shaw & Co. and venture capitalist Vinod Khosla helped finance a building boom.

Even worse for investors and the Bush administration, energy experts contend ethanol isn't reducing oil demand. Scientists at Cornell University say making the fuel uses more energy than it creates, while the National Research Council warns ethanol production threatens scarce water supplies.

As oil nears $100 a barrel, ethanol markets are so depressed that distilleries are shutting from Iowa to Germany. An investor who put $10 million into ethanol on Dec. 31 now has $7.5 million, a loss of 25 percent. Florida and Georgia have banned sales during the summer, when the fuel may evaporate and create smog.

``I don't anticipate any sort of immediate rebound,'' says Barry Frazier, the 50-year-old president of Center Ethanol LLC in suburban St. Louis. ``It's going to take 12 to 24 months before the market is able to absorb the large amount of new capacity.''

ADM, Bill Gates

The biggest producer, Archer Daniels Midland Co., may resort to exporting ethanol. Pacific Ethanol Inc., backed by Microsoft Corp. co-founder Bill Gates, dropped 70 percent in New York trading this year as profits collapsed. Record oil prices, which make blending of ethanol with gasoline more profitable for refiners, haven't stemmed the declines.

``Ethanol companies are near break-even at best,'' says Ron Oster, a principal at Broadpoint Capital Inc. in Albany, New York. ``That's not a good recipe when you have $100 oil.''

Corn has risen to $3.795 a bushel on the Chicago Board of Trade from less than $2.50 in September 2006. Ethanol on the exchange is little changed at $1.865 a gallon, after falling from a peak of $4.33 in June 2006.

The Bush energy plan spurred more production by mandating increased use of so-called biofuels, such as corn-based ethanol. The administration proposed raising output in the next 10 years to five times the current target amount for 2012.

Government Incentives

The U.S. Senate approved the increase and lengthened the time frame to 2022. The federal government has 20 separate laws and incentives to boost ethanol use, and 49 states offer additional subsidies and supports, according to the Energy Department in Washington.

Scientists question the wisdom of using ethanol. Stanford University researchers say ethanol, originally added to gasoline in the 1970s to reduce tailpipe emissions, does nothing to improve the environment.

``It takes more energy to produce ethanol than it actually gives off,'' says David Pimentel, a Cornell University professor who has studied production of the fuel for two decades.

Ethanol is a form of alcohol indistinguishable from moonshine that's created by fermenting and distilling the starches from corn, sugar, wheat and other crops. Harvesting, crushing, fermenting and distilling corn requires 29 percent more energy than ethanol produces, says Pimentel, a professor of ecology and agriculture.

Energy Gain

Michael Wang, an environmental engineer at the Argonne National Laboratory outside Chicago, says Pimentel is wrong to include energy spent on making fertilizers and pesticides. Ethanol production results in a 33 percent gain in combustible energy, Wang says.

U.S. ethanol inventories swelled to a record 10.3 million barrels in August as production jumped 32 percent from a year earlier and demand growth slowed, the Energy Department said.

Restrictions on when ethanol can be used in Georgia, Florida and other parts of the Southeast are cutting demand by about 3 billion gallons a year, says Eitan Bernstein, an analyst at Friedman Billings Ramsey & Co. in Arlington, Virginia. That total is equal to 45 percent of current national demand. Gasoline use is 142 billion gallons a year.

Tennessee and Arizona are among states that waived or modified rules to permit more ethanol use. Georgia Agriculture Commissioner Tommy Irvin in Atlanta has scheduled hearings for Nov. 27 and Nov. 28 to debate whether to relax fuel regulations. Florida is considering similar changes, says Matt Curran, chief of the state's Bureau of Petroleum Inspection.

`More Friendly' to Ethanol

``We're in the process of trying to make our laws more friendly to the ethanol producers,'' says Jill Stuckey, director of alternative fuels at the Georgia Environmental Facilities Authority.

Georgia and Florida may not increase ethanol use soon enough to deplete the growing supply, Bernstein says. Even with distilleries being canceled or scaled back, so many new mills are under construction that annual U.S. output may reach 11.3 billion gallons by the end of next year, he says.

Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels in 2005 declared the town of Reynolds ``BioTown U.S.A.,'' pledging to make the hamlet of 550 people a showcase for crop-based fuels.

Reynolds's municipal vehicles run on gasoline that's 85 percent ethanol and diesel made from soybeans. Residents received incentives to buy General Motors Corp. cars that can use more ethanol than conventional vehicles.

Closing Shop

Two years later, after ethanol prices tumbled to a 28-month low, VeraSun Energy Corp. of Brookings, South Dakota, halted work on a 110 million-gallon distillery in the town.

Five other projects have been canceled since Oct. 1, including an Alta, Iowa, mill for BioFuel Energy Corp., which sold shares to the public for the first time in June. The stock dropped 55 percent since the offering, wiping out more than $190 million in market value.

The abandoned projects represent 539 million gallons of annual ethanol output, equivalent to 8 percent of current U.S. capacity, according to William Blair & Co., the Chicago-based investment bank.

Kari Elassal, a spokeswoman for D.E. Shaw Group, didn't respond to a message seeking comment for this story. The New York-based firm's holdings include stock in VeraSun, U.S. BioEnergy and Sacramento-based Pacific Ethanol, which have declined an average of 59 percent this year.

Pacific Ethanol fell 18 percent in Nasdaq Stock Market trading today, leading declines by ethanol makers, after saying late last week that Gates may sell his stake.

No Financing

Metalmark Capital LLC, which manages the Morgan Stanley Private Capital funds and controls a stake in ethanol maker Aventine Renewable Energy Holdings Inc., didn't respond to a telephone message seeking comment.

Lenders have cut off funds for mills that weren't already under construction when prices began to drop, says Ron Miller, chief executive officer at Pekin, Illinois-based Aventine.

``Today it's very difficult if not impossible to get financing based upon these current margins,'' Miller said on an Oct. 31 conference call with analysts and investors.

As the price slump prompts more distillers to shelve new plants, production growth will slow, allowing demand to catch up with supply, says Mark Miller, an analyst at William Blair. New production will peak in May, then drop to an 18-month low by October 2008. Prices will begin to rebound in July, he said.

``Through the first half of 2008, the weak margin environment will continue,'' says Christoph Berg, managing director at Hamburg-based commodities researcher F.O. Licht. ``There are no real policy measures or easing of the feedstock markets on the horizon.''

Help From Washington

U.S. distillers' best hope for a recovery rests with attempts by farm-state lawmakers to increase the amount of ethanol in gasoline, Berg says.

Democratic leaders in the House of Representatives and Senate are negotiating on whether a final energy bill should include a Senate plan to increase the so-called renewable fuels mandate to 36 billion gallons a year, more than five times the amount produced now by all 131 U.S. mills.

``Long-term prospects for the industry depend very much on whether a new energy bill requires higher blending targets,'' Berg says. ``Any increase in the mandate would give a psychological lift to the ethanol market.''

Almost one-quarter of the $33.8 billion corn crop is devoted to ethanol, causing food companies to raise prices for tortillas, meat and soda-pop made from corn-based ingredients. Land prices climbed 13 percent in the central U.S. during the second quarter, the biggest increase in at least 27 years, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City.

Khosla Undaunted

Khosla, the Menlo Park, California-based venture capitalist who 25 years ago helped start Sun Microsystems Inc., is undaunted by this year's slump. He founded Range Fuels Inc., which is building a plant in Georgia that will make ethanol from wood chips.

So-called cellulosic ethanol production will create a ``Richter-scale change in the oil industry,'' Khosla said in an interview, adding the fuel will be cheaper to produce than oil. Range Fuels expects to be profitable at ethanol prices of $1.25 a gallon, he says, more than 50 cents below the current futures price.

As for this year's price plunge, Khosla says, ethanol is a commodity, and ``we have to assume that commodity prices will vary.''
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
looks like bears starting to gaining the advantage.....no bounce tomorrow look watch out
 

Give BB 2.5k he makes it 20k within 3 months 99out
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
4,577
Tokens
Great day for the Bears. November has been god awful for bulls like me.




Later
 

bushman
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
14,457
Tokens
Ethanol is going to take a hammering from a LOT of vested interests.

From big oil to their media pals.

Once big oil gets seriously into ethanol then the bullshit will stabilise.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
ethanol from corn is just a complete sham never will be "serious"

your always gonna have to use fertilizers (oil), use machines to harvest it (oil), use energy to process it (oil), use energy to transport it (oil)

the energy balance makes zero sense and never will

now cellulosic ethanol or ethanol from switchgrass okay that's doable but we don't have the technology to do it feasibly as of yet
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
4,000
Tokens
ethanol from corn is just a complete sham never will be "serious"

your always gonna have to use fertilizers (oil), use machines to harvest it (oil), use energy to process it (oil), use energy to transport it (oil)

the energy balance makes zero sense and never will

now cellulosic ethanol or ethanol from switchgrass okay that's doable but we don't have the technology to do it feasibly as of yet

Completely agree. Terrible idea. It will be abandoned going forward.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
also the fact that with corn use for fuel you push prices through the roof in so many other areas as well

corn prices obviously, seed prices (monsanto loving it), meat prices to feed the animals, the list goes on and on

mon (monsanto) might be a good short target now that i think about it

run from just over 7 to 90 (peaked out at 100) in the past 5 year bull chart looks toppy as hell

:lol:
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
yen carry trade unwinding a bit more since US closed

hong kong down 3.5% out of the gate, china down 1.8%

japan ~2% haircut
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
not a fun night in asia land so far

http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=asia

^AORD All Ordinaries 6,468.10 9:22PM ET Down 133.20 (2.02%) Components, Chart, More
^SSEC Shanghai Composite 5,201.06 8:51PM ET Down 68.75 (1.30%) Chart, More
^HSI Hang Seng 26,431.30 9:08PM ET Down 1,028.87 (3.75%) Components, Chart, More
^BSESN BSE 30 19,633.36 5:28AM ET 0.00 (0.00%) Chart, More
^JKSE Jakarta Composite 2,646.81 5:31AM ET 0.00 (0.00%) Components, Chart, More
^KLSE KLSE Composite 1,379.91 4:02AM ET Down 6.73 (0.49%) Components, Chart, More
^N225 Nikkei 225 14,756.67 9:00PM ET Down 285.89 (1.90%) Chart, More
^NZ50 NZSE 50 4,054.39 9:03PM ET Down 60.29 (1.47%) Components, Chart, More
^STI Straits Times 3,338.19 9:23PM ET Down 73.53 (2.16%) Components, Chart, More
^KS11 Seoul Composite 1,825.49 9:23PM ET Down 67.98 (3.59%) Components, Chart, More
^TWII Taiwan Weighted 8,379.23 9:23PM ET Down 301.48 (3.47%) Chart, More
 

I'm still here Mo-fo's
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Messages
8,359
Tokens
yawn.....short tomorrow, another 200 QID, keep rooting it on, make more RP for Treasury Suckretary fliers, and mix a little bleach with some surfactants.

Nice life you got there kid.

Tiz, get ya a misses, buy a house, have a couple kids, and buy some products. Otherwise you tiz part of the problem.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,118,416
Messages
13,554,925
Members
100,622
Latest member
madeinindiamagazine
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com