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role player
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Had a real nice year of profit in the mutual funds I was in this year thanks to the advice of posters here, thank you.

Out as of tomorrow morning, going to let it rest a bit in a money market fund, looking for the next bullish market or sector.

Posted on 10/24/2007

I looked back and these funds have been slammed head first into the ground since.

Better than this though is that on the next day, I had all my wifes mutual fund, stocks and things in her IRA liquidated to be able to move it over to Fidelity where I'm at. Her prior fund has been slammed as well since.

Some say you can't time a market, I don't give a shit, call me jointlucky.

This market sucks the big snake unless your a day trader.
 

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daw just sitting here admiring my stack of pretty coins, like to break em out after days like yesterday

been picking up some real quality companies on the cheap

deep sea drilliers RIG and DO

also added a nice chunk of SSRI

little upset at myself for not shorting those builders myself....I've been hanging out at this housing bubble site since 2005....back when Realtors were regarded as heroes by the public....Not no more. Just a wealth of info on that site and you're right daw fortunes have been made

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/index.html
 

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speaking of realtors....man they really fucked themselves on this one with all the lies. They also fucked alot of hard working people

funny how history repeats. This same shit happened in the 90's.....mid-90's nobody in CA and I mean nobody was talking about RE, and NONE of my buddies wives or GF's were realtors....now they all are. That will change.:finger:
 

Triple digit silver kook
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Ive made some nice gains being short mtg and pmi both mortgage insurers and doubt either company has the money to cover the cascading people collecting from them. Im expecting both companies to soon be bankrupt.

mco is another stock ive remained short and its still in the toilet.

Have daytraded cfc several times. Considering shorting it again but this time trying to roost on it like ive been able to do with the mortgage insurers, but govt and helicopter ben are going to take notice if cfc really nosedives, so Im afraid to make a nest there at least until after the next fed meeting.

Told my mentor about your real estate story last night and he was impressed. I think a good Christmas gift for him is a framed photo of that time magazine cover.
 

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guy on a Charger board I hang at times is a broker at Goldman Sachs....he told me in FEB his firm was loaded up HEAVY on an ultra-short RE fund.....of course I was bearish too so I jumped in for some decent coin but could have made 30-40K if I had hung around a few more months

anyways that's a big reason GS is still showing profits....well that and being privy to all the inside shit. must be nice to know the precise locations of those B52 carpet bombings by BB.


PS - I've got a copy of the time cover on my wall framed....would make an excellent gift:103631605

http://artwork.barewalls.com/artwork/product.html?ArtworkID=197290
 

Triple digit silver kook
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Looks like Ill be watching cnbc for at least another 2 hours.

That darling named Sasha from UK financial times is the guest analyst this afternoon.

:hump:
 

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daw what's your take on buying residential RE in South America, specifically our 2 fav. countries?

I'm having a hard time getting a read on it, especially since i've said all along this is world wide RE bubble, not just U.S.
 

Triple digit silver kook
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I think most of the globe will tank when the us economy tanks, but alot of countries wont be hurt much and will certainly rebound sooner.

I like Argentina, Uraguay, and Panama. Costa Rica is nice, but overrated, and too many gringos there now imho and its overbought.

Argentina is a former superpower thats now affordable and has plenty of commodities to export its way back to prosperity.

Ive had a bad run in sports, but if the stock trading keeps doing well, Ill be ok and will be going to visit central & south america around first of year.

Regardless whether I go in dec/jan, I will be going to Argentina & Uraguay sometime during 2008.

If you are looking for a country in this hemisphere to buy another piece of property, Argentina looks like a good choice.

Belize is another place Ive been told good things about by people that have spent alot of time there. May be a nice place to retire, but imho Belize is a bit too boring for my tastes.
 

Triple digit silver kook
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How much further does fannie mae have to drop until the market falls?

Fnm is one of the top culprits from the housing/mortgage bubble.

Supposedly govt backed paper and too big to fail...we'll see.

One year chart.

big.chart
 

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OPEC Blunder Allows Media To Watch Ministers' Meeting -AFP
2 minutes ago - Dow Jones News
RIYADH (AFP)--A blunder by organizers at an Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries summit in Riyadh enabled journalists to watch a highly sensitive meeting of the foreign, finance and oil ministers from the 12 member countries of the cartel. The gathering, during which the ministers discussed the agenda for a two-day summit of heads of state starting Saturday, was broadcast on close-circuit television in the media room for about 30 minutes.
It featured highly sensitive comments by the foreign ministers of Iran and U.S.-ally Saudi Arabia, who differed sharply over whether to include an expression of concern over the falling U.S. dollar in the summit's final declaration.
Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, who chaired the meeting, said it was a "sensitive" issue which "will cause the dollar to drop further, thus complicating the problems we are facing from the dollar's fall."
The remarkable insight into the inner workings of OPEC, which produces 40% of the world's oil, ended when an official emerged to switch off the television.
 

Living...vicariously through myself.
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people can't even afford 4 dollar coffee anymore?

sbux down 9% in AH

Once again misrepresentimg reality.....

For the 13 weeks ended Sept. 30, Starbucks posted net earnings of $158.5 million, or 21 cents a share, a 35 percent jump from $117.3 million, or 15 cents a share, for the same period last year. Quarterly revenue was $2.44 billion, up from $2 billion last year.
 

Living...vicariously through myself.
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one more before i gotta run

fedex a good indicator of overall economic activity i guess they blaming oil though

------------------------------------------------------------

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071116/fedex_outlook.html

FedEx Cuts 2Q, Full-Year Outlook
Friday November 16, 9:50 am ET
FedEx Cuts Outlook for 2nd Quarter and Full Year on Rising Fuel Costs, Freight Slump

MEMPHIS, Tenn. (AP) -- FedEx Corp. cut its earnings expectations for the fiscal second quarter and full year, citing soaring fuel costs and a troubled U.S. freight market.

Its shares sank nearly 5 percent in morning trading.

Why is Fedex a good barometer?
fdx


I mean the last recession doesnt even register based on this chart.

Howd I know youd start posting the negative govt data points...lol
 

bushman
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In the 1980s the only currency I carried abroad was dollars, and I went around the world about 5 times in 7 years.

Dollars were the biz, it didn't matter where you were.

If people stop taking them because they become too unstable this will have a BIG negative effect on the buck, people will start to unload their dollar hoard all around the globe.

Dollars no good for the Taj Mahal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7098370.stm

The Russians for example, have billions of dollars stashed under mattresses kinda thing.
 

bushman
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When they found Saddam in that mound of dirt did he have a suitcase stuffed with shiny Ron Paul gold sovereigns, or was Saddam carrying thick wedges of greenbacks?


Dollars are the biz, if they're stable.
 

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"The End is Nigh!" Cries Paul Volcker, as Heads Topple at Merrill Lynch and Citigroup
Welcome to Year 27 of the Reagan Revolution
By MIKE WHITNEY

Last Wednesday, the Federal Reserve dropped its benchmark interest rate by 25 basis points to 4.5 per cent citing ongoing weakness in the housing sector. As expected, the stock market rallied and the Dow Jones Industrial Average went up137 points. Unfortunately, Bernanke's "low interest" stardust wasn't enough to buoy the markets through the rest of the week.

On Thursday, the hammer fell. The Dow plunged 362 points in one afternoon on increasing fears of inflation, a slowdown in consumer spending, a steadily weakening dollar and persistent problems in the credit markets. By day's end, the Fed was forced to dump another $41 billion into the banking system to forestall a major breakdown. This is the most money the Fed has pumped into the financial system since 9/11/2001 and it shows how dire the situation really is.

Why do the banks need such a huge infusion of credit if they are as "rock solid" as Bernanke says?

As most people now realize, the mortgage industry is on life-support. Many of the ways that the banks were generating profits have vanished overnight. The "securitization" of debt (mortgages, car loans, credit card debt etc) has ground to a halt. What had been a booming multi-billion dollar per-year business is now a dwindling part of the banks' revenues. Investors are steering clear of anything even remotely associated to real estate.

Additionally, the banks are holding an estimated $200 billion in mortgage-backed securities and derivatives for which there is currently no market. This is compounded by $350 billion in "off balance sheets" operations -- which are collateralized with dodgy long-term mortgage-backed securities -- that provide funding for "short-term" asset-backed commercial paper. ASCP has shriveled by $275 billion in the last 10 weeks leaving the banks with gargantuan liabilities. Bernanke was forced to add $41 billion to keep the banking system from slipping beneath the waves. But that's just a short-term fix. In the long run, the Fed has less chance of stopping the market from correcting than it does of stopping a runaway truck by standing in its path. Besides, the Fed cannot purchase the banks' bad investments (CDOs, MBSs, or CP) nor can it reflate the multi-trillion dollar the housing bubble. All it can do is provide more cheap credit and hope the problems go away.

So far, the lower rates haven't even decreased the price of the 30-year mortgage or made refinancing any cheaper. In truth, they're just a desperate attempt to perpetuate consumer borrowing while the banks figure out how to offload their enormous debts. That's what Paulson's $80 billion "Banker's Bankruptcy Fund" is really all about; it's just the repackaging of subprime junk so it can be passed off to credulous investors. Fortunately, the public has wised up and isn't buying into this latest fraud. As a result, the banks have taken another blow to their already-flagging credibility.

In the last two months, the pool of qualified mortgage applicants has contracted, as has the market for merger and acquisition deals (private equity). So the banks are probably doing more with the Fed's $41 billion injection than just beefing up their reserves and issuing new loans. The market analysts at Minyanville.com summed it up like this:

"Banks are taking the liquidity the Fed is forcing out there through the discount window and repos. After using it to shore up the declining value of their assets, they have excess to lend out. Finding no traditional borrowers that want to buy a house or build a factory, the new rules the Fed has set forth allows the banks to pass this liquidity onto their broker dealer subsidiaries in much greater quantities. These broker dealers are lending thus to hedge funds and margin buyers who are speculating in stocks. Remember, the Fed is powerless unless it can find people to borrow the credit it wants them to spend. By definition, the last ones willing to take that credit are the most speculative."

This is a likely scenario given the fact that the stock market continues to fly high despite the surge of bad news on everything from the falling dollar to the geopolitical rumblings in the Middle East. Last month, the Fed modified its rules so that the banks could provide resources to their off-balance sheets operations (SIVs and conduits). If the Fed is willing to rubber-stamp that type of monkey-business; then why would they mind if the money was stealthily "back-doored" into the stock market via the hedge funds?

This might explain why the hedge funds account for as much as 40 to 50 per cent of all trading on an average day. It also explains why the stock market is overheating.

The charade cannot go on forever. And it won't. Rate cuts do not address the underlying problem which is bad investments. The debts must be accounted for and written off. Nothing else will do. That doesn't mean that Bernanke will suddenly decide to stop savaging the dollar or flushing hundreds of billions of dollars down the investment bank toilet. He probably will. But, eventually, the blow-ups in the housing market will destabilize the financial system and send the banks and over-leveraged hedge funds sprawling. Bernanke's low interest "giveaway" will amount to nothing.

Bloomberg News ran a story last week which sheds more light on the jam the banks now find themselves in:

"Banks shut out of the market for short-term loans are finding salvation in a government lending program set up to revive housing during the Great Depression. Countrywide Financial Corp., Washington Mutual Inc., Hudson City Bancorp Inc. and hundreds of other lenders borrowed a record $163 billion from the 12 Federal Home Loan Banks in August and September as interest rates on asset-backed commercial paper rose as high as 5.6 percent. The government-sponsored companies were able to make loans at about 4.9 percent, saving the private banks about $1 billion in annual interest."

Whoa. So, now that the credit markets have frozen over, the banks are going to the government with begging bowl in hand? So much for "moral hazard".

Commercial paper is short-term notes that businesses use for daily operations. Because much of this CP is backed by mortgage-backed securities the banks have been having trouble rolling it over. (Refinancing) So -- unbeknownst to the public -- various banks have been borrowing from the government-sponsored Federal Home Loan Banks (FHLB) so they can cut their losses (or stay afloat?) The FHLB has extended $163 billion of loans to them, which means that the risks that are inherent in supporting "dodgy banks that make bad bets" has been transferred to FHLB's investors. The danger, of course, is that-when investors find out that FHLB is mixed up with these shaky banks, they are liable to sell their shares and trigger a collapse of the system.

Citi's Woes

Over the weekend, Citigroup's CEO Chuck Prince got the axe. Citigroup, which boasts more than 300,000 staff worldwide, has lost more than 20 per cent of its market value from bad bets in sub-prime mortgages. According to the Times Online: "The Securities and Exchange Commission may investigate whether it improperly juggled its books to hide the full extent of the problem."

"Juggled" is not a word that is taken lightly on Wall Street where traders are now bracing for another sell-off of financial stocks. Mr. Prince is not alone in the unemployment line either. He's be accompanied by Merrill Lynch's former boss, Stanley O' Neal who got the boot last week when his firm reported $8.4 billion in write-downs. Deutsche Bank analysts now predict that Merrill may write off another $10 billion of losses related to its portfolio of sub-prime debts. That would wipe out 8 full quarters of earnings and represent the largest loss in Wall Street history.

The news is bleak. The systemic rot is appearing everywhere presaging ongoing losses for the financial giants and a long-downward spiral for the markets. The banks are currently under-regulated, over-leveraged and under capitalized.

Former Fed chief Paul Volcker summarized the overall economic situation last week at the second annual summit of the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research. In his speech he said:

"Altogether, the circumstances seem as dangerous and intractable as I can remember.Boomers are spending like there is no tomorrow. Homeownership has become a vehicle for borrowing and leveraging as much as a source of financial security.. As a Nation we are consumingabout 6 per cent more than we are producing. What holds it all together? - High consumption - high leverage - government deficits - What holds it all together is a really massive and growing flow of capital from abroad. A flow of capital that today runs to more than $2 billion per day." The nation is facing "huge imbalances and risks."

Volcker is right. The country is in a bigger pickle than any time in its 230 year history. The credit storm that was engineered at the Federal Reserve has swept across the planet and is now descending on commercial real estate, credit card debt, and the plummeting bond insurers industry. These are the next shoes to drop and the tremors will be felt throughout the broader economy.

As this article is being written, Reuters is reporting that Citigroup may be forced to write-down as much as $11 billion in subprime mortgage-related losses!

Reuters: "Citigroup announced today significant declines since September 30, 2007 in the fair value of the approximately $55 billion in U.S. sub-prime related direct exposures in its Securities and Banking (S&B) business. Citi estimates that, at the present time, the reduction in revenues attributable to these declines ranges from approximately $8 billion to $11 billion (representing a decline of approximately $5 billion to $7 billion in net income on an after-tax basis)."

Citigroup's statement indicates a willingness on its part to come clean with its investors but, in fact, they know that the situation is fluid and there'll be hefty losses in the future. Mortgage-backed securities (MBSs) and collateralized debt obligations (CDOs) will continue to be downgraded as time goes by. According to the Financial Times, one banker was having so much difficulty getting a bid on subprime securities; he found the only way he could get rid of them was through "barter. He resorted to using a tactic more normally associated with third world markets than the supposedly sophisticated arena of high finance. 'Barter is the only thing that works,' he chuckled, 'It's like the Dark Ages'" The article continues:

"Never mind the fact that the risky tranches of subprime-linked debt have fallen 80 per cent since the start of the year; in a sense, such declines are only natural for risky assets in a credit storm. Instead, what is really alarming is that the assets which were supposed to be ultra-safe - namely AAA and AA rated tranches of debt - have collapsed in value by 20 per cent and 50 per cent odd respectively. This is dangerous, given that financial institutions of all stripes have been merrily leveraging up AAA and AA paper in recent years, precisely because it was supposed to be ultra-safe and thus, er, never lose value." (Financial Times; Gillian Tett)

AAA and AA assets---the top-graded tranches--- have already been downgraded by 20 per cent to 50 per cent! And the prices are bound to fall even more because there is no market for mortgage-backed securities. This is a bank's worst nightmare; an asset that loses value and requires greater capital reserves every day. In fact, AAA rated MBSs have dropped 14 per cent in one month. It is truly, death by a thousand cuts.

The US financial system is now buckling beneath the weight of its own excesses. The subprime contagion---which can trace its origins to the expansion of credit at the Federal Reserve -- has devastated the housing market generating an unprecedented number of foreclosures, record inventory, and a multi-trillion dollar equity bubble which is now deflating and wiping out much of the mortgage industry in its path. Its effects on the secondary market have been even more devastating where pension funds, insurance companies, hedge funds and foreign banks are left holding hundreds of billions of dollars of complex, mortgage-backed securities and subprime-related derivatives which are now destined to be downgraded to pennies on the dollar ravaging once-robust portfolios. The subprime meltdown has been equally damaging to myriad European investment banks and brokerage houses. We've seen a wave of bank closings in France, Germany and England which has left investors shell-shocked, triggering capital flight from American markets and supplanting confidence in the US financial system with growing suspicion and rage. Where are the regulators?

According to Bloomberg News, "European and Asian investors will avoid most US mortgage-backed securities for years without guarantees from government-linked entities creating an enormous drag on the US housing market". Foreign investors believe they were hoodwinked by bonds that were deliberately mis-rated to maximize profits for the investment banks. This may explain why $882 billion has been diverted into Chinese and Indian stock markets in the last month alone.

The biggest losers of all, however, are the financial giants that created most of the abstruse, debt-instruments that are now devouring the system from within. The productive and "wealth creating" components of the economy have been subordinated to a finance-driven model which suddenly derailed due to the abusive expansion of debt. Inevitably, some of the banks that took the greatest risks will be shuttered and trillions of dollars in market capitalization will disappear.

Is it possible that anyone with a pulse and a minimal ability to reason couldn't see the inherent problems of building a financial edifice on the prospect that millions of first-time homeowners with bad credit history and no collateral would pay off there mortgages in a timely and responsible manner?

No. It is not possible. The real reason that the subprime swindle mushroomed into an economy-busting monster is that the markets are no longer policed by any agency that believes in intervention. The pervasive "free market" ideology rejects the notion of supervision or oversight, and as a result, the markets have become increasingly opaque and unresponsive to rules that may assure their continued credibility or even their ability to function properly.

The "supply side" avatars of deregulation have transformed the world's most vital and prosperous markets into a huckster's shell-game. All regulatory accountability has vanished along with trillions of dollars in foreign investment. What's left is a flea-market for dodgy loans, dubious over-leveraged equities and "securitized" Triple A-rated garbage.

Let's hear it for the Reagan Revolution.

What is striking is how the new "structured finance" paradigm replicates a political system which is no longer guided by principle or integrity. It is not coincidental that the same flag that flies over Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib flutters over Wall Street as well. Nor is it accidental that the same system that peddles bogus, subprime tripe to gullible investors also elevates a "waterboarding advocate" to the highest position in the Justice Department. Both phenomena emerge from the same fetid swamp.

Mike Whitney

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney11062007.html
 

Triple digit silver kook
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So when is the Christmas rally going to begin?

Big shots on Wall Street arent going to get whopping bonuses if they dont get the market higher.

hola
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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Maybe Ahmadinejad does want to get bombed after all calling USD worthless piece of paper

--------------------------------------------------------

OPEC Interested in Non-Dollar Currency
Sunday November 18, 6:46 pm ET
By Sebastian Abbot, Associated Press Writer <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="4"><tbody><tr><td height="4">
</td></tr></tbody></table>Ahmadinejad: OPEC Members Interested in Converting Cash Reserves Into Non-Dollar Currency RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Sunday that OPEC's members have expressed interest in converting their cash reserves into a currency other than the depreciating U.S. dollar, which he called a "worthless piece of paper."

His comments at the end of a rare summit of OPEC heads of state exposed fissures within the 13-member cartel -- especially after U.S. ally Saudi Arabia was reluctant to mention concerns about the falling dollar in the summit's final declaration.

The hardline Iranian leader's comments also highlighted the growing challenge that Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil producer, faces from Iran and its ally Venezuela within the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.


"They get our oil and give us a worthless piece of paper," Ahmadinejad told reporters after the close of the summit in the Saudi capital of Riyadh. He blamed U.S. President George W. Bush's policies for the decline of the dollar and its negative effect on other countries.


Oil is priced in U.S. dollars on the world market, and the currency's depreciation has concerned oil producers because it has contributed to rising crude prices and has eroded the value of their dollar reserves.
"All participating leaders showed an interest in changing their hard currency reserves to a credible hard currency," Ahmadinejad said. "Some said producing countries should designate a single hard currency aside from the U.S. dollar ... to form the basis of our oil trade."


Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez echoed this sentiment Sunday on the sidelines of the summit, saying "the empire of the dollar has to end."
"Don't you see how the dollar has been in free-fall without a parachute?" Chavez said, calling the euro a better option.


Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah had tried to direct the focus of the summit toward studying the effect of the oil industry on the environment, but he continuously faced challenges from Ahmadinejad and Chavez.
Iran and Venezuela have proposed trading oil in a basket of currencies to replace the historic link to the dollar, but they had not been able to generate support from enough fellow OPEC members -- many of whom, including Saudi Arabia, are staunch U.S. allies.


Both Iran and Venezuela have antagonistic relationships with the U.S., suggesting their proposals may have a political motivation as well. While Tehran has been in a standoff with Washington over its nuclear program, left-wing Chavez is a bitter antagonist of Bush. U.S. sanctions on Iran also have made it increasingly difficult for the country to do business in dollars.
During Chavez's opening address to the summit on Saturday, the Venezuelan leader said OPEC should "assert itself as an active political agent." But Abdullah appeared to distance himself from Chavez's comments, saying OPEC always acted moderately and wisely.


A day earlier, Saudi Arabia opposed a move by Iran on Friday to have OPEC include concerns over the falling dollar included in the summit's closing statement after the weekend meeting. Saudi Arabia's foreign minister even warned that even talking publicly about the currency's decline could further hurt its value.


But by Sunday, it appeared that Saudi Arabia had compromised. Though the final declaration delivered Sunday did not specifically mention concern over the weak dollar, the organization directed its finance ministers to study the issue.


OPEC will "study ways and means of enhancing financial cooperation among OPEC ... including proposals by some of the heads of state and governments in their statements to the summit," OPEC Secretary General Abdalla Salem el-Badri said, reading the statement.


Iran's oil minister went a step further and said OPEC will form a committee to study the dollar's affect on oil prices and investigate the possibility of a currency basket.


"We have agreed to set up a committee consisting of oil and finance ministers from OPEC countries to study the impact of the dollar on oil prices," Gholam Hussein Nozari told Dow Jones Newswires.


Iraqi Oil Minister Hussein al-Shahristani said the committee would "submit to OPEC its recommendation on a basket of currencies that OPEC members will deal with." He did not give a timeline for the recommendation.
The meeting in Riyadh, with heads of states and delegates from 13 of the world's biggest oil-producing nations, was the third full OPEC summit since the organization was created in 1960.


Abdullah tried to take the focus off the dollar debate, announcing the donation of $300 million to set up a program to study the effect of the oil industry on the environment. Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates also agreed to donate $150 million each to the fund, Prince Saud Al-Faisal, Saudi Arabia's foreign minister, said Sunday.


The run-up to the meeting was dominated by speculation over whether OPEC would raise production following recent oil price increases that have approached $100. But cartel officials have resisted pressure to increase oil production and said they will hold off any decision until the group meets next month in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates.


They have also cast doubt on the effect any output hike would have on oil prices, saying the recent rise has been driven by the falling dollar and financial speculation by investment funds rather than any supply shortage.
During his final remarks, el-Badri stressed he was committed to supply -- but did not mention changing oil outputs.


"We affirm our commitment ... to continue providing adequate, timely, efficient, economic and reliable petroleum supplies to the world market," he said.
 

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I'm having a difficult time finding anything online that suggests this same line of thought... it makes sense to me though, and if OPEC backs out of the dollar, we are going to be seriously fucked..

what happened before when the US dollar wasn't the US currency? When it was inflated wasn't it devalued?

Worst case scenario what do you more experienced financial guys foresee happening in the future when other countries decide that the US dollar isn't the great idea and they start backing up?
A domino effect? and whoever is holding onto cash gets burned by inflation and a sharp drop??

I'm sorry to be asking the same question over and over again but I'm starting to buy into the idea more and more and becoming a little more bearish :howdy:
 

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