looks like AIG holding the ship down haven't seen any official story about what this is all about
in the past there were AIG rumors floating around and in the end just caused for a massive market reversal....once they yelled the all clear signal
maybe good prelude to trap some people pre jan retail sales tomorrow
anyway i'm rambling nonsense
here's all i know for now
DJ Newswire 9:12 AIG Advised of internal control weakness
currently down over 10% (that's over 10 billion in market cap going poof)
in the past there were AIG rumors floating around and in the end just caused for a massive market reversal....once they yelled the all clear signal
maybe good prelude to trap some people pre jan retail sales tomorrow
anyway i'm rambling nonsense
here's all i know for now
DJ Newswire 9:12 AIG Advised of internal control weakness
currently down over 10% (that's over 10 billion in market cap going poof)
has to do with their toxic CDOs
AIG, one of the 30 Dow Jones industrials, said in a regulatory filing Monday it would need to alter the way it values credit default swaps involving collateralized debt obligations. CDOs are funds that contain slices of bonds, some of which are backed by mortgages. The insurer said auditors found it "had a material weakness in its internal control over financial reporting and oversight" regarding how it valued certain credit default swaps.
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uncertainty is a bitch
only problem with this whole situation is the financials don't wanna open this shit up and tell the markets what they got cause its some downright toxic shit
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no bid on aig yet down 11.35%
AIG, one of the 30 Dow Jones industrials, said in a regulatory filing Monday it would need to alter the way it values credit default swaps involving collateralized debt obligations. CDOs are funds that contain slices of bonds, some of which are backed by mortgages. The insurer said auditors found it "had a material weakness in its internal control over financial reporting and oversight" regarding how it valued certain credit default swaps.
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uncertainty is a bitch
only problem with this whole situation is the financials don't wanna open this shit up and tell the markets what they got cause its some downright toxic shit
------------
no bid on aig yet down 11.35%
biggest one day drop for aig since someday in 1987 wonder what day that could be :think2:
sorry i'm bad
onto more description of what's going on with AIG
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NEW YORK, Feb 11 (Reuters) - American International Group Inc (AIG.N: Quote, Profile, Research), the world's largest insurer, on Monday disclosed that its auditors questioned the company's internal controls over its valuation of derivatives, sending its shares down more than 11 percent.
The disclosure cast doubt on AIG's past contention that it didn't face major problems stemming from the credit crisis that has slammed other financial institutions.
PricewaterhouseCoopers, the company's outside auditors, concluded that the company had a material weakness in its internal control over financial reporting relating to the fair valuation of credit default swap portfolio obligations of AIG Financial Products Corp, the company disclosed in a regulatory filing.
AIG has not yet determined how much the value of AIG Financial's super senior credit default swap portfolio had declined as of Dec 31, 2007, the company said.
It disclosed that earlier estimates had included an adjustment for cash flow diversion. However due to difficult market conditions it will not include the adjustment in determining the fair value of AIGFP's super senior credit default swap portfolio.
In October and November, the cumulative decline in net valuation of cash flow diversion totaled $4.88 billion.
AIG shares were down $5.70, or 11.3 percent, at $44.98 in morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange. (Reporting by Lilla Zuill, editing by Mark Porter)
sorry i'm bad
onto more description of what's going on with AIG
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NEW YORK, Feb 11 (Reuters) - American International Group Inc (AIG.N: Quote, Profile, Research), the world's largest insurer, on Monday disclosed that its auditors questioned the company's internal controls over its valuation of derivatives, sending its shares down more than 11 percent.
The disclosure cast doubt on AIG's past contention that it didn't face major problems stemming from the credit crisis that has slammed other financial institutions.
PricewaterhouseCoopers, the company's outside auditors, concluded that the company had a material weakness in its internal control over financial reporting relating to the fair valuation of credit default swap portfolio obligations of AIG Financial Products Corp, the company disclosed in a regulatory filing.
AIG has not yet determined how much the value of AIG Financial's super senior credit default swap portfolio had declined as of Dec 31, 2007, the company said.
It disclosed that earlier estimates had included an adjustment for cash flow diversion. However due to difficult market conditions it will not include the adjustment in determining the fair value of AIGFP's super senior credit default swap portfolio.
In October and November, the cumulative decline in net valuation of cash flow diversion totaled $4.88 billion.
AIG shares were down $5.70, or 11.3 percent, at $44.98 in morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange. (Reporting by Lilla Zuill, editing by Mark Porter)
the utter lack of fear in the markets continues to astound, day after day bombshells like AIG comeout and markets just kinda yawn
yeah i know we are 15% off the highs but we've been going on the doom and gloom for over a year now (whenever housing started to crater)
anyway we'll see if any fireworks bust out when we bust through to new lows on this bear leg down (well i guess we could bounce before than but the probability in my mind is very low)
yeah i know we are 15% off the highs but we've been going on the doom and gloom for over a year now (whenever housing started to crater)
anyway we'll see if any fireworks bust out when we bust through to new lows on this bear leg down (well i guess we could bounce before than but the probability in my mind is very low)
I think it was predicted in this thread months ago that they would change the DOW around to suit their needs
weed out the pigs and throw in another commodity company....more proof we are in a longterm commodity bull market
BOA is a bit puzzling on the surface. may see a floor in that sector sooner than I thought
weed out the pigs and throw in another commodity company....more proof we are in a longterm commodity bull market
BOA is a bit puzzling on the surface. may see a floor in that sector sooner than I thought
yeah i know jdog that's why i kinda gave you crap about it cause i see people use the term anytime there is a positive movement into the face of bad news
anyway this rally is BS really light volume (awaiting retail sales), good last chance to bail ship before the storm IMO
think they were intent on ramping this puppy quite a bit prior to retail sales for fun, but AIG put a bit of a damper on their party
anyway this rally is BS really light volume (awaiting retail sales), good last chance to bail ship before the storm IMO
think they were intent on ramping this puppy quite a bit prior to retail sales for fun, but AIG put a bit of a damper on their party
they drug out dubya again today too for hell of it
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Bush Gives Update on Economy
Monday February 11, 1:23 pm ET
Bush to Give Congress Fresh Economic Assessment
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush says the economy is structurally sound for the long haul, and that the stimulus package approved by Congress will help deal with uncertainties in the short term.
The president signed an economic report to be delivered to Congress, an annual tradition like his State of the Union address and his budget proposal.
On Wednesday, Bush expects to sign the stimulus package of tax rebates and incentives for businesses. He said "money will be going directly to American workers and families and individuals."
--------------
Bush Gives Update on Economy
Monday February 11, 1:23 pm ET
Bush to Give Congress Fresh Economic Assessment
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush says the economy is structurally sound for the long haul, and that the stimulus package approved by Congress will help deal with uncertainties in the short term.
The president signed an economic report to be delivered to Congress, an annual tradition like his State of the Union address and his budget proposal.
On Wednesday, Bush expects to sign the stimulus package of tax rebates and incentives for businesses. He said "money will be going directly to American workers and families and individuals."
yup everything is just rosey LOL...
man i say everyday i tell myself i got it pretty good right now compared to others....
on another note i read the ebay article and id like to know exactly what they are bumping bc i know they lowered listing fees and also waived the gallery fees which is very good for myself....
man i say everyday i tell myself i got it pretty good right now compared to others....
on another note i read the ebay article and id like to know exactly what they are bumping bc i know they lowered listing fees and also waived the gallery fees which is very good for myself....
GM reports tomorrow too
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GM's North America Loss May Top Analysts' Estimates, People Say
By Jeff Green
Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. tomorrow may report a fourth-quarter loss in North America that tops analysts' estimates because of slumping vehicle sales and higher discounts, two people familiar with the results said.
The world's largest automaker increased incentives to keep pace with Toyota Motor Corp. rebates on pickup trucks, said the people, who asked not to be named because the figures haven't been disclosed. GM's sales in the region fell 5 percent during the quarter.
The average analyst's estimate is for a North American pretax loss of more than $400 million, Chris Ceraso, a New York- based Credit Suisse analyst, wrote in a Jan. 31 report. He estimated GM may have lost $575 million.
The performance may signal a setback for Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner's plan to revive North American operations. Through the first three quarters, GM shaved operating losses in North America by more than half, to $400 million, while boosting profit overseas, where the Detroit-based automaker now gets 59 percent of its unit volume.
GM doesn't provide earnings forecasts. Spokesman Randy Arickx declined to comment. The company lost $14 million in North America in the year-earlier period.
Including international operations, GM is forecast to report a loss of 64 cents a share, excluding one-time costs or gains, the average estimate of 14 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg. GM earned $180 million, or 32 cents a share, in the fourth quarter of 2006.
GM shares rose $1.35, or 5.2 percent, to $27.15 at 3:20 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares have dropped 22 percent in the past1 2 months.
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GM's North America Loss May Top Analysts' Estimates, People Say
By Jeff Green
Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. tomorrow may report a fourth-quarter loss in North America that tops analysts' estimates because of slumping vehicle sales and higher discounts, two people familiar with the results said.
The world's largest automaker increased incentives to keep pace with Toyota Motor Corp. rebates on pickup trucks, said the people, who asked not to be named because the figures haven't been disclosed. GM's sales in the region fell 5 percent during the quarter.
The average analyst's estimate is for a North American pretax loss of more than $400 million, Chris Ceraso, a New York- based Credit Suisse analyst, wrote in a Jan. 31 report. He estimated GM may have lost $575 million.
The performance may signal a setback for Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner's plan to revive North American operations. Through the first three quarters, GM shaved operating losses in North America by more than half, to $400 million, while boosting profit overseas, where the Detroit-based automaker now gets 59 percent of its unit volume.
GM doesn't provide earnings forecasts. Spokesman Randy Arickx declined to comment. The company lost $14 million in North America in the year-earlier period.
Including international operations, GM is forecast to report a loss of 64 cents a share, excluding one-time costs or gains, the average estimate of 14 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg. GM earned $180 million, or 32 cents a share, in the fourth quarter of 2006.
GM shares rose $1.35, or 5.2 percent, to $27.15 at 3:20 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares have dropped 22 percent in the past1 2 months.
more signs of problems in bond land
-----------------------------------
Auction-Bond Failures Spread to Student Loan Debt (Update1)
By Michael Quint and Martin Z. Braun
Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- College Loan Corp., a San Diego- based lender, said some bonds it issued with rates determined through periodic auctions failed to attract enough bids.
The company wouldn't say which specific issues failed or identify the banks that managed the auctions.
Demand for bonds in the $360 billion auction-rate securities market is waning on investor concern that dealers who collect fees for managing the bidding on the bonds won't commit their own capital to prevent failures. Reduced appetite for auction-rate debt in the municipal market also reflects expectations that the credit strength of insurers backing the securities may deteriorate.
``It is unfortunate that certain auctions did not clear,'' said John Falb, chief financial officer at College Loan in an e- mailed statement. Falb said investors couldn't have been concerned about the quality of the College Loan Corp. bonds, which are backed by government-guaranteed student loans.
Auction bonds issued by Sallie Mae, the largest student loan lender, also failed to attract enough bidders last week, according to a report today by Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, a New York-based securities firm. The report said weak demand for auction securities may not extend to other debt backed by the same pool of student loans.
Thomas Joyce, a spokesman for Reston, Virginia-based Sallie Mae, couldn't be reached for comment on the status of the company's auction securities.
Failure Consequences
Auction bonds have interest rates that are determined by bidding that typically occurs every seven, 28 or 35 days. When there aren't enough buyers, as has occurred in recent months on some securities, the auction fails and bondholders who wanted to sell are left holding the securities. Rates at failed auctions are set at a level spelled out in bond documents.
Fitch Ratings in a Dec. 19 report said some issuers of student-loan backed securities ``have been faced with the possibility of failed auctions.'' Ratings on the debt may be cut as rising rates at auctions shrink the gap between what the student loan companies pay on their bonds and what they collect on the student loans they hold, Fitch said.
``It seems that the dealers are no longer willing to bid in large amounts for these issues,'' said Lee Epstein, chief executive at Money Market One, San Francisco-based securities firm specializing in short-term securities.
Dealer Support
Bidding by dealers is essential to the smooth functioning of auction securities and banks are now wary of loading their balance sheets with the bonds, Epstein said. Failures are concentrated in securities that were privately sold, he added.
Officials at Sallie Mae, the largest student loan lender, couldn't be reached for comment on the status of their auction securities.
In the municipal market, at least two auctions run by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. failed on Jan. 22, the first day the bond investors could react to a ratings downgrade of Ambac Financial Group Inc.'s main insurance units.
Debt issued by electric utility Nevada Power reset at 6.757 percent, the maximum proscribed under the terms of the bonds, while securities from Georgetown University reset at 6.604 percent. Ambac insures Nevada Power's debt, while MBIA Inc.'s MBIA Insurance Corp. guarantees Georgetown's debt.
-----------------------------------
Auction-Bond Failures Spread to Student Loan Debt (Update1)
By Michael Quint and Martin Z. Braun
Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- College Loan Corp., a San Diego- based lender, said some bonds it issued with rates determined through periodic auctions failed to attract enough bids.
The company wouldn't say which specific issues failed or identify the banks that managed the auctions.
Demand for bonds in the $360 billion auction-rate securities market is waning on investor concern that dealers who collect fees for managing the bidding on the bonds won't commit their own capital to prevent failures. Reduced appetite for auction-rate debt in the municipal market also reflects expectations that the credit strength of insurers backing the securities may deteriorate.
``It is unfortunate that certain auctions did not clear,'' said John Falb, chief financial officer at College Loan in an e- mailed statement. Falb said investors couldn't have been concerned about the quality of the College Loan Corp. bonds, which are backed by government-guaranteed student loans.
Auction bonds issued by Sallie Mae, the largest student loan lender, also failed to attract enough bidders last week, according to a report today by Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, a New York-based securities firm. The report said weak demand for auction securities may not extend to other debt backed by the same pool of student loans.
Thomas Joyce, a spokesman for Reston, Virginia-based Sallie Mae, couldn't be reached for comment on the status of the company's auction securities.
Failure Consequences
Auction bonds have interest rates that are determined by bidding that typically occurs every seven, 28 or 35 days. When there aren't enough buyers, as has occurred in recent months on some securities, the auction fails and bondholders who wanted to sell are left holding the securities. Rates at failed auctions are set at a level spelled out in bond documents.
Fitch Ratings in a Dec. 19 report said some issuers of student-loan backed securities ``have been faced with the possibility of failed auctions.'' Ratings on the debt may be cut as rising rates at auctions shrink the gap between what the student loan companies pay on their bonds and what they collect on the student loans they hold, Fitch said.
``It seems that the dealers are no longer willing to bid in large amounts for these issues,'' said Lee Epstein, chief executive at Money Market One, San Francisco-based securities firm specializing in short-term securities.
Dealer Support
Bidding by dealers is essential to the smooth functioning of auction securities and banks are now wary of loading their balance sheets with the bonds, Epstein said. Failures are concentrated in securities that were privately sold, he added.
Officials at Sallie Mae, the largest student loan lender, couldn't be reached for comment on the status of their auction securities.
In the municipal market, at least two auctions run by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. failed on Jan. 22, the first day the bond investors could react to a ratings downgrade of Ambac Financial Group Inc.'s main insurance units.
Debt issued by electric utility Nevada Power reset at 6.757 percent, the maximum proscribed under the terms of the bonds, while securities from Georgetown University reset at 6.604 percent. Ambac insures Nevada Power's debt, while MBIA Inc.'s MBIA Insurance Corp. guarantees Georgetown's debt.
