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now if you are telling me we are not heading into a recession and economies are going to continue to expand albeit at a slower rate or whatever than okay i'm on the inflationary train

:103631605:103631605

I've said for 6 months we are already are in a recession. However, the GOVT tinkers with the figures, so "officially" we are not.

I'm still not 100% sold on an "official" recession in 08. 60/40 for at this point....but ya know what. who cares? what does it change? we are in one now.

if we do enter an "official" recession, it will be short, much like 2001, because like then they will turn on the money spigots....at a much higher rate than 2001 because this bubble much worse

I think western economies will definatley expand at a much slower rate, as a result asia and india will to. but with those we're talking slowing from 20% to 10%

hyper-inflationary depression imho within 2 years
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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your not answering my question

you can toss money and rate cuts at the problem all you want it don't make one bit of difference if nobody wants to take on debt

also yen carry trade is a nother bubble to add to the long list that has run its course IMO

what is value out there right now?

who's gonna buy what?

we've run out of bubbles IMO

you do know you can have deflation at home and still have your currency fall in value with respect to other worthless fiat right?

see japan
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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a USD dollar quote is nothing more than a reference with respect to other fiat currencies

has no bearing on the cost of homes, food, gasoline, electronics whatever at home
 

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what is value? in the US it is large cap blue chips. ENERGY. precious metals and especially the junior miners. there are a lot of things on sale right now. infrastructure stocks, some tech.

financial, retail, starbucks, bonds, RE, consumer discretionary. That stuff is toast.

who is going to buy it? there was ALOT of money made in RE sitting on the sidelines, and ALOT of wealthy people in the US.

but mostly foreigners. we buy everything from china. all our energy from overseas. these guys are sitting on mountains of US dollars that are being devalued by 10% every year. They're gonna be buying something with it(already are) priced in USD- SOVERIEGN WEALTH FUNDS
 

Triple digit silver kook
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tiz you're like talking to a brick wall.

bottom line is nothing I say or anybody else is going to change your opinion.


not only is the chance of deflation at near zero, but the odds of hyperinflation are at over 95%

we'll find out soon who was right

you guys (deflationists) are on the right track. you know shit is screwed up, understand how we got here for the most part, and you know there is going to be hell to pay, but just lack the basic fundemental knowledge of how to put it all together. (IMHO) - your boy Paul gets it.

Forget about what anyone says to him, he doesnt even change his mind and keeps posting that deflation is inevitable eventhough the MARKET is and has been disagreeing with his ideas.

Find out who is right? I'd say the market has already made that decision and it wasn't a knockout via tko. The deflationists were long ago knocked out.

If he truly believed all this deflation stuff, why not short gold and silver?

Dow 14k

Gold $900 +

Oil $100

US peso < euro & for a while cad.

Case closed imho.



:think2:
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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S&P at average p/e of 19 as of 12/31/07 with a slowing probably going into recession economy is not value

i mean there might be a few things here and there but overall there isn't enough value overall

the corporate debt out there is just disgusting so many companies trading as junk on the bond market due to the ridiculous amounts of debt taken on during the M&A boom, and share buy back boom (forgot the share buy back boom add another one to the list)

the money made in RE are the smart ones that got out before crap hits the fan

they aren't stupid, the wealthy aren't stupid

the sheep have been sheered the dumb money has been entrapped in debt, the smart money is waiting for this thing to play itself out to buy up cheap

plus the people that have money have exactly that MONEY

they don't need to take on debt as they have the cash

----------------

DAW past is irrelevant i was a gold bug from 2003-2006 when print mania, M&A mania, yen carry trade mania, stock market bubble mania, RE mania, CC debt mania was ONGOING

i'm talking about NOW

i've already said the inflationist were dead correct when we were expanding globally

just look at every global stock market in the last 5 years

every single one of um up, most WAYYYY more than the US

now that they falling they all falling in unison to various degrees
 

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all that money being printed must flow someplace and into somebodies hands. We are talking trillions on dollars. more than enough to bail us out of this crisis.....but at a cost. that cost is inflation.

not to mention the trillions being spent on Iraq. That money goes to US companies. What are they going to do with all that cash??

in 94 they expanded the money supply. it went into tech

that popped, they printed even more to stave off a crisis. that money flowed into RE.

RE popped and they are printing more to stave off another crisis even worse.......where is it gonna go this time?? obviously not tech or RE. what is left?
 

Triple digit silver kook
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RE popped and they are printing more to stave off another crisis even worse.......where is it gonna go this time?? obviously not tech or RE. what is left?

Energy & food for starters.

China has been exporting deflation for years, but most of those items people dont have to live everyday.

All this yapping about China allowing the renminbi to float...if that was to happen, prices for all this stuff now being exported from there would dramatically rise.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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you looked at the corporations financial standing these days they don't have alot of cash

they did at the peak in 2000 though during tech mania though

they have alot of debt though

remember the M&A boom days? funded on debt

share buybacks? funded on debt

you ask the question where is it gonna go this time?

my answer no where no more bubbles to create

maybe they'll find one? but i don't see it

also we aren't bailing out anybody

overseas people with CASH are "bailing" out C, merril lynch etc (actually they are getting ridiculous yields and screwing over US shareholders)

all this "injection" talk is for the most part rhetoric to make the markets feel like the fed is doing something

almost every time the fed is just rolling over predictable repos nothing more nothing less

everywhere you go whether you are a bull or an hyperinflationist the terminology "injection" and "liquidity" is used over and over and over, its all hogwash for the most part

http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc071224.htm

title of the article

Vanishing Act - Are the Fed and the ECB Misleading Investors about "Liquidity"?

hussman not a permabear or anything like that just a MM that's knows what the hell is going on
 

Triple digit silver kook
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when i see the global money supply sharply contract, then ill believe all this deflation talk.

i am going to pick my spots to be short general equities, but personally think people sitting and roosting in the short nest are running in circles.

if you answered my ? from earlier, are you still short jpm?

if you are still 15% long gold and truly believe across-the-board deflation is a sure thing, why be long gold?
 

bushman
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Something that gold is useful for when you are a non-USA person is to buy gold coins when the dollar is weak against your currency, like the recent

$2/£1 event, and the weakening against the loony.

Then you can enjoy both the potential strengthening of the dollar as well as the gold price itself.

So some coins could become a handy wee long term ATM.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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here's a good excerpt if you don't want to read all his details

----------------

As an additional remark, as I noted in mid-October, “we're likely to observe a growing amount of what will wrongly be viewed as 'cash on the sidelines' and 'money creation' in the banking system. The problem is that the commercial paper market has dried up. If savers are not buying those securities as the proceeds come due, and a good portion of the borrowing is still somehow being rolled over, then it must be the case that the savers who used to own commercial paper are now saving in another form, and the borrowers who used to issue commercial paper are now borrowing in a different form. Most probably, banks will be the chosen intermediary, because savers view bank deposits as insured and somewhat safer than unsecured commercial debt.” This is a very predictable outcome, so be careful not to interpret, say, increases in M3 as being the result of “Fed liquidity.”

In short, the Fed is doing nothing more than predictably rolling over its repos, but with great flourish as if something more is going on. The fact is that current economic risks are not the result of a shortage in liquidity or confidence, but reflect a fundamental solvency problem among homeowners who borrowed more than they could afford, on the expectation that rising home prices would provide that affordability through “cash out” refinancing.

It may make people feel good that the Fed looks like it's doing something, but these actions are being misrepresented to investors as being far more than they actually are. Misinformation simply creates false hope, and directs attention away from real problems. This is a disservice to investors.

Over the years, the misperceptions of investors have tended to be a source of periodic frustration for us (the 1999-2000 tech bubble being a good example), but avoiding those misperceptions has also generally been a great source of long-term returns. I don't have any reason to believe that this instance will be much different.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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when i see the global money supply sharply contract, then ill believe all this deflation talk.

i am going to pick my spots to be short general equities, but personally think people sitting and roosting in the short nest are running in circles.

if you answered my ? from earlier, are you still short jpm?

if you are still 15% long gold and truly believe across-the-board deflation is a sure thing, why be long gold?

well i think that gold will hold up just fine plus i don't wanna pay the "collectable tax" i have to pay when i sell

the gold i have in case i'm wrong and fiat fails at some point down the road maybe i'm wrong US can hit recession and gold will continue to sky like mad?

physical gold IMO will fall less than other commodities, and most definetely will fall less than the miners if gold prices fall

the economies that are booming and expanding and that will likely keep growing but slow drastically (stock markets will fall due to this even though they still growing still but the p/es running in the 40s on average will go away though) like china and india love gold too

gold isn't just a dollar story, its a supply demand story as well

and yes i still have JPM i got in when it was in high 40s

some go up some go down (jpm a more conservative short less volitile granted i guess not the case last 2 days :103631605)

AMZN 74 now you are quite right on some others don't perform as well

when i covered 25% of my shorts on friday and tuesday i covered cornocopia of proshares ultra short issues (more volitile swings)
 

Triple digit silver kook
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Seeing eek finally come around and embrace the gold story is a much better read than the shat he posted a few years ago about the topic.

Like I post often, one at a time, eventually everyone wakes up.

edit: tiz, did you add to an existing jpm trade?
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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no on short side i usually just go in when i think its value to short and i'm done with that particular issue and look for the next i like diversity i don't keep my eggs all in one basket

the ultrashort proshares are the issues i'm playing the bear shake games with

the individual company issues i'll hold through thick and thin till i think we are near a long term bottom

or i get squeezed out cause i determine i was wrong
 

Triple digit silver kook
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you made a post in this thread some time ago that listed various etfs and included a list of ultra short and long particular sectors.

could you post that list again or the link to the website I can find it?
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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well tonight we got asia up 1-2% on average no big bounce following the US lead

yen carry trade unwind going on in asia a tad, after the big selloff in the yen during us trading

and futures mixed techies up on qcom and such, dow and S&P down a nudge
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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http://www.proshares.com/funds?products=98616&fundType=

enjoy DAW

these are the coolest things ever for those that can take on a good deal of risk

my friend trades in and out of FXP (ultrashort china) like mad

most volitile thing i've ever seen

--------------------------

here's the ultra long list for the hyper bullies and bear shakes

http://www.proshares.com/funds?products=98646&fundType=

--------------

also i'm not exactly sure how they work but i know the ultrashort proshares pay you dividends as well why i have no clue
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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like QID has paid the following quarterly divy's, yield about 5%

20-Dec-07 $ 0.471 Dividend
25-Sep-07 $ 0.551 Dividend
26-Jun-07 $ 0.416 Dividend
27-Mar-07 $ 0.342 Dividend
20-Dec-06 $ 0.567 Dividend
 

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