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Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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Tax cuts causing economic bust wasn't remotely the point he was making. Obviously he isn't against the federal gov't taking in less $.

His point is that running up deficits via wasteful gov't spending and manipulating interest rates after recessions leads to massive boom/bust cycles (among other things)

Much of the economic growth you get when you do that isn't real sustainable growth, it's a stripper in Arizona buying 7 condos with 5% down.

when I talked about lower taxes and fewer regulations spurring economic growth, he said (paraphrasing) "typical republican response, how did those policies work for Bush 43"

geez, I can't catch a break around here
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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wow, Xpanda has more posts than me in this thread with 158, this baby is aged

some solid old-timers found here
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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Whatcha talkin Willis!


Friday's close- 6.25% 30yr Fixed


buy,buy,buy,

wow, mortgage rates were even 6.25% (on page 1), holy chit man

and that was considered low!!!!!!!!

now they'll call that out of control, or unacceptable
 

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wow, mortgage rates were even 6.25% (on page 1), holy chit man

and that was considered low!!!!!!!!

now they'll call that out of control, or unacceptable

yup 7 years with 3-4% on the 30 year bubble maybe? Plus now consumer is conditioned to that so anything above 4% is sticker shock.. guess we'll see what happens..
 

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Rate hike as expected.. statement sounds pretty dovish to me.. further hikes will be gradually stay below historical norms for a while still etc.. aka party on/bubble on.. that said think market pretty much already expected this.. as fed will now sit tight and see how much debting and fiscal irresponsibility congress allows the "king of debt" trump
 

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Bonds tanking hard on announcement..

5 year yield spiked 1.89 to 1.95 .. mortgage rates heading higher..

the 30 year bond bull finally over?

this is why trump and his economic liberals are gonna have a hell of a time replaying the Reagan/bush playbook.. fiscal situation much different now..
 

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Articles I'm reading saying it leaning a bit more hawkish than expected.. with projections for further hikes increased (3 next year.. I'll believe it when I see it)... guess like housing market.. the finance markets are used to the sugar daddy fed giving them everything.. now they slowly cutting off the supply of cheap debt..

in the end I expect this "normalization" to reverse once the economy which has been juiced up on ZIRP shows it can't even handle tiny rate hikes..
 

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5 year bond now up 10bp to 1.99% since announcement.. was 1.2something pre election..
 

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20161214_EOD1.jpg
 

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What a humanitarian crisis. People on twitter tweeting out their last words, pretty sad.

Not sure what the US could really do though. I tend to have the default opinion that these places can't have democracy and a fanatical regime will emerge, but man it is tough to get worse than Assad. Brutal and evil MF'er.

massie a Ron Paul "kook" type... even though one party system/presidency circus shit/divide and conquer nonsense isn't changing.. slowly but surely we getting a more people in congress that can see thru the lies and propaganda and are true patriots...

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Congresswoman Says US Is Arming ISIS, Introduces Bill To Stop It

Submitted by Darius Shahtahmasebi via TheAntiMedia.org,
Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard has broken free of the corporate media’s narrative by accusing the United States of funding and arming terror groups al-Qaeda and ISIS.
“If you or I gave money, weapons or support to al-Qaeda or ISIS, we would be thrown in jail,” Gabbard tweeted on Saturday.

Most importantly, however, is her introduction of the “Stop Arming Terrorists Act,” which she presented last Thursday. In her presentation of the bill, Gabbard cited prominent publications such as the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal to show that the rebels the U.S. is supporting in Syria are aligned with al-Nusra (which is essentially al-Qaeda in Syria).
She is co-sponsoring the bill with Rep. Thomas Massie, who says the bill “would prohibit the U.S. government from using American taxpayer dollars to provide funding, weapons, training, and intelligence support to terrorist groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS, or to countries who are providing direct or indirect support to those same groups.”
These concerns are not conjectures — they can be verified by none other than suspected war criminal Tony Blair. A think tank founded by the former U.K. Prime Minister released a report in 2015 that concluded it was ultimately pointless to make a distinction between the various rebel groups on the ground since the majority of these groups share ISIS’s core belief system (and would impose Sharia law if they came into power).
“The CIA has also been funneling weapons and money through Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and others who provide direct and indirect support to groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda, Gabbard stated on the House floor last week.
She went into more detail:
The CIA has long been supporting a group called Fursan al Haqq, providing them with salaries, weapons, and support, including surface to air missiles. This group is cooperating with and fighting alongside an al-Qaeda affiliated group trying to overthrow the Syrian government. The Levant Front is another so-called moderate umbrella group of Syrian opposition fighters. Over the past year, the United States has been working with Turkey to give this group intelligence support and other forms of military assistance. This group has joined forces with al-Qaeda’s offshoot group in Syria.
“This madness must end. We must stop arming terrorists. The Government must end this hypocrisy and abide by the same laws that apply to its’ citizens.”
Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration are well aware of the support the Gulf states have provided to ISIS.
The bill would prohibit any federal agency from supporting a terrorist group or funneling support through other countries that directly or indirectly support terror groups. It is also co-sponsored by lawmakers Peter Welch, Barbara Lee, and Trump ally Dana Rohrabacher.
 

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when I talked about lower taxes and fewer regulations spurring economic growth, he said (paraphrasing) "typical republican response, how did those policies work for Bush 43"

geez, I can't catch a break around here

Oh I wasn't critiquing your post, I was just clarifying (since I knew Tiz opinion on this matter) that he meant more about the spending/debting (some bad gov't intervention/de-regulation as well) that Republicans seem eager to engage in when in office despite coming off as hard liners against it when they aren't in office.

He also meant those polices of less taxes/regulations can't just easily overcome other bad policies and systemic problems we face. So they need to be addressed as well or we're never going to get out of this cycle.
 

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More ripples from the Iraq invasion as the influx of immigrants/refugees from the chaos in ME.. pushes Europe more right/nationalist

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[h=1]Geert Wilders: Why voters are flocking to the Dutch Trump[/h][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.65098)]
161212191441-geert-wilders-exlarge-169.jpg
[/COLOR]
By Nic Robertson, CNN
Updated 4:40 AM ET, Wed December 14, 2016
Nieuwkoop, Netherlands (CNN)Minister Hank-Jan Prosman's Church in the village of Nieuwkoop sits on a tiny spit of land surrounded by water. Its tiled roof rises above the surrounding flat, canal-riven fields.

There has been a church here for close to 500 years. For the last five years, it's been Prosman's home.
On an average Sunday, he says, about a third of the 800 villagers will come to attend his service.
He has got to know many of them well over the past few years and in that time has witnessed the growing popularity of Holland's Donald Trump: the peroxide-blonde populist Geert Wilders.
161209102613-01-geert-wilders-file-large-169.jpg
Dutch far-right opposition leader Geert Wilders has called Islamic immigration "an invasion."




Prosman tells me that he doesn't consider himself a prototypical nationalist, but he increasingly finds himself echoing the concerns of his rural parishioners.
The village looks and feels typically Dutch. Ducks splash around in the water; a few feet away, villagers amble between shops and stop to chat with friends.
It's a stone's throw from Amsterdam, but Nieuwkoop feels a world away from the bustle and tourists.
Prosman grew up around here. His father was a church minister before him. His grandfather was a local reed salesman in this region, famed for its peat and bull rushes.
161212120756-01-holland-robertson-1212-vsc01180-large-169.jpg
Minister Henk-Jan Prosman says people voting for Wilders want to make sure they are heard.




At one time, both were staples of local commerce, but over the past few decades, Nieuwkoop, Prosman says, has become typical of many similar villages: they've become Holland's rural rust belt.
Peat and rushes are no longer in the same demand and employment patterns have changed, leaving many of Prosman's congregation uncertain about the future.
They are worried about the economy, he says, about the welfare system and about healthcare, but most of all about rising crime -- something many of them blame on Muslim immigrants.
Prosman's plain but welcoming 19th-century church replaced an even older one built in the 1500s. In an era of uncertainty, it has become a reassuring beacon of continuity and identity.
In Holland today, Prosman explains, the major political parties are hemorrhaging followers.
There is a crisis of confidence in the European Union's old elites. The integration and open borders that they sold supporters are past their expiry date.
"I think people get it. And they don't want it," Prosman says of the EU.
Prosman, who is not only a minister but also writes books on political science, says that his religious calling puts him far closer to the people than regular politicians.
His congregation confide in him, he says, in a way they wouldn't with others.
Mainstream political parties are out of touch, leaving many of his congregation turning to populist Geert Wilders for guidance and answers.


He tells me that Wilders' appeal mirrors the rise of Donald Trump: "I think it's the same in Holland with Geert Wilders: his voters take him seriously not literally," he says, whereas politicians "tend to take him literally."
[h=3]Like Trump, Wilders' popularity is rising[/h]One of Wilders' hot button issues is Muslim immigration: even in tiny rural Nieuwkoop, Prosman says it resonates.
He claims that public housing is being given to immigrants and that it is "very hard for young [Dutch] people to find a house."
In the 2006 general elections, Wilders' PVV (Party For Freedom) won 5.9% of the vote. In 2012, it won a little over 10.1%. Ahead of national elections here March 2017, polls predict that the party may get about 20% of the vote, making it the largest party in Parliament.
Where Trump has said many Mexicans are criminals, Wilders blames Muslim migrants -- in particular Moroccans -- who make up barely 2.2% of Holland's population.
He's been to court more than once on hate speech charges.
Last week, Wilders was convicted of inciting discrimination and "insulting a group" after a trial over statements he made about Moroccans.
But the court found him not guilty of incitement to hatred and handed down no punishment.
[h=3]But why do people back Wilders?[/h]
161212120913-06-holland-robertson-1212-vsc01225-large-169.jpg
Cindy van Kruistum says Wielders is the only politician in touch with the people.




Not far from Nieuwkoop, Financial Administrator Cindy van Kruistum is a fervent supporter of Wilders.
We meet in her smart, middle-class house, where her daughter's running watch is charging on a white table in her pristine kitchen.
If she wasn't meeting with me, she says she'd be out playing tennis.
The occasional car passes by on the quiet tree-lined road outside her large living room window; more frequently, her neighbors cycle past on the broad bike path.
It seems like the Dutch idyll so many of us imagine.
Yet Cindy tells me that on a street close by, her friend's son was mugged by a Muslim migrant.
It's not an isolated case, she warns. She follows a TV program that documents many such attacks. Wilders has the only answer, she says.
"I support him because he dares to talk about the problems we have with Islamization ... if they don't want to integrate, they should leave", she says, quoting Wilders' campaign rhetoric.



I ask if she is racist.
Quite definitely not, she replies: "My youngest daughter has a friend from Morocco ... and he fits in very well."
Wilders, she says, is the only politician who is in touch with the people. He understands what's happening.
She says: "The government, the establishment, they don't listen to the people. They don't go on the streets. Geert Wilders, he is near the people on the streets."
It feels as if we are far further from Amsterdam and its liberal trappings of dope-selling coffee shops and in-your-face red light districts than the hour drive away it actually is. But as Cindy explains, what the Dutch really treasure as their culture is under threat.
"The values we have in our country and the traditions we have in our country, they don't give a damn about it," she says, in reference to Muslim immigrants.
"The next thing you know they'll want to ban gays walking hand in hand in the street -- and that sort of freedom is important to us."
Cindy is not the only one to give me precisely that example of tolerance under threat.
161212120827-03-holland-robertson-1212-vsc01221-large-169.jpg
Haye van Heyden is frustrated by mainstream politicians.




Comedy writer Haye van Heyden told me the same thing.
His reasons for supporting Wilders are different from Cindy's, although like her he is frustrated with mainstream politicians.
He tells me he was ostracized by friends and lost work after he wrote an article explaining his support for Wilders.
"It's undemocratic", he says.
Indeed, punishing those who express their views is part of what angers him about Holland's traditional politicians. He says they refuse to deal with Wilders, instead accusing him of being racist.
I ask him if supporting Wilders makes him a racist. Like Cindy, he says absolutely not.
"I'm not a racist. I am very sure of it but I feel I have to protect the people who have their doubts about Islam."
He tells me he doesn't like everything Wilders says, but that he wants to stand up for the rights of all those who do believe him. "I'm voting for Mr Wilders. It's a protest vote because of the exclusion of him and his followers."
161212120812-02-holland-robertson-1212-vsc01170-large-169.jpg
"I have to protect the people who have doubts about Islam," says Prosman.




Minister Prosman echoes van Haye's sentiment: not everyone following Wilders is a nationalist, but they have given up on mainstream politics.
"It's a wake up call for politicians," he explains. "No one votes for Wilders out of principle, but they want to make sure they are heard."
It is perhaps no surprise that Prosman has become a natural confidant of his congregation.
His church is an epicenter of calm continuity amidst a world of change outside.
Mainstream politicians might do well to stop by once in a while.

Vasco Cotovio contributed to this report.
 

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Busy day for ripple effects..

3 shot near Islamic center in zurich

truck plow through Christmas market in berlin

russian ambassador to turkey assassinated

dow still can't make 20k...
 

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20 is a strong solid psychological barrier. I see some bouncing above and below, then an eventual solid breakthrough.
 

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[FONT=lucida_granderegular]With a commanding lead over his competitors, it appears Holland's anti-Islam, anti-migration Geert Wilders is willing to make his point more aggressively after yesterday's deadly attacks across Europe.[/FONT]
[FONT=lucida_granderegular]In a shocking tweet, he summed up his (and we suspect many Germans) feelings...

[/FONT]
811177221310320640
 

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Like I said above terrible post 9/11 actions US took still rippling today the huge instability we created in a very complex region.. oh well thankfully we got the Atlantic to help us out distance wise.. the Europeans can deal with the mess now..

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Berlin attack - Angela Merkel career could be over after Christmas market horror | World | News | Daily Express

Berlin-762549.jpg
Reuters
Mrs Merkel was pictured minutes after the attackNow as social media has erupted with calls for the leader of Germany to resign Ms Merkel's party has furiously hit out describing the situation as a "state of war."
German politician Klaus Bouillon of Mrs Merkel's CDU party said told Saarland radio: "We must state that we are in a state of war, although some people who want to see only the good can not see.
Bouillon announced intensified security measures amid fears there could be more attacks today.
"We will take it wherever we think it is necessary," said Bouillon. "That means long-range weapons, short weapons, machine guns," even if this sounds martial.
193575.jpg
A truck crashed into a Christmas market in Berlin killing at least 12 and injuring 48
193607.jpg
The damaged windscreen of the truck which ploughed into a crowded Christmas market last night is pictured in the German capital Berlin
193606.jpg
A damaged windscreen of a truck which ploughed through a crowd at a Christmas market in Berlin

Meanwhile Bavaria's Minister of the Interior Joachim Herrmann (CSU) calls for a review of German refugee policy.
He told Radio station antenna Bavaria: "If it should be confirmed that this attack was committed by someone who has been registered as an asylum seeker in the country, then this in Berlin must lead to a fundamental reflection on how this whole refugee reception is designed."
Meanwhile Mrs Merkel has been slammed by right wing AfD party which is surging in the polls.
Marcus Pretzell, an MEP for the right wing Alternative for Germany party said: “When will the German rule of law strike back?
“When will this cursed hypocrisy end? It is Merkel's dead!”
Related articles
 

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[h=1]1MDB Case Hangs Over Goldman Sachs as Investigators Dig for Answers[/h][h=6]December 22, 2016[/h]
Even as Goldman Sachs is gaining a more prominent profile in the administration of Donald J. Trump, the Wall Street investment firm is undergoing scrutiny in an investigation in a sprawling international money laundering and embezzlement scheme.
Prosecutors have said that billions of dollars that Goldman raised for a Malaysian government investment fund — known as 1Malaysia Development Berhad, or 1MDB — were channeled into a web of personal bank accounts and was ultimately used to buy paintings, luxury real estate and investment stakes in movies like “The Wolf of Wall Street.”
Investigators are now questioning what Goldman knew about the final use of the money.
Goldman has said it believed the money was being used to buy legitimate assets for the investment fund, which was run in part by the Malaysian government and its embattled prime minister, Najib Razak.
In recent months, lawyers for Goldman have presented information about its dealings with the Malaysian fund to federal prosecutors and the New York Department of Financial Services, according to people briefed on the matter but not authorized to speak publicly about private meetings.
One such meeting took place recently at the Justice Department in Washington. The next meeting is set to take place in Washington in January, the people said.
The 1MDB case has become a signature campaign in the global effort by prosecutors to crack down on kleptocracy and the relative ease with which the superwealthy move their money beyond the oversight of government authorities.
The Justice Department has been particularly interested in the role that American banks and law firms have played in hiding the assets of the superwealthy.
Outside the United States, Singapore’s central bank recently said that it was barring Tim Leissner, the main Goldman banker who worked with the Malaysian investment fund, from the local securities industry.
This week, an employee of a Swiss bank was found guilty in a Singapore court of trying to obstruct the investigation into the case. Two other Swiss bankers involved in the case have already pleaded guilty in Singapore.
And on Thursday, The Wall Street Journal reported that the highest ranking officials at Goldman, including the firm’s former president, Gary Cohn, were tracking and approving the transactions with 1MDB.
Mr. Cohn was recently appointed to bePresident-elect Trump’s top economic adviser and the director of the National Economic Council. Mr. Cohn could not be reached for comment.
Goldman Sachs and the Justice Department declined to comment.
During the campaign, Mr. Trump repeatedly criticized Goldman Sachs for its ties to the global financial elite. But since his election, Mr. Trump has relied heavily on Goldman executives. In addition to Mr. Cohn’s appointment, Mr. Trump has picked a Goldman veteran and hedge fund manager, Steven T. Mnuchin, to be his Treasury Secretary and made another alumnus of the firm, Stephen K. Bannon, his top strategist.
The 1MDB case hangs over Goldman at a time when its fortunes are otherwise looking up after many hard years.
The firm has faced significant reputational damage after criticism that it profited from the subprime mortgage crisis. The company has also struggled under a raft of new regulations imposed on the financial industry after the mortgage meltdown.
But since Mr. Trump’s election, investors have been betting that Mr. Trump will roll back some of the legislation that has hit Goldman particularly hard.
Mr. Trump’s economic plans could also benefit the firm if interest rates rise and banks are able to charge more for loans. Goldman’s shares have shot up more sharply than the broader market and other bank stocks. Since the election, Goldman’s stock price has risen nearly 32 percent.
On the international front, a British judge ruled in Goldman’s favor in October after a trial on accusations that the firm had pushed Libya’s sovereign wealth fund into costly, improper investments.
In the 1MDB case, there have been no clear signs that the United States government is putting together a criminal case against Goldman or any of its executives.
The recent meetings in Washington between Goldman and the Justice Department may have just been an opportunity for the firm to help the government gather material about other targets in the 1MDB investigation, of which there are many. The Federal Reserve is also said to be reviewing the situation.
This summer, the Justice Department took the first public steps toward seizing $1 billion in assets that it says were moved to the United States after being taken from 1MDB by family and friends of Mr. Najib, the prime minister.
The Malaysian government has said that no money from 1MDB was misappropriated. This fall, the government arrested a critic of the prime minister who publicly disclosed classified information about the 1MDB investigation.
Jack Blum, a lawyer who led corruption investigations for several Senate committees, said that Goldman should have done a thorough investigation of what 1MDB was doing with the money that the bank helped it raise and move around the world, especially given the history of corruption in Malaysia.
“It is a very serious problem when a company is making a hell of a lot of money out of something and everybody in the place says, ‘I don’t know about it,’” Mr. Blum said.
Mr. Blum said that assigning legal blame in situations like the 1MDB case was generally hard because it would be difficult to prove that Goldman executives knew what was going to happen with the money before it happened.
Goldman has looked to distance itself from Mr. Leissner, who was at the center of the bank’s relationship with the Malaysian government.
Mr. Leissner, who is married to the American fashion designer Kimora Lee Simmons, left Goldman in January after the firm found a letter that Mr. Leissner wrote, on Goldman letterhead, vouching for Jho Low, a close associate of the Malaysian prime minister and a central target of various government investigations.
The Journal reported on Thursday that Goldman bankers helped Mr. Low transfer some $3 billion to a small Swiss bank, despite several red flags raised by the Swiss bank and lawyers.
The billions of dollars were raised for 1MDB by Goldman in multiple bond transactions that earned the bank outsize fees. The fees were large enough that they needed to get approval from top Goldman executives, including Mr. Cohn, The Journal reported.
In June, the New York State Department of Financial Services wrote a letter to Goldman asking for information about the proceeds of the bond sales “including, but not limited to, whether any ‘red flags’ existed concerning such payments.”
 

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Bitcoin price hits $900

...and will keep getting better and better the more governments mess with fiat IMO...

The value of the Bitcoin virtual currency has hit a three-year high with each one now worth about $900 (£730).
At the start of 2016, single coins were only worth around $435 but their value has climbed steadily all year.
The steady upward progress has continued despite regular hack attacks on virtual currency exchanges in which coins have been stolen.
Experts said the rise in value was linked to the long-term depreciation of the Chinese Yuan.
[h=2]Stolen coins[/h]The Chinese currency has dropped about 7% in value during 2016, said Reuters. The majority of Bitcoin currency trading takes place in China as it allows people to skirt restrictive local laws that limit how much money Chinese people can swap.
Charles Hayter, founder of the Cryptocompare website that watches virtual currencies, said global political uncertainty and Indian moves to control paper currency were also driving people to buy Bitcoins.
If those trends continued, he told Reuters, many more people may be tempted to buy Bitcoins as they could be seen as a "flight to safety".
Hackers have also been tempted by the rising value of the virtual coins. In August Hong Kong-based digital currency exchange Bitfinex suffered a major hack attack in which bitcoins worth $65m were thought to be taken.
Bitcoin values dropped about 10% when the news of the hack attack was made public
The virtual currency has yet to reach the heights it managed in late 2013 when each coin was worth more than $1,000. The total value of all bitcoins in circulation has now surpassed $14bn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38415066
 

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Yup the wars on cash in India and Venezuela the biggest driver of Bitcoin of late..
 

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