sell! sell! sell!

[tiznow]

My negative opinion of trump was formed well before he ran for POTUS.. snake for Hillary.. the hate for Hillary out trumped the hate for trump in the end.. as I'm sure many people voted for him holding their nose since roughly based on the outcome 96-97% of electorate feel voting 3rd party is a waste of vote ...

markets fully recovered and flat for now at least.. another shocking development..

 

[tiznow]

Wall Street banking on trump and republican control to open up the pocketbooks and spend hoards on infrastructure to keep the bubble going I guess?

I lost that's for sure ha...

 

[PatsFan1283]

Yeah, you'll get a new pork barrel stimulus probably.

And libs can't say shit because they just praised the hell out of Obama for doing it when he came in.

Infrastructure should just be done at the state level and without federal money. Always gets wasted that way.

 

[snoop]

Trump bull market is off for a strong start. Lol.

 

[tiznow]

Trump could be the liberal keynesians wet dream

cut taxes and debt like crazy on infrastructure and military...

pretty hilarious ...

if S&P manages to make new highs I'll remove my short hedges..

Long term gold still party on .. as we rack up more and more debt.. and fed can't raise rates.. at least not much.. interest payments would swallow everything..

 

[tiznow]

Gonna be a hoot going back through the archieves and finding all the things he promised to do that he won't do now..

average poor whitey actually expecting "change" just like liberals did with obama "hope and change" it will be a complete farse.. and it will be business as usual for the most part..

hes no revolutinary.. he will just continue to steer our ship towards disaster.. like they all do..

 

[tiznow]

http://hussman.net/wmc/wmc161031.htm

FTSE all world index likely best index to keep an eye on for to see if this is all just knee jerk putting lipstick on a pig stuff with the world currently sitting at historically rich valuations or the trump is gonna bubble us with even more debt rally has legs...

just never had to think about any of this before cause it was so ingrained in my head Hillary would win lol.. mindblown..

 

[PatsFan1283]

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-stimulus-trump-20161109-story.html

Yep, we were right.

Wonder if House/Senate stands in the way? Freedom Caucus might call BS on it but it's Trump's party now and they may not want to risk being obstructionist to him.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Just gonna turn into pork like the ARA.

Don't think people will care though if it gets short-term results. All we do is think short-term anyway and kick can down the road.

 

[tiznow]

Yeah if it "works" by bubbling Wall Street higher while taking on even more debt and inefficiently spending money.. it will just create further problems for down the road..

-------

Mises economist shows that the Fed will never be able to raise interest rates

Several months into Fed Chairman Janet Yellen’s term as head of the U.S. central bank, the controlling monetary body has been implementing a slow but steady form of pullbacks to their Quantitative Easing (QE) program. And despite the Fed attempting not one, not two, not three, but four different forms of dollar monetization since the credit crisis of 2008, the one area they have not touched in the past six years are the near zero interest rates used to control the borrowing and flow of money in the Western banking system.
However, even with growing concerns and scuttlebutt by several Fed Presidents that interest rates need to be raised to shore up the dollar, Mises economist David Howden broke down the consequences of such a course of action and showed that the ramifications for interest on the national debt would become so outrageous, it is now past the point of no return and the Fed cannot afford in the slightest to ever raise interest rates again.

The U.S. gross federal debt currently stands at $17.548 trillion, and net interest payments to our creditors are the fastest-growing item in the budget. In 2014, the Congressional Budget Office projects that the nation will spend $233 billion on interest payments. By the end of the budget window in 2024, however, CBO forecasts that interest payments will nearly quadruple to an astonishing $880 billion. Every dollar spent paying our creditors is a dollar wasted—money for which we get nothing in return. Interest payments threaten to crowd out every other budget item. – Mises Institute, Canada
​

According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), even at the current rate of interest, interest payments alone on the over $17 trillion national debt will rise to over $800 billion by 2024, and be nearly equal to what the government spends on the military in 2014. The kicker of course is that this estimation is based on the current interest rate of near zero (.0025), and if rates increased by one, two, or even 3%, then the interest on the national debt would escalate into the trillions of dollars as each maturing bond that gets rolled over will have to be purchased with a higher rate of return.
Former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher once famously said, Socialism only works until you run out of other people’s money. And that axiom is now being applied to the Federal Reserve and the U.S. government who has morphed into a virtual welfare state, and is proving without a doubt that after 60 years of economic destruction, the Keynesians have no clothes and the engineers of the American economy have no more money.

 

[PatsFan1283]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-their-tune-on-debt-under-a-president-trump/

 

[tiznow]

Anti trump rallies starting .. knew that was coming ..

Canadian immigration site crashed

 

[PatsFan1283]

yeah awful

Not sure what people expect though. You say you are going to deport 10M people and then become President and you are going to get some unrest.

Imagine how bad the outrage will get when the economy gets worse?

 

[tiznow]

That's the best part of all this for me to see all the liberals crying...

maybe some will eventually wake up to the one party system of divide and conquer.. probably not .. only 4-5% were awake this election cycle (those that voted a 3rd party)

 

[eek.]

That's the best part of all this for me to see all the liberals crying...

Tsk tsk tsk tiz.
You may have noticed that most were kids and don't know much of life yet so they'll get more pragmatic as time goes by.

maybe some will eventually wake up to the one party system of divide and conquer.. probably not .. only 4-5% were awake this election cycle (those that voted a 3rd party)

Or 4 to 5% are dreamers who think too much?
They could have swung this election either way but chose to stand apart from 95% of the electorate

I'm hoping Trump goes back to the spending and inflation system, with healthy positive interest rates.
It's brutal but as least it keeps things moving along and motivates everyone from the bottom to the top.

This current system is nothing more than a slow agonising death struggle with zero chance of an upside, we need an interest rate sledgehammer to smash this financial torpor

He can mince about with "stimulus programs" but we all know they are doomed, Japan has been poncing around with those for decades and getting nowhere

If he wants to kick the system up the ass from top to bottom he's got to jack up rates as well as investment

 

[tiznow]

Interest rates can't rise eek.. now that we have so much frickin debt.. the interest payments would swallow everything... can only ride the debt gravy train for so long

 

[tiznow]

Here's the guy that jacked rates up super high back in the day talking about it

--------


Ignoring the Debt Problem

Opinion
|Op-Ed Contributors

A television showing the final presidential debate.Benjamin Norman for The New York TimesBy PAUL A. VOLCKER and PETER G. PETERSON
October 21, 2016
Together, the two of us have 179 years of life experience and 13 grandchildren. We have served presidents of both parties. We have seen more campaign seasons than we care to count — but none as strange as this one.
Insults, invective and pandering have been poor substitutes for serious debate about the direction in which this country is going — or should be going. And a sound and sustainable fiscal structure is a key ingredient of any viable economic policy.
Yes, this country can handle the nearly $600 billion federal deficit estimated for 2016. But the deficit has grown sharply this year, and will keep the national debt at about 75 percent of the gross domestic product, a ratio not seen since 1950, after the budget ballooned during World War II.
Long-term, that continued growth, driven by our tax and spending policies, will create the most significant fiscal challenge facing our country. The widely respected Congressional Budget Office has estimated that by midcentury our debt will rise to 140 percent of G.D.P., far above that in any previous era, even in times of war.
Unfortunately, despite a brief discussion during the final presidential debate, neither candidate has put forward a convincing plan to restrain the growth of the national debt in the decades to come.
ADVERTISEMENTThroughout the campaign, Donald J. Trump has called for a combination of deep tax cuts that appear to far exceed proposed spending reductions, at the clear risk of substantially increasing the ratio of debt to G.D.P. Hillary Clinton has set out more balanced and detailed proposals, but they would still fail to stabilize and reduce our debt burden.
Whoever wins, the new president will eventually face fiscal realities that force him or her to develop strategies for decreasing the national debt as a share of the economy over the long term.
Our current debt may be manageable at a time of unprecedentedly low interest rates. But if we let our debt grow, and interest rates normalize, the interest burden alone would choke our budget and squeeze out other essential spending. There would be no room for the infrastructure programs and the defense rebuilding that today have wide support.
It’s not just federal spending that would be squeezed. The projected rise in federal deficits would compete for funds in our capital markets and far outrun the private sector’s capacity to save, to finance industry and home purchases, and to invest abroad.
Instead, we’d be dependent on foreign investors’ acquiring most of our debt — making the government dependent on the “kindness of strangers” who may not be so kind as the I.O.U.s mount up.
We can’t let that happen — not if we want an America that is able to provide growth and stability at home while maintaining global leadership. We would risk returning with a vengeance to stagflation — the ugly combination of inflation and economic stagnation that we tasted in the 1970s.
The solutions are clear enough. A realistic approach toward the major entitlement programs is required, given that they are projected to account for all of the growth of future noninterest spending.
We should make gradual adjustments to the Social Security system that still maintain present benefit levels for those at or near retirement, with particular attention to those most in need. Our health care systems can be made more efficient, with better approaches toward cost control. Since health care represents 70 percent of the growth of our major entitlement programs over the next 30 years, bending the cost curve is essential to the long-term well-being of our economy.
It’s no secret that our federal tax system is broken — unfair, inefficient and prone to political manipulation. It’s filled with exclusions, deductions, exemptions and preferential rates — so-called tax expenditures — that are ripe for reform. Those policies cost about $1.5 trillion each year and disproportionately benefit the well off. Tax reform could provide better incentives for economic growth, while raising more revenue, even as the code is simplified.
But we face an immutable fact. Fair and responsible reforms will take years to implement. And businesses and individuals will need time to adjust.
Delaying action now will make the needed changes only more painful and difficult later on, while also increasing the risk of financial crisis before the reforms are even made. That is why the real debate should begin immediately.
Yet at the final presidential debate, both candidates missed the opportunity to clearly lay out their visions for a fiscally responsible, long-term future for our country. There’s still time to solve this problem. But our next president needs to show leadership in the first months.
ADVERTISEMENTAt our age, neither of us will personally suffer from a failure to act. It is those with long lives ahead — grandchildren and great-grandchildren — who deserve the benefit of prospering in a nation with sound finances.
Take some advice from two observers who have been around for a while: The long term gets here before you know it.

 

[tiznow]

They probably can raise them a big but the days of 4-5% rates in US likely will ever be seen again to any of our eyes.. seems impossible baring a time period in the future where we decide to take a hard hit and get it over with (what we should do) and reign in spending and reduce our debt.. as a nation not just governments we are addicted to debt.. at some point it will be time to pay.. the more we debt now the worse later will be.. this isn't rocket science it's common sense..

 

[snoop]

Trump bulls rally day # 2....

...till Dec rate hike.

 

[tiznow]

Yeah infrastructure rally day 2 is on..

my iron ore trust loves trump so far lol

will see what happens when markets get near the highs.. may just be lipstick on a pig.. as I don't think it's as simple as republicans will give trump a blank check to spend inefficiently and debt more..