It's not about rooting it on I'm quite saddened to forsee the train wreck we are heading for, its about reality. This coming could be fortold for a while. I've been screaming at the top of my lungs for months to stop the insanity to anybody i can, but hardly anybody listens, americans just too set in their complacent ways that everything will be okay forever since it has been in recent history. That said everybody will go in the gutter worldwide all economies are poised to collapse so this won't just be an american issue.
It's not about rooting it on I'm quite saddened to forsee the train wreck we are heading for, its about reality. This coming could be fortold for a while. I've been screaming at the top of my lungs for months to stop the insanity to anybody i can, but hardly anybody listens, americans just too set in their complacent ways that everything will be okay forever since it has been in recent history. That said everybody will go in the gutter worldwide all economies are poised to collapse so this won't just be an american issue.
I don't want to see the US economy collapse because this will affect the world. What is happening lately does seem very funny and that some people are making a killing off of all this action, like it was coordinated and planned. Americans I do think are complacent and the gov just walks all over them. It is just ironic that Americans think they have freedom when I am not so sure they do.
Wtf you talkin about Timetopray?
I've lost plenty times, just "waiting for that bounce," came to grips a few years ago.
Rooting it on? Non-fucking-sense
Clue: People can wake to the reality that there is a chance for them to minimize loss. You rather the average guy keep his head buried in the sand, or actually save his own ass?? AS if your fucking investment rep is ever gonna tell you to pull out of a fund for a few months.
If you can't see the storm on the horizon, then we'll count you out on the storm shutter leads list.
:smoking:
Non sense??? Go re-read some of the posts pal. Especiallly when some real bad news comes out and people use
or 
to say how happy they are.News is News and opinions are opinions but when something bad happens to be happy about it is garbage.
Again im sure you all are hoping it drops for the best motives... like your own pocket book.
Non sense??? Go re-read some of the posts pal. Especiallly when some real bad news comes out and people use
News is News and opinions are opinions but when something bad happens to be happy about it is garbage.
Again im sure you all are hoping it drops for the best motives... like your own pocket book.
Bullshit. You must have us confused with the Repug leadership and the top 5% US wealth holders. Last thing I wanna have to do (already did it) IS GO THRU THE TROUBLE AND HASSLE OF REPOSITIONING, in order NOT to lose hard earned money because of a bunch of irresponsible fucks running those financials and hedges.
Fact is some businesses were really fucking greedy and deserve to go
up. Unless you, of course, you're on their side.
hno:Why does Wall Street always get bailed out?
Friday August 17, 9:39 am ET
By Allan Sloan, Fortune senior editor-at-large
Wall Street loves to talk about letting financial markets weed out the weak. But when the Street itself gets in trouble, it sticks out its little tin cup, asking for help. And gets it.
The subprime-mortgage-market meltdown is a classic example of the way small fry get devoured, but the whales of Wall Street get rescued. Here's the deal: People with crummy credit who took out mortgages are being allowed to fail in record numbers. The mortgage companies that made those loans are being allowed to fail.
The Street itself? It's bailout city. Even before the Fed made a symbolic half-point cut in the discount rate, it and other central banks from Switzerland to Singapore were trying to rescue the Street by injecting hundreds of billions of dollars into the financial markets and announcing they will put up more, if needed.
Hello? If you believe in markets - which I do - this rescue is especially galling, because Wall Street enabled this mess in the first place. How so? By happily sucking up hundreds of billions of dollars' worth of suspect mortgages from marginal U.S. borrowers-and begging mortgage makers to create more of them. The Street sliced and diced this financial toxic waste into a variety of esoteric securities, making a nice markup when it sold them and generating a continuing stream of profits when it made markets in them.
Somehow analysts at credit-rating agencies, looking at computerized scenarios rather than at the real world, decided that the bulk of the securities backed by these trashy loans could be rated triple-A.
It's really amazing: Most of the loans to substandard creditors borrowing 100% of the purchase price of homes they couldn't afford were rated the same as GE and the federal government. That makes no sense. But the money rolled in, and Wall Street-by which I mean the world's biggest and most important financial institutions-didn't care about the real world or ask any questions. It was too busy making money, and cashing bonus checks generated by subprime-mortgage profits.
But the world's central banks aren't letting the big guys fail. Think of it as the Escape of the Enablers. The reason this is happening, of course, is the same reason that the Fed orchestrated a bailout of the infamous Long-Term Capital Management hedge fund a decade ago-and about 20 years ago didn't close some of the nation's biggest banks, even though they were effectively insolvent because unrealized losses had wiped out their capital.
It's the "too big to fail" syndrome. In a world in which big players make incredibly large and complex deals with one another - that's what derivatives are - regulators don't dare let a big or important institution fail for fear that the collapse of one would lead to "cascading failures," and other institutions wouldn't be able to collect what the collapsed institution owed them.
The Fed's job, you see, isn't to protect you and me and our retirement portfolios, or even many of the nation's largest companies and biggest employers. The Fed's job is to protect the financial system. That's why it's trying to rescue the gigantic subprime enablers while letting borrowers and mortgage companies go under.
Your collapse or mine wouldn't bother Fed chairman Ben Bernanke or the world's other central bankers. But if, say, a big German institution loaded to the eyeballs with subprime securities croaked, Bernanke and his fellow central bankers would care a lot.
Sure, we know that Ben and the boys will always bail out the biggies. And none of us - I think, anyway - wants the world's financial system to implode. But I'd feel a lot better if the Street had to pay a serious price to its rescuers--say, having to fork over a big equity stake and pay a loan-shark interest rate. That way taxpayers, who are picking up the tab for the rescue, would get paid bigtime for taking on bigtime risk.
After all, that's the Wall Street way.
Friday August 17, 9:39 am ET
By Allan Sloan, Fortune senior editor-at-large
Wall Street loves to talk about letting financial markets weed out the weak. But when the Street itself gets in trouble, it sticks out its little tin cup, asking for help. And gets it.
The subprime-mortgage-market meltdown is a classic example of the way small fry get devoured, but the whales of Wall Street get rescued. Here's the deal: People with crummy credit who took out mortgages are being allowed to fail in record numbers. The mortgage companies that made those loans are being allowed to fail.
The Street itself? It's bailout city. Even before the Fed made a symbolic half-point cut in the discount rate, it and other central banks from Switzerland to Singapore were trying to rescue the Street by injecting hundreds of billions of dollars into the financial markets and announcing they will put up more, if needed.
Hello? If you believe in markets - which I do - this rescue is especially galling, because Wall Street enabled this mess in the first place. How so? By happily sucking up hundreds of billions of dollars' worth of suspect mortgages from marginal U.S. borrowers-and begging mortgage makers to create more of them. The Street sliced and diced this financial toxic waste into a variety of esoteric securities, making a nice markup when it sold them and generating a continuing stream of profits when it made markets in them.
Somehow analysts at credit-rating agencies, looking at computerized scenarios rather than at the real world, decided that the bulk of the securities backed by these trashy loans could be rated triple-A.
It's really amazing: Most of the loans to substandard creditors borrowing 100% of the purchase price of homes they couldn't afford were rated the same as GE and the federal government. That makes no sense. But the money rolled in, and Wall Street-by which I mean the world's biggest and most important financial institutions-didn't care about the real world or ask any questions. It was too busy making money, and cashing bonus checks generated by subprime-mortgage profits.
But the world's central banks aren't letting the big guys fail. Think of it as the Escape of the Enablers. The reason this is happening, of course, is the same reason that the Fed orchestrated a bailout of the infamous Long-Term Capital Management hedge fund a decade ago-and about 20 years ago didn't close some of the nation's biggest banks, even though they were effectively insolvent because unrealized losses had wiped out their capital.
It's the "too big to fail" syndrome. In a world in which big players make incredibly large and complex deals with one another - that's what derivatives are - regulators don't dare let a big or important institution fail for fear that the collapse of one would lead to "cascading failures," and other institutions wouldn't be able to collect what the collapsed institution owed them.
The Fed's job, you see, isn't to protect you and me and our retirement portfolios, or even many of the nation's largest companies and biggest employers. The Fed's job is to protect the financial system. That's why it's trying to rescue the gigantic subprime enablers while letting borrowers and mortgage companies go under.
Your collapse or mine wouldn't bother Fed chairman Ben Bernanke or the world's other central bankers. But if, say, a big German institution loaded to the eyeballs with subprime securities croaked, Bernanke and his fellow central bankers would care a lot.
Sure, we know that Ben and the boys will always bail out the biggies. And none of us - I think, anyway - wants the world's financial system to implode. But I'd feel a lot better if the Street had to pay a serious price to its rescuers--say, having to fork over a big equity stake and pay a loan-shark interest rate. That way taxpayers, who are picking up the tab for the rescue, would get paid bigtime for taking on bigtime risk.
After all, that's the Wall Street way.
Drive-Bys Talk Down Market, EIB Network Brings It Back Up
August 17, 2007
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: No sooner did I predict to you yesterday that the Drive-Bys are going to be trying to destroy the economy based on the stock market news, than the AP makes me out to be what I am: a prophet! I know these people like every square inch, folks, of my glorious naked body (shrinking though it is). Right here: "The stock market is on a stomach-churning ride, the once high-flying U.S. housing market is sinking deeper into gloom, and credit, the lifeblood of the American economy, is drying up." (Gasp!) Oh, they are so excited! They don't know which to be more excited about, this or Hurricane Howard Dean, which is making a beeline for Jamaica.
You know, credit is not the "lifeblood" of the US economy. This is where these people exhibit total ignorance. The people who make this country work are the lifeblood of the US economy. "However, those billions [injected into the system by Bernake at the Fed] have not succeeded in calming investors, who are worried about which big hedge fund or mortgage company will be the next to announce serious problems.... 'There is just a lot of fear out there,' said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard & Poor's in New York. 'Right now people are so scared that we are losing liquidity even on safe securities.'"
"'The risks of a recession have risen considerably and they will keep rising with each day that financial markets remain in turmoil,' said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com." What a great name for a place predicting doom and gloom. "Rising unemployment would represent another blow to consumer confidence, which is likely to be rattled by the recent troubles on Wall Street."(Laughing.) This piece has everything I told you it was going to have, and it'll be in your local paper that you don't read anymore, because local papers are losing out to the Internet. By the way, unemployment figures: Have you stopped to think of this? How many illegals do we have working? What's the number, 12 to 20 million? All right. They're not reported. They're on the payrolls here illegally, right? Okay. So if they get fired for whatever reason, nobody will ever know. The government won't know because there's no record of them being hired in the first place, for some of these jobs. So we could lose... Just as a ballpark figure, it ain't going to happen, but five million illegals could get laid off and the unemployment rate wouldn't change because nobody would know it. (interruption) Yeah, you could count 'em at the food pantries, in the soup line. The food pantries!
BREAK TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: We had all these people on the phone yesterday saying, "Hey, this is a buying opportunity." That market was down 340 points when my show started. When it was over, the market was flat. It closed down about 15 or 16 points. We got that market back yesterday, folks, and today it's up over 156. The Fed went in there and they lowered the discount rate one half of a percentage point, which is the interest rate that banks charge each other to shift money around. But it does signal to me, an avid Fed watcher that (interruption). Well, they care, but I think they're going to lower interest rates when they get to their next meeting in September. It goes to show the power you people in this audience have. I was so thrilled when I saw that 340-point drop erased, and what happened? What happened? The Fed hadn't done anything by the end of the day yesterday. Well, they put some more cash in the system, but they've been doing that for a while and it didn't make any difference. What made the difference yesterday in wiping out that 340-point plunge was this show. There's no question about it.
END TRANSCRIPT
August 17, 2007
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: No sooner did I predict to you yesterday that the Drive-Bys are going to be trying to destroy the economy based on the stock market news, than the AP makes me out to be what I am: a prophet! I know these people like every square inch, folks, of my glorious naked body (shrinking though it is). Right here: "The stock market is on a stomach-churning ride, the once high-flying U.S. housing market is sinking deeper into gloom, and credit, the lifeblood of the American economy, is drying up." (Gasp!) Oh, they are so excited! They don't know which to be more excited about, this or Hurricane Howard Dean, which is making a beeline for Jamaica.
You know, credit is not the "lifeblood" of the US economy. This is where these people exhibit total ignorance. The people who make this country work are the lifeblood of the US economy. "However, those billions [injected into the system by Bernake at the Fed] have not succeeded in calming investors, who are worried about which big hedge fund or mortgage company will be the next to announce serious problems.... 'There is just a lot of fear out there,' said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard & Poor's in New York. 'Right now people are so scared that we are losing liquidity even on safe securities.'"
"'The risks of a recession have risen considerably and they will keep rising with each day that financial markets remain in turmoil,' said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com." What a great name for a place predicting doom and gloom. "Rising unemployment would represent another blow to consumer confidence, which is likely to be rattled by the recent troubles on Wall Street."(Laughing.) This piece has everything I told you it was going to have, and it'll be in your local paper that you don't read anymore, because local papers are losing out to the Internet. By the way, unemployment figures: Have you stopped to think of this? How many illegals do we have working? What's the number, 12 to 20 million? All right. They're not reported. They're on the payrolls here illegally, right? Okay. So if they get fired for whatever reason, nobody will ever know. The government won't know because there's no record of them being hired in the first place, for some of these jobs. So we could lose... Just as a ballpark figure, it ain't going to happen, but five million illegals could get laid off and the unemployment rate wouldn't change because nobody would know it. (interruption) Yeah, you could count 'em at the food pantries, in the soup line. The food pantries!
BREAK TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: We had all these people on the phone yesterday saying, "Hey, this is a buying opportunity." That market was down 340 points when my show started. When it was over, the market was flat. It closed down about 15 or 16 points. We got that market back yesterday, folks, and today it's up over 156. The Fed went in there and they lowered the discount rate one half of a percentage point, which is the interest rate that banks charge each other to shift money around. But it does signal to me, an avid Fed watcher that (interruption). Well, they care, but I think they're going to lower interest rates when they get to their next meeting in September. It goes to show the power you people in this audience have. I was so thrilled when I saw that 340-point drop erased, and what happened? What happened? The Fed hadn't done anything by the end of the day yesterday. Well, they put some more cash in the system, but they've been doing that for a while and it didn't make any difference. What made the difference yesterday in wiping out that 340-point plunge was this show. There's no question about it.
END TRANSCRIPT
arty: I seriously can't stop laughing over the statement in bold. :missingte :monsters-
This cut is just the set up pitch for the Sept cut.
This is the springtime of my loving-
the second season I am to know
You are the sunlight in my growing-
so little warmth I felt before.
It isn't hard to feel me glowing-
I watched the fire that grew so low.
It is the summer of my smiles-
flee from me Keepers of the Gloom.
Speak to me only with your eyes
it is to you I give this tune.
It isn't hard to recognise-
these things are clear to all from
time to time.
Talk Talk-
I felt the coldness of my winter
I never thought it would ever go
I cursed the gloom that set upon us
but I know that I love you so
but I know that I love you so.
These are the seasons of emotion
And like the winds they rise and fall
This is the wonder of devotion-
I see the torch we all must hold.
This is the mystery of the quotient-
Upon us all a little rain
must fall.
:toast:
Cuss...shot a 73 today.
This is the springtime of my loving-
the second season I am to know
You are the sunlight in my growing-
so little warmth I felt before.
It isn't hard to feel me glowing-
I watched the fire that grew so low.
It is the summer of my smiles-
flee from me Keepers of the Gloom.
Speak to me only with your eyes
it is to you I give this tune.
It isn't hard to recognise-
these things are clear to all from
time to time.
Talk Talk-
I felt the coldness of my winter
I never thought it would ever go
I cursed the gloom that set upon us
but I know that I love you so
but I know that I love you so.
These are the seasons of emotion
And like the winds they rise and fall
This is the wonder of devotion-
I see the torch we all must hold.
This is the mystery of the quotient-
Upon us all a little rain
must fall.
:toast:
Cuss...shot a 73 today.
Helluva week. Made a few bucks.
Bottom line is the market was due for a correction. I am 95% sure da big boyz.....aka JP Morgan (the Working Group aka the Plunge Protection Team) and Goldman Sachs (The US treasury) had a pretty firm handle on it the entire time and managed the losses. Of course to the further detriment of the next generation.
Alot of smart people on this board. Very refreshing.
The Fundementals warrant it, but this isn't the big one, or even much more than a big haircut.
We've become a nation of extremes in all facets. The middle is getting narrower and narrower every year. You've got the ultra-bullish who thinks every thing is cool and have come to expect 15% gains every year and the chearleaders who are nothing more than shills, or the ultra-bearish who think the DOW drops to 1100, the USD below 75 and houses lose 50% of their value.
As usual, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I do think this correction is not through playing out. Got a lot over mortgages still to reset, and we're gonna see reduced earnings clear across the board in the 4Q.
Jdog, you are off post review - be good please, wilheim
Bottom line is the market was due for a correction. I am 95% sure da big boyz.....aka JP Morgan (the Working Group aka the Plunge Protection Team) and Goldman Sachs (The US treasury) had a pretty firm handle on it the entire time and managed the losses. Of course to the further detriment of the next generation.
Alot of smart people on this board. Very refreshing.
The Fundementals warrant it, but this isn't the big one, or even much more than a big haircut.
We've become a nation of extremes in all facets. The middle is getting narrower and narrower every year. You've got the ultra-bullish who thinks every thing is cool and have come to expect 15% gains every year and the chearleaders who are nothing more than shills, or the ultra-bearish who think the DOW drops to 1100, the USD below 75 and houses lose 50% of their value.
As usual, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I do think this correction is not through playing out. Got a lot over mortgages still to reset, and we're gonna see reduced earnings clear across the board in the 4Q.
Jdog, you are off post review - be good please, wilheim
Atta Boy
Nothin like listening to a little Led Zep, hittin the round ball, and havin a few ales, right?
What's the CR of the track you play there, 65.5? LOL/Jk
Any of you yanks that ever wanna leave that Northern Paradise and play something pretty nice and fairly cheap to boot, I gotta a couple down here that fit the bill.
BTW, haircut isn't over yet IMO.
Atta Boy
Nothin like listening to a little Led Zep, hittin the round ball, and havin a few ales, right?
What's the CR of the track you play there, 65.5? LOL/Jk
Any of you yanks that ever wanna leave that Northern Paradise and play something pretty nice and fairly cheap to boot, I gotta a couple down here that fit the bill.
BTW, haircut isn't over yet IMO.
71.2 from the blues my man.
http://www.widowswalkgolf.com/home.asp?courseid=57
Sick course,right on the ocean....you know what that is right Cuss?
How bout you getting your ass out to historic Boston.
BTW-I think we'll still get volatility as this market settles into its new found liquidity but IMO dreams (nightmares?) of 12K are done fer.I see folks anticipating lower receipts in the coming quarters,which may be true but its all relative.Just as the indecies have performed miraculously they were due for a cooling off period.Same could very well happen with revenue and earnings but not to a degree that the economy will face a "crisis" like this one.These companies as well as the global consumer will continue to prove the naysayers wrong again IMO ,as they have quarter after quarter.Consumer confidence is still admirable and the huge companies that the street looks for as flagships for the economy will still outperform for a while to come (IMHO of course)as they are sound fundamentally.
Only way at this point I see markets holding its own "number wise" is if they (the FED) chooses to go the hyperstagflation route. The dollar was having a nice rally as the rush for liquidity was happening up until yesterday when they lowered the discount rate to banks. If they start dropping the fed fund rates as well the dollar will break the 80 level it has never been below ever before and go further in the crapper.
I'm not sure who is more giddy, the Bears who have very little money left, if any, after being wrong for much of their adult life, or the lefties, who are dying to say Bush ruined the country's economy.
They talk about the economy turning south and use emotional icons like. Can you say pathetic?
As for me, it's nothing more than another cycle within a never ending cycle. It ain't doom & gloom, but y'all can keep on dreaming.
PS: It's gotta be sad to be you.
They talk about the economy turning south and use emotional icons like
. Can you say pathetic?As for me, it's nothing more than another cycle within a never ending cycle. It ain't doom & gloom, but y'all can keep on dreaming.
PS: It's gotta be sad to be you.
I'm not sure who is more giddy, the Bears who have very little money left, if any, after being wrong for much of their adult life, or the lefties, who are dying to say Bush ruined the country's economy.
They talk about the economy turning south and use emotional icons like
As for me, it's nothing more than another cycle within a never ending cycle. It ain't doom & gloom, but y'all can keep on dreaming.
PS: It's gotta be sad to be you.
Hey douche bag, I have not been in the market, long or short since May. Unlike bulls who essentially can't be very objective when their bias towards everything going up for ever and ever is all they can grasp. You are the same buy and hold morons who bought in 2000 and said it will all be fine in time. Meanwhile Cisco, even after a good year, is half what it was in 2000. Sure does seem bullishness forever isn't the right idea. Hope you were flipping condos in '05 also. How's that going for you?...Nothing like a flat day to start chirping. How funny. I love this country, I don't want to see a recession and we may well avoid one. Still doesn't change the fact that the market is overvalued on numerous levels. I give my best ideas on here, not what I "hope" will happen....
