SBR on Oklahoma Sports Betting (Rating D)

JudgeWapner · May 10, 2004

Possible motive?To help posters?Nah,too simple.

WalkofLife · May 10, 2004

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=879103231&r=677106231#677106231 Spreads.com

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=988109721&r=772103821#772103821 PlayASAP

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=338109121&r=354101221#354101221 Cascade

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=556102521&r=422104521#422104521 Rio

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=823107401&r=737106411#737106411 Dime Line Books

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=722101201&r=489103201#489103201 SBG

These are threads where I have discussed different operations and 1 post with first hand experience on reputable books and their dime lines.

I'd post more, but the serach feature is limited.

Believe me, PRELUDE... I do not hate OSB. I was only trying to discuss their model in a rational way. I actually hope they make it, so we don't have to see more bettors getting stiffed. As Roberto said, the Bail-out plans are very rare in this time and date.

Loman;

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Possible motive?To help posters?Nah,too simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mizike · May 10, 2004

I clearly asked you to provide the mathematic behind your #'s You have not, you simply claim that others are not throwing #'s out there either so you don’t have to?
That’s not answering or debating that’s throwing the ball back in the others court. Besides based on what Oklahoma is telling us your bitch was about something that no longer exists so does it really matter now!!! Hey maybe they listened to your opinion to change some bonus offers but i am sure they will never admit it now as you so blatantly have it in for Oklahoma. You have not answered any of my questions so does it surprise you that others wont answer yours!!!
No one is attacking you PERSONALLY we are questioning your PROFESSIONAL opinion because as a rep. of a large review site it seems you have PERSONIZED the issue. If you are providing personal opinions then why are you telling everyone that your represent the sportsbookreview? If you are telling your personal opinion and not your professional one unless you play at Oklahoma then your personal opinion means squat IMO.
Again I ask in a professional way, answer superstars question and not with a response like because I feel like it. Why NOW are you warning us all about oklahoma, you said that you spoke with management a few weeks ago, what was the wait if you feel oklahoma is a risky book???
Do this math as that’s the only thing you trust: How about the mathematical probability of the books % profit is less than 0.05%
Your % is true (assuming your #'s are correct) and ONLY true if and ONLY if..... The only players oklahoma has right now fit all of the following,
1. Only deposit with the 1st time deposit bonus,
2. use the refer a friend bonus,
3. Only play reduced juice days or lines,
4. only looses to get the 10% cash back...
5. takes advantage of every other rebate that Oklahoma offers
Lets see your math on how many players fall into this criteria, unless 100% of all Oklahoma’s players do this then does the house have a less than 0.5% edge, (those are your #'s not mine as I have not seen your math I have no clue as to how you came up with less than 0.5%)
What is the probability that all Oklahoma’s players are doing this???? Slim to none you know this but I guess that would not fit your argument now would it.

All of your examples are from the rx, i believe vtech was asking which examples do you have where you systematically went forum jumping to discuss one book at the same time.

Quit now walk of life you are getting fed to the sharks buddy, so maybe it better you don’t answer.

WalkofLife · May 10, 2004

mizike;

Your post is intrinsically a falacy.

My analysys was based on money management, the variable offered in your formula (how many players play there) is not attainable with my current info. But I'll tell you what, it is a good question... I'd like to read the answer too.

Let's see if those in possession of the info (Okalhoma Sports Betting) care to answer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Quit now walk of life you are getting fed to the sharks buddy, so maybe it better you don’t answer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're a piece of work. LMFAO ... and I can see you have a sense of humor too. Now cute don't make money, sweetheart... better learn that.

I'm out.

Poker night tonite... now THOSE are sharks...

superstar · May 10, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> My opinion on OSB is my opinion <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So why you called OSB in behalf of the sbr
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> couple of days after, I personally called Mr. Michael Montanaro, GM of OSB. The discussion prolonged for almost 1 hour and none of the issues that will be presented here were satisfactorily addressed by Mr. Montanaro. I invite Mr. Montanaro to refute my arguments and to do it publicly in this thread <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it personal o professional?,

quit the role playing are you walk of life a regular poster of therx or a "member" of Sportsbookreview.com
Bottom Line , you just make the SBR credibilty 0% and all thanks to you

WalkofLife · May 10, 2004

It's my opinion. The wire on SBR is partially based on MY opinion. It is what it is.

Why are you guys so concerned?

Just keep working hard and dealing sharp lines and you should come ahead. Now, revise the issues I raised and you might be running a more profitable shop.

A more profitable model is always desirable, right?

Geez... and why are you so concerned about my posts regarding OSB... are you a schill or a player? If you're a player, read this and throw it in the trash if you want...

Now, if you're a schill... why not post under a OSB handle?

SportSavant · May 10, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I don't know Okla sports,and have never played with them.I wish them all the luck in the world.But I would be concerned with thier business model.SS,if you like them fine.I hope it works out for you.But why would you blast a poster for pointing out a potential problem.Posters read info and make descions.If they decide to play at this book,cool. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it's easy judge wapner, it is all about the way it is done...fact remains 'Walk of Life' is highly influencial & should be more diplomatic in his approach to the critique of the book....

There has been no comment to the fact that the Bonus is now only 20% & that the 10% win back on losses is only NHL....

I havent seen anything shocking in terms of Bonuses except for the first few weeks....

WalkofLife · May 10, 2004

SportSavant:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>There has been no comment to the fact that the Bonus is now only 20% <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Posted by me in my initial analysis:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>For the sake of brevity, let's disect the following structure:
15% Sign-up Bonus: 5x play-through requirement

How much theoretical percentage does a book get to have on this bonus structure? A 5% of the total rollover amount.

In this case: 5% of $5750. That equals $287.5

Now, one of the possible scenarios might look like this:

$287.5 - $150 (bonus amount) = $137.5
$137.5 = 2.3% theoretical percentage of hold.

But OSB offers a 10% rebate on losses. Let's say a customer loses $1000 in the first month; so it now turns out that OSB must give customer B $100 out of $137.5 they got from Customer A.

$137.5 - $100 = $37.5
$37.5 = 0.65% of total rollover amount.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My proposed analysis contemplates a lesser amount of bonus, even less than 20%. The 10% might only be for NHL... and that's even worst.

Ask any experienced bookmaker if there are square puckheads...NHL is the playground of nordic syndicated action and extremely sharp north american players. There might be a couple of squares NHL bettors, but they are a rare breed.

mizike · May 10, 2004

How can you possibly say that the # of players fitting into your model has no bearing on your analysis?!?!?!?!? That is so simple minded it defies logic. Your model assumes that 100% of players do what you say they do, a real mathematical analysis would have listed the margin of error. At the very least you could do the math for say 20% players who do this, 50% and 80% then I would say you say on to something.
Even a 4yr old can figure out that people are individuals and will wager in individual ways, not as you think they will.
DADUM....DADUM.....DADUM (thats the jaws music for you Walk of life) or maybe you should change to swimming for life.....

peteep · May 10, 2004

This is a hot topic! I'm surprised to see it back at the top. There appears to be some heated debated, and if I take a step back I can see both perspectives.

First, WOL makes some calculations that make sense. He does have a few errors in that OSB has changed their bonus plan, but I can accept his numbers. In addressing this issue, as has already been done, it does make sense to offer specials to attract new customers. They have established a client base, and have since reduced their bonus offerings. Without offering a little something extra, I doubt they would have gotten as many clients. I see no problem with this. Also, look at some of the better books out there; they continuously offer 15% or 20% bonuses. WWTS has them every couple of months, BetCBS has 20% reloads all the time....it's not uncommon and those books are very successful. The math doesn't take into consideration the fact that most, or at least many people will continue to play after they meet the rollover. It also doesn't account for the bad habits of some bettors that tend to scew the numbers to the books favour even further.

This thread obviously points to the fact that OSB is doing many things right. Many clients of theirs have responded, and many (including myself) have positive things to say. The service at OSB has been great, and the payouts superb. Without this fact, this thread would have been much shorter. People enjoy playing there, and it looks like they are on the right track. I think this fact should be also addressed, rather than just issuing a warning.

I think WOL has brought up valid points, and many have been addressed appropriately. That said, there certainly is a risk involved playing with OSB, and this risk could be perceived as high by some as they are a new book. I can accept that. I think the problem some people have is that there are so many other books that have gotten valid complaints that threads issuing warnings could be started about. A warning about a book that has no slow pay or no pay complaints, when there are other books that have complaints against them, perhaps isn't the best approach. Maybe a general thread discussing the math behind bonuses and such would be more appropriate. That allows posters to disect the information and then apply them to a wide range of sportsbook.

Ok, I'm babbling, sorry for that. I extend a handshake to OSB for a job well done so far, and I also thank the various watchdog sites for their input. I think TOW and SBR are great resources, and I'm happy to have them at my disposal.

WalkofLife · May 10, 2004

Mizike;

If you're a player, you can print this thread and wipe your ass with it if you want. That should end the discussion.

If you're shilling, then... why are you schilling? Why not post under an official handle?

JudgeWapner · May 10, 2004

Miz,agree that alot would depend on ones customer base.If you have a 90% square customer base than that changes things radically.Don't know anything about Ok's customer base.But if they are looking for clientelle off of the forums,don't think they will get many squares.If they have a mostly sharp base,the bonus structure could hurt them.Hey who knows.If you know the guy in charge of Ok,and he is sharp and has been involved in this biz for a long time,he may have thought this all through.I tend to play at books where I know the guy who is running them.I feel my chance of getting burnt is less that way.If Ok sports has done thier homework they should be around for awhile.If they haven't they won't be.Like I said before I wish them all the best.

mizike · May 10, 2004

should i print on 2 ply or 3 ply.... you really have nothing to add other than attack huh?
not a schill just a guy who can read between the lines of simplistic thought process. If you cant take the heat get out the burning house but for Christs sake stop adding flames to the fire.

wilheim · May 10, 2004

Go figure - same IPs - Mizike, Superstar, PreludeVTEC, and management@OSB.
wil.

TheGeneral+ · May 10, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by wilheim:
Go figure - same IPs - Mizike, Superstar, PreludeVTEC, and management@OSB.
wil.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite a team they got there.

That tells quite a story I'd say.

wilheim · May 10, 2004

Classic OSB thread

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=843104321&r=870104421#870104421

wil...

[This message was edited by wilheim on May 10, 2004 at 09:57 PM.]

mizike · May 10, 2004

cant speak for super or vetc but i live in costa rica, have done so since 1991 and not in sportsbooks, own a family wine shop in san pedro called Cabernet Wine Shop, feel free to stop by anyinme you wish, its in centro comercial Calle Real Oklahoma is here in CR so that would explain that, as far as why exactly the same no clue other than ip is public.