Satellite Camps

[rolltide]

Well, the "same rules" argument can be made many different ways:

- SEC only plays 8 conference games
- B12 does not have a conf championship game
- "Full cost of tuition"? Tennessee is paying $5500 and Texas A&M is only paying $2700....is that fair?

Lots to discuss in addition to camps!

i was saying specific to recruiting

obviously there are massive differences when you start getting into costs of schools, tuition prices, curriculum, conference games, scheduling, AD budgets, semester vs trimester, stadium size, resources, etc.

i'm saying same rules for recruiting be it camps, early enrollment, etc....

like I will always say...i cherish the anti-Bama, anti-Saban rhetoric. Guessing if Mike Shula was leading this charge you guys wouldn't have blinked

what's funny is it sounds like you guys totally agree with saban that the power-5 should all have the same structure regarding # of conference games, recruiting, conference championship game, bowl games outside the structure of the semifinal & final.... your blind hatred of success doesn't allow you to see that so clearly. too bad

 

[cloverleaf]

The SEC athletic directors voted to drop restrictions on satellite camps for their schools. If the rule is not adopted nationally, SEC coaches are free to fan out all over the country and believe me they will big time! Given the disadvantage of strict adherence to the current NCAA rule, the SEC is ready and willing to exploit the same loophole as other conferences.

If this rule doesn't change on a national level, you'll see every school out there in full force next year causing problems. I'm betting the rule is about to be changed. Otherwise, you'll give coaches the ground, and they'll run the camps and recruit all summer long.

 

[MackDonald]

There was a time when professional football franchises had some "territorial" rights to college players. With all the sophisticated recruiting going on in college football today, it wouldn't surprise me if some hair-brained scheme would be enacted where colleges would have "territorial rights" to HS. recruits. Seems to me I recall some small-talk about this years ago.......Just wondering....

 

[RunLeeRun]

Personally, I dont think it can be a free for all. There are time restrictions....recruiting hours limits, if I read correctly.

The SEC can only fan out so much. Besides a couple of regions, a good bulk of the recruits are in its own backyard....the north teams arent camping in north regions. Would seem to me this isnt the best method of investment for the south. Besides, the SEC doesnt need anymore "advertisement" via satellite camps. They are the strongest national brand. They already draw attention from top national recruits.These camps seem most likely,imo, about finding under scouted talent. The top SEC teams are going after and landing top talent, as indicated by recruiting rankings.

It seems to me this is just SEC posturing. There isnt much net gain in this for them. In fact, I might go so far as say it would be a net loss. This is a rule they have in place because they cant trust each other. It's already cutthroat as it is, not sure they want to turn back the clock to the 80's.

I'm sure northern coaches would concede this if official visits were allowed during the summer. Kind of hard for some programs to fly kids in for a game, when they themselves are in the midst of a season. That would be a profound change to recruiting, not these satellite camps.

 

[GoSooners]

Yeah, the idea of the SEC going up north and stealing Big 10 recruits is pretty laughable when you consider who they have in their backyard. The South is my last concern with these satellite camps. It's Texas that I'm worried about. The SEC has not only come in and raided a few blue chip recruits, there's this guy up north that goes by the name of Meyer that now seems to love Texas. So it's the Texans and the Oklahoman's that should be doing the bitching. But these days Stoops seems to have the "were better than most" attitude about winning instead of striving to be the best.

 

[rolltide]

Yeah, the idea of the SEC going up north and stealing Big 10 recruits is pretty laughable when you consider who they have in their backyard.

laughable as in a Bama's first ever Heisman Trophy winner or Bama's "go-to" WR in 2015?

like i said I wouldn't poke at the SEC on this issue. While RLR thinks the camps can be a good way for Mich and Nebby to pull some 2.5 star that was ready to commit to South Florida the SEC would be running these things to snag more Mark Ingram's not for the overachiever.

I wouldn't be shocked if everyone didn't just agree that camps should be outlawed because northern areas with some great recruits without signature programs (NJ, Pgh, DC) will see even more of a southern exodus than they currently do.

Guys like RLR, Coach, and GS are smart enough to know that landing on junky's side of any discussion is a losing proposition

 

[CoachCB]

There's only a few places I could see the SEC wanting to go into: Ohio, Virginia/DC area, Philly area, and Charlotte.

The SEC would like to recruit Texas stronger (outside of A&M, Arkansas, Missouri and LSU). So I could see UGA, Bama, Auburn, or UF going to Houston or Dallas or San Antonio.

 

[GoSooners]

laughable as in a Bama's first ever Heisman Trophy winner or Bama's "go-to" WR in 2015?

like i said I wouldn't poke at the SEC on this issue. While RLR thinks the camps can be a good way for Mich and Nebby to pull some 2.5 star that was ready to commit to South Florida the SEC would be running these things to snag more Mark Ingram's not for the overachiever.

I wouldn't be shocked if everyone didn't just agree that camps should be outlawed because northern areas with some great recruits without signature programs (NJ, Pgh, DC) will see even more of a southern exodus than they currently do.

Guys like RLR, Coach, and GS are smart enough to know that landing on junky's side of any discussion is a losing proposition

RT...Something tells me Saban didn't get those players out of satellite camps. They went directly to the source, which is what the bluebloods do, and the source said "yes." I was referring mainly to Texas because the SEC is already going there whether there are camps or not, along with Ohio State. It hurts an already struggling conference. I think all that these northern teams are going to pull out of the south are the 2 or 3 star recruits. But there are many different types of 3 star recruits that you can't evaluate from 2000 miles away.

 

[cloverleaf]

Guys, thinking SEC coaches are too worried about their home states is kind of funny other than maybe Florida or Georgia. How many outside big time programs want to spend a lot of time and resources in say Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee or Missouri recruiting. Does the Big Ten or any conference really want to open up this can of worms. Hell, plays right into teams like Alabama, LSU, etc.

The past three years, Saban has landed top recruits (either 4 or 5 star) in California, Iowa, Minnesota, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Penn, Virginia, Utah, New York, Washington, DC, Oklahoma all outside the South. Yeah, sure you want the best recruiting staff in the country going to Hawaii, Arizona, Montana, Vermont or Alaska for God's sake. Alaska has a 5star RB and Bama coaches would be riding snowmobiles in for the camp. If any state has a player Bama wants then Alabama coaches would have their camps set up near that prospect.

Open up the satellite camps nationally....then listen to the weeping/gnashing of teeth in a year or two from the Big Ten and others.

 

[GoSooners]

Clover, a few years ago I was curious how Bama was consistently a top ranked recruiting program year after. So I did some research on it. It was one of the first articles that I wrote for my website. Saban uses a very interesting process, and it has nothing to do with satellite camps. Your right, they set up shop and follow these kid's entire HS careers and they also get to know their families as well. These kids are all listed on a main board, just like the way they do the NFL draft. Some get taken off, and some stay on it. They all have to meet certain criteria as far as size and speed at their position. It's a great way to recruit IF you have the money and resources of an Alabama. But that's what seperates the Blubloods from the rest. Jimbo Fisher has also adopted Saban's recruiting methods. And we've seen how that is paying off for FSU. Something tells me that Saban wants a better look at these kids than what he can get from a couple days at a satellite camp. I don't really think these kinds of camps are necessary for a school like Bama.

 

[CoachCB]

Guys, thinking SEC coaches are too worried about their home states is kind of funny other than maybe Florida or Georgia. How many outside big time programs want to spend a lot of time and resources in say Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee or Missouri recruiting. Does the Big Ten or any conference really want to open up this can of worms. Hell, plays right into teams like Alabama, LSU, etc.

The past three years, Saban has landed top recruits (either 4 or 5 star) in California, Iowa, Minnesota, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Penn, Virginia, Utah, New York, Washington, DC, Oklahoma all outside the South. Yeah, sure you want the best recruiting staff in the country going to Hawaii, Arizona, Montana, Vermont or Alaska for God's sake. Alaska has a 5star RB and Bama coaches would be riding snowmobiles in for the camp. If any state has a player Bama wants then Alabama coaches would have their camps set up near that prospect.

Open up the satellite camps nationally....then listen to the weeping/gnashing of teeth in a year or two from the Big Ten and others.

Saban is a machine. Only Meyer comes close. Jimbo Fisher does a good job as well, but he's a distant 3rd/4th.

 

[cloverleaf]

GS my friend, these camps are where the Alabama's, LSU's and other top tier teams really get a good look at a kid other than on film. Most decisions on recruiting a player come DIRECTLY off what a player shows at one of these camps. Alabama offers scholarships after these summer camps.

The Alabama's, Auburn's, LSU's etc. have a certain criteria for what they want in a player. Speed, size, athletic ability has to show ABOVE the HS hype of these players before these camps. A slow 4star HS star can drop to a 2star prospect in a hurry.

Many a hot-shot player has been down-graded once seen in person. Flipside, some are up-graded.

 

[cloverleaf]

Coach, damn ole Jimbo has learned well under his former mentor. The past few years...thinking Fisher is probably above average....even with his former boss.

Kudos for Jimbo dumping a QB on Saban who may never be the leader either team needed.

Anyone who thinks Fisher and Saban aren't close even today...no one Fisher respects more.

 

[GoSooners]

GS my friend, these camps are where the Alabama's, LSU's and other top tier teams really get a good look at a kid other than on film. Most decisions on recruiting a player come DIRECTLY off what a player shows at one of these camps. Alabama offers scholarships after these summer camps.

The Alabama's, Auburn's, LSU's etc. have a certain criteria for what they want in a player. Speed, size, athletic ability has to show ABOVE the HS hype of these players before these camps. A slow 4star HS star can drop to a 2star prospect in a hurry.

Many a hot-shot player has been down-graded once seen in person. Flipside, some are up-graded.

Everybody has their opinion, but I think most of these decisions are made when these kids are still in HS.

 

[cloverleaf]

My gang and I love you GoSooners....BUT....my friend. More and more scholarships are not based/given off scouting reports from all these (Pro) touting services. Bama has a couple camps a year where they know (In person) if the players are REAL...or they will play the recruiting game and post them lower on their board...which means...if they can sign a better player...done deal. If not...let's take another look...and get the next best prospect.

College football is NUMBER ONE about recruiting....right now Bama does it best.

 

[rolltide]

RT...Something tells me Saban didn't get those players out of satellite camps. .

of course not since they weren't allowed from SEC programs. But i think you missed my point...if Bama can pull some top kids out of MI/NJ (whichever you want to classify Ingram under) and PA (Robert Foster) without really even trying what do you think they will do camping out in Pitt's back yard or hosting satellite camps in Detroit (<50 miles from Ann Arbor) and DC (<50 miles from Maryland) or LA (obviously ucal/usc territory)?

Since they are now allowed to start building relationships with regional HS coaches/players via satellite camps the only school immune to regional SEC power grab will be an Urban-led OSU program.

Franklin couldn't care less if UGA set up a satellite camp in Creepy Valley since there isn't anyone to recruit within 90 miles of that cesspool. He might not appreciate Florida firing one up in Harrisburg, DC, or Trenton however

 

[RunLeeRun]

laughable as in a Bama's first ever Heisman Trophy winner or Bama's "go-to" WR in 2015?

like i said I wouldn't poke at the SEC on this issue. While RLR thinks the camps can be a good way for Mich and Nebby to pull some 2.5 star that was ready to commit to South Florida the SEC would be running these things to snag more Mark Ingram's not for the overachiever.

I wouldn't be shocked if everyone didn't just agree that camps should be outlawed because northern areas with some great recruits without signature programs (NJ, Pgh, DC) will see even more of a southern exodus than they currently do.

Guys like RLR, Coach, and GS are smart enough to know that landing on junky's side of any discussion is a losing proposition

Careful now, you and junky both agree that these camps are short lived.

We both know recruiting services have flaws. For all they get right with the 5 stars, the lines are blurred between what is and isn't a 4 or 3 star. There are example after examples of this and too many variables to say where the truth may lie. Though, I'm sure we'd agree coaching and all the intangibles that come with it are at the top. Just as there are top recruiting teams that can't win to said recruiting level, there are lower ranked teams that exceed their expectations. And at the end of the day, I doubt Saban and his army of recruiters care what rivals say, other than to use it as some kind of pitch. These camps are minuscule in the grand scheme of recruiting. I'd bet the biggest effect they have is moving dialogue on other, more important, recruiting issues.

The fact that SEC coaches and faithful are so passionate on this subject just goes to show how important the sport is. It also shows a bit of nervousness from it's recent downturn.

 

[GoSooners]

These camps are minuscule in the grand scheme of recruiting. I'd bet the biggest effect they have is moving dialogue on other, more important, recruiting issues.

Which is why I'm surprised they are making such a big deal out of these camps. If a 4 or 5 star recruit doesn't have 10 invites from big schools by the time he graduates, there's something seriously wrong. I'm not sure why they think they need the extra exposure unless they are looking to attend a specific school that hasn't given them an invite. I think Bama and most other teams know exactly what they want after watching a 5 star kid all through his HS career and the Rivals football camp. No doubt all of these schools are attending these satellite camps, but I'll bet their prime recruiting isn't done through these camps. They were doing perfectly fine before they came along.

 

[groundhog11]

of course not since they weren't allowed from SEC programs. But i think you missed my point...if Bama can pull some top kids out of MI/NJ (whichever you want to classify Ingram under) and PA (Robert Foster) without really even trying what do you think they will do camping out in Pitt's back yard or hosting satellite camps in Detroit (<50 miles from Ann Arbor) and DC (<50 miles from Maryland) or LA (obviously ucal/usc territory)?

Since they are now allowed to start building relationships with regional HS coaches/players via satellite camps the only school immune to regional SEC power grab will be an Urban-led OSU program.

Franklin couldn't care less if UGA set up a satellite camp in Creepy Valley since there isn't anyone to recruit within 90 miles of that cesspool. He might not appreciate Florida firing one up in Harrisburg, DC, or Trenton however

Is is foster going to get any pt this year? I thought he would transfer back to WVU or Pitt..

 

[groundhog11]

I think it is a big deal...its lets coaches from up north get to meet the players etc...how about a kid with scholarship offers from all sec schools....with only 5 official visits, chances prob reduce by getting them up north for a visit...with football season,weather etc...if a kid hits it off with one of the coaches they will be able to get him to campus for a visit...then the schools can put on the full court press for them.