Omar Vizquel... Hall of Fame or no?

[VIEJODINOSAUR]

It's too bad there's no such thing as the "Hall of Very Good." That's where guys like Vizquel (and Rafael Palmeiro and Craig Biggio, among 3,000-hit players) belong.

Vizquel plays a fantastic shortstop and makes the team around him better, but he's not one of the greatest ever to play the game. He has never been one of those game-transforming players (like Ozzie Smith was; he changed the way shortstops played when he came along), but an excellent player.

The HOF has been cheapened by the inclusion of many, many borderline players, in my opinion. I'd like to see them open some sort of special wing, honoring only the greatest of the great. If they did that, you could make a case for the inclusion of more players like Omar Vizquel.

nice post....:aktion033

 

[FairWarning]

I thought you were asking me defensively

No, the whole package. What really legitimized Ozzie Smith's career was the Game 5 HR off Tom Niedenfeur. He was regarded as a great fielder/no stick until then. As great a fielder Vizquel is, he only had 2 seasons of >60 rbis.

 

[levistep]

No, the whole package. What really legitimized Ozzie Smith's career was the Game 5 HR off Tom Niedenfeur. He was regarded as a great fielder/no stick until then. As great a fielder Vizquel is, he only had 2 seasons of >60 rbis.

Never understood how some people can justify someone's appearance in the Hall of Fame because of one at bat/play.

 

[Journeyman]

He is a tremendous fielder no doubt, he's no Ozzie though...

Best SS-2B combo ever IMO him and Alomar.

I don't think he will hang around to get 500 more hits...that is still a lot of hits.

 

[HinesWard86]

It's too bad there's no such thing as the "Hall of Very Good." That's where guys like Vizquel (and Rafael Palmeiro and Craig Biggio, among 3,000-hit players) belong.

Vizquel plays a fantastic shortstop and makes the team around him better, but he's not one of the greatest ever to play the game. He has never been one of those game-transforming players (like Ozzie Smith was; he changed the way shortstops played when he came along), but an excellent player.

The HOF has been cheapened by the inclusion of many, many borderline players, in my opinion. I'd like to see them open some sort of special wing, honoring only the greatest of the great. If they did that, you could make a case for the inclusion of more players like Omar Vizquel.

I know some sportswriters have argued that the HOF building should be a pyramid structure. With the better players on the higher levels until u get to the top and the elite of the elite. I would love to see this idea implemented.

 

[fhmesq44]

He is a tremendous fielder no doubt,

But is he really? Sure, he is smooth and makes plays on virtually everything he gets to. But is he really "tremendous"? His range is very ordinary when you talk about "great" (or even very good) defensive shortstops.

Great posts Viejo Dinosaur (#16) and YourAllAmerican.

 

[JohnnyB]

It's too bad there's no such thing as the "Hall of Very Good." That's where guys like Vizquel (and Rafael Palmeiro and Craig Biggio, among 3,000-hit players) belong.

Vizquel plays a fantastic shortstop and makes the team around him better, but he's not one of the greatest ever to play the game. He has never been one of those game-transforming players (like Ozzie Smith was; he changed the way shortstops played when he came along), but an excellent player.

The HOF has been cheapened by the inclusion of many, many borderline players, in my opinion. I'd like to see them open some sort of special wing, honoring only the greatest of the great. If they did that, you could make a case for the inclusion of more players like Omar Vizquel.

Spot on.

 

[JohnnyB]

I was serious. Rennie Stennett went 7-7 vs the Cubs back in 1975.

Word. Was the 6-6 in the 22-0 ass beating of the Tanks what you were referring to or is there some other defining moment of his career? I can't of any off the top of my head.

 

[Antonioli]

No because he is not American.

 

[Journeyman]

But is he really? Sure, he is smooth and makes plays on virtually everything he gets to. But is he really "tremendous"? His range is very ordinary when you talk about "great" (or even very good) defensive shortstops.

Great posts Viejo Dinosaur (#16) and YourAllAmerican.

11 GG, yes he was tremendous IMO, in his prime....he's won two straight in the NL now and at this age that is saying something, at that position.

 

[fhmesq44]

GG's are as much reputational as anything else, especially once you win one. I think he was damn good defensively. However, when I looked at his numbers they weren't as good as I expected them to be. Why, I have no idea. Ozzie Smith AVERAGED 65 more assist over a 12 season stretch than Vizquel had in his best season. That is absurd.

 

[Journeyman]

GG's are as much reputational as anything else, especially once you win one. I think he was damn good defensively. However, when I looked at his numbers they weren't as good as I expected them to be. Why, I have no idea. Ozzie Smith AVERAGED 65 more assist over a 12 season stretch than Vizquel had in his best season. That is absurd.

I have seen you mention that.... I'm not sure why but, perhaps it's the NL with a pitcher batting , compared to the DH, a pitcher is more likely to ground out to short than a DH? This is just a hunch as to why it may be such a large margin.

 

[thegambler711]

He is a tremendous fielder no doubt, he's no Ozzie though...

Best SS-2B combo ever IMO him and Alomar.

I don't think he will hang around to get 500 more hits...that is still a lot of hits.

I respectfully disagree. I think the best ss-2b combo ever was Gene Alley and MAZ.

 

[5teamparlay]

7-20-07:

Omar Vizquel played his 2,511th game at shortstop, tying Ozzie Smith for second on the career list behind Venezuelan countryman Luis Aparicio (2,583). "Sometimes it's hard to play a lot of games like that," said Vizquel, an 11-time Gold Glover. "That's the way I grew up: be out there as many games as I can. No excuses."

STILL SAY NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ChrisParadise]

unless he gets the 3000 - no chance

if he gets the 3000 - hes in

 

[joebatters]

I'm an Indians fan, and so I watched him a lot during his prime years....
and I've always followed MLB shortstops...IMO there is no way anyone could be any better defensively than Omar....just as good as Ozzie. And IMO a little better hitter than Ozzie. If Ozzie's in, Omar should be as well.

 

[Journeyman]

I'm an Indians fan, and so I watched him a lot during his prime years....
and I've always followed MLB shortstops...IMO there is no way anyone could be any better defensively than Omar....just as good as Ozzie. And IMO a little better hitter than Ozzie. If Ozzie's in, Omar should be as well.

It really is amazing to me he will be this close to 3000 hits...when I think back to his early yrs...looks like he will finish at around 2,800 .

I don't know how anyone who watched him play can say he wasn't an amazing fielder, I did see quite a few of his games being an AL fan, I can't imagine anyone being that much better besides Ozzie who was the best fielding SS to ever live.

I just can't see Omar in the HALL .

 

[VIEJODINOSAUR]

I'm an Indians fan, and so I watched him a lot during his prime years....
and I've always followed MLB shortstops...IMO there is no way anyone could be any better defensively than Omar....just as good as Ozzie. And IMO a little better hitter than Ozzie. If Ozzie's in, Omar should be as well.

Omar is a great shortstop, but Ozzie is the shortstop that everyone is compared to...he is just a cut above Omar...the recent addition of Maz makes a good case for Omar....even though Maz was a second baseman, his accomplishments are below Omar's...

 

[maxdemo]

Vizquel is considered one of baseball's all-time best defensive shortstops, having nine consecutiveGold Gloves (1993-2001) and two consecutive in 2005-2006. He also tied Cal Ripken's AL record for most consecutive games without an error (95 between September 26, 1999 and July 21, 2001). In Cleveland he joined Kenny Lofton as the first pair of Indians to win Gold Gloves since Vic Power and Jimmy Piersall did in 1961. As of 2005, his .984 career fielding percentage is the highest of all-time for a shortstop in major league history. On April 20, 2007 he passed Cal Ripken Jr. with his 2479th hit to record the second most career hits while playing shortstop in the past 50 years, second only to Luis Aparicio. Omar is fifth all-time in career hits-while-playing-shortstop behind Honus Wagner, Luke Appling, Luis Aparicio, and Rabbit Maranville.


Baseball records and accomplishments

Defense
All-time leader for double plays as a shortstop
11-time Gold Glove recipient (1993-2001, 2005-6)
Second-highest number of Gold Gloves received by a shortstop
Oldest shortstop recipient of the Gold Glove (ages 38 & 39)
Highest career fielding percentage by a shortstop (0.984)
American League record holder (tie) for most consecutive games without an error (95 between September 26, 1999-July 21, 2001)

Offense
Fifth-most hits-while-playing-shortstop all-time
Second-most hits-while-playing-shortstop within the past 50 years
The 83rd major league player to reach 2500 career hits (May 6, 2007)
Fifth-most hits by an active player
Fifth-most games played by an active player
Fourth-most at-bats by an active player
American League record holder (tie) for most hits in a nine inning game (6) - Went 6-7 on August 31, 2004 in the Indians 22-0 win over the Yankees, the worst shut-out loss in league history
Recorded 350th stolen base (June 21, 2006)

Overall
3-time All-Star (1998, 1999 & 2002)
Won 2 American League Championships (with Cleveland, 1995, 1997)
Won 6 American League Central Division Championships (with Cleveland, 1995-9, 2001)
Won the Hutch Award (1996), the only non-American player ever to do so
Won the Willie Mac Award (2006) for spirit and leadership
Captain of Venezuelan World Baseball Classic team (2006)

 

[maxdemo]

he has 2500+ hits at age 40...no way he gets to 3000