this is what they did in the 1930s with insane tax rates for the evil rich business dudes
you have to take from somebody to give to somebody else
the poor don't create jobs
the "rich" that invest, save, start businesses, own businesses do
all your gonna do is make matters worse
bottom line the past american way of living was all a mirage....our consumption, high debt, and lack of savings was unsustainable and had to end at some point
so now we need to go through some pain for our past mistakes.....there are no free rides
people need to save more, people need to be more fiscally responsible, and there will be a brighter day for america down the road
the more we keep promoting spending on garbage we don't need, fiscal irresponsibility, etc.....the more gloom for america over the long haul
no country can survive without savings and a fiscally responsible base of citizens
the poor already have enough backstops as it is between welfare, UE pay, severance pay with companies, food stamps etc....
tiz probably lives in poverty based on what I SPEND according to the government.....and i feel i live like a king....american's are spoiled beyond belief the way we live with so much waste......
the reason government can still afford all that whereas in the 30s when they started UE and such they had to tax the shit outta the rich with like 60-70% tax rates
is that our economy is more developed and has alot of companies and things the world depends and we are able to sustain a larger debt burden on the near term
that said if we aren't careful and don't start promoting the overall population of citizens to start saving and take a more fiscal responsible path rather than debt, debt, debt, spend, spend, spend
like we've been doing for a long time now eventually we could lose the AAA rating on our bonds like a couple countries already have and maybe go as far as default on our debt at which point all hell breaks loose and you made a bad situation much much worse
tiz probably lives in poverty based on what I SPEND according to the government.....and i feel i live like a king....american's are spoiled beyond belief the way we live with so much waste......
the reason government can still afford all that whereas in the 30s when they started UE and such they had to tax the shit outta the rich with like 60-70% tax rates
is that our economy is more developed and has alot of companies and things the world depends and we are able to sustain a larger debt burden on the near term
that said if we aren't careful and don't start promoting the overall population of citizens to start saving and take a more fiscal responsible path rather than debt, debt, debt, spend, spend, spend
like we've been doing for a long time now eventually we could lose the AAA rating on our bonds like a couple countries already have and maybe go as far as default on our debt at which point all hell breaks loose and you made a bad situation much much worse
WTF is wrong with you. Yeah the poor will help us get out of this mess. LMAO what are you thinking. We already "give" money to the poor. How bout the fucking poor stop doing whatever they are doing to be poor. Like commoiting crime and making fucking babies.
Go figure another lefty loon with that type of thinking.
What do you think welfare, food stamps, free medical, and section 8 is. We already give too much money to the fucking anchors on society. Hell the poor is one of the reasons we are in this fucked up shit.
Thats just stupid. WOW people actually think like this is scary to me.
LOL Is that the new lefty loon catch phrase "rebalancing" what are you a fucking communist or what.
Like I said above. Stop smoking stop drinking and get to fucking work. These people are poor for a reason. They chose to live thier life differently than the successful folks. See here in this country you also have the right to be a loser and be a bum.
Anchors on thier lives. They need to get a job and help themselves. We all see how great the welfare system has been for them. Hell it has done more damage than good.
LOLOLOLOL Lefty libs with all thier bleeding hearts is fucking this country up.
LOL Barney Frank everyone "deserves a house" LOL what an asshole.
well that's a different discussion
the boom/busts artificially created by the SOCIALIST federal reserve, banks (who have government and fed as their backstop), and government intervention into the free market place enslaving the economically dumbed down middle class in overvalue equities, bubbling homes, and gobs of debt during the boom
the rich and elite love the boom/busts that they help create and allows them to concentrate more wealth and market share to big corporations, banks etc....
right now many small banks going
up the big boys will survive with help from nanny state governmentright now many mom and pop shops going outta business wal mart will survive
right now many small restaurants going outta business the chains for the most part will survive
etc...
the engineered boom/busts lets the big boys reap the benefits on the way up.....and allows them to consolidate power and more market share on the way down.....
i'm not saying people themselves not at any fault....but quite a bit of social engineering and entrapment goes on at the same time.....
gotcha and, as my first post said, i wouldn't really want govt getting involved in this anyway. they screw everything up so there's no way they'd get this right.
the closing costs i was quoted was 2.5% of the total loan amount which i thought was a joke. The rate was right in line with yours
punter, i honestly can't form a response to the solution being give money to the poor because they will spend it. how about give money to the middle or upper middle class, people that start businesses and put people to work? but, since i think you sort of said it tongue-in-cheek, i won't carry on to refute the statement
Bottom line, people need to stop spending and start saving. Spending got us into this mess, spending will not get us out. But the gov. will conitnue to spend and spend and spend, and will tell the people to spend and spend and spend. Like I said in another thread, this country deserves every fucking thing that happens to it.
also punter don't worry the "stimulus" to "create jobs" has plenty of added backstops to expand our welfare program and get money to the poor that will spend it....
in the end this "stimulus bill" is better called "government wants to make sure poor at least have roof over their head and food on the table so they aren't rioting in the streets bill"
---------------------------
The federal stimulus package is designed to create millions of jobs, but it also provides many benefits to those who just can't find work.
The measure, which congressional leaders hope to finish next week, currently proposes:
increasing and extending unemployment insurance;
expanding coverage to more low-income and part-time workers;
subsidizing health insurance coverage;
and recharging state unemployment insurance trust funds, which are running dry as layoffs climb.
A growing number of people are depending on unemployment benefits, with continuing jobless claims hitting a record 4.79 million in late-January. The figures are sure to grow with companies shedding more than 250,000 jobs so far this year.
The federal government releases January's national unemployment rate on Friday. Currently at 7.2%, it is expected to rise to 7.5%.
Bigger checks: The unemployed would see their checks rise by $25 a week, paid for with federal funds. The current average weekly benefit is $297.
The increase would have a big impact on those at the lower end of the pay scale who are likely to spend it all, said Wayne Vroman, economist with the Urban Institute.
Mike Grigsby of Portland, Ore., would certainly welcome another $25 a week. The political organizer is scraping by on a weekly pre-tax benefit of $304, which barely covers his $545 monthly rent and other expenses.
"I could have fresh fruits and vegetables in the house, instead of canned goods," said Grigsby, 37, who has been unemployed since November. "I could buy a new interview suit at Goodwill."
The Senate version would also forgive income taxes on the first $2,400 of benefits.
Extended benefits: The bill push back the deadline to apply for extended benefits.
The jobless typically get 26 weeks of unemployment insurance, paid for by the states. Last summer, the Bush administration and Congress added an additional 13 weeks of benefits, paid for by the federal government.
In November, federal officials added another seven weeks of benefits in all states. Those who live in states with unemployment rates higher than 6% -- 34 states meet that criteria as of December -- could receive a total of 20 additional weeks.
The federal program is set to expire in March, but under the stimulus package, the jobless could apply for the extended federal benefits through Dec. 31.
With the deepening recession making it harder for people to land new positions, extending benefits is crucial, said Heidi Shierholz, economist at the Economic Policy Institute.
Randall Paynter depends on his $320 weekly unemployment check to support his family. Even though his wife works full-time, they are living on half of what they did before Paynter lost his job as a warehouse supervisor in May.
A Rome, Ga., resident, Paynter is back in school studying computers in hopes of getting a job in automated manufacturing. But he doesn't graduate until 2010 so he hopes the federal government keeps extending the benefits.
"I need as much time as I can get to get retrained," said Paynter, 54, who has an 11-year-old son.
Expanding coverage: The package would enact the Unemployment Insurance Modernization Act, which provides $7 billion in incentives for states to expand the ranks of jobless that qualify for benefits.
States that allow workers to count more recent wages in their applications could share in $2.3 billion. The remaining funds would go to states that adopt additional reforms, including providing benefits to those seeking part-time work and those who quit because of a family member's illness or relocation of a spouse.
States would also divvy up $500 million to cover administrative costs.
This expansion would allow more women, part-timers and low-wage workers - who are often the most vulnerable of the unemployed - to collect benefits, Vroman said.
Subsidized access to health insurance: The bill would allow many workers to continue coverage under their former employer's health insurance, known as Cobra, by subsidizing 65% of the premiums for as long a year. The benefit would apply to those who lose their jobs between September 2008 and the end of 2009.
The typical family premium under Cobra is $1,000, according to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.
The House bill would also allow workers who are 55 and older, or have been with their employer for at least a decade, to extend their Cobra until they become eligible for Medicare or secure coverage with another company.
Also, those unemployed whose family's gross income is below 200% of the federal poverty guidelines could temporarily receive Medicaid, under the House bill. The benefit, paid for by the federal government, would apply to those who lose their jobs between September 2008 and the end of 2010.
Assistance for states: The package would temporarily waive interest payments and accrual of interest on loans taken by states to pay unemployment benefits. Five states - Indiana, Michigan, New York, Ohio and South Carolina - are currently borrowing from the federal government.
Safety and stimulus
Advocates for the jobless are hailing the provisions in the package, saying they will help those struggling to survive while looking for work, said Christine Owens, executive director of the National Employment Law Project.
On top of that, it will help stimulate the economy, since most people receiving unemployment benefits spend the money quickly, economist said.
"It's the right thing to do by workers most hurt by the recession and it's really smart economic policy," Shierholz said.
in the end this "stimulus bill" is better called "government wants to make sure poor at least have roof over their head and food on the table so they aren't rioting in the streets bill"
---------------------------
The federal stimulus package is designed to create millions of jobs, but it also provides many benefits to those who just can't find work.
The measure, which congressional leaders hope to finish next week, currently proposes:
increasing and extending unemployment insurance;
expanding coverage to more low-income and part-time workers;
subsidizing health insurance coverage;
and recharging state unemployment insurance trust funds, which are running dry as layoffs climb.
A growing number of people are depending on unemployment benefits, with continuing jobless claims hitting a record 4.79 million in late-January. The figures are sure to grow with companies shedding more than 250,000 jobs so far this year.
The federal government releases January's national unemployment rate on Friday. Currently at 7.2%, it is expected to rise to 7.5%.
Bigger checks: The unemployed would see their checks rise by $25 a week, paid for with federal funds. The current average weekly benefit is $297.
The increase would have a big impact on those at the lower end of the pay scale who are likely to spend it all, said Wayne Vroman, economist with the Urban Institute.
Mike Grigsby of Portland, Ore., would certainly welcome another $25 a week. The political organizer is scraping by on a weekly pre-tax benefit of $304, which barely covers his $545 monthly rent and other expenses.
"I could have fresh fruits and vegetables in the house, instead of canned goods," said Grigsby, 37, who has been unemployed since November. "I could buy a new interview suit at Goodwill."
The Senate version would also forgive income taxes on the first $2,400 of benefits.
Extended benefits: The bill push back the deadline to apply for extended benefits.
The jobless typically get 26 weeks of unemployment insurance, paid for by the states. Last summer, the Bush administration and Congress added an additional 13 weeks of benefits, paid for by the federal government.
In November, federal officials added another seven weeks of benefits in all states. Those who live in states with unemployment rates higher than 6% -- 34 states meet that criteria as of December -- could receive a total of 20 additional weeks.
The federal program is set to expire in March, but under the stimulus package, the jobless could apply for the extended federal benefits through Dec. 31.
With the deepening recession making it harder for people to land new positions, extending benefits is crucial, said Heidi Shierholz, economist at the Economic Policy Institute.
Randall Paynter depends on his $320 weekly unemployment check to support his family. Even though his wife works full-time, they are living on half of what they did before Paynter lost his job as a warehouse supervisor in May.
A Rome, Ga., resident, Paynter is back in school studying computers in hopes of getting a job in automated manufacturing. But he doesn't graduate until 2010 so he hopes the federal government keeps extending the benefits.
"I need as much time as I can get to get retrained," said Paynter, 54, who has an 11-year-old son.
Expanding coverage: The package would enact the Unemployment Insurance Modernization Act, which provides $7 billion in incentives for states to expand the ranks of jobless that qualify for benefits.
States that allow workers to count more recent wages in their applications could share in $2.3 billion. The remaining funds would go to states that adopt additional reforms, including providing benefits to those seeking part-time work and those who quit because of a family member's illness or relocation of a spouse.
States would also divvy up $500 million to cover administrative costs.
This expansion would allow more women, part-timers and low-wage workers - who are often the most vulnerable of the unemployed - to collect benefits, Vroman said.
Subsidized access to health insurance: The bill would allow many workers to continue coverage under their former employer's health insurance, known as Cobra, by subsidizing 65% of the premiums for as long a year. The benefit would apply to those who lose their jobs between September 2008 and the end of 2009.
The typical family premium under Cobra is $1,000, according to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.
The House bill would also allow workers who are 55 and older, or have been with their employer for at least a decade, to extend their Cobra until they become eligible for Medicare or secure coverage with another company.
Also, those unemployed whose family's gross income is below 200% of the federal poverty guidelines could temporarily receive Medicaid, under the House bill. The benefit, paid for by the federal government, would apply to those who lose their jobs between September 2008 and the end of 2010.
Assistance for states: The package would temporarily waive interest payments and accrual of interest on loans taken by states to pay unemployment benefits. Five states - Indiana, Michigan, New York, Ohio and South Carolina - are currently borrowing from the federal government.
Safety and stimulus
Advocates for the jobless are hailing the provisions in the package, saying they will help those struggling to survive while looking for work, said Christine Owens, executive director of the National Employment Law Project.
On top of that, it will help stimulate the economy, since most people receiving unemployment benefits spend the money quickly, economist said.
"It's the right thing to do by workers most hurt by the recession and it's really smart economic policy," Shierholz said.
no you got it backwards its handing the have nots a few scraps to stay content and have less motivation to build a business or learn a new skill that or take to the streets and fight the crooked system as the corporate fascists communistic government with its revolving door between goverment and big business does as it pleases hoarding more powers and raping hard working citizens a little at a time via heavy government spending and high taxation.....
all the huge fat cats, elite, celebrities etc...in this country are socialists...
where have you been?
the small businessman and savers and fiscally responsible people in the middle class are the conservatives...granted they do have their poor southerners that like the bible thumping and war on terror...but i'm talking more along the lines of economics here
all the huge fat cats, elite, celebrities etc...in this country are socialists...
where have you been?
the small businessman and savers and fiscally responsible people in the middle class are the conservatives...granted they do have their poor southerners that like the bible thumping and war on terror...but i'm talking more along the lines of economics here
Alot of good points. Except you misstated Frank's position. He actually believes there should be LESS home ownership and more renters. He was a consistent and vocal opponent of the Bush administration's deregulation policies which encouraged more home buying.
What he's saying is that everyone deserves to have a roof over their head.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/01/12/090112fa_fact_toobin
According to Frank, at the root of the real-estate crisis was a misguided notion that homeownership should be available to all people—what President Bush has called “the ownership society.” “The ‘I told you so’ here is that homeownership is a nice thing but it is not suitable for everybody,” Frank said at Boston College. “There are people in this society who don’t have enough money to be homeowners, and there are people whose lives are not sufficiently integrated for them to take on the responsibility to be a homeowner. And we did too much pushing of people into inappropriate mortgages and into homeownership.” He said that many people would always be renters, and that there was nothing wrong with this. “We need to get back in the business of building rental housing and preserving the housing we have,” he said.
According to Frank, at the root of the real-estate crisis was a misguided notion that homeownership should be available to all people—what President Bush has called “the ownership society.” “The ‘I told you so’ here is that homeownership is a nice thing but it is not suitable for everybody,” Frank said at Boston College. “There are people in this society who don’t have enough money to be homeowners, and there are people whose lives are not sufficiently integrated for them to take on the responsibility to be a homeowner. And we did too much pushing of people into inappropriate mortgages and into homeownership.” He said that many people would always be renters, and that there was nothing wrong with this. “We need to get back in the business of building rental housing and preserving the housing we have,” he said.
