No more non gambling purchases

[sean1]

If I lived in England and was running neteller, I would have moved my operations to Antigua, used Bank of Antigua backed by the WTO, told the DOJ to go fuck themselves and never stepped foot inside the US again.

But that is just me. The US DOJ does not rule the world. In fact, outside of the US, they have no power whatsoever.

Sean

 

[johns1124]

All I know its been a month since the last update!

 

[johns1124]

1. Your EFTs are only delayed 1-2 weeks
(Neteller lied. EFTs never went through.)

2. Just use your debit card
(Neteller lied. Debit card service shut off 1/27)

The first and second one kills me. If I knew they were lying I could have taken my $$ out via Debit Card on day one. I believed them and was waiting the 14 days for the EFT. In the mean time they shut down DebitCard.

Neteller has been less then faithful this whole time.

 

[lander]

Given that NETeller has flat out deceived honest customers and hijacked their money, maybe in a sick I'm-going-to-never-see-my-money-again way the world is better off with the DOJ putting these jerks through the ringer.

 

[JimMorrison]

Given that NETeller has flat out deceived honest customers and hijacked their money, maybe in a sick I'm-going-to-never-see-my-money-again way the world is better off with the DOJ putting these jerks through the ringer.

Another intelligent poster.

So Neteller on it's own and independent of actions by the DOJ decided to deceive and steal money from their US clients while continuing to operate as normal for the rest of the world?

 

[JeffP]

Q. Did Neteller lose the ability to send EFTs through the US banking system?
A. Yes. Blame the DOJ for that.


Q. Did Neteller lose the ability to send money through the US banking system making debit card loads no longer possible?
A. Very likely. Blame the DOJ for that.

I can't blame Neteller execs for the above two scenarios. Very few of us ever really saw it coming.


But...


Q. How many thousands of US callers were out and out lied to by Neteller employees who knew full well what had gone down?
A. I mean come on... after the first 3-4 days they HAD to have known what had actually happened... and they continued to lie to us. It's the lying part that puts Neteller on par with thieves and scum.


Then...

Q. Did Netelelr lose the ability to send money to account holders in Canada and the UK who received peer-2-peer transfers from US residents?
A. Not likely at all. Shutting off peer-2-peer and closing the accounts of those who accepted peer-2-peer on behalf of US residents is just Neteller's way of giving their customers the finger.


And now...

Q. Did Neteller lose the ability to send money to non gambling merchants in Canada, Brazil, and the UK even if US residents were the ones making purchases from those merchants?
A. No fukking way! Neteller has no valid business reason whatsoever for shutting off merchant transfers by US residents to merchants in areas of the world where Neteller can still transact business. None. It's their way of continuing to give the finger to US residents.

But now, they're giving the shaft to non-gambling merchants as well... merchants who paid some fairly hefty account sign up fees to become Neteller merchants in the first place. This actually borders on criminal fraud. I wouldn't be at all surprised if one or more of their merchants turned around and sued Neteller for breach of contract.

Put the whole thing together and it really pisses me off that the people running Neteller get to breathe the same air that we do.


So...

So Neteller on it's own and independent of actions by the DOJ decided to deceive and steal money from their US clients while continuing to operate as normal for the rest of the world?

In a word: YES.



-jp

.

 

[JeffP]

One more...

Q. Is there any valid business reason in the world why Neteller wouldn't allow a US resident to simply fly to a location where Neteller can still transact business (Canada, The Isle of Man, Breat Britain, etc) and be paid the money sitting in their Neteller account?

A. None. Yet Neteller refuses to do this.

Can anybody out there tell me a valid reason why?


-jp

.

 

[JimMorrison]

Q. How many thousands of US callers were out and out lied to by Neteller employees who knew full well what had gone down?
A. I mean come on... after the first 3-4 days they HAD to have known what had actually happened... and they continued to lie to us. It's the lying part that puts Neteller on par with thieves and scum.

How do you know what the Neteller employees knew? They bungled this situation for sure. But I think it had more to do with awful customer service and their customer service not being informed by higher ups than outright intentional lying. Inept yes, thieves and scum no.

Q. Did Netelelr lose the ability to send money to account holders in Canada and the UK who received peer-2-peer transfers from US residents?
A. Not likely at all. Shutting off peer-2-peer and closing the accounts of those who accepted peer-2-peer on behalf of US residents is just Neteller's way of giving their customers the finger.

No it's their way of shutting of US residents while they try to make a deal or whatever the fuck is going on behind the scenes. People tried to get around it and it was publicized on several popular message boards including zoofags (2+2) so they stopped it. BTW only complete morons would talk about something like foreign P2P on public boards so blame yourselves.

Q. Did Neteller lose the ability to send money to non gambling merchants in Canada, Brazil, and the UK even if US residents were the ones making purchases from those merchants?
A. No fukking way! Neteller has no valid business reason whatsoever for shutting off merchant transfers by US residents to merchants in areas of the world where Neteller can still transact business. None. It's their way of continuing to give the finger to US residents.

See above.

But now, they're giving the shaft to non-gambling merchants as well... merchants who paid some fairly hefty account sign up fees to become Neteller merchants in the first place. This actually borders on criminal fraud. I wouldn't be at all surprised if one or more of their merchants turned around and sued Neteller for breach of contract.

What odds are you giving on the non-gaming merchants suing? Let's face facts here, Neteller is a fucking gaming transaction company everyone knows that. I highly doubt any legit non-gaming merchant had their business model based on Neteller transactions and are being hurt by not being able to sell products to people who are trying to get their money out of the US.

Put the whole thing together and it really pisses me off that the people running DOJ get to breathe the same air that we do.

FYP

Q. Is there any valid business reason in the world why Neteller wouldn't allow a US resident to simply fly to a location where Neteller can still transact business (Canada, The Isle of Man, Breat Britain, etc) and be paid the money sitting in their Neteller account?

A. None. Yet Neteller refuses to do this.

Can anybody out there tell me a valid reason why?

Because they are supposedly trying to deal with DOJ and it's clear the feds don't want US residents getting that money. So why jeopardize whatever possible deal there is, possible criminal charges against more people and the rest of their business?

Again, this sucks but it is what it is. Neteller is still doing solid business for the rest of the world. I'm not happy since everything shutting down is costing me money but I know where to put the blame.

 

[johns1124]

Your fogetting is Lie right from their FAQ

"Why isn’t my account certified anymore?

US member accounts have been temporarily de-certified to revoke Peer-to-Peer capabilities. These accounts should be automatically re-certified in the next few weeks, but Peer-to-Peer transfers will no longer be available to US members."

Mine is still uncertified how about yours?

 

[marc]

How do you know what the Neteller employees knew? They bungled this situation for sure. But I think it had more to do with awful customer service and their customer service not being informed by higher ups than outright intentional lying. Inept yes, thieves and scum no.

Wrong. CS repeats whatever management tells them to say. They kept telling people for weeks that EFT were going out, but that there were delays due to volume. It was an obvious lie, but managment instructed them to to give that abswer to US cusomters, and so they did.

All you have to do is read the press release that Neteller issued on Jan 18th. In that release Neteller keeps reiterating the fact that US customer funds are avaiable for withdrawal on demand. Then read the press release on Feb 8th. In that relase, Neteller acknowledges that they knew as of Jan 16th, that they had lost access to the US banking system.

Neteller execs were clearly lying. Likely they were hoiping to buy some extra time. Maybe they thought it would only be a matter of weeks before they cut a deal with the DOJ. But now it looks like they are in for a long fight.

In the case of BOS, the US forced BOS to agree to return player funds. (they haven't done a good job enforcing that agreement). I doubt the DOJ is trying to prevent Neteller from returning funds. My guess is that neteller doesn't want to retunr the funds until all the legal matters are resolved. That way they can use the interest they are earning on our money to help pay their legal fees.

 

[wolfie_cr]

Two things

Neteller security team for sure has fairly sofisticated analysis tools, the simple act of logging in from an IP where you are not suposed to be triggers all sorts of alarms, with that in mind, they dont have to read any forum/board to quickly figure out what is happening with the peer to peer and then non-gaming merchants. you simply look at the declining balances on US accounts that suposely are not going anywhere and then see where its going, piece of cake. Forum talk or not they would have figured it out.


Second, whether or not they are trying to make a deal it really doesnt matter one bit in my opinion, if I was neteller I am not sending a penny ANYWHERE until any and all possible fines against me are final, if I was to pay everyone and then the DOJ comes up with a 60 million dollar fine where am I going to get that $ out? I would simply sit with the $ until the dust clears.

and finally yeah, of course a CSR (normally) doesnt make things up, they follow a script that comes from higher up, if they were ALL saying that the EFTs would clear after 'x' weeks its because someone told them to say so.

 

[sean1]

The DOJ seized $55mm in shell accts.

Neteller is not going to send further money to the US until the DOJ assures them it will not be seized.

They have no incentive to do so.

Sean

 

[JeffP]

Second, whether or not they are trying to make a deal it really doesnt matter one bit in my opinion, if I was neteller I am not sending a penny ANYWHERE until any and all possible fines against me are final, if I was to pay everyone and then the DOJ comes up with a 60 million dollar fine where am I going to get that $ out? I would simply sit with the $ until the dust clears.

This is the part I have a real problem with. The money on deposit in customer accounts doesn't belong to Neteller. It isn't theirs to be used to pay operating expenses, legal fees, or fines. It rightfully belongs to the depositors and no one else.

If I were Neteller and lost my mechansims (EFTs/Wires/Debit Cards, etc) for transmitting withdrawals to the US then at the very least I would enable US residents to continue to make purchases from Neteller merchants outside the US. I would also allow US residents to make withdrawals at locations outside the US. That, in my mind, would be the ONLY way I would retain any credibility with my non US customers.

Honorable people always do the right thing when they owe money. They pay. When they can’t pay they fess up and tell the truth. Dishonorable people do just the opposite. They don’t pay unless forced to. When they can’t pay they lie about it. Never forget that.


-jp

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[Muddy]

They assured me people could change countries. I dont have enough money to go through the hassle. Exactly. I'm at least going to satisfy their residency requirements and see what happens.

They probably lied about that too.

 

[wolfie_cr]

Muddy

you are probably right on whats 'honorable' unfortunately (and I agree it sucks) this has little to do with honor and most to do with business/lawyers/shareholders. As a public company Neteller's obligation is ultimately to preserve the $ of the shareholders while also covering their behind against lawsuits.

 

[Actionbrett]

Anyone talk to Van Wilson in the past 5 days? Its funny, every time he called me (5-6 times) he blocked his phone number, intentional or unitentional i dont know. He was suppose to have my funds out for me on Thursday/Friday of last week but never called or emailed back since this thread started.

 

[dave2007]

Van Wilson is out of business. US residents can no longer send funds from neteller to his non-gaming merchant.

 

[Actionbrett]

You talked to him about that or are you assumeing that because of this thread that states you cant send money to a non gambling merchant?

 

[dave2007]

I have not talked to him since early last week. There is no way he can help you now that US residents can't send funds to non-gaming merchants. Probably why he has not called me since before March 7th.

 

[Actionbrett]

I got an email from babkgb and they said they are working on netteller and blamed the declines on something else. My contact with a person who use to work with neteller, who talks everyday to a person who still works for them said non gaming merchants are still on for US clients.

Tommorrow when im at work ill post the email message.