Nine killed at South Carolina church

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Wish we could have arms in the UK. Wish we could defend ourselves, our homes, but we can't.



People who imagine that widespread gun ownership would turn quiet English towns into Dodge City tend to ignore the fact that guns in the hands of responsible people are a deterrent that is most unlikely to be used but which alters the behaviour of criminals.


One astonishing statistic shows just what a deterrent they can be. In Britain, roughly half of all burglaries take place while the householder is at home. In the United States, where the home-owner is likely to be armed, only one burglary in eight happens when there is someone at home. And in some states, which openly license residents to use deadly force against intruders, burglary is virtually unknown.


American law, based on English law, also takes the view that a man is entitled to defend himself in his own home. The principle of 'defence of habitation' gives the besieged citizen far more freedom to deal with an intruder than the vague and uncertain English requirement that only ' reasonable force' should be used.


What seems reasonable in the small hours, in the dark, in the midst of a fear-soaked struggle, may not seem reasonable in the calm of a courtroom or in the offices of the Crown Prosecution Service, where the gravest danger is a shortage of digestive biscuits.


The main arguments for gun control do not, in fact, make sense. The mass hysteria about guns which followed the Dunblane school massacre made even less sense. It is quite clear that Thomas Hamilton, who murdered a teacher and 16 little children there in March 1996, should not have been allowed to own guns but cunningly exploited his 'human rights' to prevent the authorities acting against him.


After a long and careful investigation, the Cullen Report specifically did not recommend a general ban on handguns. There was no case for it. Yet that was what the politicians chose to do.


In recent years, chief constables and Home Secretaries have sought to limit gun ownership as never before. Most of these changes have happened since the Sixties, when liberal and politically correct ideas first infected the Home Office and the police. Much of the change has happened without debate and legislation.


The first proper Firearms Act of 1920 said that the police must issue firearms certificates on request, unless there was a good reason not to, and it assumed that people living in remote places who wanted a gun for self-defence would be permitted to keep one. Now, thanks to private, executive decisions by civil servants and police chiefs, that reasonable right has disappeared.


Yet if this policy was supposed to stem the rise in armed crime, it has completely failed. A former senior police officer, Colin Greenwood, has studied this in detail and says, devastatingly: 'There is no statistical relationship between the numbers of firearms legally held in Britain and the use of firearms in homicide or robbery.'


This is no surprise. The sort of guns used in crime - sawn-off shotguns and revolvers - are all illegally obtained in the first place and cannot be controlled by law. Hardly any legally owned weapons are ever used in crimes. Armed robbery is almost never a first offence. Those who commit it have criminal records and are legally banned from owning weapons anyway.



 

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How sick of a person do you have to be to immediately talk about your dipshit political views when 9 people haven't even been brought to the morgue?

I mean, what a disgusting, vile pile of shit guesser is.

The fact of the matter is that there is zero correlation or causation between the "ease" of getting a gun in America and violent crime rates.

Guesser is a liar and a total dipshit on the topic.


Make that on any topic
 

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Wish we could have arms in the UK. Wish we could defend ourselves, our homes, but we can't.


Monopoly

What seems to be happening is that the Government is trying to get the monopoly of the use of force of all kinds. If a homeowner or a private citizen uses a gun, or any other weapon, to defend his property or himself, the normally feeble law suddenly changes character and smites him with an iron fist.


When, in August 1999, loner Tony Martin shot dead thief Fred Barras in the darkness and confusion of a burglary at his remote home, he was energetically prosecuted and convicted of murder. Though his conviction was later reduced to manslaughter and his sentence cut, he is still in prison and Barras's accomplice, Brendan Fearon, is suing him for 'loss of earnings', an increasingly common pattern of behaviour among burglars injured during their crimes.


Mr Martin's action was clumsy and rash but understandable and reasonable in the circumstances. But the same could be said of some police officers, who mistakenly shoot suspects in the heat and confusion of the moment. However, while 25 police officers have killed suspects in the past decade, only two have been prosecuted.


One was PC Christopher Sherwood, who in 1998 shot dead a naked and unarmed James Ashley in Hastings. PC Sherwood was cleared of murder after the judge ruled that the officer genuinely believed he was in danger and acted in self-defence.


If only such understanding had been shown to Tony Martin, he might never have been prosecuted and would certainly now be free. So why wasn't it? It seems that the authorities fear that the English people, left to their own devices, will enforce the old conservative laws of England.


They will defend their lives and property against attack. They will assume that criminal acts are bad and that they are entitled to prevent and even punish them.


But the laws of England have been kidnapped and disembowelled by Leftwing liberals. The new code seeks to manage and understand and rehabilitate 'offenders'. It thinks there are excuses for crime. And it disapproves of those who cling to the old rules.
Once, police and courts and people all agreed about what was right and what was wrong. In those days, the authorities were more than happy for us to defend ourselves as vigorously as we liked.


Now, while they have effectively abandoned us to the non-existent mercies of anybody who cares to break into our homes, they will punish us fiercely if we lift a finger to defend ourselves.


It is astonishing that this has been allowed to happen in a democracy. And unless governments act soon to start protecting us from crime with proper old-fashioned policing and punitive prisons, an increasingly desperate population will sooner or later start to act as Tony Martin did, in such numbers that there will not be enough courts to try them or jails to hold them. Who could benefit from that?


It is time that the liberal hijack of our criminal justice system was reversed - and reversed quickly for the sake of the peace and order of us all.

 

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Imagine comparing the leader of the free world being protected by armed pros and sickos buying guns with ease. Imagine that's how dumb your thought process is.

Imagine explaining to all of us why it makes sense for the police and government to be the only ones who should be allowed to have guns.

Lets suppose that happens and a cop loses his mind one day, going on a shooting rampage in an elementary school. What then?
 

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Imagine explaining to all of us why it makes sense for the police and government to be the only ones who should be allowed to have guns.

Lets suppose that happens and a cop loses his mind one day, going on a shooting rampage in an elementary school. What then?
I've never heard anyone say no guns for anyone except cops and government....sensible people do not advocate that but clearly we need to do something.....the frequency of these mass shootings are out of control.....
 

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Imagine explaining to all of us why it makes sense for the police and government to be the only ones who should be allowed to have guns.

Lets suppose that happens and a cop loses his mind one day, going on a shooting rampage in an elementary school. What then?

And in the last 100 years, how often has this happened?
 

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I've never heard anyone say no guns for anyone except cops and government....sensible people do not advocate that but clearly we need to do something.....the frequency of these mass shootings are out of control.....

This is how I feel on the topic and I'm a conservative.

I don't know how to solve the issue but there is a problem in America and we just keep ignoring the problem. When will we ever address the issue? Again, I don't get worked up over this issue and I don't have an answer.
 

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We may have higher gun crime in Mexico, but it's all DRUG RELATED !!! You will never see mass shootings because of XYZ beliefs or just because.
 

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"Our Low Information President wants to know why these sorts of mass shootings never happen in other advanced Western democracies, many of which have adopted sensible, pragmatic Total Gun Bans, such as England, Australia, Canada, France,Belgium, Germany, France, Denmark, France, and even Denmark."

What an idiot Obama is.

140612174254-lead-intv-fox-mass-shooting-stats-00004106-horizontal-gallery.jpg
 

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I've never heard anyone say no guns for anyone except cops and government....sensible people do not advocate that but clearly we need to do something.....the frequency of these mass shootings are out of control.....

Keep reading these forums, you'll find that sentiment.


Another thing I find interesting is nobody from the black community seemed to care all that much when James Holmes went on his own rampage a few years ago. Or when people in Chicago knock each other off every single weekend. But suddenly, mass shootings matter today. Taken to its logical conclusion, it's safe to say they don't care unless it affects them directly. Isn't that exactly the attitude they accuse White America of having towards them?

If you've got a suggestion for how to end this, I'm all ears. I can't think of any fool-proof solution...other than perhaps this:


Killer Mike
@KillerMikeGTO


What happened in Charleston is an act of terror committed by a terrorist. Simple & plain. I wish those folks in that church had been armed
5:08 AM - 18 Jun 2015
 
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(Maybe the critical issue here isn't about guns, but it's about drugs. )

Charleston Shooter Was on Drug Linked to Violent Outbursts

Dylann Storm Roof was taking habit-forming drug suboxone





by Paul Joseph Watson | June 18, 2015





Charleston shooter Dylann Storm Roof was reportedly taking a drug that has been linked with sudden outbursts of violence, fitting the pattern of innumerable other mass shooters who were on or had recently come off pharmaceutical drugs linked to aggression.
According to a CBS News report, earlier this year when cops searched Roof after he was acting suspiciously inside a Bath and Body Works store, they found “orange strips” that Roof told officers was suboxone, a narcotic that is used to treat opiate addiction.​
Suboxone is a habit-forming drug that has been connected with sudden outbursts of aggression.​
A user on the MD Junction website relates how her husband “became violent, smashing things and threatening me,” after just a few days of coming off suboxone. Another poster on the Drugs.com website tells the story of how his personality completely changed as a result of taking suboxone. The individual relates how he became “nasty” and “violent” just weeks into taking the drug, adding that he would “snap” and be mean to people for no reason. Another poster reveals how his son-in-law “completely changed on suboxone,” and that the drug sent him into “self-destruct mode.” A user named ‘Jhalloway’ also tells the story of how her husband’s addiction to suboxone was “ruining our life.” A poster on a separate forum writes about how he became “horribly aggressive” towards his partner after taking 8mg of suboxone.
A website devoted to horror stories about the drug called SubSux.com also features a post by a woman whose husband obtained a gun and began violently beating his 15-year-old son after taking suboxone.
According to a Courier-Journal report, suboxone “is increasingly being abused, sold on the streets and inappropriately prescribed” by doctors. For some users, it is even more addictive than the drugs it’s supposed to help them quit. As we previously highlighted, virtually every major mass shooter was taking some form of SSRI or other pharmaceutical drug at the time of their attack, including Columbine killer Eric Harris, ‘Batman’ shooter James Holmes and Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza. As the website SSRI Stories profusely documents, there are literally hundreds of examples of mass shootings, murders and other violent episodes that have been committed by individuals on psychiatric drugs over the past three decades. Pharmaceutical giants who produce drugs like Zoloft, Prozac and Paxil spend around $2.4 billion dollars a year on direct-to-consumer television advertising every year. By running negative stories about prescription drugs, networks risk losing tens of millions of dollars in ad revenue, which is undoubtedly one of the primary reasons why the connection is habitually downplayed or ignored entirely.
 

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Wish we could have arms in the UK. Wish we could defend ourselves, our homes, but we can't.


Criminals feel safer and more powerful when they know they are not likely to face any armed resistance.


That was certainly the view of Sammy 'The Bull' Gravano, an American Mafia turncoat who told Vanity Fair in 1999: 'Gun control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I'm a bad guy, I'm always going to have a gun.'


His view has been backed up by American author John Lott, who found that many types of crime fell sharply in districts where law-abiding citizens were allowed to carry concealed weapons.


This was especially helpful to women, because the chance that they might have a gun in their handbags transformed them from being easy victims to tough propositions.



In 1920 Prohibition turned the Mob from street criminals into a billion dollar empire.
 

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Zit: I agree that drugs are in issue....but a common theme in these mass killings are prescription meds and guns.....for some reason the right always points to the meds...but never the guns. They both need to be looked at.
 

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If you think guns are the problem, you're not paying attention. Liberals think guns are the problem.

And again,
we have a culture where boys who want to play "war" or be naturally active are demonized as "hyper" and put on Ritalin or some other medication. Wouldn't any thoughtful person wonder what the long term effect of putting a 12 year old on a daily medication for say 7 years, is? Does anyone realize that with a lot of these medications the medical community knows they work, but can't tell you how? [Additionally in some instances we have no idea if medications work at all]

And of course some of the other cultural problems we have are a tendency toward reclusiveness, video games, and the trivialization of death, not to mention an explosion in single motherhood, a dumbing down of the educational system, and the gravitation toward the idea that "trying hard" is more important than actual success.

Wouldn't you love to see a Venn Diagram of these public shootings that had "on prescription medication" "single mom" and "introvert ?

Given the state of America today, I'm actually shocked this isn't happening more.

PS: T
he number of firearms in circulation has gone up exponentially in the last 20 years (and the issuance of concealed carry permits has gone up 500%) and yet the violent crime rate has declined. Rather sharply.

Those are facts. So if your response to a mass shooting, one mind you, where you have no clue what the motive and the weapon used, is to call for more gun laws, you're frankly, dumb. There is no other way to say it.
 

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(Maybe the critical issue here isn't about guns, but it's about drugs. )

Charleston Shooter Was on Drug Linked to Violent Outbursts

Dylann Storm Roof was taking habit-forming drug suboxone

Agreed. These mass shootings never happened before these dangerous mind altering drugs.

The left is so stupid it hurts.
 

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All smiles: Dylann Roof appeared to smile as he was hauled away from the Shelby Police Department in North Carolina on Thursday







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Glares: He looked intensely at the camera as he was escorted from the police station just a few hours after his arrest







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Intense: The 21-year-old was captured this morning after fleeing from the South Carolina church where he shot nine dead







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Tied up: The Columbia man allegedly joined the churchgoers for as long as an hour before he gunned them down






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Led away: Roof appeared to smile again as he was taken away from the police department as members of the media swarmed nearby






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Heading back south: Roof has waived extradition in North Carolina and has been cleared to return to South Carolina






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Locked up: Roof, pictured looking down in the police car, had spoken about 'starting a civil war' for months, his roommate said



.
 

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I think liberals are the problem.

Heh.

I sincerely hope I'm not alive when the feminists and beta males join together and ban football. This country is going to be over-run by the crazy muzzies so quickly given how pussy we are raising the younger generations.
 

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